Limerick Northern Distributor Road Plan

mitresize5

Well it looks like this has been shelved on the behest of our Green minister of transport supported by local green TD Brian Leddin who was a regular contributor to this thread before his election.

It's been sidelined for a 'better' solution with rail links at its core. Rail links from Glennagross park. I kid you not.

The first part of this road is an integral part of the regeneration of the area. Allowing access for industry and egress for long suffering residents. This will be solved now by rail links and cycle paths.

You couldn't actually make it up.

The one solace for the locals I suppose is the Greens will likely be wiped out in the next GE and this key piece of infrastructure will be back on the table.

I hope the people of Limerick remember this the next time they are looking at a ballot paper.

Cookiemunster

To make it worse, €17m has already been spent on preparatory works raising the ground level and building 300m of road next to Tesco Coonagh that took 18 months to complete. They're a complete jokeshop of a party.

And it was to contain segregated cycle lanes and bus lanes.

adaminho

mitresize5 wrote: »

Well it looks like this has been shelved on the behest of our Green minister of transport supported by local green TD Brian Leddin who was a regular contributor to this thread before his election.

It's been sidelined for a 'better' solution with rail links at its core. Rail links from Glennagross park. I kid you not.

The first part of this road is an integral part of the regeneration of the area. Allowing access for industry and egress for long suffering residents. This will be solved now by rail links and cycle paths.

You couldn't actually make it up.

The one solace for the locals I suppose is the Greens will likely be wiped out in the next GE and this key piece of infrastructure will be back on the table.

I hope the people of Limerick remember this the next time they are looking at a ballot paper.

Honestly the Coonagh part makes sense to go ahead! You could argue the rest (I'd be for it) I had the Greens as my 4th choice as I can see the benefits of a better public transport, cycling and walking city. But between this and the M20 I fail to see what they bring.

banie01

Wasn't the coonagh-moyross-meelick part of this road an integral part of the regeneration process and ensuring that the Northside had adequate road connectivity?

mitresize5

mitresize5 wrote: »

The first part of this road is an integral part of the regeneration of the area. Allowing access for industry and egress for long suffering residents. This will be solved now by rail links and cycle paths.

Can you develop that for me? Genuinely curious what industry is planning to locate to Moyross. Are there plans for an industrial estate out there?

to me this road is just another way to open up land around Limerick for more and more housing estates. Every time I'm back I'm amazed the city is being allowed swallow Mungret and Annacotty.

adaminho

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you develop that for me? Genuinely curious what industry is planning to locate to Moyross. Are there plans for an industrial estate out there?

to me this road is just another way to open up land around Limerick for more and more housing estates. Every time I'm back I'm amazed the city is being allowed swallow Mungret and Annacotty.

It's not that there is new industry opening up. If you live at the end of Moyross and work in Shannon or Raheen you have to go via Watch house cross and Union cross to get there! If you go straight onto Coonagh roundabout you'd be there 15 mins earlier!

adaminho

adaminho wrote: »

It's not that there is new industry opening up. If you live at the end of Moyross and work in Shannon or Raheen you have to go via Watch house cross and Union cross to get there! If you go straight onto Coonagh roundabout you'd be there 15 mins earlier!

Tbf, that's not the same as someone saying it's needed to bring industry in.

I'm very dubious of an extra 15 minutes each way being enough to keep someone from working in Shannon or Raheen tbh. Are there any reports showing people are being delayed to that extent? What numbers etc?

We'd be better off giving the €40,000,000 to LIT to open their campus directly into Moyross, rather than having LIT move towards Coonagh, imo, if we're spending that amount.

banie01

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Tbf, that's not the same as someone saying it's needed to bring industry in.

I'm very dubious of an extra 15 minutes each way being enough to keep someone from working in Shannon or Raheen tbh. Are there any reports showing people are being delayed to that extent? What numbers etc?

We'd be better off giving the €40,000,000 to LIT to open their campus directly into Moyross, rather than having LIT move towards Coonagh, imo, if we're spending that amount.

