Limerick Northern Distributor Road Plan

Cookiemunster

sioda wrote: »

That is one of the most non existing information articles I've ever read. What bridges where useless reporting

It's not new news and has been discussed on here previously (probably in the Limerick Improvements thread). The proposal is a bridge across the Shannon between Sarsfield and Shannon bridges, a replacement for the Sylvester O'Halloran bridge and a bridge across the Abbey linking the Opera site to Georges Quay.

keane2097

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It's not new news and has been discussed on here previously (probably in the Limerick Improvements thread). The proposal is a bridge across the Shannon between Sarsfield and Shannon bridges, a replacement for the Sylvester O'Halloran bridge and a bridge across the Abbey linking the Opera site to Georges Quay.

What is the story with that bridge? It seems to be always locked at one end.

Summerrose75

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It's not new news and has been discussed on here previously (probably in the Limerick Improvements thread). The proposal is a bridge across the Shannon between Sarsfield and Shannon bridges, a replacement for the Sylvester O'Halloran bridge and a bridge across the Abbey linking the Opera site to Georges Quay.

It was the reference made on the northern distributor road not the pedestrian bridges across the Shannon

Cookiemunster

Summerrose75 wrote: »

It was the reference made on the northern distributor road not the pedestrian bridges across the Shannon

It's not me you need to be explaining that to

Summerrose75

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It's not me you need to be explaining that to

That's true😉

topper75

2019 ticking along now. Any machinery operating around Coonagh/Redgate these days?
I'm starting to doubt if I will get to drive on Phase 1 in my lifetime! :-)

Summerrose75

Does anyone know if the lead authority on this project has yet received permission from TII on the docking point onto the Mackey roundabout on phase 2 of the project

LimerickCity

topper75 wrote: »

2019 ticking along now. Any machinery operating around Coonagh/Redgate these days?
I'm starting to doubt if I will get to drive on Phase 1 in my lifetime! :-)

I believe that the foundations created for the road from Tesco to OCR need to settle for a year or so. The last bit of work which I noticed over that way was to finish the road into Tesco which leads the a roundabout that will connect with the new road.

Glenomra

Summerrose75 wrote: »

Does anyone know if the lead authority on this project has yet received permission from TII on the docking point onto the Mackey roundabout on phase 2 of the project

I don't think they did. Possibly, might not ass TII know that the proposed road would furhter undermine the viability of the tunnel crossing.

Kenny B

topper75 wrote: »

2019 ticking along now. Any machinery operating around Coonagh/Redgate these days?
I'm starting to doubt if I will get to drive on Phase 1 in my lifetime! :-)

I did notice the Lack of machinery around there last weekend.

Previously there were some materials left in the field next to the road (Ferndale side) but that field is empty and now seems to have been leveled off, looking as if it's ready to be returned to the farmer.

Glenomra

I presume the Green wave has put an end to the idea of running this road across the biggest floodplain of the Lower River Shannon

Mc Love

Hopefully

Cookiemunster

Glenomra wrote: »

I presume the Green wave has put an end to the idea of running this road across the biggest floodplain of the Lower River Shannon

The 'green wave' polled 6% nationally and got 2 candidates elected onto the 40 seat council. In the cold light of day, outside of the Dublin, there wasn't really any wave.

mitresize5

One Green councilor elected in Clare as well so that isnt going to stop anything on that side.

Drive on with it ...pun intended

Glenomra

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The 'green wave' polled 6% nationally and got 2 candidates elected onto the 40 seat council. In the cold light of day, outside of the Dublin, there wasn't really any wave.

