Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Dont be at yourself

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Hmm interesting. I appreciate what you are saying about Kuyt's workrate etc but he just isn't anywhere near good enough. You are also forgetting that Gerard generally puts in quite a bit of effort and is about 100 times better technically.

I really can't accept an argument that suggests that:

Torres
Gerard

---

Kuyt

is better than:

Torres
Keane----Gerard


I am talking about out very best lineup for the biggest of fixtures. Kuyt is good enough for 85% of our matches.

On paper, Keane is a better footballer than Kuyt. However, in practice, Kuyt has more than earned his place.

---

Torres
Riera-Keane-Gerrard

With this system, we sacrifice Gerrard's excellent link-up with Torres in order to accomodate Keane, who has yet to replicate his Spurs form and is still clearly struggling with his role at Liverpool. Gerrard does play well from the right, but I don't think there's any doubt that his best position is playing off Torres.

Gerrard does have a strong work ethic and he will track back - to an extent - but neither he nor Keane have the engine that Kuyt has. His high-tempo closing down and tracking back sets the tone for the whole defense when we're not in possession. He gives the opposition no time on the ball and makes the job easier for our midfield and fullback.

This same workrate and stamina also means that he finds himself in math-winning positions when more leaden-legged players might have given up the ghost. He has a habit of popping up with a goal when it's late in the game, or when we're chasing it and it's going against us. He's not a player who ever goes missing when the chips are down.

I realise also that the best praise I have given him is all about stamina, workrate and attitude. It's clear that he doesn't have the technique of Gerrard or Keane, nor the finishing or pace of Torres. However, he links up well with our attack, is able to both spot runs and get into positions himself. He's one of our better headers, and he puts in a decent cross.

rosboy

New video from Darren Farley (Liverpool inpersonator):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEC05HsVu9E

rosboy

The Liverpool team in full: Reina, Arbeloa, Dossena, Carragher, Agger, Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard, Riera, Benayoun, Keane.

Subs: Cavalieri, Lucas, Babel, Darby, Pennant, Kuyt, Aurelio.

Not sure of formation. Maybe........

---

Reina

Arbeloa----Carra---Agger---Dossena

---

Mascherano---Alonso

Benayoun----Gerrard

---

Riera

---

Keane

Dont be at yourself

Benayoun in for Kuyt is the only surprise there, really.

That said, I half-expected a few more changes with an eye on the Chelsea game at the weekend.

Tusky

Rafa persists and persists with Kuyt when hes not playing well or scoring goals and then drops him after scoring 4 in five games. Exactly the same thing happened with Crouch. The mind boggles.

Dont be at yourself

Hicks: I'm not selling Reds despite stadium strife

Liverpool co-owner Tom Hicks remains insistent he has no intention of selling the club despite their plans to build a new stadium being thwarted.


Hicks and co-owner George Gillett want a 75,000-seater stadium at Stanley Park to generate the cash to repay their £245million personal debts as well as the £105million tied to Liverpool. The debts stem from the Americans' takeover in 2007.

The global financial crisis has brought a halt to the plans, however, as no bank is in a position to issue further loans to finance a new stadium, and the Americans have been reduced to using Liverpool's profits to pay off the interest on the loans but have not been able to reduce the overall debt.

Despite the situation, Hicks is adamant he does not want to sell up - although should that position change then Sheikh Mohammed, the ruler of Dubai, remains the most likely buyer as he continues to have a personal interest in Liverpool.

A source close to Hicks denied a report saying the investment bank Merrill Lynch have been instructed to find a buyer, maintaining they were merely providing expertise in refinancing the existing debts.

Hicks and Gillett refinanced their debts earlier this year with the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) and that deal is due to expire on January 25, although the Americans will almost certainly exercise an option to extend the deal for a further six months until the end of July.

The source told PA Sport: "Tom is not looking to get out of Liverpool - it is an asset he likes and he doesn't plan an exit.

"They have not engaged Merrill Lynch to sell the club - they have been an adviser of Tom's for 12 months.

"There is an option with RBS coming up to extend [the refinancing deal] by a further six months until July and they will take up that option unless they have agreed another refinancing package before that.''

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=584572&sec=england&campaign=rss&source=soccernet&&cc=5739

Here we go again...

rosboy

Tusky wrote: »

Rafa persists and persists with Kuyt when hes not playing well or scoring goals and then drops him after scoring a brace. Exactly the same thing happened with Crouch. The mind boggles.

