Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

PiE

So far, bar one or two bad performances, Lucas has been nothing if not a steady, reliable midfielder with the potential to improve and become very good. Where the hate is coming from I do not know, but I suspect it's completely based on "that peno".

Can someone dig out the stats for our Win% in games he started?

Dublin_Gunner

My dislike for him as a player was not in anyway based on that penalty. I had high hopes for the lad after we signed him, as Rosboy rightly stated; player of the year, Brazilian under 20 captain etc - I thought he was going to be exactly what we needed.

Instead he turned out to be nothing higher than championship standard really. He's had enough chances to improve, and yes, he may well have been on the pitch in some games that we did well in - it does by no means justify him as a good player. Mediocre at best, and he managed 1 or 2 decent performances. Not good enough. Not for Liverpool.

redzerdrog

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

'Excellent' certainly wouldn't be the first word out of my mouth for describing Lucas.

There's a guy I work with has banned anyone from saying his name. If I want to mention Lucas, I have to use the phrase 'yer man' or my mate gets very upset....

has your mate got some sort of mental illness by any chance:rolleyes:

rosboy

rosboy wrote: »

Gerrard wasn't the best midfielder in the world at 22.

Henry was average at best during his first two years at Arsenal.

Before supporters dreamed of "a team of Carraghers", he got loads of abuse from Pool fans after a shakey start to his prefessional career.

When Arbeloa came to us his performance were mixed. Now he's first choice considered one of the steeadiest full backs in the country.

The list could go on endlessly.

The lad was the Brazilian under 20 captain. Due you really think you can achieve that if you are useless? IIRC he was named player of the year in the Brazilian league the year before he came to us.

How many penalties has he given away? Didn't Paul Scholes give away a penalty against Fulham?

Brutal passing? I'll have to dig out the stats I posted here after the United match. His passing was far superior to Carrick's.

On Lucas passing in the United game:

rosboy wrote: »

Someone on RWAK did this, and I'm shamelessly stealing it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/2294005C09096m1d27Z3?commentpage=1

Using the chalkboard feature on The Guardians website (I've never seen it before now), he compared Lucas passing at the weekend against Carrick.

Lucas only made 4 misplaced passes out of 39, and these were in teh first half. Carrick made 6 misplaced out of 35, 3 of them coming in the 30 min he was on in the second half.

Just shows that his passing was improved, and he covered a lot of ground (Carrick seems to have been a lot more centrally based)

On the reaction to his performance against United:

rosboy wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/liverpool/4991828/Manchester-United-v-Liverpool-How-the-match-was-won.html

Nice to see Lucas getting some good reviews.

Anyone who totally slates Lucas and can't recognise that he has some potential needs to have their head examined. Nobody here is saying that he's first class. We're saying he has potential, and has performed well at times.

At at that, I'm out. I got sucked into responding to ridiculous statements, and with that I kept the topic alive. Apologies to all the reasonable people on here. This is my last post on the topic.

internelligent

TBH I was disgusted when Lucas was booed by 'Liverpool' fans but I feel he's answered his critics in the best way possible. He's been fairly solid for the last while. Maybe not scoring goals or making perfect 40 yd passes every game but solid all the same. And yes, he made a clumsy challenge in the box and gave away a crucial penalty. That day, until that infamous moment, he was having a very good game and to be fair to the lad, I feel it was inexperience that led to it. I for one feel he'll come good and would be very happy with him as a fourth choice midfielder.

~Rebel~

lint316 wrote: »

ah, I'd have to disagree with you there Mr Alan

What, prey tell, have you seen from Spearing to show he'd be a better option then Lucas? He's also looked a bit headless when he's been put in at the highest level (with the exception of when he came on against a frankly distraught Madrid side).

Plessis has gone backwards this year after only being 'ok' last year. Both good prospects to be sure, but Lucas is a class above. Sure, he's no alonso, but a decent amount of the time he doens't look a million miles away.

Dublin_Gunner

I certainly dont like seeing players booed. And I feel anyone that boos a player from their own team doesn't deserve to be called a supporter, but thats a different issue.

I love these 'stats' on players lol
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/2294005C09096m1d27Z3?commentpage=1

All Lucas passes were short, 5-10 yards. And the 4 misplaced passes were all short passes too.

Check out MY chalkboard for Free Kicks:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/m6132c691TG1JrW7qRvs

Lucas V Carrick

See, they made around the same amount of passes, with Carrick misplacing 2 more. Lucas gave away 5 free kicks, Carrick none.

I wont count won free kicks (3-1 to Lucas) as in general they are more a showing of how others tackled than anything else.

IMO Lucas is not good enough. Others here seem to think he has potential still. After 2 years I would have hoped he'd start to show some.

lint316

Your not allowed say you don't think certain Liverpool players are good on here or everyone is jumping on your case. Rediculas really

Dublin_Gunner

lint316 wrote: »

Your not allowed say you don't think certain Liverpool players are good on here or everyone is jumping on your case. Rediculas really

I know. Either that or a lot of people have a very low standard of expectation for players that should be playing for the club.