I agree Cookiemunster. also note other poster's comment that the Greens only have three councillors between counties Clare and Limerick, an insufficient number to vote through any specific policy. However, in my opinion that is not the main point re this road and the Greens. inevitably, following 'the Green wave', real or imagined, significant changes will be introduced in many areas, transport, carbon tax, planning, farming etc, many of which I don't personally look forward to. New regulations will be introduced. That is the context in which the planners will have to proceed with their aim of getting planning permission for the road at Bord Pleanala and subsequently through the courts or Europe. Quite simply, they will be looking for planning permission to build a dual carriageway across a mile and half of floodplain in a Special Area of Conservation. The very mention of floodplain will spook a lot of politicians, many of whom currently support the road. Shane Ross only got a minuscule share of the national vote but because the present government requires his support, he has single-handedly managed to get legislation through the Dail that has greatly impacted on rural Ireland. And political parties like Fianna Fail, most of whose TDs oppose Ross's policies in private are afraid to say so publicly. When Floodplain is mentioned how many will support the distributor road. time to look for alternatives. Another cliche maybe, time to bin it.

kilburn

Flood plain has been mentioned for years

Glenomra

kilburn wrote: »

Flood plain has been mentioned for years

agreed, and many people get very annoyed at the prospect of building on it. Even Leo Varadker when he was minster for transport [I think that his ministry] said that he was concerned about it. Whether he was or not, I have my doubts as he allowed the project continue through the initial stages. I fully accept, however that not everybody however , and certainly not the planners, were concerned about it. but context changes everything. many politicians who were unconcerned about building on the floodplain last week will be 'very concerned' next week as they contemplate tapping into the Green agenda.

Cookiemunster

Building a road on a flood plain is not an issue with modern engineering. It can be put on stilts or on an embankment that has tunnels underneath to allow flood water pass through (As recently done on the N30 in Wexford). If this fails in planning then it won't be because it's due to be built on a flood plain.

And again, 6% of the national vote, is not a Green agenda.

Glenomra

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Building a road on a flood plain is not an issue with modern engineering. It can be put on stilts or on an embankment that has tunnels underneath to allow flood water pass through (As recently done on the N30 in Wexford). If this fails in planning then it won't be because it's due to be built on a flood plain.

And again, 6% of the national vote, is not a Green agenda.

everybody knows that the road can be built. we could also build houses on flood plains, raise the ground or raise the houses. the question is should we build on a floodplain when alternatives are available. imo this planning will fail because of the floodplain, and that view is corroborated by qualified environmentalists that I have spoken to. Even a simple internet search threw up the following newspaper headlines in succession. yet you say that planners wouldn't reject this road on the grounds of protecting a floodplain.
CLARE COUNTY Council yesterday refused planning permission for a ... the outskirts of Ennis because the proposal is located on a floodplain.
Delight as planning refused on Meath floodplain.
Planning guidelines for flood risk should be amended to add a a ban on future ...
[OPW Guidelines]Avoid development in areas at risk of flooding, particularly floodplains............
The impact of development on Oranmore's floodplains has long been a source ... In February, Bord Pleanála refused planning permission for a ...
135 apartment development in Maynooth rejected due to potential impact ... to third party properties and lands arising from the loss of floodplain storage. ..

Cookiemunster

Glenomra wrote: »

everybody knows that the road can be built. we could also build houses on flood plains, raise the ground or raise the houses. the question is should we build on a floodplain when alternatives are available. imo this planning will fail because of the floodplain, and that view is corroborated by qualified environmentalists that I have spoken to. Even a simple internet search threw up the following newspaper headlines in succession. yet you say that planners wouldn't reject this road on the grounds of protecting a floodplain.
CLARE COUNTY Council yesterday refused planning permission for a ... the outskirts of Ennis because the proposal is located on a floodplain.
Delight as planning refused on Meath floodplain.
Planning guidelines for flood risk should be amended to add a a ban on future ...
[OPW Guidelines]Avoid development in areas at risk of flooding, particularly floodplains............
The impact of development on Oranmore's floodplains has long been a source ... In February, Bord Pleanála refused planning permission for a ...
135 apartment development in Maynooth rejected due to potential impact ... to third party properties and lands arising from the loss of floodplain storage. ..

You've not actually linked to any of those stories, but I presume that they're all buildings. Buildings and transport infrastructure are not comparable in this situation. You don't put buildings across rivers or through mountains either, but you do put roads over/through them. Roads are regularly built on flood plains without impacting the flooding events or the roads.

