Limerick Northern Distributor Road Plan

Brennans Row

IDA targets 76 investments in Mid West over next three years (Limerick Leader)

As part of this, the job creation agency will construct its own advanced manufacturing centre between now and 2024, as well as upgrading its stock of business parks across the region including the National Technology Park in Plassey.

The IDA Ireland is also looking to identify a “strategic” site in an as-yet-unidentified location in the region.

Well they won't be looking for a strategic site along the unbuilt Northern Distributor Road. :rolleyes:

At least the Clare County Council had plans for a Meelick Strategic Development Area and a UL Strategic Development Area along the planned Northern Distributor Road.

phog

Brennans Row wrote: »

Let's say if you lived in Westbury and you want to get to the N69 (Junction2 on the photo above).

Currently you'll drive through the city but if that lovely red road was there you would certainly look at using the road and the tunnel and avoid the city altogether.

mdmix

phog wrote: »

Let's say if you lived in Westbury and you want to get to the N69 (Junction2 on the photo above).

Currently you'll drive through the city but if that lovely red road was there you would certainly look at using the road and the tunnel and avoid the city altogether.

And how many people need to make that trip daily? Probably less than what the wesbury bus takes in a day. 200 million for that lovely red road. If we are willing to piss away that kind of money, let’s at least put it towards the limerick monorail.

We don’t need to close off the entire city. O’Connell street will do for now - as was promised when the southern ring road was being planned.

breezy1985

mdmix wrote: »

And how many people need to make that trip daily? Probably less than what the wesbury bus takes in a day. 200 million for that lovely red road. If we are willing to piss away that kind of money, let’s at least put it towards the limerick monorail.

We don’t need to close off the entire city. O’Connell street will do for now - as was promised when the southern ring road was being planned.

Driving through the main streets of a city should never be the main option for getting from A to B unless your destination is there.


People on the Northside need to use William, Clare or O'Connell st. way too much and its a nightmare to get to UL or the centres that have the vast bulk of shops in Limerick so its not pissing away anything

mdmix

breezy1985 wrote: »

Driving through the main streets of a city should never be the main option for getting from A to B unless your destination is there.


People on the Northside need to use William, Clare or O'Connell st. way too much and its a nightmare to get to UL or the centres that have the vast bulk of shops in Limerick so its not pissing away anything

Clare street is not a Main Street. Most of the north side should be using the tunnel to get to UL and not the city

Nobody needs to use William street for anything other than going to William street. This could be closed to cars immediately without any need to any changes.

Traffic through O’Connell street can be rerouted to allow pedestrianisation. Oconnel street is about to be reduced to one lane anyway, this could have been done years ago without any major works

rob230te

I wouldn't say using the tunnel for UL makes sense for most of the northside. Maybe for parts of Caherdavin / Clonmacken. But it still adds 10km to the journey.
Moyross to UL is about 7.5km. Moyross to the tunnel is 6.5 so madness to use it for anyone there.

Vanquished

It often seems to be forgotten that a 20km €770 million motorway/motorway standard dual carriageway was constructed to intercept traffic on all National routes converging on Limerick (M7, N24, M20, N69 and N18). Providing a bypass of the urban area from east to north. There is absolutely no requirement for cross city journeys to undertaken via O'Connell Street and the heart of the city. Aside from the ring road there are a multitude of existing routes that can be used to avoid the city centre.

If you're in Caherdavin and want to go to Dooradoyle then use the Condell road and Dock Road. Going from Mayorstone to Castletroy: Sexton Street North - High road - Island Road - Sraid O'Cinneide - Dublin Road.
Corbally to Dooradoyle can be undertaken via Pa Healy road - Dublin road - Childers road - Ballinacurra road.

The infrastructure is already in place yet some people still think we need to spend at least another €150 million running a road through agricultural land, a SAC and floodplain to provide a route that isn't remotely required or justified. Traffic congestion in Limerick is extremely limited and is virtually non existant in comparison to Cork and Galway. There is a sense of entitlement amongst too many motorists that ownership of a car permits them to drive wherever they want unimpeded. The irony here is that those motorists raging about congestion don't appear to realise that they are not stuck in traffic. They are traffic.

breezy1985

rob230te wrote: »

I wouldn't say using the tunnel for UL makes sense for most of the northside. Maybe for parts of Caherdavin / Clonmacken. But it still adds 10km to the journey.
Moyross to UL is about 7.5km. Moyross to the tunnel is 6.5 so madness to use it for anyone there.

