Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Boggles

First touch is so important in the premeir league, Babels first touch is simply not good enough, he isn't afforded the time to recover.

He was right to ask for a move last Jan, should get one this summer as his value is only going South.

eagle eye

PiE wrote: »

You really need to stop throwing around statements like that. People in glass houses etc etc.

All your posts are the same, all designed to bait imo. *Adds to ignore list.

daithijjj

PiE wrote: »

You really need to stop throwing around statements like that. People in glass houses etc etc.

Pie, my post was attacked as apparently i had suggested that benitez was "destroying his own players".......load of nonsense.

I never suggested benitez was doing this, the person who decided to quote me drew up the wrong conclusion.

PiE

"Destroy" (though used tongue-in-cheek) was probably an overly strong word to use, but your post did insinuate that it was partially, if not completely, Rafa's fault that Babel hasn't performed as well as we'd all like.

Personally I agree with shotamoose's view that Babel hasn't taken his opportunities. I disagree with his choice of avatar tho.

lint316

Babel needs games and the club can't provide that at the moment

daithijjj

PiE wrote: »

"Destroy" (though used tongue-in-cheek) was probably an overly strong word to use, but your post did insinuate that it was partially, if not completely, Rafa's fault that Babel hasn't performed as well as we'd all like.

Personally I agree with shotamoose's view that Babel hasn't taken his opportunities. I disagree with his choice of avatar tho.

If, by me saying that, i think he could have given him 4/5 games on the bounce, is insinuating that it was benitez fault, partial or otherwise, then so be it. The whole post i made about babel was from the players point of view.

The manager persisted with lucas when he was fookin woefull for large spells, giving away penaltys and getting himself sent off, the man couldnt tackle a foot-longer from subway at times. It might just be that this persistence has seen him improve and i suggested that benitez could have done something similar with babel. If thats me saying he has 'destroyed' babel then there are some very sensitive souls around.

PiE

I could be wrong, my memories a bit hazy, but wasn't that extended run of games that Lucas got during a period of injuries and cup games?

mike65

Babel is on his way if this is to be believed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/may/27/ryan-babel-agent-liverpool-departure

Ryan Babel looks to be on the verge of leaving Liverpool, after manager Rafael Benítez told the Dutch winger's agent that Babel is free to talk to other clubs about a possible move. Babel arrived at Anfield in July 2007 for £11.5m, and has scored 14 goals in 91 matches for the club – although only 42 of those have been starting appearances.

He has reportedly asked for assurances that he will be given more of an opportunity next season. But following discussions with the player's agent, Winnie Haatrecht, Benítez has been unable to offer such guarantees. Babel started only six times in the Premier League this term, and it now appears that Benítez is ready to use the 22-year-old to raise funds.

Babel was signed from Ajax, who yesterday appointed Martin Jol as their new manager, but the asking price to re-sign their former player would rule out the Dutch club.

The player has admirers in England, with Aston Villa, Tottenham and Arsenal believed to be interested. Benítez needs to sell before he can buy, with Carlos Tevez, David Silva and Gareth Barry on the Merseyside club's wish list.

daithijjj

PiE wrote: »

I could be wrong, my memories a bit hazy, but wasn't that extended run of games that Lucas got during a period of injuries and cup games?

Yep, your probably right, and if your not getting games during this period, regardless of your position, then there wasnt much point holding onto babel for the last 5 months. In the shop window at ajax was the best place for him and the club imo.

shotamoose

daithijjj wrote: »

Pie, my post was attacked as apparently i had suggested that benitez was "destroying his own players".......load of nonsense.

I never suggested benitez was doing this, the person who decided to quote me drew up the wrong conclusion.

Apologies if I took you the wrong way (even if it was tongue in cheek) but I get frustrated at the number of people who appear to sincerely believe that Rafa wilfully plays players in the wrong position out of stubbornness or spite (see also his well-known vendetta against Robbie Keane), when the more obvious and rational explanation is that he makes his decisions for the benefit of the team as he sees it. Also, bear in mind that he sees a lot more of the players than we do, particularly in training, and that is bound to have a big influence on his decisions about whether and how to deploy players.

The bottom line is that Babel has had his chances to impress and hasn't taken them so out the door he goes. I'd honestly like to see his promise fulfilled, so I hope he does well elsewhere as long as it isn't in the EPL.

daithijjj

shotamoose wrote: »

Apologies if I took you the wrong way (even if it was tongue in cheek) but I get frustrated at the number of people who appear to sincerely believe that Rafa wilfully plays players in the wrong position out of stubbornness or spite (see also his well-known vendetta against Robbie Keane), when the more obvious and rational explanation is that he makes his decisions for the benefit of the team as he sees it. Also, bear in mind that he sees a lot more of the players than we do, particularly in training, and that is bound to have a big influence on his decisions about whether and how to deploy players.