Am I right in saying that Kuyt has played all 11 of our games this season? He runs over 11km per game....at a good pace. Thats over four marathons (ignoring training) in the last three months. I think the lad could do with a break;)

mayordenis

Tusky wrote: »

Rafa persists and persists with Kuyt when hes not playing well or scoring goals and then drops him after scoring a brace. Exactly the same thing happened with Crouch. The mind boggles.

It's not actually the same at all to be fair.

Kuyt runs up and down the pitch all day long and breaks his balls for the team.
His confidence should be high and it's more a case of "Kuyt you are doing well, we need you 100% for the big game"

Mr Alan

we have a 20m winger.

his name is Dirk Kuyt.

watching the Euros in the summer, he was among the standout players, or THE standout player for me in that position and would have been delighted to get him if he wasnt already ours

mayordenis

Kuyt is made of win

colly10

He's having a great season alright, seems much better in possession this year

Karmafaerie

I'm one of "Dirk's Digglers"!!!:p

Dirk the Destroyer will break Chelsea's hearts, and unbeaten home record this Sunday.

Oh, and as for Kuyt chipping in with 5 goals a season JTG, he already has 5 this season.;)

zing

I see a bunch of MPs are calling on Gordon Brown to weigh in against RBS to prevent them from refinancing on the basis that failing to build the new stations is delaying the much needed regeneration of the area. Most likely won't come to anything (government aren't going to interfere with the banks unless absolutely necessary) but it's interesting to see some political weight falling against the pair.
http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/10/23/mps-stage-coup-over-new-liverpool-fc-stadium-64375-22099810/

Also Gillet was at the game last night. Wonder if he's hanging around for the rest of the week and taking in the Chelsea game. If so there could be another meeting with SOS on the cards.

mike65

Keane has a strain, thats why he was subbed. Gerrard and Alonso also a little bit knackered apparently. Torres wont be playing Sunday, so it could be thin pickings.

Mike

monkey9

With Keane and Torres out for Sunday (if that is the case), Rafa may go 442. But i was thinking, if he went with the 4-2-3-1 i wonder would he play Alonso further up behind Kuyt as he was fairly effective up there in the European Championships in his rare appearances for Spain.

Reina

Arbeloa Carragher Agger Dossena

Mascherano Lucas

Benayoun/Pennant Alonso Riera

Kuyt

ibh

monkey9 wrote: »

With Keane and Torres out for Sunday (if that is the case), Rafa may go 442. But i was thinking, if he went with the 4-2-3-1 i wonder would he play Alonso further up behind Kuyt as he was fairly effective up there in the European Championships in his rare appearances for Spain.

Reina

Arbeloa Carragher Agger Dossena

Mascherano Lucas

Benayoun/Pennant Alonso Riera

Kuyt

I know people say he can't play in a 4-4-2, but i'm sure Gerrard would get his game!!:pac:

missingtime

Babel will be able to play wont he?

monkey9

ibh wrote: »

I know people say he can't play in a 4-4-2, but i'm sure Gerrard would get his game!!:pac:

Ha ha, I can't believe i left out Gerrard! I forgot all about him!!

Dub13

Yanks May Be forced out by UK Government

Link

GORDON BROWN has been urged to topple the American owners of Liverpool Football Club, in an astonishing “coup bid” by six Merseyside MPs.

The MPs, led by Walton’s Peter Kilfoyle, want the Government – through the part-nationalisation of the Royal Bank of Scotland – to pull the plug on a £350m loan to Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

Their move came as Tom Hicks last night reiterated his desire not to sell Liverpool FC, despite suggestions investment bank Mer-rill Lynch has been instructed to find a buyer for the club.

A source close to the Texan said the bank was merely providing expertise in refinancing the existing debts, adding: “Tom is not looking to get out of Liverpool. It is an asset he likes and he doesn’t plan an exit.

“They have not engaged Merrill Lynch to sell the club. They have been an advisor of Tom’s for 12 months.”

It is believed Hicks and co-owner George Gillett will exercise a six-month extension on loans due in January, but the Mersey MPs believe they can put pressure on RBS to prevent such a move.

If RBS did stop an extension, the MPs – who are furious over the ongoing delay of plans for a new stadium – believe the pair would be forced to sell the club they took over 18 months ago.

Hicks and Gillett announced earlier this month that the Stanley Park scheme was delayed for one year, but it is feared the real hold-up will be much longer.