One of the main findings of the regeneration report was that a large portion of the population on the Northside of the city was quite geographically isolated and dependent upon a single access road into and out of the largest housing estate in the country outside of Dublin.

It was recommended that transport links be improved and that in particular an access road into/out of Moyross be added at the northern end.

The plan was then that it would link up with a then envisioned link road that grew into the northern distributor road.

The issue of social isolation and deviance that was/is driving the issues that led to serious violence and anti social behaviour in the area, was partly driven by the physical separation of Moyross from the rest of the city.

Similar issues with Southill too, but better access to the old cork road at least up that way.

banie01

banie01 wrote: »

One of the main findings of the regeneration report was that a large portion of the population on the Northside of the city was quite geographically isolated and dependent upon a single access road into and out of the largest housing estate in the country outside of Dublin.

It was recommended that transport links be improved and that in particular an access road into/out of Moyross be added at the northern end.

The plan was then that it would link up with a then envisioned link road that grew into the northern distributor road.

The issue of social isolation and deviance that was/is driving the issues that led to serious violence and anti social behaviour in the area, was partly driven by the physical separation of Moyross from the rest of the city.

Similar issues with Southill too, but better access to the old cork road at least up that way.

I don't disagree but again, we should open the roads through Woodview to the Old Cratloe road and re-orientate the LIT campus to face Moyross, imo, if we want Moyross to be part of it's surrounding community. I don't see that a new road delivers all that much, apart from the convenience mentioned above. How about taking the money and giving scholarships to LIT and UL to students from Moyross? a 40 million scholarship fund would be genuinely transformative.

If anyone has any links to an industrial estate being built there (and presumably with firms lined up) I think that would significantly change the argument but as it is I just view it as more sprawl from a country who should have learned by now to avoid it.

kilburn

Here we go again........

It's amazing how people just don't get the need to open up the area to facilitate improving the residents lives.

Regeneration obviously is not something the Green Party are in favour of.

Shame on Brian Leddin supporting it, I hope every other councillor and TD loose their lives and go nuts over this.

kilburn

kilburn wrote: »

Here we go again........

It's amazing how people just don't get the need to open up the area to facilitate improving the residents lives.

Regeneration obviously is not something the Green Party are in favour of.

Shame on Brian Leddin supporting it, I hope every other councillor and TD loose their lives and go nuts over this.

A 40 million third level scholarship would go further, imo, what do you think of using the funds for that?

kilburn

Deleted User wrote:

A 40 million third level scholarship would go further, imo, what do you think of using the funds for that?

I believe opening up Moyross is more important to ensure we don't go back to what happened in the past.

Small little enclaves that become ghettos with one road in and out ran by dropouts and the lowest of the low is no good for anyone.

A 40m scholarship won't do anything for that.

kilburn

kilburn wrote: »

I believe opening up Moyross is more important to ensure we don't go back to what happened in the past.

Small little enclaves that become ghettos with one road in and out ran by dropouts and the lowest of the low is no good for anyone.

A 40m scholarship won't do anything for that.

Wow, that's a fine way to describe the people who have lived there and worked hard to improve it all their lives, despite it's rep. Don't believe everything RTE tell you about it.

kilburn

Deleted User wrote:

Wow, that's a fine way to describe the people who have lived there and worked hard to improve it all their lives, despite it's rep. Don't believe everything RTE tell you about it.

Sorry but Limerick locals know exactly who i am referring too

kilburn

kilburn wrote: »

Sorry but Limerick locals know exactly who i am referring too

I may not have lived in Limerick recently but i know plenty of decent people from Moyross.

Your comment says way more about you than it does about them.

banie01

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't disagree but again, we should open the roads through Woodview to the Old Cratloe road and re-orientate the LIT campus to face Moyross, imo, if we want Moyross to be part of it's surrounding community. I don't see that a new road delivers all that much, apart from the convenience mentioned above. How about taking the money and giving scholarships to LIT and UL to students from Moyross? a 40 million scholarship fund would be genuinely transformative.

