Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Dub13

Here is an intresting post on IK about this...

****

They won't change it, read this for a strt, just not logical, not logistical, if theirs such a word.

They'd have to print and issue new tickets.
The new ground and police department would have to allocate policing and stewarding/ground staff resources.
Our stewards and Merseyside police would have to travel and meet with the police and stewards.
The UEFA family would have to change hotels (probably what they're doing now till Sunday - someone check hotel prices for Valencia arent going up!)
The TV companies would have to reschedule.
The teams themselves would have to arrange hotels and transport.
There would be thousands of fans all trying to get aboard the same train from Madrid to Valencia on the day of the game.
The official charter planes would have to reschedule an arrival time/airport/bus transfers.
Up to 60,000 fans picking up tickets on the day of the game and giving them information on trams/metros/entrances and blocks in the ground.
Even if they started distributing tickets at 9am until 8pm that's issuing up to 90 tickets a minute from a hotel in Valencia (or 1.5 tickets per second)

The only things they could do without doing the above and causing mayhem would be to :

1) Play the game behind closed doors and refund ALL fans
2) Let the game go ahead and issue the ban for the following 2 games in the CL/UEFA cup.

Jazzy

sometimes i really wonder if UEFA is in fact just a big joke and at the end of it someone will probably turn around and go "gotcha"

monkey9

Ultimately though, just in footballing terms, its good news for Liverpool. Not just for the next match, but also for topping the group.

DeadSkin

D'oh, wrong thread!!!! Nothin' to see here!!!

mike65

Dub13 wrote: »

2) Let the game go ahead and issue the ban for the following 2 games in the CL/UEFA cup.

This is so obvious it clearly escaped thier attention.

Mike

Mr Alan

you would have thought they would have announced it was week-at least to give people enough time to be able to make alternative arrangements etc etc.

then you remember that Platini was in Liverpool last week, and it makes sense that the cowardly pack of weasels wouldn't have wanted el presidento to hit a load of flack on his visit.

OFFICIALS at Uefa last night issued an apology to 3,000 Liverpool FC fans after throwing their travel plans into chaos by switching the club’s next Champions League clash away from Madrid.

Liverpool’s opponents, Atletico Madrid, have been banned from playing within 300km of the Spanish capital and have to pay a £120,000 fine following racist crowd behaviour in their Marseilles tie earlier this month. That means, just eight days before the match, thousands of Liverpool fans have booked flights and hotels costing tens of thous-ands of pounds to and from the wrong city.

Uefa spokesman William Gaillard apologised to fans last night while UK sports minister Gerry Sutcliffe demanded the fine levied on Madrid should be used to help ease the financial burden being placed on LFC supporters.

Mr Sutcliffe said: “I would like to see Uefa use the fine paid by Atletico to help the Liverpool supporters get to the match.
“The decision to move the match at this late stage will play havoc with Liverpool fans’ plans and put them out of pocket.“

Speaking from Geneva, Uefa spokesman William Gaillard – long pilloried by Liverpool fans after several run-ins – issued the apology, but there was no immediate pledge to sort out the mess.
Mr Gaillard said: “At this moment in time, we’re in touch with Liverpool and we’re trying to make sure that the damage to the interests of Liverpool fans is as small as possible.”

Atletico Madrid have until 11am on Friday to lodge an appeal, but the Uefa Appeals Body are not due to sit to discuss the matter until Sunday.
This could leave some fans with little more than 24 hours to get arrangements in place.

Mr Gaillard indicated Valen-cia’s Mestalla stadium, which holds 55,000, would be the most probable venue. But Atletico Madrid are thought to be unlikely to support this idea.

Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez was manager at Valencia and is still regarded as a hero in the city, meaning Madrid would effectively give up home advantage.

Mr Gaillard said: “We’re also trying to persuade Atletico Madrid to designate an alterna-tive stadium now, rather than wait for the possible appeal to be decided.We are pushing them hard, and we’ve told them this is not the time to play hardball.”
The spokesman said Uefa president Michel Platini, who visited Liverpool last week, was personally involved in trying to help fans.
But he said the fine could only be used for Uefa’s social responsibility fund, to help disabled charities, youth programmes and environmental campaigns.
He could not suggest any practical measures that could help fans make it to the game or cover their losses

Gaillard has previously infuriated Liverpool with his initial analysis of the chaos at the ticket gate in the Athens Olympic Stadium by pointing the finger firmly at the behaviour of supporters, but last night he claimed to be putting Liverpool fans first.

Should Valencia be nominated, thousands of fans will have to try to make the 11.48pm train service to Madrid to get home, or to hotels.

