Limerick Northern Distributor Road Plan

breezy1985

Crystalsun wrote: »

Hi all,




First up ,I'm not a Green party supporter nor would I ever consider it. However , I'm glad the breaks have been put on this following reasons :

1. Infrastructure (in this case roads) on their own do not bring jobs or fix social problems ( car loads of peer reviewed research on this)

2. With the amount of time that was spent planning and designing this in the last 14 years , it's shocking that the road does not even show how it integrates with plans in the area. Transport Oriented Development is international practice but its obviously over their heads. What were LCCCCC and Regeneration team doing all this time ???? A three year old could have drawn the road.


3. More roads might address a traffic congestion problem for 5 hours of the 168 in the week ( none exists in Limerick btw) but you'll need more roads later.


Maybe this blip will get them to cop on and build something thats going to work and really make a difference on the North side .

How about moving the Parnell Train station to Moyross and building a lightrail / electroc trolley bus alongside the dual carriageway to Shannon.

Why would you move the train station out of the centre of town. Thats nuts

None of your points say why it's a bad idea
It won't bring jobs or fix social problems but won't make them worse either and it only fixes the traffic problem for 5 hours a day is a lot better than 0 hours a day.

Moyross doesn't need loads of business to survive it's not an island. Limerick is a small city so giving Moyross good access to the jobs and factories already open would do

banie01

Crystalsun wrote: »

Hi all,




First up ,I'm not a Green party supporter nor would I ever consider it. However , I'm glad the breaks have been put on this following reasons :

....

How about moving the Parnell Train station to Moyross and building a lightrail / electroc trolley bus alongside the dual carriageway to Shannon.

Sure, let's reorientate the entire city!
Place our main station in a residential field 3km from the city centre and then let's make that light rail a monorail that links directly to M&S!

That's a winner!

A doozy of a 1st post, are you sure about not being a green?
Because you certainly sound like one.

A2LUE42

Seems the FF boys are holding an online meeting on the topic tomorrow night.


Cathal Crowe and Willie O'Dea TD will be hosting a meeting tomorrow evening on the long-running LNDR debacle.
They plan to 'update you on where this project is at currently and do our best to answer any queries you have so please do join us.'

To register, please email:
10februarymeeting@gmail.com

Yikes, that image is bigger than expected!

Crystalsun

banie01 wrote: »

Sure, let's reorientate the entire city!
Place our main station in a residential field 3km from the city centre and then let's make that light rail a monorail that links directly to M&S!

That's a winner!

A doozy of a 1st post, are you sure about not being a green?
Because you certainly sound like one.

I apologise for posting a doozy post. Please forgive me.

Crystalsun

breezy1985 wrote: »

Why would you move the train station out of the centre of town. Thats nuts

None of your points say why it's a bad idea
It won't bring jobs or fix social problems but won't make them worse either and it only fixes the traffic problem for 5 hours a day is a lot better than 0 hours a day.

Moyross doesn't need loads of business to survive it's not an island. Limerick is a small city so giving Moyross good access to the jobs and factories already open would do

Well I haven't said it's straight out a bad idea. I accept your point regarding access but it doesn't need to be a dual carriageway to achieve this. Where are all the cars coming from in the future? Roads don't bring them , Factories do. And factories don't come because of roads. Factories come because of wastewater treatment capacities ( maxed out at moment) cheap water supply , cheap electricity, and and technically educated workforce ( not humanities graduates of which we have our quota) So instead of spending money on roads to nowhere , we need to spend it on the wastewater treatment plants and water treatment plants , reducing cost of electricity and sparking up the practically non existent apprenticeship training schools.

banie01

Crystalsun wrote: »

Well I haven't said it's straight out a bad idea. I accept your point regarding access but it doesn't need to be a dual carriageway to achieve this. Where are all the cars coming from in the future? Roads don't bring them , Factories do. And factories don't come because of roads. Factories come because of wastewater treatment capacities ( maxed out at moment) cheap water supply , cheap electricity, and and technically educated workforce ( not humanities graduates of which we have our quota) So instead of spending money on roads to nowhere , we need to spend it on the wastewater treatment plants and water treatment plants , reducing cost of electricity and sparking up the practically non existent apprenticeship training schools.

The residents of Moyross, Caherdavin, Woodview, Meelick, Knocknalisheen and other parts of North Limerick and South Clare won't be too receptive of your description.

Rather than bang on about your thoughts on wastewater?
Could you outline your specific objections to the road as planned?
Why do you feel that residents of the Knocknalisheen DP centre, should continue to travel on poorly paved and unlit roads with no footpaths, no cycle lane and no bus service?

Crystalsun

banie01 wrote: »

The residents of Moyross, Caherdavin, Woodview, Meelick, Knocknalisheen and other parts of North Limerick and South Clare won't be too receptive of your description.

