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Limerick Northern Distributor Road Plan

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    #1022
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    If you have to cycle short distances then rain just isn't an issue. You can wait for it to pass or you can dress for it.

    It becomes a bigger issue for cyclists when they have to travel a few km's or more. You're far more likely to have to cycle in rain given the long distances and longer travel time. It's another reason why we should resist suburban development. It's anti cycling by its nature, as well as being anti public transport.


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    #1023
    mitresize5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭mitresize5


    zulutango wrote: »
    I've no doubt there's a better solution than spending a colossal amount of money on a ring road, not including the far greater long term costs. Indeed, the problem has not even been professionally assessed, yet we are ploughing on with the solution. A particularly bad one.


    Seen as in you are in no doubt, using the Ardnacrusha example above, why dont you give us some options how to make cycling to the city practical and safe for workers and school pupils.


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    #1024
    mitresize5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭mitresize5


    zulutango wrote: »
    If you have to cycle short distances then rain just isn't an issue. You can wait for it to pass or you can dress for it.


    Christ on a bike, pun intended, how do you think that will work with the employers of Ireland.


    'Sorry gaffer, wont be in til 10, rains a bit heavy'



    Cloud cuckoo land stuff


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    #1025
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    Buy rain gear. It works well. It's crazy that somebody would label the suggestion that a lot more people could be cycling to and from work and school, just as they did for generations, as cloud cuckoo land stuff. There's fairly solid precedent for this, you know? People are doing it all over the world, in rainy countries too.


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    #1026
    mitresize5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭mitresize5


    I was referring to your suggestion that you wait for the rain to pass, which I'm pretty sure you understood.

    Care to provide the solution for cycling from Ardnacrusha/Parteen/Clonlara to the city is a safe manner for adults and kids.


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    #1027
    Mc Love
    Registered Users Posts: 14,015 ✭✭✭✭Mc Love


    Just think that if most people that live close to the city cycled it would allow people living outside the city to travel without traffic to the city. Put all that traffic back onto the road and you have gridlock for all the people that live outside the city. Its fairly simple.


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    #1028
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    mitresize5 wrote:
    Seen as in you are in no doubt, using the Ardnacrusha example above, why dont you give us some options how to make cycling to the city practical and safe for workers and school pupils.

    A pedestrian / cycling bridge across from Westbury to the path by the Irish Estates would link a large population onto existing safe pedestrian / cycling infrastructure and they'd have they option of going all the way to the city without meeting any traffic, except briefly at the Park Road. Alternatively, widen the existing bridge to put in safe infra for pedestrians and cyclists on it.


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    #1029
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    mitresize5 wrote:
    I was referring to your suggestion that you wait for the rain to pass, which I'm pretty sure you understood.

    Wait a few minutes if you've got it. This is what I do. If it's heavy or persistent rain, throw on the rain gear. It's really no big deal. I'm living proof that it can be done, as is McLove, and thousands of others. Why don't you give it a go and see for yourself?


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    #1030
    mitresize5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭mitresize5


    zulutango wrote: »
    A pedestrian / cycling bridge across from Westbury to the path by the Irish Estates would link a large population onto existing safe pedestrian / cycling infrastructure and they'd have they option of going all the way to the city without meeting any traffic, except briefly at the Park Road. Alternatively, widen the existing bridge to put in safe infra for pedestrians and cyclists on it.


    So two new bridges, one over the head race and one in Westbury.



    The one at Westbury taking the cyclist down through Shannon fields and then along the canal bank to deposit them at one of the busiest intersections in the city while taking them miles out of their way to get there.



    and no mention of how a cyclist gets safely from the new bridge over the head race to Westbury.


    and as for widening bridges, shur thats so handy civil engineers the world over a doing it never.



    I'm out of this conversation, thank fully the road will be build, hopefully within the next decade and the city will have a proper roads infrastructure


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    #1031
    Vanquished
    Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Vanquished


    mitresize5 wrote: »
    So two new bridges, one over the head race and one in Westbury.



    The one at Westbury taking the cyclist down through Shannon fields and then along the canal bank to deposit them at one of the busiest intersections in the city while taking them miles out of their way to get there.



    and no mention of how a cyclist gets safely from the new bridge over the head race to Westbury.


    and as for widening bridges, shur thats so handy civil engineers the world over a doing it never.