Away fans are traditionally held behind at the end of the game and are likely to be stranded without contingency plans being put in place.

Flight carriers like Easyjet confirmed flights to Madrid from Liverpool John Lennon Airport next week were full, and that fans were hanging on until the appeal decision was made before attempting to reorganise.

Monarch’s charter flight for 230 fans is also going ahead at this stage.

Fans like Liverpool city councillor Peter Millea booked their travel more than a month ago, and are now calling on Liverpool FC to use their influence to make changes.
Cllr Millea said: “This could be the first European game since 1995 that I will miss.

“Liverpool needs to start flexing its muscle as a club. They should be threatening to pull out, but it’s not their style.

“If this had been Manchester United or Chelsea, would Uefa have done this?

“There is no logic. When those two teams played in Moscow, Uefa said they could not change the venue to a British stadium because fans had already made travel arrangements.
“However, they’ve done it to us now.
“It gives the impression that Uefa’s making it up as they go along.”
Liverpool has written to Uefa to express strong concerns.

Rick Parry, chief executive, said: “To say the decision is a bit late in the day, is to put it mildly.
“Uefa have to take fans’ needs into account when making a final decision on the game.”

But last night the club refused to add to this statement, a spokesman simply saying: “We can’t say anything until we know where the game is being played.”

Karmafaerie

Melion wrote: »

Got sorted for Wigan tickets, delighted.

Might see you over for a few pints then!:D

whatawaster

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N161689081015-1125.htm

Pacheco is a Real Madrid fan. That's him gone then if he becomes the player everyone thinks he will.

Mr Alan

reserves lost 4-3 to Everton last night.

some of the touches from Pachecho were unreal.

and i wouldnt worry about Pachecho leaving if we got a few animal years out of him, although with this extract:

Hang on, you're a Real Madrid fan but went to Barcelona? Yes, I went three days to Barcelona and three to Madrid and I preferred Barcelona.

I dont think he is a hardcore fan or anything

mike65

Some Kop Kulture from the bbc in 1964

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNboU_PbZMY

Mike

Karmafaerie

whatawaster wrote: »

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N161689081015-1125.htm

Pacheco is a Real Madrid fan. That's him gone then if he becomes the player everyone thinks he will.

Don't think so.
All the young kids truely adore Rafa.
It'd take a lot to move them.
Sure half of them will move on, but they wouldn't try and hold the club to ransom, I don't think.
If they're moving, they'll make sure we benifit from it.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

reserves lost 4-3 to Everton last night.

some of the touches from Pachecho were unreal.

and i wouldnt worry about Pachecho leaving if we got a few animal years out of him, although with this extract:



I dont think he is a hardcore fan or anything

His flick and control at the end was sublime. It would have been some goal.

Duran looked quality i thought.

Mr Alan

yea he looked good.

that flick at the end was unreal alright.

ArmaniJeanss

If we only had 1 point after 2 games, and desperately needed a win to get through the group, There'd be far less complaints about the accept the change of venue as it would be a disadvantage for Athletico / advantage for us.

Not quite sure what UEFA can be expected to do. Dub13s suggestion that this games goes ahead as originally planned with their next 2 games being moved sounds initially good, but it goes against precedent - its always been a rule that the these sorts of bans (whether they are players/teams/fans etc) have to be served immediately, there can't be any cherry picking of fixtures.

Its harsh on Liverpool fans, but ultimately its the fairest decision.

deisedevil

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Don't think so.
All the young kids truely adore Rafa.
It'd take a lot to move them.
Sure half of them will move on, but they wouldn't try and hold the club to ransom, I don't think.
If they're moving, they'll make sure we benifit from it.

My god your naive if you really think that!

Mr Alan

no its not.

the ban should be for games that are not yet on sale to away fans-by doing that, the offending club (athletico) recieve the exact same punishment, but there is no fans who are severly put out.

When Chelsea/Utd wanted to change the venue of the final last year to England, Uefas reasoning in not doing it was it would be unfair to put out fans who had already made travel arrangements....wat a difference a few months makes.

Karmafaerie

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

If we only had 1 point after 2 games, and desperately needed a win to get through the group, There'd be far less complaints about the accept the change of venue as it would be a disadvantage for Athletico / advantage for us.

Not quite sure what UEFA can be expected to do. Dub13s suggestion that this games goes ahead as originally planned with their next 2 games being moved sounds initially good, but it goes against precedent - its always been a rule that the these sorts of bans (whether they are players/teams/fans etc) have to be served immediately, there can't be any cherry picking of fixtures.

Its harsh on Liverpool fans, but ultimately its the fairest decision.