Rather than bang on about your thoughts on wastewater?
Could you outline your specific objections to the road as planned?
Why do you feel that residents of the Knocknalisheen DP centre, should continue to travel on poorly paved and unlit roads with no footpaths, no cycle lane and no bus service?

The end of the planned road terminates at a roundabout in the middle of a field which is not an address. Unless they're giving planning permission to build houses on roundabouts aswell.

And futhermore the people in the DP centre should be living in houses like the rest of us. Thats where road money should be spent .

Cookiemunster

Crystalsun wrote: »

The end of the planned road terminates at a roundabout in the middle of a field.

And futhermore the people in the DP centre should be living in houses like the rest of us. Thats where road money should be spent .

The planned road ends on a roundabout on the Knockalisheen Road. If your going to argue against this roads, get your facts right.

banie01

Crystalsun wrote: »

The end of the planned road terminates at a roundabout in the middle of a field.

And futhermore the people in the DP centre should be living in houses like the rest of us. Thats where road money should be spent .

You may want to go back and recheck your map and the actual routes.

As for those in DP, I don't disagree they should be housed in far better conditions.
But, I'm sure you'd agree that until such time as we have sufficient housing stock that it's not fair to expect them to risk their lives travelling from accommodation in Knocknalisheen along poor and unlit roads to Limerick or elsewhere by foot, bike or car.

Your "I'm not a green but!" Is falling a little flat tbh.
Why do you feel the project signed off originally by John Gormley, with amendments requested by ABP and included in the PFG that the Greens signed up for should be suspended?

What alternative can you offer that would offer as immediate an improvement to the geographic isolation of Moyross?
Why is it ok to continue with deliberate isolation of one of the most deprived parts of the country?

Why is it acceptable to limit the road to 2/3s of the
original plan, and turn Moyross itself into a ratrun?
It should also be noted, that a stunted build isn't an option, as the road must be built as planned or put on hold for a new planning application.

Running main road levels of traffic through one of the largest housing estates in Ireland?
Rather than utilising the planned route of road improvement and realignments via Knocknalisheen?

Why would it be appropriate to run heavy traffic past a large primary school?

Crystalsun

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The planned road ends on a roundabout on the Knockalisheen Road. If your going to argue against this roads, get your facts right.

Thank you , Mea Culpa. 6 roundabouts in total (5 new ones). I got lost my bearings :-) I see Galway replaced all theirs with traffic lights recently. Terrible decision for off peak traffic. When time comes hopefully they just put peak time working lights on these......if the road goes ahead that is.

Cookiemunster

Crystalsun wrote: »

Thank you , Mea Culpa. 6 roundabouts in total (5 new ones). I got lost my bearings :-) I see Galway replaced all theirs with traffic lights recently. Terrible decision for off peak traffic. When time comes hopefully they just put peak time working lights on these......if the road goes ahead that is.

Including the one built next to Tesco there are a total of 4 roundabouts on the mainline of this scheme. Seriously, have you any clue what you're talking about?

phog

Crystalsun wrote: »

The end of the planned road terminates at a roundabout in the middle of a field which is not an address. Unless they're giving planning permission to build houses on roundabouts aswell.

And futhermore the people in the DP centre should be living in houses like the rest of us. Thats where road money should be spent .

The LNDR is supposed to be built in phases, Phase 1 has gone through the planning, public consultation and tendering processes then at the 11th hour the Greens have decided to partially complete Phase 1 ending at a point in the middle of a field but connecting to a road in Moyross

As I've said a few times but it's worth pointing out again, this will route all users of the new road through a residential area rather than routing the majority of the road users through a non residential road.

Cookiemunster

Ryan has backed down.
https://twitter.com/LimerickCouncil/status/1359439359406206980

phog

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Ryan has backed down.
https://twitter.com/LimerickCouncil/status/1359439359406206980

Given the backlash it was always going to happen. They really lost ground on this.

banie01

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Ryan has backed down.
https://twitter.com/LimerickCouncil/status/1359439359406206980

phog wrote: »

Given the backlash it was always going to happen. They really lost ground on this.

I am delighted for the people of the Northside and of Moyross in particular.

stefanovich

banie01 wrote: »

I am delighted for the people of the Northside and of Moyross in particular.

I am delighted that the Green Party got bad press. They deserve it.

johnnyryan89

Is there a reason that phase one only goes as far as the Knockalisheen rd? Wouldn't it have been better if the new road joined up with the R463 and taking traffic from South Clare away from the city or using Parteen as a rat run.

Cookiemunster

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Is there a reason that phase one only goes as far as the Knockalisheen rd? Wouldn't it have been better if the new road joined up with the R463 and taking traffic from South Clare away from the city or using Parteen as a rat run.