It would be madness did someone suggest that?

breezy1985

Vanquished wrote: »

It often seems to be forgotten that a 20km €770 million motorway/motorway standard dual carriageway was constructed to intercept traffic on all National routes converging on Limerick (M7, N24, M20, N69 and N18). Providing a bypass of the urban area from east to north. There is absolutely no requirement for cross city journeys to undertaken via O'Connell Street and the heart of the city. Aside from the ring road there are a multitude of existing routes that can be used to avoid the city centre.

If you're in Caherdavin and want to go to Dooradoyle then use the Condell road and Dock Road. Going from Mayorstone to Castletroy: Sexton Street North - High road - Island Road - Sraid O'Cinneide - Dublin Road.
Corbally to Dooradoyle can be undertaken via Pa Healy road - Dublin road - Childers road - Ballinacurra road.

The infrastructure is already in place yet some people still think we need to spend at least another €150 million running a road through agricultural land, a SAC and floodplain to provide a route that isn't remotely required or justified. Traffic congestion in Limerick is extremely limited and is virtually non existant in comparison to Cork and Galway. There is a sense of entitlement amongst too many motorists that ownership of a car permits them to drive wherever they want unimpeded. The irony here is that those motorists raging about congestion don't appear to realise that they are not stuck in traffic. They are traffic.

All those roads mentioned are already very busy and many through residential areas so I would love to see the ring road built to free roads like the High Rd. of through traffic and make life a little easier for the buses and maybe even a few bike lanes

rob230te

breezy1985 wrote: »

It would be madness did someone suggest that?

Couple of posts back. Said most of the northside should use the tunnel for UL.
Really it would make sense for a small amount of people.

mdmix

breezy1985 wrote: »

All those roads mentioned are already very busy and many through residential areas so I would love to see the ring road built to free roads like the High Rd. of through traffic and make life a little easier for the buses and maybe even a few bike lanes

Fair enough, but that is not on offer. Adding a bus or cycle lane on high road could only be done by removing on street parking. This could be done today without affecting existing road traffic. Residents would resist so limerick council will not consider it.

As I said earlier if the project included an orbital bus route that included dedicated lanes from high road to watch house cross, knocknasheen to coonagh and coonagh to Sarsfield bridge then the proposed road would have catered for most of the north side (not just the 50% of moyross households with car access). The walls in moyross need to come down too. An outcome like this would be ideal.

The scope of the new road was too narrow and does not meet the target set out to “open up moyross”. The goal is to open up land banks for development which will ultimately hurt the city.

mdmix

mdmix wrote: »

Fair enough, but that is not on offer. Adding a bus or cycle lane on high road could only be done by removing on street parking. This could be done today without affecting existing road traffic. Residents would resist so limerick council will not consider it.

As I said earlier if the project included an orbital bus route that included dedicated lanes from high road to watch house cross, knocknasheen to coonagh and coonagh to Sarsfield bridge then the proposed road would have catered for most of the north side (not just the 50% of moyross households with car access). The walls in moyross need to come down too. An outcome like this would be ideal.

The scope of the new road was too narrow and does not meet the target set out to “open up moyross”. The goal is to open up land banks for development which will ultimately hurt the city.

rob230te wrote: »

Couple of posts back. Said most of the northside should use the tunnel for UL.
Really it would make sense for a small amount of people.

Key word there being “most” of the north side,

breezy1985

mdmix wrote: »

Fair enough, but that is not on offer. Adding a bus or cycle lane on high road could only be done by removing on street parking. This could be done today without affecting existing road traffic. Residents would resist so limerick council will not consider it.

The only section that would need removal of parking is from the Treaty Stone to Fine Wines the rest is wide enough and I can understand those houses not wanting to lose spaces

rob230te

mdmix wrote: »

Key word there being “most” of the north side,

Yes I know "most" is the key word. And in my opinion it doesn't make sense for "most" people on the northside to use the tunnel for UL.

Or do we have different definitions of what the northside includes. For Thomondgate, Moyross, Ballynanty, Mayorstone and a lot of other parts you'd be mad to use it.
And like I said even for people in Clonmacken beside it there's an extra 10km.

mdmix

rob230te wrote: »

Yes I know "most" is the key word. And in my opinion it doesn't make sense for "most" people on the northside to use the tunnel for UL.

Or do we have different definitions of what the northside includes. For Thomondgate, Moyross, Ballynanty, Mayorstone and a lot of other parts you'd be mad to use it.
And like I said even for people in Clonmacken beside it there's an extra 10km.

Distance doesn’t matter if your journey is still quicker, the extra distance on the ring road would still be more efficient than stop/start traffic.