But, as has been pointed out, it also goes against UEFA precident.
They wouldn't change the CL final last year, as it would disrupt the plans of traveling fans.

Karmafaerie

deisedevil wrote: »

My god your naive if you really think that!

Spoken like a true Man (Ronaldo loves the club, not the money) UTD supporter!;)

Of course most players are all about the money, but not teh type that Rafa goes for.
He chooses loyal players, and instills even more loyalty in them.
In the 4 and a bit years that he's been here, name one player he's brought in, who screwed the club over?

machiavellianme

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Spoken like a true Man (Ronaldo loves the club, not the money) UTD supporter!;)

Of course most players are all about the money, but not teh type that Rafa goes for.
He chooses loyal players, and instills even more loyalty in them.
In the 4 and a bit years that he's been here, name one player he's brought in, who screwed the club over?

Bellamy. He couldnt get a kick in a horsebox for us

Cyrus

yeah

and he screwed the club over how?

machiavellianme

By being rubbish. We couldve had a decent striker instead. Hell, even Owen wouldve done a better job (luckily Rafa didnt buy him back)

mike65

By being rubbish? Thats Rafas fault for not spotting it surely? (if for a minute we assume Bellamy to be rubbish).

In other speculative news - Alonso to Barca with Yaya Toure in return.

Mike

Karmafaerie

machiavellianme wrote: »

Bellamy. He couldnt get a kick in a horsebox for us

And we bought him for 6 mill, sold him for 7, after he scored a goal for us in the Nou Camp!

machiavellianme

ok Nunez then. What did he ever do for us?

Melion

Was part of the Owen deal which Rafa reluctantly accepted, didnt have much choice. IIRC he wanted JuanFran instead(the young winger) but was told where to go.

Mr Alan

Owen cost Newcastle 16million.
When we were in for him, it wasnt instead of Bellamy (who cost 6) it seems to have been more a choice between Owen and Torres-personally, i think rafa made the right call

rosboy

machiavellianme wrote: »

By being rubbish. We couldve had a decent striker instead. Hell, even Owen wouldve done a better job (luckily Rafa didnt buy him back)

Think you're missing Karmafaerie's point. His reference to screwing the club over was in relation to loyalty, attitude and respect. Players that Rafa has brought in and pregressed haven't abandoned or disrespected the club. Crouch left, but that was a mutual agreement.

By contrast look at Ronaldo at Utd. Fergie developed him into one of the best players in the world (I feel so dirty for saying that), yet during the summer he disrespected the club and its supporters by trying to leave once his dream team came knocking.

Look at Drogba ay Chelsea. He's always on the brink of leaving.

Wenger turned Hleb and Flamini into world class players and they fecked off.

Spurs brought in Berbatov and he showed no loyalty to teh club that made him a star.

What ever you want to say about Bellamy, he always gave every thing he had....even of that wasn't good enough

rosboy

mike65 wrote: »

In other speculative news - Alonso to Barca with Yaya Toure in return.

Mike

And Agger to AC Milan has popped up today.

ArmaniJeanss

Karmafaerie wrote: »

But, as has been pointed out, it also goes against UEFA precident.
They wouldn't change the CL final last year, as it would disrupt the plans of traveling fans.

Mr Alan wrote: »

When Chelsea/Utd wanted to change the venue of the final last year to England, Uefas reasoning in not doing it was it would be unfair to put out fans who had already made travel arrangements.....

No it wasn't. You are believing what that that Liverpool councillor said in the linked article.

The main reason UEFA put forward was that the Moscow authorities had spent 12 months putting into place facilities and arrangements for this match.

Paulw

rosboy wrote: »

And Agger to AC Milan has popped up today.

I can't see Rafa letting Agger go. He is there to be the new heart of the defence. Himself and Skrtel will be the new Carragher and Hypia.

whatawaster

Owen for a couple of million in january wouldn't be the worst move in the world. I doubt he'd be willing to be rotated though. Not with his precious England place to win back.
I for one would welcome him back, great player and i think he has been very harshly treated by some fans. He doesn't have his old pace, but he always scores goals. Keane, Torres and Owen would be a quality strikeforce.

whatawaster

Paulw wrote: »

I can't see Rafa letting Agger go. He is there to be the new heart of the defence. Himself and Skrtel will be the new Carragher and Hypia.

Agreed. We have to keep Agger, i cannot wait to see him and Skrtel play together.

Mr Alan

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The main reason UEFA put forward was that the Moscow authorities had spent 12 months putting into place facilities and arrangements for this match.

how Uefa gonna organise security,transfer of fans,stewarding,segregartion of fan the public transport system including airports etc, stadium control etc in 7 days when they very clearly couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery?