Cookiemunster

marno21 wrote: »

The Green Wave is irrelevant in comparison to Limerick now having a directly elected mayor to push issues like this if they see fit.

Limerick hasn't anything yet. I hope they government does push ahead, but with Waterford and Cork rejecting the vote there's no guarantee that they'll proceed with it in Limerick.

Glenomra

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You've not actually linked to any of those stories, but I presume that they're all buildings. Buildings and transport infrastructure are not comparable in this situation. You don't put buildings across rivers or through mountains either, but you do put roads over/through them. Roads are regularly built on flood plains without impacting the flooding events or the roads.

I presume that you are familiar with the various important road projects refused planning permission on Environmental grounds, including Galway [european court decision] and Slane by-pass etc. I believe that this proposed road would also fail on environmental grounds.

Cookiemunster

Glenomra wrote: »

I presume that you are familiar with the various important road projects refused planning permission on Environmental grounds, including Galway [european court decision] and Slane by-pass etc. I believe that this proposed road would also fail on environmental grounds.

Which I didn't argue about. I said that the road being on a flood plain wasn't the issue it being made out to be.

phog

Glenomra wrote: »

I presume the Green wave has put an end to the idea of running this road across the biggest floodplain of the Lower River Shannon

There's more waves in that flood plain you keep referring to than there was a Green Wave outside of Dublin

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Which I didn't argue about. I said that the road being on a flood plain wasn't the issue it being made out to be.

Aside from Glenomra are there many more posters/authorities/decision makers making an issue of the flood plain?

topper75

The Condell Rd. going through Westfields is a very familiar local precedent of how to build a road across a flood plain with an embankment.

It celebrates a birthday on Thursday - 31 years. We all have our own standards. But that at 31 I think she has passed the test. Happy birthday old girl. I remember the snarled up Sarsfield bridge and Ennis road and I'll never take you for granted.

I'd like one day to see traffic roll across the north of Limerick and tell disbelieving kids how once you could be waiting for half an hour in the mornings to get through Corbally, how Annacotty used to back up every evening without fail, and how it nearly never happened at all because of a 6% green 'wave' vote :-).

phog

topper75 wrote: »

The Condell Rd. going through Westfields is a very familiar local precedent of how to build a road across a flood plain with an embankment.

It celebrates a birthday on Thursday - 31 years. We all have our own standards. But that at 31 I think she has passed the test. Happy birthday old girl. I remember the snarled up Sarsfield bridge and Ennis road and I'll never take you for granted.

Anyone remember the way they used to alternate the 2 lane traffic into town in the morning and out in the evenings? Those were the days

Glenomra

I too would like to know what other posters think. Not just a about whether they should build on the floodplain but also whether doing so will make it more difficult for the planners to get planning permission. I personally believe that it will but quite simply I might be wrong. I am not the Pope speaking ex cathedra.

Berty

To be fair the Condell road collapsed one day with a sink hole around 2000/2001 but other than that, and the awkward speed limit, it has done itself proud.

Mc Love

topper75 wrote: »

The Condell Rd. going through Westfields is a very familiar local precedent of how to build a road across a flood plain with an embankment.

It celebrates a birthday on Thursday - 31 years. We all have our own standards. But that at 31 I think she has passed the test. Happy birthday old girl. I remember the snarled up Sarsfield bridge and Ennis road and I'll never take you for granted.

I'd like one day to see traffic roll across the north of Limerick and tell disbelieving kids how once you could be waiting for half an hour in the mornings to get through Corbally, how Annacotty used to back up every evening without fail, and how it nearly never happened at all because of a 6% green 'wave' vote :-).

I'd like one day to see cycle lanes and less traffic in the city, and tell disbelieving kids how once you could be waiting for half an hour in the mornings to get through Corbally, but since more safe cycling infrastructure was introduced and people took up cycling, that this was never an issue ever again.

People need to think outside the box. Cycling is the future

Phileas Frog

Berty wrote: »

To be fair the Condell road collapsed one day with a sink hole around 2000/2001 but other than that, and the awkward speed limit, it has done itself proud.

And no houses were built on it despite the scaremongering of some around here about the LNDR.