The bottom line is that Babel has had his chances to impress and hasn't taken them so out the door he goes. I'd honestly like to see his promise fulfilled, so I hope he does well elsewhere as long as it isn't in the EPL.

Fair enough, we all have our frustrations. .......psssssttt, lets not bring up robbie keane, the boardroom was like an episode of fawlty towers last summer. 'Manuel' has different duties this summer thank god.

SlickRic

i'm in two minds about babel.

he could still make it big somewhere, but it just hasn't worked out at Liverpool. he's the main one to blame, obviously, but we also have to maybe lay some blame at the management too.

he hasn't developed like he should.

my fear is he'd become a big player somewhere like Arsenal. i mean thierry henry was a joke when he first arrived, and he had many of the same raw attributes as babel does.

there's no guarantees he'll get anywhere near the sort of level thierry has, but at the same time there'll be a part of me that will be very disappointed if he goes.

i had high hopes for him.

slingerz

mike65 wrote: »

Babel is on his way if this is to be believed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/may/27/ryan-babel-agent-liverpool-departure

IF

Liverpool added Tevez, Barry and Silva it would be one super summer transfer window. The only player I'd add to that wishlist would be Glen Johnson in as RB. Benitez could then perhaps add a replacement for Hyypia but may promote someone from the youths for this

SWAR

slingerz wrote: »

IF

Liverpool added Tevez, Barry and Silva it would be one super summer transfer window. The only player I'd add to that wishlist would be Glen Johnson in as RB. Benitez could then perhaps add a replacement for Hyypia but may promote someone from the youths for this

It sure would...but not going to happen as I can't see us having the knid of money needed for all three...assuming we keep Alonso, which I pray to God we do.

I'd like to see Tevez at Anfield (i think...as he has made his feelings clear about Utd) and Glen Johnson and definately a righ winger...would love to see us getting Valencia from Wigan...cheaper than Silva (un-sure about him) and a natural right winger.

mayordenis

would kill for him to head off to spain if he's leaving,
he would dominate our defense I'm afraid

el rabitos

if the idea that rafa has to sell to buy is to be believed, then the first name that comes to mind is babel.

how many of the people who want babel to stay also dont want to lose alonso, yossi, lucas etc?

cant have it both ways i'm afraid. sacrifices have to be made on the pitch to improve the squad, and when i think of who we can sell to recoup the most money and would limit the loss on the pitch, babel is the one who comes to mind.

PHB

I'd imagine if you've absolutely no money, the thing to do would be to

Sell Alonso buy Barry [drop in performance but a net 6-10 million profit]
Sell Babel [circa 10 you might get]
Buy a top class left winger with the net.

I suspect however there is money there.

~Rebel~

el rabitos wrote: »

if the idea that rafa has to sell to buy is to be believed, then the first name that comes to mind is babel.

how many of the people who want babel to stay also dont want to lose alonso, yossi, lucas etc?

cant have it both ways i'm afraid. sacrifices have to be made on the pitch to improve the squad, and when i think of who we can sell to recoup the most money and would limit the loss on the pitch, babel is the one who comes to mind.

Especially as he's pretty much perfect for a swap deal to the likes of Valencia or Ajax, as even though they're losing a big name, they're bringing in talent in the same role and money.

I like babel and would like him kept, but if we need to sell he's the most logical reasonably big money casualty.

el rabitos

PHB wrote: »

I'd imagine if you've absolutely no money, the thing to do would be to

Sell Alonso buy Barry [drop in performance but a net 6-10 million profit]
Sell Babel [circa 10 you might get]
Buy a top class left winger with the net.

I suspect however there is money there.

why dont you stick to countdown and football manager

PiE

PHB wrote: »

Sell Alonso buy Barry [drop in performance but a net 6-10 million profit]

We're selling Alonso for 16-18m quid now are we?

jesus_thats_gre

Harsh...

lint316

I reckon he'll have around 65 million after he makes his sales.

These are rough guesses:

Cash 20
Keane deal 15
Babel for 10
Lucas for 7
Dossena for 6
Voronin for 3
Leto for 3

Might also offload a few young lads like El Zhar

PHB

lol bit aggressive in this thread today aren't we.

p.s. I rock at countdown, well the maths part anyway. Carol can take it.

el rabitos

appologies for the head loss.

just sick of number and figures pulled out of nowhere and "net profit" made up out of nothing.

its may and already sick of the speculation and made up "rafa's net spend omg"

el rabitos

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Especially as he's pretty much perfect for a swap deal to the likes of Valencia or Ajax, as even though they're losing a big name, they're bringing in talent in the same role and money.

