Limerick Northern Distributor Road Plan

mart 23

When are the final plans for the LNDR expected to be published. ?

phog

zulutango wrote: »

There's plenty of people going from the north side of the city to the south and west side who could use the tunnel but don't.

Which is a different discussion altogether than from what I asked McLove.

I could be one of those though, I live on the north side of the city and sometimes (traffic dependent) it's so much easier for me to drive in over the Shannon Bridge to head out the Dock Road and avoid the tunnel. However, I believe if we had the NDR it would directly connect the tunnel to more drivers.

phog

Milan Elegant Cigar wrote: »

Because not everyone in Castletroy wants to go to Coonagh. Some people want to go to Corbally, Ardnacrusha, Clonlara etc

+1


You also get some people talking about traffic from Corbally as if it all starts in Corbally and ends in Dooradoyle/Raheen.

johnnyryan89

phog wrote: »

Which is a different discussion altogether than from what I asked McLove.

I could be one of those though, I live on the north side of the city and sometimes (traffic dependent) it's so much easier for me to drive in over the Shannon Bridge to head out the Dock Road and avoid the tunnel. However, I believe if we had the NDR it would directly connect the tunnel to more drivers.

Only time to avoid this route is during morning rush hour when the school run is happening. I'll always use this route when going to Raheen side of the city during weekdays and between 3pm and 5pm will avoid Clancy Strand as the lights on the bridge are a nightmare so cut up through Farranshone onto Shelbourne Road. If you live on the north side (King Islands, Thomondgate, Kileely etc) then there's no point using the tunnel when travelling to Southside.

kilburn

pigtown wrote: »

Kilburn you keep saying that Limerick isn't a big city and you're sure the new road won't be gridlocked eventually. Why are you so sure? Do you know of any other city whose new roads didn't lead to heavier traffic?

You are twisting my words.

What is the traffic volume capacity of the new road.

You cant have it every way you either want the city pedestrianized and public transport infrastructure or you dont.

If you want those you need the new road if you dont want those we can keep the status quo and not build it.

Fact remains that there is a serious traffic issue on the north side of the city and getting more cars into the tunnel is not the answer. The roads are not wide enough for bus or cycle lanes, its clear the new road is needed.

pigtown

kilburn wrote: »

You are twisting my words.

What is the traffic volume capacity of the new road.

You cant have it every way you either want the city pedestrianized and public transport infrastructure or you dont.

If you want those you need the new road if you dont want those we can keep the status quo and not build it.

Fact remains that there is a serious traffic issue on the north side of the city and getting more cars into the tunnel is not the answer. The roads are not wide enough for bus or cycle lanes, its clear the new road is needed.

I don't agree that the only way to facilitate increased pedestrianisation and better public transport is this road.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dismissing traffic levels in the Corbally area but there's absolutely no doubt whatsoever that should this road get the go ahead then it'll be a race to build new retail parks, low-density housing estates, industrial estates, and car showrooms. This is my issue.

As far as I know no alternative to this road has been seriously considered. Was there ever a study on exactly what would be needed to entice people from their cars and on to public transport? Was there even an alternative to this type of road looked at?

Would an upgraded Childer's Rd along with a new link from the Dublin Rd at the Travelodge to the R463 provide sufficient extra capacity?

It's a fact that the type of development that we've seen in Ireland til now- low density, car centric, sprawl- has led to many of the problems the country sees today. This road is just a continuation of this type of development. I'm not saying we need to ban the car but we have to make it easier for people to be able to get by without one.

zulutango

kilburn wrote: »

The roads are not wide enough for bus or cycle lanes, its clear the new road is needed.

How does building a new road in a different place make the existing roads wide enough for bus and bike lanes?

jbkenn

I see Bob the Builder has commenced work on the next phase of the Moyross Motorway opposite the Country Club, somebody is going to lose their grazing for their piebalds.

kilburn

zulutango wrote: »

How does building a new road in a different place make the existing roads wide enough for bus and bike lanes?

Again twisting words and not reading things properly

When the new road is built we wont need all the current lanes of traffic in the city so some can be given over to cycle Bus lanes etc.

E.G part of Dock Road, Shannon Bridge, Henry Street, O'Connell Street, William Street to name a few

Vanquished

kilburn wrote: »

Again twisting words and not reading things properly

When the new road is built we wont need all the current lanes of traffic in the city so some can be given over to cycle Bus lanes etc.

E.G part of Dock Road, Shannon Bridge, Henry Street, O'Connell Street, William Street to name a few

In the same way that we were told that the Limerick tunnel was a pre-requisite to the part pedestrianisation of O'Connell Street and that it was full steam ahead once it was in place? Well that worked out well didn't it? It's now being stated that a northern distributor road is needed before this can happen. Where does it end? Any attempt to reduce road capacity, no matter how insignificant is met with wild hysteria and then the authorities capitulate.

kilburn

Totally agree with you to be fair it will never end until we get our monorail...................

zulutango

kilburn wrote: »

Again twisting words and not reading things properly

When the new road is built we wont need all the current lanes of traffic in the city so some can be given over to cycle Bus lanes etc.

E.G part of Dock Road, Shannon Bridge, Henry Street, O'Connell Street, William Street to name a few

Most of the traffic on the north side could use the tunnel right now, but chooses not to because the easiest way is through town or via the Shannon Bridge. Traffic will always choose the easiest route. If the LNDR is built, and I very much doubt that it will be, traffic would still choose the easiest route. We have to make the tunnel the easiest route and that means reducing road capacity near the centre and using the extra space to facilitate pedestrians and cyclists.

kilburn

Traffic on the northside is not the only issue though how can someone from Corbally & SE Clare use the tunnel without sitting in traffic for an hour to get to it?