It was originally conceived by Regeneration as a means to open up Moyross rather than as part of any LNDR. That was tacked on later. So any further extension will be part of that plan.

mitresize5

Serious climb down but at least they have seen sense.

Door step message from Brian Leddin at the next general election

'I always wanted the road, I was working away behind the scenes on Minister Ryan to make sure it happened'

Pure Willie O Dea territory :-)

phog

mitresize5 wrote: »

Door step message from Brian Leddin at the next general election

'I always wanted the road, I was working away behind the scenes on Minister Ryan to make sure it happened'

Pure Willie O Dea territory :-)

I'd say he'll take in on the chin from areas where he didn't pick up huge votes and from core Green voters he'll be able to say I was against road but FF/FG pushed us to a U turn and the backslapping will continue.

Cookiemunster

mitresize5 wrote: »

Serious climb down but at least they have seen sense.

Door step message from Brian Leddin at the next general election

'I always wanted the road, I was working away behind the scenes on Minister Ryan to make sure it happened'

Pure Willie O Dea territory :-)

The Post has quoted an 'unnamed colleague from another government party' saying that Ryan was forced by the Taoiseach and Tainaiste to back track. Make no mistake, this turnaround has nothing to do with the Greens wanted.

mitresize5

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The Post has quoted an 'unnamed colleague from another government party' saying that Ryan was forced by the Taoiseach and Tainaiste to back track. Make no mistake, this turnaround has nothing to do with the Greens wanted.

oh absolutely - B Leddins posts on the very early part of this thread show his exact feelings on this road.

A2LUE42

Had a look back at post #1

I think we should have a spot prize for the first person to post who was not born when the thread started. :-) It is going on long enough.

Boscoirl

A2LUE42 wrote: »

Had a look back at post #1

I think we should have a spot prize for the first person to post who was not born when the thread started. :-) It is going on long enough.

The project is only 8 years behind schedule.

Mc Love

Dillie O'Wea was on drivetime earlier and said that the final phase of the LNDR will have to have its route changed as he and a number of colleagues had concerns over the proposed route

jpharvey

phog wrote: »

I'd say he'll take in on the chin from areas where he didn't pick up huge votes and from core Green voters he'll be able to say I was against road but FF/FG pushed us to a U turn and the backslapping will continue.

There's no way he'll be elected again. No way. He and his colleagues/advisors seriously underestimated the anger in Moyross about it and assumed, as the build the road grassroots twitter pointed out, that they knew better than the poors about the whole fiasco.
The local Green Councillor's refusal to engage with them as well will also cost her her seat imh.

mastershake

https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/commercial/arid-40061360.html

Just a reminder to everyone of what is in store once this road is built. Lands north of the proposed road will be developed on and an estate with 500 homes will be constructed on the current green belt paving the way for more sprawl towards Clare.

I am in favour of building the road (always have) so long as it provides access to the current community but also importantly ensures a boundary / green belt between it and the border with Clare. We will be repeating the same mistakes if these developments are allowed proceed and will eventually lead to the same issues of vehicle congestion etc.

Mc Love

jpharvey wrote: »

The local Green Councillor's refusal to engage with them as well will also cost her her seat imh.

That is absolute lies

breezy1985

jpharvey wrote: »

There's no way he'll be elected again. No way. He and his colleagues/advisors seriously underestimated the anger in Moyross about it and assumed, as the build the road grassroots twitter pointed out, that they knew better than the poors about the whole fiasco.
The local Green Councillor's refusal to engage with them as well will also cost her her seat imh.

Very few outside Moyross give a toss about anything happening round there. This is a non issue for the areas that voted Leddin in

mastershake wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/commercial/arid-40061360.html

Just a reminder to everyone of what is in store once this road is built. Lands north of the proposed road will be developed on and an estate with 500 homes will be constructed on the current green belt paving the way for more sprawl towards Clare.

That land is Caherdavin and the piece of road linking Coonagh Cross to the Old Cratloe Rd. was never in doubt so the green light for the 2 access roads for Moyross have nothing what so ever to do with this.


Even without the road its likely that the Caherdavin to Redgate stretch of road was going to continue to develop. i would much prefer that development was concentrated on all the derelict sites in the city centre first though but sadly Irish people cant seem to adjust away from the American picket fence dream and start looking to Europe for city living

stefanovich

jpharvey wrote: »

There's no way he'll be elected again. No way. He and his colleagues/advisors seriously underestimated the anger in Moyross about it and assumed, as the build the road grassroots twitter pointed out, that they knew better than the poors about the whole fiasco.
The local Green Councillor's refusal to engage with them as well will also cost her her seat imh.

Typical Green middle class “we know better than the poor people” attitude. Hate them.