The city council and LFC are yet to sign an agreed 999-year lease on the ground.

The extraordinary suggestion that ministers should decide whether a loan should be made – and, in consequence, who owns a football club – can only be made because of the unprecedented £37bn banking bail-out.

The crisis involved pumping £20bn into RBS, securing a 60% stake in the bank and, it is argued, the right for ministers to call the shots on lending. Within hours of the rescue, Sir Fred Goodwin, the much-criticised RBS chief executive was forced out and ministers vowed to take places on the bank’s board to steer it through the crisis. Yesterday, Mr Kilfoyle called for that power to include “ensuring that the Royal Bank of Scotland does not renew that credit facility at the end of its current term”.

The Labour backbencher tabled a Parliamentary motion, quickly signed by George Howarth (Knowsley North and Sefton East), Eddie O'Hara (Knowsley South), Louise Ellman (Riverside), Bob Wareing (West Derby) and Derek Twigg (Halton).

It calls on the Government to act because “the American own-ers have failed to deliver a new stadium for Liverpool FC, thereby delaying indefinitely the regener-ation of one of the most needy areas of the country.”

Mr Kilfoyle said: “The Govern-ment is not putting £20bn of tax-payers money into the RBS in order for two foreign nationals to use that money to buy a British institution without putting in any money of their own.

Liverpool fans have already been putting pressure on RBS to call in the loan by threatening to boycott the bank if it does not.

mike65

I think MPs having a say who owns a club is dubious.

Mike

Dub13

mike65 wrote: »

I think MPs having a say who owns a club is dubious.

Mike

Yea I think its a load of crap aswell.

dardoz

still... another tiny thread of hope to cling to

zing

In possibly related/possibly un-related news Zabeel have pulled out of their proposed takeover of Charlton

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11688_4373504,00.html

Dub13

If any of you lot are watching the Chelsea game in Dublin you are more than welcome to pop along to the IrishKop Beers,we are meeting up in Sinnotts on St. Stephens Green it should be a good session.

Mr Alan

The two teams drew on the pitch, but the two groups of fans won. And by a wide margin. No arguments about that. The Atlético de Madrid and Liverpool supporters set a perfect example and for this reason the Atleti organization would like to thank both sets of fans for their exquisite sportsmanship. The attitudes of thousands of followers who focused solely on enjoying the show, respecting all of the ’fair play’ codes, were impeccable. All of the supporters who turned the Vicente Caldéron into a venue where respect for the opposing team and fans trumped all get a ‘10’ for their sportsmanship.

The National Security Forces were deployed in a way seldom done before. The media were hanging on the slightest detail to report. UEFA had warned that they would examine everything that happened at Estadio Vicente Calderón under a magnifying glass. That’s how the Atlético-Liverpool match was presented, apart from any purely football circumstances. And in the end the football ‘fiesta’ was plenary and enjoyed by all thanks to the exemplary and model behavior of the two groups of supporters, both before, during and after the match.

Two similar supporter groups experienced firsthand the great duel that took place on the pitch. Just like Atlético de Madrid’s, the Liverpool fans have a very close and passionate connection with their Club. They also suffered through some tough times, but they never lost their faith. And they never do, just like the ‘rojiblanco’ backers. And that similarity was reflected both inside and outside of the Vicente Calderón. There are so many common threads between the two sides that the empathy was immediate. One set has Fernando Torres as their indisputable idol while the other hasn’t forgotten about him. For this reason, so many jerseys were seen of both clubs with the name and number of the striker on the back.

Other players have also caused the ties between the two institutions to have tightened in recent years. Luis García has made a round-trip between the two squads. He wrapped up a fantastic season at Atlético several years ago, and then several years later became an idol to the Liverpool followers. Now he’s back at Atlético, but they haven’t forgotten about him at Anfield. And the same can be said for Sinama-Pongolle, who played under Rafa Benítez and now forms part of Javier Aguirre’s team. He is still remembered by the red half of Merseyside.



Liverpool supporters began to mingle with the local side’s devotees before the match kicked off. As they began to arrive in Madrid, the British backers began to take hold of the centre of the capital, where the fans of Atlético’s foreign teams tend to congregate. The locals displayed excellent conduct from the first moment, while others acted as top level hosts. All of them had been brought together by a single passion.

