Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

opr

dardoz wrote: »

guys I know this is way OTT but I also know one of you will know the answer to this quicker than any1. Where can I find a stream for the Calzaghe vs Jones Jnr fight tonight?

http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=23193&part=sports

This one is not the best quailty but if your stuck and don't find anything else

http://www.justin.tv/em151

Most of the links are not online yet as the main fight isn't till 4am

Opr

Dub13

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

As I make it, the Big Four mini-league so far...

Liverpool P2 W2 6 points
Arsenal P1 W1 3 Points
Chelsea P2 D2 2 Points
Man Utd P3 D1 L2 1 Point

That makes a change! The winner of this mini-league has typically gone on to win the league. Read into that what you may, but it is obvious that Liverpool's dismal league record against the big teams contributed to our lack of domestic success. Nice to see that could be changing!

You need to note that Utd have played the other 3 away so have 3 home games coming up.I agree it looks good now.

copacetic

Dub13 wrote: »

You need to note that Utd have played the other 3 away so have 3 home games coming up.I agree it looks good now.

even still the best they can do is 2nd worst in seasons and that time they came 3rd. We've already equalled our (shockingly bad) best in just 2 games.

It means nothing at this stage but I know which record I'd prefer. Especially since we have 2 home games left in the mini table.

LuckyLloyd

+1 on wanting Rafa to stay for the long haul.

opr

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

+1 on wanting Rafa to stay for the long haul.

10,000 post and thats the best you could do :P

Opr

mayordenis

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

As I make it, the Big Four mini-league so far...

Liverpool P2 W2 6 points
Arsenal P1 W1 3 Points
Chelsea P2 D2 2 Points
Man Utd P3 D1 L2 1 Point

chelsea have drawn 1 and lost 1 If I remember correctly - which i do.

copacetic

mayordenis wrote: »

chelsea have drawn 1 and lost 1 If I remember correctly - which i do.

yep, pretty sure someone beat them:D

shane86

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2008/11/07/pensioner-killed-by-steven-gerrard-supergoal-115875-20877588/

What a headline :rolleyes:

mike65

What a way to go. That chap isn't the first guy to be seen off during a Liverpool game.

Mike

Karmafaerie

shane86 wrote: »

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2008/11/07/pensioner-killed-by-steven-gerrard-supergoal-115875-20877588/

What a headline :rolleyes:

It's all part of Rafa's evil plan for world domination.
It started with zonal marking, then rotation, then as Rafa said global warming and rising petrol prices, next he's invading Belgium!

shane86

Karmafaerie wrote: »

It's all part of Rafa's evil plan for world domination.
It started with zonal marking, then rotation, then as Rafa said global warming and rising petrol prices, next he's invading Belgium!

LOL, best photoshop ever


I had been assuming from the headline a Gerrard shot had knocked out some old spectator stone dead (yes, I know goals seldom make it into the crowd....meh, early morning )

Dub13

Here is a nice story from one of the Irishkop lads who was at the game yesterday...

I was just wondering if anyone who was at the game yesterday or possibly if anyone picked it up on tv saw/heard Carra's first half outburst? It was around the 25 minute mark while it was still zip zip and a minority of the crowd were getting a little restless.

Some scouse guy who is always moaning whenever I sit there, sitting abar' 5 rows from the front Lower Centenery block H, had a go at JC 'cos Carra had to go back to Reina with a pass instead of going forward (where there was no pass on!). After Carra passes it back he turns round to your man and tells him to 'shut the f**k up, ya cryin' c**t'. That got a good cheer from the crowd round. Then 5 minutes later Reina gives it to Jamie and while he is running with the ball past where your man was sitting, turns his head towards your man and goes something like 'Look I'm carryin the ball forward now aren't I ya twat'. That shut him up for good.

Has anyone ever seen a player do this before because I haven't.
Nice one Jamie.

mike65

We need a "JamieCam"

Mike

Dub13

mike65 wrote: »

We need a "JamieCam"

Yea that would be super.

mike65

Sky sport used to have a player cam during games, do they still do that?

Mike

LuckyLloyd

mike65 wrote: »

Sky sport used to have a player cam during games, do they still do that?

Mike

They do not. And they are far too brand conscious to turn a camera on Carra if he has a propensity to do the above!

Dub13

mike65 wrote: »

Sky sport used to have a player cam during games, do they still do that?

I don't think so,I never used it.On the same note does anybody listen to that fanzone thing..?I would say that could do your head in for 90min.

GBX

Yeah they had one thru the "red button" It switched every 10/15 mins to a player from each team. Generally a striker. I think it was half screen with the game screen in a smaller screen. Never used it. Would be very boring im sure. Sky thought it was the dogs danglies!