    I'm out of this conversation, thank fully the road will be build, hopefully within the next decade and the city will have a proper roads infrastructure

    Sounds like you didn't fancy the fact that a solution was being proposed. You do understand that a recently upgraded cycle track runs from the Shannon fields in as far as Locke Quay?

    To suggest that Limerick doesn't have a 'proper roads infrastructure' is absolutely comical. For a small city of just about 100,000 people it has an exceptionally well developed road network. In case you've forgotten, €660 million was spent on 10kms of dual carriageway and a river tunnel less than 10 years ago.


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    #1032
    geotrig
    Registered Users Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭geotrig


    zulutango wrote: »
    A pedestrian / cycling bridge across from Westbury to the path by the Irish Estates would link a large population onto existing safe pedestrian / cycling infrastructure and they'd have they option of going all the way to the city without meeting any traffic, except briefly at the Park Road. Alternatively, widen the existing bridge to put in safe infra for pedestrians and cyclists on it.
    This is something I suggested ages ago and was more like using the boardwalk along the river as an example. The
    Only issue is who funds it? Corbally and parteen traffic need hgvs and heavy vehicles removed Also I gotta say I'm not fond of cycling through corbally and wouldn't be at all comfortable with my kids or most kids cycling there as is.
    I do agree though the rain is not an issue walking or cycling once you have a good coat or wet gear


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    #1033
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,077 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Vanquished wrote: »
    Sounds like you didn't fancy the fact that a solution was being proposed. You do understand that a recently upgraded cycle track runs from the Shannon fields in as far as Locke Quay?

    To suggest that Limerick doesn't have a 'proper roads infrastructure' is absolutely comical. For a small city of just about 100,000 people it has an exceptionally well developed road network. In case you've forgotten, €660 million was spent on 10kms of dual carriageway and a river tunnel less than 10 years ago.

    In all fairness that road is of zero use to the areas they're talking about. Almost why they want a Northern route around the city.


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    #1034
    geotrig
    Registered Users Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭geotrig


    Vanquished wrote: »
    Sounds like you didn't fancy the fact that a solution was being proposed. You do understand that a recently upgraded cycle track runs from the Shannon fields in as far as Locke Quay?

    To suggest that Limerick doesn't have a 'proper roads infrastructure' is absolutely comical. For a small city of just about 100,000 people it has an exceptionally well developed road network. In case you've forgotten, €660 million was spent on 10kms of dual carriageway and a river tunnel less than 10 years ago.

    I'm fairly sure business has commented and suggested for years that most of Ireland is lacking in infrastructure? That road / tunnel needed to be built 20 years before it was.


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    #1035
    Vanquished
    Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Vanquished


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    In all fairness that road is of zero use to the areas they're talking about. Almost why they want a Northern route around the city.

    The point stands that labelling a city with a high quality, high capacity 20km southern ring road as being without 'proper infrastructure' is absolutely ludicrous!


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    #1036
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,077 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Vanquished wrote: »
    The point stands that labelling a city with a high quality, high capacity 20km southern ring road as being without 'proper infrastructure' is absolutely ludicrous!

    It has a southern ring road. But there's no way to travel around the North of the city, there aren't enough bus lanes or buses and the cycling infracture is practically non existent. Limerick still has a huge infrastructure deficit.


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    #1037
    Vanquished
    Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Vanquished


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    It has a southern ring road. But there's no way to travel around the North of the city, there aren't enough bus lanes or buses and the cycling infracture is practically non existent. Limerick still has a huge infrastructure deficit.

    It goes without saying that there is a massive dearth of public transport, cycling and pedestrian infrastructure in Limerick. It's a direct result of a pathetic and embarrassing lack of leadership and investment by the local authority. This is exactly why we need to stop planning roads to nowhere like the NDR and start providing the kind of infrastructure that would actually benefit the city.


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    #1038
    mdmix
    Registered Users Posts: 608 ✭✭✭mdmix


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    In all fairness that road is of zero use to the areas they're talking about. Almost why they want a Northern route around the city.

    I suppose we should build a new road to help everyone with ther commute then, where next, the ballyneety expressway?


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    #1039
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,077 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Vanquished wrote: »
    It goes without saying that there is a massive dearth of public transport, cycling and pedestrian infrastructure in Limerick. It's a direct result of a pathetic and embarrassing lack of leadership and investment by the local authority. This is exactly why we need to stop planning roads to nowhere like the NDR and start providing the kind of infrastructure that would actually benefit the city.