The arrival of the Liverpool supporters to the Vicente Calderón took place with complete normalcy. Fans of both teams even shared coaches in the underground, without causing even the slightest incident. The trading of scarves and jerseys, normal between two football teams, was constant between the two groups, leaving the camaraderie existent clear for all to see. In Liverpool’s end, one could see red-and-white striped jerseys and flags, while in the rest of the stadium jerseys of the ‘Reds’ and scarves of the English side could be observed everywhere. It was an atypical image that was worth more than a thousand words.

The encounter began and each set of supporters were dedicated to cheering on their team. They were centred on enjoying a great Champions League match and getting behind their respective squads. Nothing else. Not a single, out-of-place dialectic ‘battle’ from either side. They even joined together in applauding Gerrard, the Liverpool captain, when he left the pitch. They cheered for their own, but so did the Atleti fans, as they valued his hard work and, above all, his incredible skill.

The referee blew the final whistle, but undoubtedly the best gesture of the day was yet to come. The Liverpool supporters were held back in the stands until the vicinity of the stadium was clear. But a group of Atlético fans waited for the Brits to be let out with the best of intentions. This group spontaneously formed a tunnel and the Liverpool supporters were applauded as they left the Vicente Calderón. It was an unforgettable moment. The second half of this friendly rivalry will be played at Anfield in two weeks time and surely it will be even better…

from the Athletico site.

monkey9

Good find there, Al. Yeah, i say on the tv after the match a younG Liverpool fan being allowed to cross over to the Atletico fans and shook hands with one of them. Both sets of supporters applauded each other and i noticed a lot of Atletico fans wearing Liverpool hats.
They are now my new favourite Spanish team!

Dub13

The Way it should be...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF51xmWP7rw

zing

No mention there of the crush at the turnstiles that the Times reported - but then no one else seems to have picked up on it either so it probably wasn't very serious (thankfully).

At the turnstiles, however, there was chaos — almost 1,000 visiting fans were caught up in a frightening crush and refused entry by a heavy-handed police presence. Only the intervention of Liverpool stewards prevented a serious confrontation.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article4996513.ece

Mr Alan

strange report that Zing, my mate who was there was only moaning to me this morning about the fact that there was no turnstiles at all into the away end.

he did say the police tried to keep em out of the stadium for as long as possible and there was a huge build up of people ender the stand before kick off, but no crush.

zing

Hopefully you're mates account is more accurate then and there was no real trouble so.

Mr Alan

tbh, i doubt there was, only the Spanish polices usual trepidation and willingness to get heavy handed at the slightest thing.

After Athleticos recent behaviour, the worlds media was waiting to jump on any indiscretions at this game. And they haven't as there is nothing to jump on.

astrofool

Liverpool fans usually travel well these days, I'd be surprised to see any out of the ordinary incident, hopefully the athletico faithful will have got the message after being threatened with a ban (are they still going to implement a ban now?).

zing

Still doubts over Robbie for Sunday but Gerrard & Alonso are both fine

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N161813081024-1301.htm

mayordenis

I would love to see a top 2 of Kuyt and babel up top -on paper they compliment eachother extremely well

gary the great

Id say the Liverpool/Athletico love in at the end there was mostly due to the mutal love for Nando

mayordenis

liverpool are fairly liked all over spain now, but yes nando was a big part of it.
Also Sinama-Pongolle and Luis Garcia will of helped.

~Rebel~

Aye its funny really the ties that have inadvertently built between the clubs;
Luis, Sinama, Nando and Reina's dad being a legend there too.

zing

GG speaks ... a little. For some reason he's got this notion that the club have somehow benefited from having him & TH about - go figure..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/3255464/Tom-Hicks-and-I-have-been-good-for-Liverpool-insists-George-Gillett-Football.html

mayordenis

Torres, Mascherano, Skrtle, Keane, Reira, Dossena, Babel, lucas, benayoun.

While off the weild they are utter pricks and are running the club into a bonfire.

3 of those players are our 3 most expensive players in our history.

Mr Alan

thats how footballs gone though Mr Mayor. Prices will always rise.

mayordenis

Mr Alan wrote: »

thats how footballs gone though Mr Mayor. Prices will always rise.

no questions about that - but just the fact that our 3 highest value players have been purchased since there arrival - you have to give them the tiniest credit,
Don't get me wrong I want them out but it's a discussion forum and we should see both sides.

I could be wrong but is our top 5 something like

Torres - 20ish
Keane - 20ish
Masch - 18ish
Cisse - 14ish
Alonso - 10.5

~Rebel~

mayordenis wrote: »

no questions about that - but just the fact that our 3 highest value players have been purchased since there arrival - you have to give them the tiniest credit,
Don't get me wrong I want them out but it's a discussion forum and we should see both sides.