If anyone has any links to an industrial estate being built there (and presumably with firms lined up) I think that would significantly change the argument but as it is I just view it as more sprawl from a country who should have learned by now to avoid it.

LIT borders on @ 30/35mtrs of Moyross at Cliona Park.
There was once pedestrian access into Kelly's field there but that's long gone.
The rest of the eastern side of what's now LIT but used to be Kelly's field runs along Ballynanty and Thomond park.
There is no point of access or change of orientation that will gain access to Moyross without knocking fairly new houses, or building an access road from College Avenue through the Thomond community campus?

Whereas the northern access road offers immediate access via undeveloped lands, with the added benefit of actually being able to be incorporated with an overall ringroad system.

banie01

banie01 wrote: »

LIT borders on @ 30/35mtrs of Moyross at Cliona Park.
There was once pedestrian access into Kelly's field there but that's long gone.
The rest of the eastern side of what's now LIT but used to be Kelly's field runs along Ballynanty and Thomond park.
There is no point of access or change of orientation that will gain access to Moyross without knocking fairly new houses, or building an access road from College Avenue through the Thomond community campus?

Whereas the northern access road offers immediate access via undeveloped lands, with the added benefit of actually being able to be incorporated with an overall ringroad system.

It's possible I'm way off, I'm out of town a long time, relatively speaking. I remember there been a fair bit of green space between the back of LIT's carpark and Cliona Park, I don't go by there often (bad access, you know yourself), maybe it's built up now?

banie01

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's possible I'm way off, I'm out of town a long time, relatively speaking. I remember there been a fair bit of green space between the back of LIT's carpark and Cliona Park, I don't go by there often (bad access, you know yourself), maybe it's built up now?

The access to Cliona park did exist, it's gone now as houses have been built where that access lay.
There was an @12acre field lying to the east of LIT, the vast majority of it bordered Thomond, Ballynanty and then St Nessans, with a row of Houses and a gap into Cliona.
It was only ever a pedestrian gate onto a desire path.
The entirety of the area of Cliona that was open to LIT was @30mtrs.

Couple that with needing to then build accessible approach roads to your proposed access?
There isn't a straight access road, none of what currently exists is amenable to increased traffic as it is it would all be routed through existing residential areas in Cliona and the surrounding estates.

I don't see the benefit in knocking houses, dividing the estate that remains with a main road to reorientate a college and a housing estate to a point where no feasible access exists in any case?

Heavy traffic through housing estates is hardly appropriate spatial management?

mdmix

The same people who are outraged that the scheme “to open up moyross” didn’t open they’re mouth when all the pedestrian access points were fenced off 15 years ago. Access to LIT, old cratlo road and wood view still blocked. The road to coonagh was simple an access road to allow developers build on the land. Its only connecting to moyross because there was regeneration money available.

More needs to be done for moyross, but local politicians will go back to ignoring the area if the road does get built.

banie01

mdmix wrote: »

The same people who are outraged that the scheme “to open up moyross” didn’t open they’re mouth when all the pedestrian access points were fenced off 15 years ago. Access to LIT, old cratlo road and wood view still blocked. The road to coonagh was simple an access road to allow developers build on the land. Its only connecting to moyross because there was regeneration money available.

More needs to be done for moyross, but local politicians will go back to ignoring the area if the road does get built.

Agree 100%
There is still pedestrian access to the old Cratloe Road though.
Just via a ridiculously convuluted swinging metal yoke that makes it very inconvenient for anyone with a buggy, bags, a bike or similar.

Also, goes a long way towards developing "them and us" mindset, it's fairly clear who the gate is aimed at.
It's just another way of ensuring Moyross is enclosed, terribly poor behaviour on Councils part.

mitresize5

Dont worry lads the Greens rail focused solution will sort it all out

mitresize5

banie01 wrote: »

Agree 100%
There is still pedestrian access to the old Cratloe Road though.
Just via a ridiculously convuluted swinging metal yoke that makes it very inconvenient for anyone with a buggy, bags, a bike or similar.