I like babel and would like him kept, but if we need to sell he's the most logical reasonably big money casualty.

agreed, i think in an ideal world where we could sustain the "deadwood" (not exactly calling babel dead wood), we could hold onto him for another season like united can afford to keep nani and hope something good happens.

we cant afford that luxury.

monkey9

PHB wrote: »

Carol can take it.

Dirty!!!!!

Chardee MacDennis

lint316 wrote: »

I reckon he'll have around 65 million after he makes his sales.

These are rough guesses:

Cash 20
Keane deal 15
Babel for 10
Lucas for 7
Dossena for 6
Voronin for 3
Leto for 3

Might also offload a few young lads like El Zhar

no way we'll sell Lucas, or get 6 for Dossena (4-5m imo) and I doubt we'll get 10 for Babel but who knows. also the Keane cash isn't going to add to our spending. it's money accounted for..

lint316

BastardPrince wrote: »

no way we'll sell Lucas, or get 6 for Dossena (4-5m imo) and I doubt we'll get 10 for Babel but who knows. also the Keane cash isn't going to add to our spending. it's money accounted for..

Why would he keep Lucas? ok ok 5 for Dossena instead of 6 :rolleyes: and I think he'll get rought 8-10.5 for Babel. Why is the Keane money not gonna be added to spending?

PiE

lint316 wrote: »

Why would he keep Lucas?

Why not? If we get Barry, Lucas will be an excellent fourth choice midfielder.

All this picking numbers outta the air is kinda pointless.

Dublin_Gunner

PiE wrote: »

Why not? If we get Barry, Lucas will be an excellent fourth choice midfielder.

All this picking numbers outta the air is kinda pointless.

'Excellent' certainly wouldn't be the first word out of my mouth for describing Lucas.

There's a guy I work with has banned anyone from saying his name. If I want to mention Lucas, I have to use the phrase 'yer man' or my mate gets very upset....

lint316

PiE wrote: »

Why not? If we get Barry, Lucas will be an excellent fourth choice midfielder.

All this picking numbers outta the air is kinda pointless.

Spearing or Plessis would be better choice than Lucas

Mr Alan

lint316 wrote: »

Spearing or Plessis would be better choice than Lucas

They really wouldn't.

lint316

ah, I'd have to disagree with you there Mr Alan

rosboy

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

'Excellent' certainly wouldn't be the first word out of my mouth for describing Lucas.

There's a guy I work with has banned anyone from saying his name. If I want to mention Lucas, I have to use the phrase 'yer man' or my mate gets very upset....

There's a guy in my estate that has long conversations with his dog, and believes the dog talks back to him.

Back the land of the relative, I too think Lucas would be an excellent fourth choice midfielder. He's come on a lot in the past couple of months. Saw a game on LFC.tv a few weeks ago from a last year. Lucas was excellent. Unfortunately his progress reversed a little this year earlier on.

People are quick to mention the Olympics when justifying Babel or Mascheranos slow start to the campaign. Few mention Lucas involvement as a factor in his performance, especially after having come through a tough first year in English football. Also the fact that some of the "fans" started to boo him really hit him hard I think.

I think he's started to show signs of a return to form in the last few games.

I believe that the faith that Rafa has shown in him will be repaid next term. I can see him being a great player for us in 2-3 years time, just as Stevie G is ending his career and needs replacing.

SlickRic

lint316 wrote: »

Plessis would be better choice than Lucas

are we all talking about the same Plessis?

he would not be a better choice than lucas.

just no.

Dublin_Gunner

And me - Spearing anyway. Haven't seen enough of Plessis to make an informed decision.

I've seen enough of 'Yer Man [Lucas]' to last me a few seasons...

rosboy

lint316 wrote: »

ah, I'd have to disagree with you there Mr Alan

Seen Plessis play in the reserves this year? Atrocious. Really taken a step backwards.

Apparently he's befriended his compatriot Itandje and the two are frequently out on the town at nightclubs enjoying the lifestyle a little too much.