    The city needs both the PT and cycling infracture AND a Northern route around the city.


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    #1040
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    geotrig wrote:
    This is something I suggested ages ago and was more like using the boardwalk along the river as an example. The Only issue is who funds it? Corbally and parteen traffic need hgvs and heavy vehicles .

    The same people who are funding all the other public infrastructure!

    Can HGV's not use the existing road?


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    #1041
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    Cookiemunster wrote:
    The city needs both the PT and cycling infracture AND a Northern route around the city.

    If you do the PT and cycling infrastructure (of which there's currently very little), you don't need any more car infrastructure over and above what's already there.


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    #1042
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,077 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    zulutango wrote: »
    If you do the PT and cycling infrastructure (of which there's currently very little), you don't need any more car infrastructure over and above what's already there.

    In your opinion.


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    #1043
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    Cookiemunster wrote:
    In your opinion.

    It's logical though. If the people who are currently driving switch to bikes and busses, it makes no sense to build new roads for the fewer numbers who continue to drive.


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    #1044
    nim1bdeh38l2cw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭nim1bdeh38l2cw


    zulutango wrote: »
    It's logical though. If the people who are currently driving switch to bikes and busses, it makes no sense to build new roads for the fewer numbers who continue to drive.

    You're a complete lunatic, do you actually believe this nonsense, or are you a troll?


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    #1045
    yop
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 16,724 Mod ✭✭✭✭yop


    mod note: haddock's thrower banned


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    #1046
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    Agree there may be a better solution when someone brings one to the table i am happy to discuss it believe it or not.

    Fact remains Corbally Road is just to narrow.


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    #1047
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    Again as Cookie says, this is the point we need both the new road wont solve the traffic issues but will be a massive help add in increased PT if Bus Eireann are capable and cycle lanes and everyones happy !


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    #1048
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    kilburn wrote:
    Fact remains Corbally Road is just to narrow.

    I don't think it's ever been properly assessed. There's on street parking along one side of it, heading up to Deigo's, so there's space for a two way cycle lane in that.


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    #1049
    geotrig
    Registered Users Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭geotrig


    zulutango wrote: »
    The same people who are funding all the other public infrastructure!

    Can HGV's not use the existing road?

    not if you want kids cycling on it, I suggest you take time at some point and drive ,walk ,cycle out the corbally road during the day and spend some time stopped and take note of the large vehicle traffic , As I've said I've cycled it loads ,its not a comfortable place to cycle when there are trucks and buses sharing the small area of space ,there are too many narrow bottlenecks on the road.my Main concern would be kids sharing the space, believe me its not the cars that is the problem its.

    Also you suggest that cycling and bus traffic should be prioritised ! if you are forcing cyclist off down the shannon fields cycle path walkway , how is that prioritising cycling ? Its not , its putting them on a longer route, I'd also would want it to be policed more often than it is also but that's a conversation for another thread.


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    #1050
    geotrig
    Registered Users Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭geotrig


    zulutango wrote: »
    I don't think it's ever been properly assessed. There's on street parking along one side of it, heading up to Deigo's, so there's space for a two way cycle lane in that.

    there is no on street parking except for outside diego's where the road widens for a small bit the whole way out rarely has cars parked on the road ,people park on the path by scoil ide /irish estates
    The 1st picture where its circeld in red is a death trap on a bike !

    the 2nd picture is corbally road and rarely has cars parked on it ,its too narrow the few that do park on the paths also !


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    #1051
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    Yes, the Shannon Fields route is circuitous if you're going to the centre. But if going to Castletroy it would be ideal.

    I did a quick screen grab showing a potential safe cycling route from Westbury to the city centre, which might be worth considering.

    I don't think we'll solve it here and now, but the issue hasn't even been looked at properly. How much of the existing peak traffic is coming from Westbury, for example? How much is school related?

    The main point is that it is far too premature to be spending collosal sums on a ring road, which will have long term damaging consequences for Limerick, before exploring every other option. It seems that the LNDR was dreamt up by people sitting in traffic and jumping to the conclusion that the traffic numbers couldn't be reduced and the road capacity couldn't be increased and to them the obvious solution is a ring road. There isn't much science behind it.


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