Obviously scrapped from lack of interest.

Mr Alan

http://www.liverweb.org.uk/firsttab.asp?season=198990

just to give an idea of the mountainous task that faces us, and just how well Rafa has done.

above is the league table from the last time we won the league....79 points total....drew 10 matches and lost 5.

Guy:Incognito

mike65 wrote: »

We need a "JamieCam"

Mike

Was in the Anfield road end (our side of it ) for the 2-0 over Chelsea last year.
Chelsea were taking a corner and Carra was telling crouch where to stand. Long and short of it, Crouch was standing 2 feet (literally) from where Carra told him to and Carra went bat**** crazy at him. Started screamign (while standing 3 or 4 feet away) in his face to stand where he was told then went an pulled him to position while pointing and shouting at the ground.

The mans a legend.

Mr Alan wrote: »

http://www.liverweb.org.uk/firsttab.asp?season=198990

just to give an idea of the mountainous task that faces us, and just how well Rafa has done.

above is the league table from the last time we won the league....79 points total....drew 10 matches and lost 5.

Dont suppose theres much chance of Utd finishing on 48 points this time round?:)

sweetie

Stekelly wrote: »

Dont suppose theres much chance of Utd finishing on 48 points this time round?:)

city might be lucky to get that many though.

Dub13

Apparently that Vintage Carra story I posted is easy to spot on the tv coverage,so if anybody has it on Sky Plus re watch it and see if you can spot it.Its around the 25th to 30th min.

LOL.

Thats class.

Just watched it.

The first Incident is clear as anything , you just have to watch Carra and not the ball .
He has his back to the Centenary when the ball is passed across to the left side and he turns and goes for the touch line ………………….

The second bit you wouldn’t notice except for you told us and your looking for it, as he is running with the ball and turns his head to the side for a second.

Keith186

malice_ wrote: »

See, that's how good a job Riera's done on the left of midfield, I've completely forgotten Kewell . In fairness to Igor, there were a few games that season where he ran the show in the centre of midfield, especially in Europe (actually, it may only have been in Europe ). Remember this run and pass for Luis Garcia against Leverkusen?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPUrtqayAXE

Why not? He's operating on a smaller budget than all of the other big 4 managers, he gets little credit when Liverpool win (according to most of the media the Man Utd win was down to them playing badly, not anything Liverpool did :rolleyes:) and all the flak when Liverpool don't.

Are you sure he's on a smaller budget than Arsenal. I think it's safe to say that Liverpool spent more than Arsenal. Take lastyear for example:

Despite winning the Premier League last season, Manchester United were the biggest spenders during 2007, shelling out £51million on players.

They were closely followed by Liverpool (£50million), while Tottenham spent £40million in their quest for Champions League qualification and newly-promoted Sunderland spent £35million.

Source.

malice_ wrote: »

I think the only Liverpool fans who are not happy with him are the kind of ones who start moaning if the team isn't 3-0 up after 20 minutes of a game and would only be satisfied if Liverpool won every competition they entered.

That's just crap and OTT. Even kids aren't that bad. I wouldn't care if Liverpool didn't win the Carling Cup or FA Cup for 20 years once they win the Premiership. Hopefully this is the year though!

Dont be at yourself

Are you sure he's on a smaller budget than Arsenal. I think it's safe to say that Liverpool spent more than Arsenal.

Much of Liverpool's purchasing power was generated through player sales. We had to shift the likes of Crouch and Riise in order to buy in Keane and Dossena. It was wheeling & dealing of the highest order.

Arsenal under Wenger are something of an anomaly. They frequently break even or make a profit on their transfer dealings. That said, if Wenger turned around and asked the board for 40 or 50 million, he'd probably get it, no questioned asked!

Rafa doesn't have that financial backing from the owners, and with the current financial situation, that's a problem that's only going to get worse.

spockety

Keith186 wrote: »

Are you sure he's on a smaller budget than Arsenal. I think it's safe to say that Liverpool spent more than Arsenal.

I don't think Arsenal should really be taken into account in comparisons. I mean, Benitez has had far more success since his arrival at Anfield than Wenger has had in the same period.

~Rebel~

Keith186 wrote: »

Are you sure he's on a smaller budget than Arsenal. I think it's safe to say that Liverpool spent more than Arsenal. Take lastyear for example:



Source.



That's just crap and OTT. Even kids aren't that bad. I wouldn't care if Liverpool didn't win the Carling Cup or FA Cup for 20 years once they win the Premiership. Hopefully this is the year though!