Glenomra

I read that the minister has issued a statement. Interesting to read his call for the barriers between Moyross and LIT to be removed, which the institute previously demanded be erected. The president of LIT was adamant on rte the other night that Moyross requires greater connectivity. LIT can now deliver immediately on that objective. Allow the residents of Moyross open access to the campus.

breezy1985

mdmix wrote: »

Distance doesn’t matter if your journey is still quicker, the extra distance on the ring road would still be more efficient than stop/start traffic.

It wouldnt be quicker though and you still have on of the 2 big start stop points to deal with at Hassetts Cross for a lot of people and the drive out to the tunnel entrance could be as bad as the route to Clare St.


If they open the last bit of road at Coonagh Cross to the Country Club and build a road between Moyross and Caherdavin then maybe.


But even better would be to re open the back road into UL that was closed because of some NIMBY farmer

breezy1985

Glenomra wrote: »

I read that the minister has issued a statement. Interesting to read his call for the barriers between Moyross and LIT to be removed, which the institute previously demanded be erected. The president of LIT was adamant on rte the other night that Moyross requires greater connectivity. LIT can now deliver immediately on that objective. Allow the residents of Moyross open access to the campus.

What barriers?


Does he mean the hedgerow around the LIT pitches

mdmix

breezy1985 wrote: »

It wouldnt be quicker though and you still have on of the 2 big start stop points to deal with at Hassetts Cross for a lot of people and the drive out to the tunnel entrance could be as bad as the route to Clare St.


If they open the last bit of road at Coonagh Cross to the Country Club and build a road between Moyross and Caherdavin then maybe.

But even better would be to re open the back road into UL that was closed because of some NIMBY farmer

I think most of the north side should be using the tunnel, but don’t, and this causes traffic build ups in a lot of areas, including hassets.

Coonagh to knocknasheen has progressed enough at this point to continue (I have outlined changes I would like to see in previous post), which will allow access to the tunnel for those who want to use it - I don’t think Clare street needs any major traffic restrictions anyway. I do not think phase 2 of the NDR should proceed.

breezy1985

mdmix wrote: »

I think most of the north side should be using the tunnel, but don’t, and this causes traffic build ups in a lot of areas, including hassets.

Coonagh to knocknasheen has progressed enough at this point to continue (I have outlined changes I would like to see in previous post), which will allow access to the tunnel for those who want to use it - I don’t think Clare street needs any major traffic restrictions anyway. I do not think phase 2 of the NDR should proceed.

You clearly dont have a clue then. You are just moving bottlenecks not reducing them. Even from an environmental point of view why would you want cars driving the entire circumference of the city to get to UL rather than a quick road the other way.

North Limerick is the densest area of the city by a long shot but also the worst connected. Crap roads to UL no bus to the Hospital or UL, Caherdavin barely has a bus but hey lads as long as Castletroy and Dooradoyle get sorted who cares

banie01

Glenomra wrote: »

I read that the minister has issued a statement. Interesting to read his call for the barriers between Moyross and LIT to be removed, which the institute previously demanded be erected. The president of LIT was adamant on rte the other night that Moyross requires greater connectivity. LIT can now deliver immediately on that objective. Allow the residents of Moyross open access to the campus.

From where?

Where does the minister and anyone associated with call to open up the campus, expect that access to occur?

It's already been highlighted earlier in the thread just how little of Moyross borders LIT.

There is controlled pedestrian access via Fitzgerald park to wWoodview.
There is controlled pedestrian access via college avenue to Thomond College.
There is a closed and long abandoned access road from pineview to the Old Cratloe Road that now has housing on both sides.
There is pedestrian access via a swing gate structure to Glenmore Lawn.

Those barriers hem in people in Moyross and do IMO need to be removed.
The thing is?
That still doesn't provide access to LIT.
LIT access is being regarded as a panacea here.

How would it actually help Moyross and improve connectivity in Pineview, Craeval, Glenagross, College Avenue and Dalglish park?

Will it improve public transport to those places?

banie01

breezy1985 wrote: »

You clearly dont have a clue then. You are just moving bottlenecks not reducing them. Even from an environmental point of view why would you want cars driving the entire circumference of the city to get to UL rather than a quick road the other way.

North Limerick is the densest area of the city by a long shot but also the worst connected. Crap roads to UL no bus to the Hospital or UL, Caherdavin barely has a bus but hey lads as long as Castletroy and Dooradoyle get sorted who cares

In fairness, Caherdavin has a 20 minute bus service.
It needs far more, either higher frequency, bigger(majority is already double decker tho) or dedicated bus lanes to keep some degree of regularity.

