Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Spud83

Highsider wrote: »

Well fair enough but like i've already stated i don't believe he is the better player than Lucas so it's likely the idiots could still boo him no? Lucas is a superb prospect and hopefully will improve over time. Barry imo is at his peak and tbh i'm not that impressed by it.

Lucas has potential alre but for at least the next two seasons Barry would be the better bet.

Highsider

Headshot wrote: »

ah come on barry is a way better player than Lucas

wouldnt be suprised to see lucas sold in summer

Have you actually watched Barry this season. He has'nt been all that. Lucas has'nt been great either but steady none the less. I'll tell you this much if Rafa had spent the 22m that O'Neill wanted for Barry last year and he had just had the season he has had, the usual folk would be on here calling for his head. Fair play to Rafa for calling O'Neills Bluff.

MementoMori

Robbie Keane's stats for this season.

Liverpool - 28 games 7 goals in 1784 mins. 255 mins per goal. No penalties
Spurs - 13 games 4 goals in 1167 mins. 292 mins per goal. 2 goals were penalties

This might be tempting fate with the Spurs game coming up but it looks like recouping £16m (at least) was a pretty decent outcome.

Boggles

MementoMori wrote: »

Robbie Keane's stats for this season.

Liverpool - 28 games 7 goals in 1784 mins. 255 mins per goal. No penalties
Spurs - 13 games 4 goals in 1167 mins. 292 mins per goal. 2 goals were penalties

This might be tempting fate with the Spurs game coming up but it looks like recouping £16m (at least) was a pretty decent outcome.

Or as I said yesterday he could have made up the 2 points which would have taken the league to the last day of the season.

PiE

Or he could have tried a flick that cost us the 3pts that saw us (likely) finish ahead of Chelsea.

I'm sure you're happy to do this all day, but it's terribly boring.

JPA

Highsider wrote: »

Have you actually watched Barry this season. He has'nt been all that. Lucas has'nt been great either but steady none the less. I'll tell you this much if Rafa had spent the 22m that O'Neill wanted for Barry last year and he had just had the season he has had, the usual folk would be on here calling for his head. Fair play to Rafa for calling O'Neills Bluff.

How would he have had the same season in a different team?

MementoMori

Boggles wrote: »

Or as I said yesterday he could have made up the 2 points which would have taken the league to the last day of the season.

Given that most of the draws which could have been wins were while he was actually at the club, this seems rather unlikely.

9 of the 11 draws came while he was at the club.

Chardee MacDennis

United Fan: Rafa is a terrible manager; Keane, rotation, wasting billions, blah blah blah

Liverpool Fan: here is why we think you're wrong

United Fan: no here's why you are wrong

3 months later

United Fan: Rafa is a terrible manager; Keane, rotation, wasting billions, blah blah blah

Liverpool Fan: here is why we think you're wrong

United Fan: no here's why you are wrong

3 months later

United Fan: Rafa is a terrible manager; Keane, rotation, wasting billions, blah blah blah

Liverpool Fan: here is why we think you're wrong

United Fan: no here's why you are wrong

3 months later

United Fan: Rafa is a terrible manager; Keane, rotation, wasting billions, blah blah blah

Liverpool Fan: here is why we think you're wrong

United Fan: no here's why you are wrong

see a pattern, get some new (and better) arguments please

~Rebel~

Has the thread jumped back 6 months or something?

Boggles

MementoMori wrote: »

Given that most of the draws which could have been wins were while he was actually at the club, this seems rather unlikely.

9 of the 11 draws came while he was at the club.

Did Torres not play in more of them?

Boggles

BastardPrince wrote: »

United Fan: Rafa is a terrible manager; Keane, rotation, wasting billions, blah blah blah

Liverpool Fan: here is why we think you're wrong

United Fan: no here's why you are wrong

3 months later

United Fan: Rafa is a terrible manager; Keane, rotation, wasting billions, blah blah blah

Liverpool Fan: here is why we think you're wrong

United Fan: no here's why you are wrong

3 months later

United Fan: Rafa is a terrible manager; Keane, rotation, wasting billions, blah blah blah

Liverpool Fan: here is why we think you're wrong

United Fan: no here's why you are wrong

3 months later

United Fan: Rafa is a terrible manager; Keane, rotation, wasting billions, blah blah blah

Liverpool Fan: here is why we think you're wrong

United Fan: no here's why you are wrong

see a pattern, get some new (and better) arguments please

It will be brought up when Rafa blames lack of players for his lack of success.