Spearing looks a decent prospect, but we've only seen little cameos from him so far in the league. Rafa plays his best players. He if Spearing could add more to the team than Lucas, he'd be playing.

lint316

I think Rafa's been playing him to up his value. He gave Spearing a new contract recently. Don't get me wrong I like Lucas a lot he's never given anything less than 100% for the team. I just don't think its gonna happen for him in England since he's been here for 2 years now. I think he'd be better off getting frist team football in Spain or Italy. I'd personally rate both Plessis and Spearing ahead of him for Liverpool

Dublin_Gunner

rosboy wrote: »

I think he's started to show signs of a return to form in the last few games.

I believe that the faith that Rafa has shown in him will be repaid next term. I can see him being a great player for us in 2-3 years time, just as Stevie G is ending his career and needs replacing.

If a return to form is bad tackling, giving away penalties and brutal passing, then yeah, I agree.

And I seriously hope you aren't in anyway advocating Lucas as a suitable replacement for Gerrard in a few years..... wow.

PiE

You really haven't seen enough of him if you don't think he's good enough to be fourth choice.

Dublin_Gunner

PiE wrote: »

You really haven't seen enough of him if you don't think he's good enough to be fourth choice.

Yes, I've seen plenty of him to know he's not good enough.

In fact, I cannot understand how anyone could advocate his inclusion in a Liverpool 11. Seriously, he's way below the required standard.

Diggy78

SlickRic wrote: »

are we all talking about the same Plessis?

he would not be a better choice than lucas.

just no.

I'd have to agree about Plessis, am really only going on the fact that he hasn't had a look in this year after looking promising in a few matches the previous season. By all accounts he has gone backwards at a rate of knots. All accounts being snippets from lfctv that I've read but really couldn't even try to find links for!!

lint316

I never miss a game. I've never seen any potential from Lucas. His tackling, passing, finishing are all poor. And he has no pace. We're all waiting for him to come good but I've seen no signs of it

slingerz

Lucas played well in a number of games. He was very good v United at OT for instance

Fromvert

Lucas is well capable of being a fourth choice CM, havnt seen enough of Spearing so cant say whether or not he's good enough. Not going to talk about Plessis.

el rabitos

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Yes, I've seen plenty of him to know he's not good enough.

In fact, I cannot understand how anyone could advocate his inclusion in a Liverpool 11. Seriously, he's way below the required standard.

i'd wager that the reason lucas plays and is still at the club is because of what you dont see on tv.

theres seemingly nothing rafa regards more than a player with quality and talent, who is also a very hard worker and has the right attitude.

lucas in rafas eyes, clearly has all of these atributes, so i think we can forget about seeing him move on unless someone comes out with a pretty decent bid for the lad.

rosboy

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

If a return to form is bad tackling, giving away penalties and brutal passing, then yeah, I agree.

And I seriously hope you aren't in anyway advocating Lucas as a suitable replacement for Gerrard in a few years..... wow.

Gerrard wasn't the best midfielder in the world at 22.

Henry was average at best during his first two years at Arsenal.

Before supporters dreamed of "a team of Carraghers", he got loads of abuse from Pool fans after a shakey start to his prefessional career.

When Arbeloa came to us his performance were mixed. Now he's first choice considered one of the steeadiest full backs in the country.

The list could go on endlessly.

The lad was the Brazilian under 20 captain. Due you really think you can achieve that if you are useless? IIRC he was named player of the year in the Brazilian league the year before he came to us.

How many penalties has he given away? Didn't Paul Scholes give away a penalty against Fulham?

Brutal passing? I'll have to dig out the stats I posted here after the United match. His passing was far superior to Carrick's.

SlickRic

lint316 wrote: »

I never miss a game. I've never seen any potential from Lucas. His tackling, passing, finishing are all poor. And he has no pace. We're all waiting for him to come good but I've seen no signs of it

he's not that bad FFS. ridiculously harsh on the lad.

and let me assure you, plessis is an abomination going on this season's evidence.

slingerz wrote: »

Lucas played well in a number of games. He was very good v United at OT for instance

and newcastle away.

it's just too easy to jump on the anti-lucas bandwagon isn't it? as a 3rd/4th choice he's just fine.

look at the patience utd fans have given anderson. and he cost how much more?

at least 10m more.

Mr Alan

Spearing & Plessis have actually both not been at their best in the reserves this year-particularly Plessis who is meant to have gone backwards. Lucas on the other hand has been central to some of our best performances of the year, Newcastle away & Man Utd away spring to mind. Funny to notice that all Lucas' best performances have come when he was away from Anfield....its almost as if the crowd on his back isn't doing his confidence any good!:rolleyes:

I will never understand the stick that lad gets, really won't.

PHB

I think Lucas is a good player. Had a tough first season, but he's settled in. It takes a while for players to adjust their game to English football, everyone expects instant success.