Limerick Northern Distributor Road Plan

Glenomra

Mc Love wrote: »

Plus its like this in the summer too! For nearly four months maybe of the year, there's no traffic on the road. Different story with SRR and N20

exactly like this and I travel the road at this time each morning. School Holidays, its a pleasure, Schools open, a different story.

geotrig

But the LNDR isnt just about corbally !:rolleyes: And the exact same can be said of most if not all routes when schools are off !

damowill

kilburn wrote: »

I must be hallucinating every morning and evening so with the traffic volumes i am stuck in

nobody is denying the traffic is bad but when the schools are off there are no such problems. All week i'm driving out to Castletroy in speedy time. A colleague drove from Westbury to same, in 10mins this morning! This could be 40-50mins next week!

Time for school buses, cycle lanes and safer crossings to encourage different modes of travel for our kids!! We'd save ourselves a lot of money!!

kilburn

All for these but there is no space for any of these on corbally road

Maybe a good way to proceed is build Coonagh to Parteen and review the rest of the road.

zulutango

The LNDR has turned up in the Draft Southern Regional Spatial & Economic Strategy (RSES). This is supposed to be the regional interpretation of the National Planning Framework (Ireland 2040), which was published by the government last year. It actually flies in the face of what the NPF is about as it is a blueprint for further urban sprawl in Limerick, and that of course will be a disaster for us. If we want to have the chronic congestion problems that Galway has at the moment, and an even worse bus service than we currently have, then this is the recipe for it. Of course it champions the Northern Distributor Road as 'key strategic infrastructure' without providing any support for the claim. Go to page 250 of the document to read about the Limerick-Shannon plan.

The deadline for submissions is 8 March at 5pm and you can make them online here - https://www.southernassembly.ie/regional-planning/public-consultation-on-the-issues-paper-for-the-regional-spatial-and-econom

damowill

Interesting to see the South Clare Economic Strategic Development Zone (SDZ) in this document. or perhaps worrying. A South Clare SDZ would put a huge strain on traffic into and out of Limerick. While the LNDR is supposed to relieve traffic from the city centre & Plassey, the SDZ will be counter intuitive surely as this will lead to an increase in traffic?

Glenomra

the site of the proposed river crossing, Srawickeen to Lisnagry, again totally flooded - approximately a mile and a half length of floods. It will be some task to get planning permission to build the road there - the environmentalists will have afield day. Mad Proposal imo considering the alternative crossing points the planners had. Did they not know it was a floodplain?????????

zulutango

Glenomra wrote: »

the site of the proposed river crossing, Srawickeen to Lisnagry, again totally flooded - approximately a mile and a half length of floods. It will be some task to get planning permission to build the road there - the environmentalists will have afield day. Mad Proposal imo considering the alternative crossing points the planners had. Did they not know it was a floodplain?????????

Take photos. Get a drone up there?

Glenomra

Good thinking but I am afraid Zultango, that I getting a drone up is a step too far. Climbing a nearby tree is as high as I will be able to go. However, the Lisnagry Action group usually document the flooding on their excellent site.

Glenomra

https://www.facebook.com/LimerickEastActionGroup/

topper75

Glenomra wrote: »

the site of the proposed river crossing, Srawickeen to Lisnagry, again totally flooded - approximately a mile and a half length of floods. It will be some task to get planning permission to build the road there - the environmentalists will have afield day. Mad Proposal imo considering the alternative crossing points the planners had. Did they not know it was a floodplain?????????

I would assume that it will be on an embankment approaching and leaving the Mulcair/Shannon areas.

What did you make of the Condell Road when that was first proposed?
*thinks of Ennis road without any Condell and shudders*

Glenomra

Presume so, but where does the diverted water, which currently spreads out onto the floodplain, go. The Shannon after the Condell Road flows out into the estuary, here it flows down towards Limerick City, remember the flooding of St. Mary's etc. Nor is there any comparison in size between the Condell road area of floodplain and this floodplain, one of the largest on the entire River Shannon at the sensitive meeting point of the Shannon and Mulcair Rivers. The key point about this crossing is that the planners have a choice, build a river crossing across a floodplain or build a river crossing across dry ground. Doesn't sound like a difficult choice in this climate change era. By going here, imo, the planners will only delay any river crossing, as any and all plans will be opposed on environmental grounds, in Ireland and if necessary in Europe. a reasonably informed personal opinion but I might be wrong!!!!!!!!

zulutango

topper75 wrote: »

What did you make of the Condell Road when that was first proposed?
*thinks of Ennis road without any Condell and shudders*

Build more roads and you get more cars. The Condell was bumper to bumper this morning. The solution isn't to build another road to divert traffic. It's to reduce the traffic.

phog

zulutango wrote: »

Build more roads and you get more cars. The Condell was bumper to bumper this morning. The solution isn't to build another road to divert traffic. It's to reduce the traffic.