~ Same Pattern

jesus_thats_gre

A few folk here are going back on my ignore list.

zing

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Has the thread jumped back 6 months or something?

Did it ever move forward ?

Boggles

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

A few folk here are going back on my ignore list.

Do you have to announce that every time? It's not like anyone gives a fook! :rolleyes:

mayordenis

Boggles wrote: »

Or as I said yesterday he could have made up the 2 points which would have taken the league to the last day of the season.

Or as I told you yesterday - we most likely would of dropped more points as the whole Will he Won't he play debacle plays out,
Some man for avoiding reading things, yep rafa selling keane cost us the title.

whatawaster

Boggles wrote: »

Or as I said yesterday he could have made up the 2 points which would have taken the league to the last day of the season.

Or, he would probably, if he had played, taken Yossi's place in the team. And he's been far better in the last 4 months than Keane ever looked like being for Liverpool.

joe123

zing wrote: »

Did it ever move forward ?

I sometimes think the same.

Read a report that Antonio Valencia (is close to a move to real madrid) Was on sky sports a day or two ago so thats a possible target gone.

Was just thinking is there any word on Benzema moving anywhere this summer? I completely forgot about him the last while.

Would love to see him at the club but not sure how much Lyon would be looking for.

With Rafa saying the club could potentially break their transfer fee this summer Im thinking hes already signed or as good as signed someone as he wouldnt come out with a statement like that with one disapointing fans and two rising potential transfer fees.

Im dying for the summer dealings to start up! Looking forward to next season already.

MementoMori

Boggles wrote: »

Did Torres not play in more of them?

In the nine draws, when Keane was at the club, Keane played in seven of them and Torres in five.

The idea that Liverpool would have been better off if Keane had stayed after Christmas or had played more while he was there just doesn't seem to fit in with the facts.

Even including his penalties with Spurs, Keane's minutes per goal record is worse than N'Gog minutes per goal record.

Boggles

MementoMori wrote: »

In the nine draws, when Keane was at the club, Keane played in seven of them and Torres in five.

Keane started 7 of them???

Blackhorse Slim

joe123 wrote: »

With Rafa saying the club could potentially break their transfer fee this summer Im thinking hes already signed or as good as signed someone as he wouldnt come out with a statement like that with one disapointing fans and two rising potential transfer fees.

I was thinking the same - I wonder whether the announcement of a friendly against Atletico is part of the deal?

Boggles

whatawaster wrote: »

Or, he would probably, if he had played, taken Yossi's place in the team. And he's been far better in the last 4 months than Keane ever looked like being for Liverpool.

Yossi got time to improve at the club, something Keane wasn't afforded.

mayordenis

Boggles wrote: »

Yossi got time to improve at the club, something Keane wasn't afforded.

well yossi was banging in goals last season from the wing aswell, you know hattricks and stuff like that, he also cost about 5 million, recouping that isn't as important as trying to claw back some of parry's wasted 20 million.

Do you get it?
Mad I know.

whatawaster

Boggles wrote: »

Yossi got time to improve at the club, something Keane wasn't afforded.

Yossi accepted his role at the club, had a good attitude when brought on and brought off.

Spud83

joe123 wrote: »

With Rafa saying the club could potentially break their transfer fee this summer Im thinking hes already signed or as good as signed someone as he wouldnt come out with a statement like that with one disapointing fans and two rising potential transfer fees.

If it didn't happen the fans would just blame the owners anyway so why would Rafa care.

mike65

Why hell hell is Keane being talked of still?

Move on, Liverpool have!

MementoMori

Boggles wrote: »

Keane started 7 of them???

Keane started 6, came on as a sub in 1.

Boggles

MementoMori wrote: »

Keane started 6, came on as a sub in 1.

How many draws out of the 11 did Torres play in?

event

whilst its great reading ye all bitch about the same topics, over and over again, the below two comments are preposterous

spockety wrote: »

Y'know, I'd wager that foremost in Liverpool fans minds when they remember Robbie Keane would be his ridiculous attempt at an elaborate flick against Athletico, when a tap in would have done to get us 3 points instead of 1. It certainly weighs on my mind more than any other Robbie Keane memory at Liverpool.

I'd wager it also topped Rafa's thoughts when making the decision to offload him, however much the spectacular goal against Arsenal tried to weigh in the other direction.