PiE

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

I know. Either that or a lot of people have a very low standard of expectation for players that should be playing for the club.

Yea that must be it. Couldn't possibly be because you're talking out your hoop.

~Rebel~

lint316 wrote: »

Your not allowed say you don't think certain Liverpool players are good on here or everyone is jumping on your case. Rediculas really

You're allowed to say somebody is not good enough. Thats perfectly fine. Saying that you believe someone like Plessis is better however, is obviously going to lead to you getting stick. Im sure you'd get the same reaction in the United thread if you said Nani was better then Ronaldo.

I have a lot of time for Spearing and could understand that side of things (though i still think lucas is better at every aspect bar bursting forward), but Plessis...just, no.

Dublin_Gunner

PiE wrote: »

Yea that must be it. Couldn't possibly be because you're talking out your hoop.

Definitely not. But thanks for the unwarranted abuse anyway.

SlickRic

lint316 wrote: »

Your not allowed say you don't think certain Liverpool players are good on here or everyone is jumping on your case. Rediculas really

no, that's not true.

you gave reasons why you think he's poor. these reasons were disputed, and for many on here rightly so. you made general statement claiming he was awful at all sorts of facets of the game. people countered, many of which with specific examples of why he is not as poor as you made out.

plus you said Plessis and Spearing would be a better option. which for anyone whose seen those two play is a statement that is plain untrue, and does a massive disservice to lucas.

anyone's allowed to say whoever is bad, but be ready to have a discussion when people do disagree.

lint316

SlickRic wrote: »

no, that's not true.

you gave reasons why you think he's poor. these reasons were disputed, and for many on here rightly so. you made general statement claiming he was awful at all sorts of facets of the game. people countered, many of which with specific examples of why he is not as poor as you made out.

plus you said Plessis and Spearing would be a better option. which for anyone whose seen those two play is a statement that is plain untrue, and does a massive disservice to lucas.

anyone's allowed to say whoever is bad, but be ready to have a discussion when people do disagree.

No, look at the tone in which replies were written. More so to Dublin Gunner than me. Anyway I've had enough hostility for one day so I'm off

UnitedIrishman

SlickRic wrote: »

look at the patience utd fans have given anderson. and he cost how much more?

at least 10m more.

To be fair, almost all United fans will agree that Anderson has been quality since he joined. Even in his first few games he was good, and all he needs to improve on is his distribution. He makes some great driving runs and was superb in games against the likes of Blackburn - and then did great against Gerrard in Anfield in his first year. It's no coincidence that the Stretford End came up with a song within a couple of months of him being here.

Lucas is very much like a Carrick kind of player, and the problem with that is that if he isn't involved or isn't passing well - he looks shocking.

SlickRic

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

To be fair, almost all United fans will agree that Anderson has been quality since he joined. Even in his first few games he was good, and all he needs to improve on is his distribution. He makes some great driving runs and was superb in games against the likes of Blackburn - and then did great against Gerrard in Anfield in his first year. It's no coincidence that the Stretford End came up with a song within a couple of months of him being here.

Lucas is very much like a Carrick kind of player, and the problem with that is that if he isn't involved or isn't passing well - he looks shocking.

i'm not getting into a debate about anderson, but he's still potential; great potential, but still potential. much like lucas. that's my point; not who is better.

and he has done nothing to deserve the stick he so often gets.

Karmafaerie

11 weeks of this!!!!!

UnitedIrishman

SlickRic wrote: »

i'm not getting into a debate about anderson, but he's still potential; great potential, but still potential. much like lucas. that's my point; not who is better.

and he has done nothing to deserve the stick he so often gets.

I wasn't turning it into any sort of comparison, I was stating why Lucas looks a poor player - because of his style of play.

SlickRic

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

I wasn't turning it into any sort of comparison, I was stating why Lucas looks a poor player - because of his style of play.

i could state why he's not, but i've a feeling i'd be hitting my head against a brick wall.

as many on here have done over the season.

Karmafaerie

Steven Gerrard: Liverpool FC fans should support Lucas Leiva
May 15 2009



STEVEN GERRARD is confident Lucas Leiva can prove the doubters wrong and forge a successful career at Liverpool.

Gerrard, the newly-crowned Footballer of the Year, has been impressed by the manner in which the Brazilian youngster has stepped in throughout the campaign.

With Xabi Alonso absent at West Ham United on Saturday, Lucas was quietly effective in the central defensive midfield role alongside Javier Mascherano.

The 22-year-old came in for criticism from sections of the Anfield crowd earlier in the campaign, and upset supporters with his sending-off in the FA Cup derby defeat to Everton in February.

But Gerrard believes Lucas, a £6million signing from Gremio in July 2007, is consistently repaying the faith of Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez.

“Lucas has had criticism from people, and for me that’s unfair,” said Gerrard. “He’s a young lad still learning his trade.

“He does a lot of hard work that goes unnoticed in this team by many people, but we as players notice it.

“He’s come in to a lot of big games where the manager has basically said to him ‘it’s sink or swim’. And for me he has swam.

“He’s done very well for us when he’s been called upon, and he’s certainly got a bright future here.”