What time?

I came in that road this morning around 8.15 and I got to the traffic lights before I had to stop then traffic flowed freely enough almost right up the roundabout.

As an aside - none of the cars in front of me or behind that were in the left lane went out the dock road.

zulutango

8.30am, very slowly moving.

phog

zulutango wrote: »

8.30am, very slowly moving.

Something one would expect on an approach road to a city.

topper75

zulutango wrote: »

Build more roads and you get more cars. The Condell was bumper to bumper this morning. The solution isn't to build another road to divert traffic. It's to reduce the traffic.

Who sees a new road being built and gets inspired to incur the huge expense of a car, with huge ongoing annual shellout to run the thing?

There are more cars because there are more people, not because there are more roads.

There are more roads because there are more cars.

So the causation is more people -> cars -> roads and not roads -> cars.

Only a plague or mass economic crash will reduce traffic.

mdmix

topper75 wrote: »

Who sees a new road being built and gets inspired to incur the huge expense of a car, with huge ongoing annual shellout to run the thing?

There are more cars because there are more people, not because there are more roads.

There are more roads because there are more cars.

So the causation is more people -> cars -> roads and not roads -> cars.

Only a plague or mass economic crash will reduce traffic.

Limerick has a higher population than Galway, yet a lower level of people using public transport or other modes of transport. More roads means more people using cars as it makes it easier to travel by car.

Phileas Frog

mdmix wrote: »

Limerick has a higher population than Galway, yet a lower level of people using public transport or other modes of transport. More roads means more people using cars as it makes it easier to travel by car.

So what you're saying is that Galway has less roads than Limerick? You're aware that Galway traffic is chronic, and far far worse than Limerick ever is.

damowill

Limerick City Centre Population is very low
Not enough residential constructions projects in development in the centre
Not enough people working in the City Centre
Retail sector in City Centre is limited
Current planning guidelines are to protect city centre trade
City Centre is in decline
Public Transport in Limerick is very poor & unreliable
Cycle Networks non-existent and cycle lanes limited


So why is money being put into something like the LNDR that will have a negative impact on most of these things? Why isnt the money being put into the above projects? The CC and ABP recently rejected an expansion of Castletroy Town Centre Shopping Centre, for the very reason it would impact the growth of the City Centre (retail). If the CC want a thriving City Centre, where people work, live and shop, where we have proper transport infrastructure in and out of it, then why on earth would you build a road that will only encourage out of town residential development and exacerbate the real problems our city is facing. Is there any joined up thinking?

zulutango

phog wrote: »

Something one would expect on an approach road to a city.

Just like the Corbally road, or the Dublin road, eh? No need for the LNDR so.

what_traffic

Phileas Frog wrote: »

So what you're saying is that Galway has less roads than Limerick? You're aware that Galway traffic is chronic, and far far worse than Limerick ever is.

It does and yes that is also why more people take public transport and cycle in Galway City in comparison with Limerick City. The Galway Councils want to follow what Limerick has done by building a City Ring Road. Don't understand induced demand.

Mc Love

Walked over the bridge today at lunch time and one in ten cars were using the left hand lane

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

Walked over the bridge today at lunch time and one in ten cars were using the left hand lane

Try walking over it at rush hour.

johnnyryan89

Driving over it myself at 9am and it felt like every second and third car was heading out the dock road using the left lane.

Mc Love

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Driving over it myself at 9am and it felt like every second and third car was heading out the dock road using the left lane.

Might be worth having the council do a survey there. It would be interesting to see the results

Phileas Frog

what_traffic wrote: »

It does and yes that is also why more people take public transport and cycle in Galway City in comparison with Limerick City. The Galway Councils want to follow what Limerick has done by building a City Ring Road. Don't understand induced demand.

Well that's complete bollocks anyway

phog

zulutango wrote: »

Just like the Corbally road, or the Dublin road, eh? No need for the LNDR so.

The purpose of the LNDR is to distribute the traffic so that it doesn't have to come into the city to exit it again

Mc Love wrote: »

Might be worth having the council do a survey there. It would be interesting to see the results

I offered to do one with you but you choose to ignore it - I know our survey might achieve very little but it would correct your misconception of who uses what lanes and why

zulutango

phog wrote: »

The purpose of the LNDR is to distribute the traffic so that it doesn't have to come into the city to exit it again

Why is the traffic so bad to begin with?

phog

zulutango wrote: »

Why is the traffic so bad to begin with?

Answered already in this thread - a few times - why do we need to repeat it