Northern ring road will facilitate these drivers for example you go onto the ring road near parteen hitting to Kerry and via the new road to the tunnel some wont use it but some will.

You obviously do not understand the issues on the Corbally & SE Clare areas regarding traffic, you do realise there are hundreds of people in these areas who have no choice but to go this way to get to Shannon etc

zulutango

kilburn wrote:

You obviously do not understand the issues on the Corbally & SE Clare areas regarding traffic, you do realise there are hundreds of people in these areas who have no choice but to go this way to get to Shannon etc

Hundreds of people, eh? With the road priced at 140 million euro I don't think that's justifiable. I know the road well, by the way. I drive on it frequently.

kilburn

zulutango wrote: »

Hundreds of people, eh? With the road priced at 140 million euro I don't think that's justifiable. I know the road well, by the way. I drive on it frequently.

Obviously i have never stopped everyone and counted them it could be thousands.

If you drive it frequently it must be off peak as you see no issue.

phog

zulutango wrote: »

Hundreds of people, eh? With the road priced at 140 million euro I don't think that's justifiable. I know the road well, by the way. I drive on it frequently.

How frequently?

zulutango

A few times per week.

kilburn

zulutango wrote: »

A few times per week.

Obviously not at rush hour

phog

zulutango wrote: »

Most of the traffic on the north side could use the tunnel right now, but chooses not to because the easiest way is through town or via the Shannon Bridge. Traffic will always choose the easiest route. If the LNDR is built, and I very much doubt that it will be, traffic would still choose the easiest route. We have to make the tunnel the easiest route and that means reducing road capacity near the centre and using the extra space to facilitate pedestrians and cyclists.

If the NDR is not built and you remove/reduce vehicular access to the city then the traffic from East Clare will be forced onto roads that are not suitable for the volumes that will be using them.

marno21

To me the NDR seems to be rather pointless unless it's combined with an effective junction strategy, especially where it meets the M7. What's the point of a €140m dual carriageway if it's just connected to an already jammed Mackey Roundabout?

Berty

marno21 wrote: »

To me the NDR seems to be rather pointless unless it's combined with an effective junction strategy, especially where it meets the M7. What's the point of a €140m dual carriageway if it's just connected to an already jammed Mackey Roundabout?

These roads are normally considered to be Inner relief roads. In a smaller example you could consider Mitchelstown to be similar. It has the M8 nearby and the relief road moves around the town relieving it out traffic quite a lot.

marno21

Berty wrote: »

These roads are normally considered to be Inner relief roads. In a smaller example you could consider Mitchelstown to be similar. It has the M8 nearby and the relief road moves around the town relieving it out traffic quite a lot.

Yes, but the Mitchelstown relief road was constructed before the M8 Mitchelstown-Fermoy scheme to provide temporary relief to the town and long term relief for N73 traffic. There are no major employment zones along the route apart from the Dairygold/Ornua plant at the N73 roundabout, which isn't a massive traffic generator anyway. It's often faster to go through the town apart from at peak times when going from the Firgrove to the M8 interchange, and that's before you take into account that Mitchelstown has a freeflowing motorway bypass, and is quite small in itself

The NDR is totally different and would be used as a development vehicle unlike the Mitchelstown bypass.

Glenomra

And I am still waiting for any poster to tell me how the planners hope to get permission to build the largest river crossing in Ireland across one of the biggest floodplains in the country, extending from Shravokee in Clare to Lisnagry in Limerick. Inevitably, there will be objections, including legal, on a multitude of environmental grounds. I am genuinely wondering how they hope to get planning permission. Could somebody please enlighten me.

pigtown

It's a long by time since I read the documents but I remember the drainage plan to be very detailed and comprehensive so presumably flooding won't be an issue. I'm not sure about the wildlife impact though

kilburn

From my experience of dealing with council they probably have not thought that far ahead.

Glenomra

they have no drainage plans to-date. Only aspirations to implement same. I have little doubt that they can implement an 'Engineering Solution' with the spending of millions of euro but I fail to see how this distributor could pass any justification test considering the latest cost projecture is over 200 million euro.

Mc Love

Glenomra wrote: »

And I am still waiting for any poster to tell me how the planners hope to get permission to build the largest river crossing in Ireland across one of the biggest floodplains in the country, extending from Shravokee in Clare to Lisnagry in Limerick. Inevitably, there will be objections, including legal, on a multitude of environmental grounds. I am genuinely wondering how they hope to get planning permission. Could somebody please enlighten me.

Just wait until Fianna Fail to get back into power and it will be built, loads of brown envelopes I'd imagine

zulutango

I just can't see it being built. If it's declared unsustainable development, which it clearly is, then An Bord Pleanála will throw it in the bin. Post 2020 there will be fines rolling in from the EU and there's a clear connection between infrastructure development like this and those fines. It'll be scrapped after stumbling a few times. Limerick or Clare Councils haven't got the memo yet though so they'll keep ploughing resources into it.

kilburn

In your opinion its unsustainable not everyone's this road or another variant of it will be built

Summerrose75

I attended numerous public meetings with the OPW, with regard to flood relief schemes in the lisnagry/annacotty area and when the LNDR is mentioned repersentives honestly have never heard of the road or plans. I do appreciate that planning has to be obtained but in the length of time it will take for flood relief schemes to be implemented, I've no doubt the LNDR,will be underway.They will pour hundreds of thousands of concrete into this flood plain,the road will not flood,but to hell with the surrounding community, they'll worry about that when it happens,or will they?