I could be wrong but is our top 5 something like

Torres - 20ish
Keane - 20ish
Masch - 18ish
Cisse - 14ish
Alonso - 10.5

i think babel was 11 or 11.5mill sterling as well.

<edit> aye 11.5 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/6285040.stm

Mr Alan

i wont give them an ounce of credit.

i couldnt give a **** if they signed Villa & Messi in the summer.

the simple fact is they made our club into a laughing stock.

our club has taken more money in from runs in the CL and the new television deal than it EVER has, if I owned our club, i could pump money in for players, doesnt mean i'm the right man to own the club.

and remind me, wat was our net spend this summer?

PHB

mayordenis wrote: »

no questions about that - but just the fact that our 3 highest value players have been purchased since there arrival - you have to give them the tiniest credit,
Don't get me wrong I want them out but it's a discussion forum and we should see both sides.

I could be wrong but is our top 5 something like

Torres - 20ish
Keane - 20ish
Masch - 18ish
Cisse - 14ish
Alonso - 10.5

It's easy to buy big when you're just adding more debt to the club. Sure next summer they could go another 100 million in depth and buy Kaka and Messi. Still wouldn't be a good idea and still wouldn't be something you should give them credit for.

mayordenis

That's fine lads I'm not defending them in general - but the simple FACT and neither of you have really gone into facts here is that on the pitch we are a better football team than we were before they took over. I ****ing hate them and I wan them out they make me sick.

But if you can't at least admit that then your eyes are closed.

And Alan don't be thick I'm one of the advocates that we're not spending big ****ing money I'm NOT ****ING ATTACKING YOU. I'm just making a point that what he said is probably correct in that the team is better now. I'm not saying it's there doing but it is correct. you are broken.

PiE

You need to take some ritalin or some sh*t.

The team being better now than before has very little to do with G+H - in fact, I'd argue that the team is better now despite G+H.

raven136

liverpool fc has thrived despite tweedle dee and dum and because our manager decided not to walk away when he was publicly undermined.

The "owners" have saddled liverpool with a huge debt that they cannot repay and have banks unlikely to restructure the loan.

The earnigs from a few years of great runs in the champions league were not taking advantage of and players of the calibre of masch,torres and keane cannot mask poor ownership.

Any liverpool fan who admires them for these signings is crazy

MementoMori

PiE wrote: »

The team being better now than before has very little to do with G+H - in fact, I'd argue that the team is better now despite G+H.

Yeah I'd agree with this.

I think Benitez did very well this summer in terms of what he achieved in the transfer market especially if the reports that his budget for the summer was effectively £10m plus what he could realise in sales.

The worrying thing is from that report is

Tellingly Liverpool carry a similar amount of debt as the north London club, the difference being that Arsenal have invested in a new stadium that helps generate more than £220 million in revenue each year.

Even assuming the stadium "only" generates £200m a year in revenue if this situation continues that effectively means that as some stage Arsenal will in effect have an extra £200m to spend a year on players than Liverpool. I'm not saying that they will go spend £200m a year on players but it just shows the difference that is there. Every day the stadium doesnt get built is a day we lose grounds on the competition.:(

rosboy

MementoMori wrote: »

Even assuming the stadium "only" generates £200m a year in revenue if this situation continues that effectively means that as some stage Arsenal will in effect have an extra £200m to spend a year on players than Liverpool. I'm not saying that they will go spend £200m a year on players but it just shows the difference that is there. Every day the stadium doesnt get built is a day we lose grounds on the competition.:(

How much does Anfield generate annually in ticket sales? I know its not £220m. We won't necessarily be falling £220m behind Arsenal every year, just the difference between the two. Still an unacceptable situation, but the article is poorly written, as I leads you to believe that Arsenal will be getting £220m every year that we won't.

MementoMori

rosboy wrote: »

How much does Anfield generate annually in ticket sales? I know its not £220m. We won't necessarily be falling £220m behind Arsenal every year, just the difference between the two. Still an unacceptable situation, but the article is poorly written, as I leads you to believe that Arsenal will be getting £220m every year that we won't.

Ah - blame last night - my incisive anal-ysis failing miserable - the good news is that that Arsenal don't have £220m a year more to spend a year than us.

Still I presume we must/will be a good way behind them until the stadium gets built:(