Liverpools spending is a very different story to Liverpools net spending. Net spend was only between 7 and 12mill iirc. Arsenal got Ramsey for around 5, and im not sure what Nasri cost, but i doubt it was much more. I dont think they generated anything through player sales. Flamini, Gilberto etc left on free's.

As a general rule, yes pool spend more, but not last window.

Keith186

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Keith, the very fact that you call him Rafa "rotation" Benitez sums everything up for me.

Rafa rotates less than the premiership average, and of the big 4 clubs, only Wenger at Arsenal rotates less.

Dirk Diggler is a legend, and if Rafa hadn't stuck with him, against the vast majority of the fans vocal wishes, we wouldn't be flying high now.

First of all, Kuyt's a decent player and he's having a great season.

Rafa Benitez may rotate less fair enough, but the key players he has left out of key games has cost us points in the past. He has still managed to win a good % of games but I have to say we got very lucky in quite a few of them.
I don't mind rotating squad players but leaving out the best players sometimes hasn't worked cos the rest of the squad isn't up to scratch against a good few teams.

There was no point in rotating players as much as he did in the past few years as essentially this is what lost us the league very early on.

I've felt really pissed off with him leaving great players on the bench and then bringing them on for the last 20 minutes to chase a game. Why doesn't he start them and get the job done and then rest them? It's bewildering sometimes.

His team selection has been a bit better this season than previous couple and it shows by the amount of points we have.

Keith186

spockety wrote: »

I mean, Benitez has had far more success since his arrival at Anfield than Wenger has had in the same period.

Wenger has had great success. His team along with Barcelona play the best club football on the planet.

They've won more titles than Liverpool (no European Cup obviously) but it's hard to argue Liverpool have been more successful.

~Rebel~

Keith186 wrote: »

First of all, Kuyt's a decent player and he's having a great season.

Rafa Benitez may rotate less fair enough, but the key players he has left out of key games has cost us points in the past. He has still managed to win a good % of games but I have to say we got very lucky in quite a few of them.
I don't mind rotating squad players but leaving out the best players sometimes hasn't worked cos the rest of the squad isn't up to scratch against a good few teams.

There was no point in rotating players as much as he did in the past few years as essentially this is what lost us the league very early on.

I've felt really pissed off with him leaving great players on the bench and then bringing them on for the last 20 minutes to chase a game. Why doesn't he start them and get the job done and then rest them? It's bewildering sometimes.

His team selection has been a bit better this season than previous couple and it shows by the amount of points we have.

what i've come to realise recently is that Rafa having us out of the league early on mattered fuk all in the grand scheme of things. If our full squad wasn't good enough to hang in there early on it sure as sht wouldn't be good enough later on in the season with the better players wrecked and the worse ones not having played much. Add to this that any competition we Were still in contention for, would be far harder to win as our best players wouldn't be at their best. So instead what Rafa's done is thrown them out, see how they do, if they're good enough, great, if not, thats the way it is. This way has meant we've been in the likes of a FA cup final, 2 Champions League finals and a Champions league Semi final. Thats some going, and i would put a lot of it down to what he did earlier in the season. this year he's not rotating any more or less then he did then, but they're good enough to hang in there now.

Also I'd just like to point out that the number of times that our Best players, i.e Torres, Gerrard, Reina, Carra were rested without having niggles or injuries is exceptionally small. With no actual reason for it, its probably only happened once or twice that any of these are just dropped. I do remember one game where whatever pundit it was gave out stink over Gerrard not starting. The full 20mins of his pre match analysis focused on this, only for the commentator to call out the teams saying "and mascherano is in for Gerrard, who of course picked up a thigh strain in midweek".

Moral of the story being, just because someone doesn't know why a player isn't starting, doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a reason.

mike65

IN THE SAME PERIOD

ie 2004 -> 2008 Wengers won nothing, Rafa CL, FA cup.

edit didn't they win FA Cup?

Mike

Keith186

mike65 wrote: »

IN THE SAME PERIOD

ie 2004 -> 2008 Wengers won nothing, Rafa CL, FA cup.

edit didn't they win FA Cup?

Mike

Yeah they did. League in 2003/2004 too so they were champions during 2004 season. Came close to CL as runners up, as we did too.

L'prof

~Rebel~ wrote: »

As a general rule, yes pool spend more, but not last window.

Right, I'm not sure about in the last window, but last season Liverpool spent around €43.3m net whereas Arsenal made €0.15m! Liverpool officially bought Mascherano in the last window!