PiE wrote: »

Or he could have tried a flick that cost us the 3pts that saw us (likely) finish ahead of Chelsea.

I'm sure you're happy to do this all day, but it's terribly boring.

so you reckon rafa might have got rid of him because he tried a flick.
so if anyone else ever tries a flick, or go around a keeper when he was clean through, or try a nutmeg on a player, pretty much anything like that, he could be in danger of being sold?

does he not want any flair players in his team?

if torres tried to do that and failed, would rafa contemplate selling him?

fair enough, he had his reasons, which none of us here know regardless what people say, but i doubt he would be as petty as that


but otherwise, keep up the pointless discussion lads, it never gets old

Dublin_Gunner

event wrote: »

so you reckon rafa might have got rid of him because he tried a flick.
so if anyone else ever tries a flick, or go around a keeper when he was clean through, or try a nutmeg on a player, pretty much anything like that, he could be in danger of being sold?

does he not want any flair players in his team?

Ah come on now. Thats a ridiculous argument. Flare is all well and good. Floundering chance after open-goal chance is not good.

If you have the flare to still stick the ball in the net, great. Keane was bought as a goal scorer. He missed easy chances, scored a few good goals though, but missed the bread and butter ones that he should have been taking.

if torres tried to do that and failed, would rafa contemplate selling him?

Torres wouldnt do it and miss, he'd put it in. Thats the difference.

fair enough, he had his reasons, which none of us here know regardless what people say, but i doubt he would be as petty as that

Petty maybe. But it gave him enough reason to offload a player that he apparently never wanted in the first place, strengthening his argument that he should have more/total control over transfers.

5starpool

I came here to read about Liverpool. Seems like I shouldn't have bothered really.

MementoMori

Boggles wrote: »

How many draws out of the 11 did Torres play in?

I thought you were arguing that if Keane had stayed Liverpool would have been better off? How does Torres come into this?

In fairness you put forward the idea regarding Keane that

Boggles wrote: »

he could have made up the 2 points which would have taken the league to the last day of the season.

I put forward evidence which showed that Keane was actually at the club for most of these drawn games and that he actually played in most of them so basically he had the opportunity to do something about these dropped points drawn games but didn't.

11 drawn games in the league.
6 drawn games - started for Liverpool - scored in one, didn't score in five
1 drawn game - came off the subs bench - didn't score
2 drawn games - on the bench
2 drawn games - playing for Spurs - given one of these was the 4:4 against Arsenal I don't think he could have done much about this result.

Boggles

MementoMori wrote: »

I thought you were arguing that if Keane had stayed Liverpool would have been better off? How does Torres come into this?

You seem intelligent enough MementoMori. I think you know where I was getting at.

spockety

event wrote: »

whilst its great reading ye all bitch about the same topics, over and over again, the below two comments are preposterous
so you reckon rafa might have got rid of him because he tried a flick.
so if anyone else ever tries a flick, or go around a keeper when he was clean through, or try a nutmeg on a player, pretty much anything like that, he could be in danger of being sold?

I wasn't being literal, get a grip.

I'm just saying that flick was symptomatic of Keane's time at Liverpool. I only remember two things about when he was there (and I watched every single game), that flick and the Arsenal goal. Everything else is a blur. The flick potentially cost us 2 points. It was a real indicator of Keane's own priorities.

Sorry, there is a third thing I remember, though not from a single match, was Keane's attitude to his fellow players while on the pitch, and his reactions when being subbed. (Arms in the air, look of disbelief, etc., etc.).

It just didn't work out for anyone, much better that he was sold while there was a chance to recoup the money.

Anyway, let's move on.

event

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Ah come on now. Thats a ridiculous argument. Flare is all well and good. Floundering chance after open-goal chance is not good.

If you have the flare to still stick the ball in the net, great. Keane was bought as a goal scorer. He missed easy chances, scored a few good goals though, but missed the bread and butter ones that he should have been taking.

a ridiculous arguement is saying a player was sold because of a missed chance, backheel or not

keane was bought as a goalscorer, really?

considering 16 goals is the most he has ever scored in a league season, that would be a bit silly. he isnt a prolific scorer, never was. i doubt rafa bought him to play as an out and out striker, he would have got him for a partner to torres.

but thats not the point, i was merely saying that i dont think rafa sold him because he tried a flick

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Torres wouldnt do it and miss, he'd put it in. Thats the difference.