DeadSkin

Agger's goin' nowhere. Rafa said recently that they hope to sort out a contract extension for him.
On Owen, wouldn't take him back. Injury prone & money hungry. Only way I'd have him back at Anfield would be on a pay as you play basis, which would never happen.

Karmafaerie

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

No it wasn't. You are believing what that that Liverpool councillor said in the linked article.

The main reason UEFA put forward was that the Moscow authorities had spent 12 months putting into place facilities and arrangements for this match.

No, I'm quoting a Liverpool counciler, who was quoting a UEFA rep.
Bit of a difference.
One of the reason given by UEFA, was the impact it would have on fans.

UEFA knew exactly what they were doing yesterday.
They really just don't care.

whatawaster

DeadSkin wrote: »

Agger's goin' nowhere. Rafa said recently that they hope to sort out a contract extension for him.
On Owen, wouldn't take him back. Injury prone & money hungry. Only way I'd have him back at Anfield would be on a pay as you play basis, which would never happen.

but for the two or three million that's been talked about would we get anyone better?
Why is he money hungry?

ArmaniJeanss

Mr Alan wrote: »

how Uefa gonna organise security,transfer of fans,stewarding,segregartion of fan the public transport system including airports etc, stadium control etc in 7 days when they very clearly couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery?

As I understand it, that is all the responsibility of the home team / home police force in these European ties.
Athletico will still have this responsibility even though its a neutral venue because its still their home fixture.

DeadSkin

whatawaster wrote: »

but for the two or three million that's been talked about would we get anyone better?
Why is he money hungry?

He left Liverpool with a year left on his contract. He couldn't agree terms with Liverpool on a new contract so off he went to Real for £8m + Mr.Nunez.

When he left Real for Newcastle, we were supposed to be in talks with him at the time but again wages came into it iirc.

I'm sure he was looking for an improved contract at Newcastle recently.

Malice

Surely Owen wouldn't warrant a starting place ahead of Torres or Keane? He also wouldn't play on the right instead of Kuyt or the left ahead of Babel or Riera so at best he'd be a substitute. If he was stuck to the subs bench that would be the end of his England career so it's never going to happen.

One of the main reasons he went to Newcastle was because he'd walk into the team if fit. While that was the case at Liverpool when he left in 2004, that's not the way it is anymore at the Liverpool of 2008.

jesus_thats_gre

whatawaster wrote: »

but for the two or three million that's been talked about would we get anyone better?
Why is he money hungry?

You really wouldn't. If Owen can be picked up for a few million, he would be a great addition to the squad. You can say what you want about him but put him on the pitch and he will score goals. Torres, Keane and Owen would be sweet and reduce the effect of Torres ever picking up an injury - god forbid!!

missingtime

Why do we need another striker?

machiavellianme

We dont. At most, we need a decent right winger and wing backs on both flanks.

Malice

missingtime wrote: »

Why do we need another striker?

Because obviously Torres, Keane, Kuyt, Babel, N'Gog, Voronin, Nemeth, Pacheco and Lindfield aren't enough.

Owen won't come back to Liverpool to be a squad player or sit on the bench so it's not going to happen. It's just the usual paper talk.

machiavellianme

malice_ wrote: »

Because obviously Torres, Keane, Kuyt, Babel, N'Gog, Voronin, Nemeth, Pacheco and Lindfield aren't enough.

Owen won't come back to Liverpool to be a squad player or sit on the bench so it's not going to happen. It's just the usual paper talk.

Thats only 9. We need one more to field a full set of outfield players in our new 1-10 formation

zing

missingtime wrote: »

Why do we need another striker?

cos it's nearly time for Torres to be put out to graze on RW. First Cisse, then Kuyt - has to be Torres turn soon

missingtime

malice_ wrote: »

Owen won't come back to Liverpool to be a squad player or sit on the bench so it's not going to happen. It's just the usual paper talk.

E X C E L L E N T

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

....how about it Torres and Keane are bot hsubsituted followig injuries...?

From the Beeb:

2029: Panic stations for Liverpool fans - Fernando Torres was taken off after 16 minutes of their qualifier against Belgium tonight before being replaced by Cesc Fabregas. It is reportedly just a tweak, we'll let you know more as and when we get it.

And you know more about Keane that I do, becuase I haven;t managed to find a workign stream for the game yet!

mike65

Keane is still upright as far as I know.

Mike

kaimera

****, just heard that on tv there a second ago about Nando

Hope it isn't too bad...keane best be able to step up.

mike65

Babel is off injured as well! Ngog and Kuyt for Wigan.

Mike