Malice

Keith186 wrote: »

Are you sure he's on a smaller budget than Arsenal. I think it's safe to say that Liverpool spent more than Arsenal.

You're right in terms of spending but what I meant was in terms of the money that is available (as other posters pointed out). Sorry if it wasn't clear in my post. Wenger has money available but chooses not to spend it and Rafa has to sell to buy.

Keith186 wrote:

That's just crap and OTT. Even kids aren't that bad. I wouldn't care if Liverpool didn't win the Carling Cup or FA Cup for 20 years once they win the Premiership. Hopefully this is the year though!

Why do you think that's crap and over the top? I wasn't having a go at you if that's what you think.

Keith186 wrote:

Wenger has had great success. His team along with Barcelona play the best club football on the planet.

I don't know about that. Arsenal might play pretty passing triangles but pretty football doesn't always win you trophies.

Keith186 wrote:

They've won more titles than Liverpool (no European Cup obviously) but it's hard to argue Liverpool have been more successful.

As was pointed out already, since Rafa arrived at Liverpool in June 2004 they have won the Champions League in 2005, UEFA Super Cup in 2005, FA Cup in 2006 and been Champions League runners-up in 2007.
In the same period Arsenal have won the FA Cup (2005) and been Champions League runners-up (2006). Doesn't that make Liverpool more successful or am I missing something?

L'prof

malice_ wrote: »

You're right in terms of spending but what I meant was in terms of the money that is available (as other posters pointed out). Sorry if it wasn't clear in my post. Wenger has money available but chooses not to spend it and Rafa has to sell to buy.


Why do you think that's crap and over the top? I wasn't having a go at you if that's what you think.


I don't know about that. Arsenal might play pretty passing triangles but pretty football doesn't always win you trophies.

As was pointed out already, since Rafa arrived at Liverpool in June 2004 they have won the Champions League in 2005, UEFA Super Cup in 2005, FA Cup in 2006 and been Champions League runners-up in 2007.
In the same period Arsenal have won the FA Cup (2005) and been Champions League runners-up (2006). Doesn't that make Liverpool more successful or am I missing something?

Oh come on, that's just a glorified friendly...a better comparison would be Wengers first few years to Rafas first few years really!

Dont be at yourself

a better comparison would be Wengers first few years to Rafas first few years really!

Why would it? We're comparing Rafa's Liverpool to the Big Four as they stand today. I mean, we're not challenging a 1990s Arsenal side for trophies, and nor are we competing with them for players.

The original point was that Rafa has been operating under a tighter budget than his direct competitors. Lets not muddy the waters!

Malice

jasonorr wrote: »

Oh come on, that's just a glorified friendly...

Okay, leave it out then. The big difference between the two manager's records over the time period is the small matter of the Champions League win in 2005. Was that a glorified friendly too?

jasonorr wrote:

a better comparison would be Wengers first few years to Rafas first few years really!

Wenger had quite a strong squad to being with. Rafa inherited a team that was defensively strong but not very imaginative going forward. Our game plan at the time seemed to revolve around Gerrard hitting long balls for Heskey to flick on to Owen or for Owen to chase by himself.

Wenger inherited Dennis Bergkamp, Rafa inherited Vladimir Smicer. Wenger inherited Ian Wright, Rafa inherited a want-away Michael Owen.

slingerz

does anyone think that the ever increasing prospect carlos tevez not being kept by United that tevez would be a good partner for Torres???

L'prof

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Why would it? We're comparing Rafa's Liverpool to the Big Four as they stand today. I mean, we're not challenging a 1990s Arsenal side for trophies, and nor are we competing with them for players.

The original point was that Rafa has been operating under a tighter budget than his direct competitors. Lets not muddy the waters!

Only because, it seems that posters are using this time frame to judge the merits of both managers. Anyway, I'm not going to argue either way on that one.

Since Rafa came (these figures may be wrong), I think this is the net expenditure of the top 4 (on players): Chelsea: -€277.7m, Liverpool: -€169.1m, Utd: -€166.4m, Arsenal: +€4.42m. So how Rafa is working under a tighter budget than the rest, I don't know? As for money being available to Wenger, I doubt it as the squad simply isn't big enough.

malice_ wrote: »

Wenger had quite a strong squad to being with. Rafa inherited a team that was defensively strong but not very imaginative going forward. Our game plan at the time seemed to revolve around Gerrard hitting long balls for Heskey to flick on to Owen or for Owen to chase by himself.

Wenger inherited Dennis Bergkamp, Rafa inherited Vladimir Smicer. Wenger inherited Ian Wright, Rafa inherited a want-away Michael Owen.