My only dog in this argument at the moment is the Coonagh - Moyross link and it's benefit to Limerick.

banie01

Attached are 2 admittedly hurried maps.
1 showing a close view of the Moyross - LIT border.

The other a broader view of the area with Moyross outlined in red.
The blue line is the only area it borders on LIT, a residential street with houses backing onto the LIT green area.

There is no blocked access from Moyross into LIT, I've outlined the blocked and controlled access from Moyross to Woodview and the OCR.
Opening even just pedestrian access to LIT would involve knocking homes.
For what gain?

Now look at the distance between that access, LIT and the OCR itself!
How does this improve anyone's in Moyross access to transport and social inclusion?

Opening Moyross to LIT as a panacea, is specious bullshît.

I think an appreciation of the size of Moyross, the spread of its population and the actual geographic isolation is needed before the "LIT is blocked, open that up" argument can be appreciated for the nonsense it is.

breezy1985

Maybe a deal with Thomond College and a path built from their Moyross entrance to LIT but im not sure you would even fit a path behind the goals and the next spot would be Shanabooly. A road from Moyross to Caherdavin would really help too

banie01

breezy1985 wrote: »

Maybe a deal with Thomond College and a path built from their Moyross entrance to LIT but im not sure you would even fit a path behind the goals and the next spot would be Shanabooly. A road from Moyross to Caherdavin would really help too

It's controlled access to ensure that liability is limited to students and a deal is very unlikely.
It was generally open until late 90's but litigation and insurance costs put paid to that.

A road to Caherdavin would be very useful, point is it's already practically built with all the major engineering done.
But now it seems that it's been cancelled.

I don't live in Moyross, but I did for a short while.
I grew up in Ballynanty and know the area and in particular the LIT border areas well.
1st home my 1st wife had was Moyross, and it was where she grew up.
It's where we lived when my son was born.
I still live relatively close by, indeed within the cachement area the proposed Moyross link road would serve.
For one thing it'd make it a hell of a lot easier for me to go to Tesco

I know the area, and I know many of the people living there.
The access issues to Woodview have long rankled but the idea that any access to LIT can offer the access that the road long waited for can?
Is ludicrous and needs to be called out for what it is.
A sop to green issues, that will leave one of the most deprived areas of the country no better off than in 2007 when the Fitzgerald report called for the road and funding was in place.
Leaving the link road unbuilt, will only enflame social isolation in Moyross and add fuel to new anti-social cycles.

Brennans Row

The Minister has indicated that he will meet with officials from Limerick City and County Council in the near future to agree measures to deliver improved connectivity to and from Moyross. (Limerick Leader)

He is not grasping the whole picture here, the Clare County Council has a major role too for a coherent development of the greater urban area that is located 3 KM from the city centre. (See previous post)

Another example here is the UL Campus on the Clare side of the Shannon river.

Map source: (GeoHive)

phog

banie01 wrote: »

There is no blocked access from Moyross into LIT

You need to tell the local Green councillors this because they're deflecting all attention away from Minister Ryan by claiming LIT have had a wall constructed to block access between itself and Moyross, they're almost suggesting that by opening pedestrian access there it would solve the problems of Moyross

A2LUE42

banie01 wrote: »

There is controlled pedestrian access via college avenue to Thomond College.

It was only when I saw the map I realised that this was not the UL Thomond College that you were referring to.

banie01

phog wrote: »

You need to tell the local Green councillors this because they're deflecting all attention away from Minister Ryan by claiming LIT have had a wall constructed to block access between itself and Moyross, they're almost suggesting that by opening pedestrian access there it would solve the problems of Moyross

They aren't replying apparently our local Green TD is on the radio in the morning.

There are walls blocking access from Ballynanty and from Mayorstone.

I also had a look at one of the greens councillors "photo-journalism" of the walls around Moyross.
Yes, they are there and they need to be opened up.

I defy anyone however to show me the wall that can be removed between LIT and Moyross that makes access magical, immediate and practical?

A2LUE42 wrote: »

It was only when I saw the map I realised that this was not the UL Thomond College that you were referring to.

People of my age would call it St Nessans
There are far too many "Thomonds" in Limerick at this stage

breezy1985

phog wrote: »

You need to tell the local Green councillors this because they're deflecting all attention away from Minister Ryan by claiming LIT have had a wall constructed to block access between itself and Moyross, they're almost suggesting that by opening pedestrian access there it would solve the problems of Moyross

Ya Ide say talking about a wall in Moyross deflects loads of attention away from the actions of a cabinet minister