Limerick Northern Distributor Road Plan

marno21

zulutango wrote: »

Here's some recent evidence of induced demand in an Irish context. 15 years after it was built the traffic volumes have increased to the point that more road capacity is needed.

This is more of an indictment of Irish junction design than anything. There are quite a lot of high capacity roads built in Ireland with low junction throughputs. The junctions can't handle peak traffic and queues spill back onto the mainline.

If you are building a road with x capacity you also need to build junctions with suitable capacity to prevent this

geotrig

I originally saw it elsewhere but this is what i got when googling now ,but all pointed to the same conclusion really , again maybe not hugely applicable to limerick per se but shows you the what affect it can have on other aspects i.e walkers ,cyclist and current public transport users.
it would be still great if free transport was introduced here !
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/estonia-is-making-public-transport-free/

which looks like it may be referencing here ...way too much too read !
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11116-016-9695-5

zulutango

You're saying this problem existed from the day the road opened? I don't believe that is the case. The article implies that this is the first call for the increased capacity.

zulutango

Thanks Geotrig. Yes, I think free public transport is a no brainer for cities. The problem is they get caught up in the funding aspect, and don't count the value to society that accrues from it.

topper75

zulutango wrote: »

Thanks Geotrig. Yes, I think free public transport is a no brainer for cities. The problem is they get caught up in the funding aspect, and don't count the value to society that accrues from it.

You get a free bus from Raheen but the Patrickswell guy pays? Salthill you are sound but Barna cough up.
Messy.

As a state, short of striking oil, we can't afford such a scheme. I don't accept your use of the term 'no brainer' in this context: there is no financial alchemy so I am afraid we are obliged by reality to be 'caught up in the funding aspect'.

zulutango

You're not taking into account the benefits of public transport and the true costs of private car transport.

topper75

zulutango wrote: »

You're not taking into account the benefits of public transport and the true costs of private car transport.

Spell it out then please where the benefits accrue from financially.

From where I stand private vehicle owners pump small fortunes into state coffers. Your proposal involves taking huge numbers of them out of the equation across our cities. No motor tax, no VRT, no fuel excise, nothing like that coming in like it used to.

On the other hand you want no fares on a state-funded transport network, buses, trains etc. Pile of money out, no money in.

Your proposal doesn't make any financial sense to me. I'm not seeing it.

what_traffic

topper75 wrote: »

Your proposal doesn't make any financial sense to me. I'm not seeing it.

You have to factor the External costs. You just added up the private individual costs.
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/glossary/external-costs/
if ya want an academic article on it
http://www.ce.utexas.edu/prof/kockelman/public_html/trb08vehicleexternalities.pdf

Mc Love

what_traffic wrote: »

You have to factor the External costs. You just added up the private individual costs.
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/glossary/external-costs/
if ya want an academic article on it
http://www.ce.utexas.edu/prof/kockelman/public_html/trb08vehicleexternalities.pdf

Dont even bother

That's America, we're hardly America, this wont have the same traffic volumes as them

topper75

Any Tesco shoppers noticing anything happening down on site of late?
I would love a quick join to the old Cratloe road opened first.

damowill

topper75 wrote: »

Any Tesco shoppers noticing anything happening down on site of late?
I would love a quick join to the old Cratloe road opened first.

still looks like a race horse track from the Coonagh side, havent been down the old cratloe road end so maybe they are work back from the side first.

Cookiemunster

Phase one, which has just finished, was to widen the road beside Tesco and build a 300m long embankment that will take the new road.

Phase two has AFAIK not been awarded yet. This is the contract that will build the road as far as Knockalisheen. At the public consultation last year it was said that this contract is due to be awarded in the spring, and will take 18 months to build.

phog

There's a lot of land fenced off between the Country Club and Watch House Cross. I think they might be upgrading the bridge over the railway track near Moyross

topper75

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Phase one, which has just finished, was to widen the road beside Tesco and build a 300m long embankment that will take the new road.

Phase two has AFAIK not been awarded yet. This is the contract that will build the road as far as Knockalisheen. At the public consultation last year it was said that this contract is due to be awarded in the spring, and will take 18 months to build.

Thanks Cookie. I am kind of disappointed by that update. I thought the road proper might be under way by now.

When you say 300m embankment - the distance between the side of Tesco and the old Cratloe road alone is some 800m. Is it that some section of that stretch is floodprone or particularly low?

Cookiemunster

topper75 wrote: »

Thanks Cookie. I am kind of disappointed by that update. I thought the road proper might be under way by now.

When you say 300m embankment - the distance between the side of Tesco and the old Cratloe road alone is some 800m. Is it that some section of that stretch is floodprone or particularly low?

I can't answer that I'm afraid. I just remember the dates they told me from the public meeting.

OfTheMarsWongs

‘Transport Minister Shane Ross has this Friday announced funding of €26.2m for vehicular infrastructure in Limerick, including €7.5m for the Coonagh to Knockalisheen northern distributor road.’


https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/361787/transport-minister-shane-ross-confirms-26-2m-for-limerick-roads.html

Mc Love

Looks like we dont need a Northern Distributor Road after all

https://twitter.com/NiallQuinnLK73/status/1098175004599037962?s=20

stefanovich

Mc Love wrote: »

Looks like we dont need a Northern Distributor Road after all

https://twitter.com/NiallQuinnLK73/status/1098175004599037962?s=20

Is housing bad now or what?

kilburn

Convenient spot to take the picture from as its at westbury entrance and timing not ideal either

Wonder will he take some photos tonight between 5:30 and 6:30 from Grove island side.

stefanovich

I bet your man lives in Ferndale and is pissy about the road.

Glenomra

kilburn wrote: »

Convenient spot to take the picture from as its at westbury entrance and timing not ideal either

Wonder will he take some photos tonight between 5:30 and 6:30 from Grove island side.

why is the timing not ideal. Surely 8.30 am is peak traffic time. A most interesting photograph. No government is going to spend 250 million euro to 'alleviate' that traffic. Planners should explore more achievable solutions.

johnnyryan89

kilburn wrote: »

Convenient spot to take the picture from as its at westbury entrance and timing not ideal either

Wonder will he take some photos tonight between 5:30 and 6:30 from Grove island side.

That first picture is Scoil Ide school

Glenomra

That is the busiest spot on school mornings!

Glenomra

they will make for interesting viewing if the road goes to Bord pleanala

BobMc

Yeah and on a School day from the point in the picture it can be 30mins or more from that point to town

mdmix

BobMc wrote: »

Yeah and on a School day from the point in the picture it can be 30mins or more from that point to town

if thats true it would be cheaper and easier to move the school than to build the road!

geotrig

Glenomra wrote: »

they will make for interesting viewing if the road goes to Bord pleanala

Why? just because its not busy for one picture doesn't mean a road is not busy :rolleyes:

Glenomra

Well if there is no car in view at 8.30 in the morning how will they justify spending over 250 million on an alternative road on the premise that traffic congestion demands it. the reality is that this road is 'pie in the sky' . The possibility of building a four land dual carriageway across a floodplain is delusional imo. with the over-run on the children's hospital etc it is most unlikely that the government will fund this venture. Maybe you believe differently. Time will tell!!!!!!!!!!

Mc Love

Plus its like this in the summer too! For nearly four months maybe of the year, there's no traffic on the road. Different story with SRR and N20

kilburn

I must be hallucinating every morning and evening so with the traffic volumes i am stuck in