:rolleyes:

5starpool

Boggles wrote: »

You seem intelligent enough MementoMori. I think you know where I was getting at.

Oh, have no doubt Boggles. I think everyone in here knows what you are getting at.

Dublin_Gunner

event wrote: »

keane was bought as a goalscorer, really?

considering 16 goals is the most he has ever scored in a league season, that would be a bit silly. he isnt a prolific scorer, never was. i doubt rafa bought him to play as an out and out striker, he would have got him for a partner to torres.

Well considering he's scored 84 goals in 210 appearances for Spurs - thats not too shabby a record.

And by the way, he scored 17 in 2004-2005.

He scored 19 goals throughout 2007 - higher than any other premiership player. When he came back from injury at the end of 06-07, he scored 15 in 15 appearances; and that was out of 31 goals, 13 assists in 40 starts.

He was the first Spurs player to score double figures in 6 successive seasons.

He won player of the year at Spurs 3 times - the first player to do so.

And to top it off, 38 goals in 88 appearances for Ireland.

Hardly prolific........ :rolleyes:


The man went off the boil, and let playing for Liverpool get to his head, and in turn, ruined his chances of staying. As quite rightly put above, his public outburts when being taken off / not receiving a pass etc / missing chances / that attempt at a flick / the fact the manager never really wanted him (apparently) and other off the field stuff that I'm sure we dont yet know about all contributed to him being brought back to the counter with the receipt.

But he was most definitely, bought as a goal scorer - so we wouldn't have to rely solely on Torres up front.

event

so you think robbie keane is a prolific goal scorer?

fair enough, i dont, and the fact he has 176 club goals in 472 games, a goal every 2.68 games, would point to that too, but no doubt ill be told im wrong, so ill leave it at that

Dublin_Gunner

event wrote: »

so you think robbie keane is a prolific goal scorer?

fair enough, i dont, and the fact he has 176 club goals in 472 games, a goal every 2.68 games, would point to that too, but no doubt ill be told im wrong, so ill leave it at that

Yes, I do. Sure, there are more prolific than him, but he's consistant, and always finishes with a high teens league tally - which is good by anyones standards. Look at this season for instance, highest league scorers are Anelka & Ronaldo - with 18 each.

Hardly much more than Keano usually gets, eh? (who incidentally has 9 this year, not too bad considering all the club moving, not starting etc same amount as Bendtner, Berbatov, Van Persie......)

joe123

Shouldnt talk of spurs players be in a spurs thread?? For ****s sake.

PiE

event wrote: »

whilst its great reading ye all bitch about the same topics, over and over again, the below two comments are preposterous

so you reckon rafa might have got rid of him because he tried a flick.
so if anyone else ever tries a flick, or go around a keeper when he was clean through, or try a nutmeg on a player, pretty much anything like that, he could be in danger of being sold?

What? That's not what I said. Try reading things in context next time.

Preposterous!

Dublin_Gunner

Bit of praise for Sami

Rafael Benitez admits that Liverpool will be losing a legend when Sami Hyypia joins Bayer Leverkusen this summer. He said: "Certainly we are losing a legend, for years he has been so good. He has scored important goals and has been very, very good in defence. Clearly we are losing an important player. He will get a fantastic reception from the fans (in the last match of the season against Tottenham). They are amazing and they recognise when someone has been a very good servant to the club. He is a fantastic professional and a very good person, and the fans know this. It is good as a manager that, when you have a player with his name and experience, he still wants to learn. I have been really pleased working with him."

http://www.premierleague.com/page/Headlines/0,,12306~1662886,00.html

MementoMori

Boggles wrote: »

You seem intelligent enough MementoMori. I think you know where I was getting at.

I think you were trying to deflect away from the issue relating to Keane's performance this season by going off on some tangent because I'd shown that what you were saying about him was incorrect. Am I right?

Boggles

MementoMori wrote: »

I think you were trying to deflect away from the issue relating to Keane's performance this season by going off on some tangent because I'd shown that what you were saying about him was incorrect. Am I right?

Negative, I take back what I said about you.

MementoMori

So is there any chance you might actually enlighten us as to how the number of games Torres played has any impact in relation to providing backup/support/proof of your statement below, seeing as I guessed wrong.;)

Boggles wrote: »

Or as I said yesterday he [Keane] could have made up the 2 points which would have taken the league to the last day of the season.