Also, goes a long way towards developing "them and us" mindset, it's fairly clear who the gate is aimed at.
It's just another way of ensuring Moyross is enclosed, terribly poor behaviour on Councils part.

The great thing about this road is it would have taken all that bull**** off the table. A local council representative couldn't have decided to close access points at a whim.

They're would be a four lane road with buss lanes and cycle ways opening up to whole end of moyross.

The Greens interference in this has done a huge disservice to some of the most disadvantaged people in the country. It actually beggars belief

ShRT

The problem is that it had the word road in the project title. The greens don't want to approve anything with a road in it.
The minister approved a "bridge" project not that long ago though.......

https://www.bridgeweb.com/Ireland-awards-funding-for-River-Suir-bridge/7405

phog

I have to say, I'm not surprised with this kind of messing around by Ryan and the Green Party, iirc, they were in government when Re-generation was launched way back and now here they back in government and are going against one of the main issues raised in the report.

mitresize5

mitresize5 wrote: »

The great thing about this road is it would have taken all that bull**** off the table. A local council representative couldn't have decided to close access points at a whim.

They're would be a four lane road with buss lanes and cycle ways opening up to whole end of moyross.

The Greens interference in this has done a huge disservice to some of the most disadvantaged people in the country. It actually beggars belief

why does it need to be four lanes? that's running a dual carriageway through the area.

mdmix

mdmix wrote: »

The same people who are outraged that the scheme “to open up moyross” didn’t open they’re mouth when all the pedestrian access points were fenced off 15 years ago. Access to LIT, old cratlo road and wood view still blocked. The road to coonagh was simple an access road to allow developers build on the land. Its only connecting to moyross because there was regeneration money available.

More needs to be done for moyross, but local politicians will go back to ignoring the area if the road does get built.

Think this sums it up pretty well tbh. Open up the closed routes first and foremost.

phog

Deleted User wrote: »

why does it need to be four lanes? that's running a dual carriageway through the area.

There isn't going to be a dual carriageway running through Moyross, that's more spin from the Greens

Mr. Sheehy went on to provide a description of the scheme. He said the
preliminary design fitted into the existing landscape and he said the Coonagh -
Knockalisheen Road would be an urban style dual carriageway construction
over a length of 2.6 kilometres. He said the new link road into Moyross would
be a single carriageway of 0.6 kilometres and widening an improvement of the
Knockalisheen Road would be over a length of 1.8 kilometres. He said there
would be new roundabout junctions provided near the Coonagh Shopping
Centre replacing the existing roundabout, a roundabout at the Cratloe Road, a
roundabout at the Moyross link road intersection and a roundabout at the
northern end of the Castle Park Estate lands with a further roundabout at the
intersection of the Knockalisheen Road. (See Slide 23).

phog

phog wrote: »

There isn't going to be a dual carriageway running through Moyross, that's more spin from the Greens

Four lanes is virtually by definition a "dual" carriageway. What else would you call it?

Perhaps the road can be scaled back to a single carriageway and any excess put into community projects or a scholarship fund?

To address your edit, most of the road is a dual carriageway, why is that necessary?

Anyone have any info on the proposed industry setting up there?

Treepole

Deleted User wrote: »

Four lanes is virtually by definition a "dual" carriageway. What else would you call it?

Perhaps the road can be scaled back to a single carriageway and any excess put into community projects or a scholarship fund?

To address your edit, most of the road is a dual carriageway, why is that necessary?

Anyone have any info on the proposed industry setting up there?

It literally says that in what he quoted :rolleyes:

He said the new link road into Moyross would
be a single carriageway of 0.6 kilometres

phog

Deleted User wrote: »

Four lanes is virtually by definition a "dual" carriageway. What else would you call it?

Perhaps the road can be scaled back to a single carriageway and any excess put into community projects or a scholarship fund?

To address your edit, most of the road is a dual carriageway, why is that necessary?

Anyone have any info on the proposed industry setting up there?

The road through Moyross is not 4 lanes.