What about Gerrard and Carragher...I'd have to be shown both rosters, but I don't think you can say that Liverpool who were pretty much an established top 4 side when Rafa took over was worse than an Arsenal side who were anything but?

mike65

Liverpool have funded most of thier player purchases out of CL revenue and player sales, Utd have not.

Mike

Dont be at yourself

Since Rafa came (these figures may be wrong), I think this is the net expenditure of the top 4 (on players): Chelsea: -€277.7m, Liverpool: -€169.1m, Utd: -€166.4m, Arsenal: +€4.42m. So how Rafa is working under a tighter budget than the rest, I don't know? As for money being available to Wenger, I doubt it as the squad simply isn't big enough.

Those figures are way off.

Paul Tompkins, in an article last year, put Rafa's net spend at about 56 million pounds, compared to Fergie at about 73 million for the same period. Since the article, Liverpool have bought the likes of Keane and Dossena (and sold Riise, Crouch...), and Fergie has bought Berbatov.

zing

Wow - been a while since either the rotation thing or Rafa's spending have come up here and both rear their heads together.

It's been done to death here numerous times - please go read the previous threads rather than dragging it all up again. At the end of the day the outcome will be the same - we'll all just agree to disagree on these topics.

L'prof

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Those figures are way off.

Paul Tompkins, in an article last year, put Rafa's net spend at about 56 million pounds, compared to Fergie at about 73 million for the same period. Since the article, Liverpool have bought the likes of Keane and Dossena (and sold Riise, Crouch...), and Fergie has bought Berbatov.

I'm not saying my figures are 100% accurate, I took them all from here, which may or may not be a good source, but I'm sure if it is wrong it's proportionately so! Also, €1 was worth 68p in 2004, now €1 is worth 82p, this could account for discrepancies in the magnitude of the sales. Another point to note would be whether or not you can trust Paul Tompkins figures any more than the site where I got mine from. That's up to you to decide, but is he not a Liverpool fan himself?

Dont be at yourself

Also, €1 was worth 68p in 2004, now €1 is worth 82p, this could account for discrepancies in the magnitude of the sales.

Well in fairness, it couldn't.

Waster

Arsenal have a higher wage bill than Liverpool by £12m.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7423254.stm

L'prof

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Well in fairness, it couldn't.

No you're right, but it does show a 17% discrepancy for United and a 26% discrepancy for Liverpool. Anyway, it all depends on which site you consider more reliable, all I was pointing out was that since Rafa came, he has spent slightly more/slightly less, which ever you believe, than United.

L'prof

Waster wrote: »

Arsenal have a higher wage bill than Liverpool by £12m.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7423254.stm

They also have a higher matchday revenue.

joe123

Yawn....can we move on from this now. As someone pointed out these topics have been brought up before. Can we talk football rather than statisical stats on whos spent the higher percentage in the current window of economic downturn / matchday revenue plus net income spend etc etc....

And whoever mentioned carlos tevez as a good purchase would be correct. Though way out of our budget. Theyd be looking for 30 million and to be honest I think weve got about 2 million to spend.Who knows though....

L'prof

joe123 wrote: »

Yawn....can we move on from this now. As someone pointed out these topics have been brought up before. Can we talk football rather than statisical stats on whos spent the higher percentage in the current window of economic downturn / matchday revenue plus net income spend etc etc....

And whoever mentioned carlos tevez as a good purchase would be correct. Though way out of our budget. Theyd be looking for 30 million and to be honest I think weve got about 2 million to spend.Who knows though....

Tevez would be a great buy for any team, whether Liverpool can afford him or not, who knows especially with this new stadium in the pipeline, but Rafa has been able to get money for Torres, Mascherano and Keane, so you never know! Although would Fergie sell such a talent to, historically, one of Uniteds greatest rivals? I'd be surprised!

Is that better?

Boggles

jasonorr wrote: »

Although would Fergie sell such a talent to, historically, one of Uniteds greatest rivals? I'd be surprised!

Is that better?

He wouldn't be Fergusons to sell.

zing

joe123 wrote: »

And whoever mentioned carlos tevez as a good purchase would be correct. Though way out of our budget. Theyd be looking for 30 million and to be honest I think weve got about 2 million to spend.Who knows though....

Aye - and don't expect any backing from G&H in Jan. It's widely believed that they are currently looking for a buyer and if so they'll be highly unlikely to approve any sort of a xfer budget in Jan. If Rafa manages to sell the likes of Itandje & Pennant then he may have a few quid to spend - otherwise he's likely to have sfa.

tbh I'd be very surprised if Utd didn't sign Tevez on a permanent deal.