So far I have posted evidence which shows why what you are saying here would appear to be wrong. Do you have anything in the way of evidence/proof/backup to post which would support your statement in the slightest or is it more of a Madame Zelda kind of "I have a feeling in my waters"/"the spririts from beyond lead to me think so"/ "the voices in my head made me say it" type approach which lead you to this opinion?

Spud83

MementoMori wrote: »

So is there any chance you might actually enlighten us as to how the number of games Torres played has any impact in relation to providing backup/support/proof of your statement below, seeing as I guessed wrong.;)



So far I have posted evidence which shows why what you are saying here would appear to be wrong. Do you have anything in the way of evidence/proof/backup to post which would support your statement in the slightest or is it more of a Madame Zelda kind of "I have a feeling in my waters"/"the spririts from beyond lead to me think so"/ "the voices in my head made me say it" type approach which lead you to this opinion?

Jasus lads.

Boggles said could have earned you the extra two points. Not that 100% definitely without a doubt would have.

Nothing you have posted disproves that.

Though you could easily say Rafa could have signed me and I could have earned you the extra two points. Again you can't disprove that.

Nobody knows what would have happened if Keane stayed at Liverpool. He could have helped ya's win the league (or something) or he could have cost yas any number of points, or he could have made absolutely zero difference.

Morzadec

For me my main problem with Keane wasn't so much a couple of missed chances or an attempted flick, but just that he seemed to go missing for long spells in games. There were games where you would be forgiven for not noticing he was on the pitch. He often looked completely lost. He really just did not fit into the team in my opinion. It was blatantly obvious he wasn't working well in the team.

I really don't think hanging on to Keane would have made the difference in pushing United closer, as backed up by those stats about the amount of draws he started in.

We've taken 28 out of the last 30 points I believe. We've been beating the weaker teams with ease, playing very good football with everyone knowing their roles and performing well in them. We were not doing this to anywhere near the same extent or with the same consistency when Keane was in the team and I feel if anything we would be further away if we persisted with an option that clearly wasn't working.

Out of interest Boggles, in what games do you think Keane would have got us the extra couple of points, and who would you be sacrificing to fit him in?

Torres, Gerrard, Kuyt and Benayoun have all been outstanding lately. Where would Keane fit in and improve us?

Keane's a good player but he did not fit in and we did well to get back the guts of what we paid for him. We may not have got that sort of money this summer if we had hung on as I saw very few signs of a change in fortunes for him. He just didn't fit in.

MR NINE

5starpool wrote: »

I came here to read about Liverpool. Seems like I shouldn't have bothered really.

+1. this is all getting far too repetitive and boring. Start a new thread about robbie keane if you care that much.

spockety

rob316 wrote: »

Just a heads up in case people didnt know. The Liverpool vs Spurs game is on Setanta Ireland this weekend from 3 pm, KO 4pm.

Setanta has been good if you're a Liverpool fan this season.

Number of appearances on Setanta for entire season (does not include Setanta Ireland prior to Dec 1st, don't have that info to hand):

13 Liverpool
9 West Ham
9 Sunderland
9 Arsenal
8 Man Utd
7 Tottenham
6 Newcastle
6 Everton
6 Chelsea
6 Aston Villa
5 Portsmouth
5 Man City
5 Hull City
5 Fulham
4 Middlesbrough
4 Manchester United
4 Blackburn
3 West Ham United
3 Bolton
2 Stoke City
2 Stoke
2 Newcastle United
2 Bolton Wanderers
1 West Brom
1 WBA
1 Middlesbrough
1 Hull
1 Fulham


From the 1st December 2008 to the end of the season:

11 Liverpool
6 Sunderland
6 Newcastle
6 Arsenal
5 West Ham
5 Tottenham
5 Man Utd
5 Hull City
4 Manchester United
4 Everton
3 West Ham United
3 Portsmouth
3 Middlesbrough
3 Fulham
3 Chelsea
3 Blackburn
3 Aston Villa
2 Stoke City
2 Newcastle United
2 Bolton Wanderers
2 Bolton
1 WBA
1 Man City

Mr Alan

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Boggles said could have earned you the extra two points.

actually......twas "would have" not "could have"

Boggles wrote: »

I think Keane would have been worth at least 2 points to ye if kept.

Spud83

Mr Alan wrote: »

actually......twas "would have" not "could have"

Ah I didn't read yesterdays posts.

Only picked up the discussions today.

Silly boy Boggles.