Lucas has become the latest Liverpool player to voice his approval of Gerrard being named Footballer of the Year earlier this week.

'nuff said.

Karmafaerie

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

I wasn't turning it into any sort of comparison, I was stating why Lucas looks a poor player - because of his style of play.

His style of play didn't look so bad at Old Trafford.
Or Stamford Bridge for that matter.

UnitedIrishman

I make one point and people get their backs up fairly quick.

I don't think any of you will accept that he's a poor player anyways until his arse is out the gate. No matter, I'm not looking to start arguments over whether he is good or not. Was simply making a point, but that seems to have gone straight over your heads.

internelligent

Karmafaerie wrote: »

11 weeks of this!!!!!

:D:D

Had to laugh. It's funny cos it's true.

missingtime

//Note to new guys, the liverpool fans here get their back up a lot because more often than not people are in here to stir ****.
//You can be critical about players. I am all the time - "Pennant Sucks" - see.

Lucas is proof that Rafa does do the whole arm around the shoulder thing and give him support when needed.

I would have liked to have seen him give similar treatment to Babel who I thought would have more potential eventually.

I'm beginning to thing that Babel isn't a Rafa player.

PiE

UnitedIrishman wrote:

I was stating why Lucas looks a poor player - because of his style of play.

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

I don't think any of you will accept that he's a poor player anyways until his arse is out the gate..

So which is it? Is he a poor player or not?

UnitedIrishman wrote:

Was simply making a point, but that seems to have gone straight over your heads

I think your point has gone over your own head.

Dub13

I dont think this has been posted in here yet.

A new website has been put together about the Boycott of Steven Cohen and his show,have a look its well put together.

http://boycottstevencohen.webs.com/

tok9

tbh i think the criticism of lucas is very un hust sometimes...
I think the problem is that when lucas is on for someone like alonso, people expect him to ping a perfect ball from our own box to Torres foot..
He had an excellent performance against arsenal too. He was our best midfielder in both the wigan and everton games too (just a lack of concentration to give away the penalty and red card)

If we don't get a central midfielder then i have no problem with lucas as our 3RD choice midfielder

whatawaster

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

'Excellent' certainly wouldn't be the first word out of my mouth for describing Lucas.

There's a guy I work with has banned anyone from saying his name. If I want to mention Lucas, I have to use the phrase 'yer man' or my mate gets very upset....

no offence, but this guy you work with sounds like an idiot. I'd be in there the next day with a Lucas badge, watching his tears flow.

Lucas is a good player. He's only 22. People forget that.
Does anyone remember Darren Fletcher at 22? He's become an excellent player imo only in the last year or two.
For me, Lucas has more about his game now than Fletcher had then.
People just expect all players to develop like Rooney or Gerrard.

MementoMori

According to some well-informed people, Rafa has terminated the contracts of several coaches at the Academy/Melwood today. These are likely to be confirmed over the next while, but it’s clear that it’s only now that Rafa has got control over things.

Apparently Gary Ablett (Reserve Manager) is gone, and Hughie McAuley (U-18 Manager) looks like a casualty as well . Also Dave Shannon, Dave Lever have gone along with fitness and goalkeeping coaches.

Parry’s final day is this Monday - his son James who was apparently an U-18 coach :eek::mad::eek: is gone as well.

**********************************************************

Looking at the quality of who has already arrived and who rumoured to be coming in the quality looks to be pretty impressive.

Already confirmed
Frank McParland - Academy Director
Jose Segura - Academy Technical Director http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N164417090516-1319.htm

Rumoured to be arriving

Kenny Dalglish
Garry Mc
Steve McMahon’s brother - John McMahon who is currently assistant at Shrewsbury

Dublin_Gunner

MementoMori wrote: »

According to some well-informed people, Rafa has terminated the contracts of several coaches at the Academy/Melwood today. These are likely to be confirmed over the next while, but it’s clear that it’s only now that Rafa has got control over things.

Apparently Gary Ablett (Reserve Manager) is gone, and Hughie McAuley (U-18 Manager) looks like a casualty as well . Also Dave Shannon, Dave Lever have gone along with fitness and goalkeeping coaches.

Parry’s final day is this Monday - his son James who was apparently an U-18 coach :eek::mad::eek: is gone as well.

**********************************************************

Looking at the quality of who has already arrived and who rumoured to be coming in the quality looks to be pretty impressive.

Already confirmed
Frank McParland - Academy Director
Jose Segura - Academy Technical Director http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N164417090516-1319.htm

Rumoured to be arriving

Kenny Dalglish
Garry Mc
Steve McMahon’s brother - John McMahon who is currently assistant at Shrewsbury

Well I think the academy has always been an area Rafa wanted more control over. Those appointments would be excellent if they come true

Highsider

What goes Beep Beep Beep Beep Beep Beep?






























United's open top bus reversing into the garage :D:D

Chong

Highsider wrote: »

What goes Beep Beep Beep Beep Beep Beep?






























United's open top bus reversing into the garage :D:D

Hope the bus driver doesnt hit the other bus:

mike65

Da dum tshhhhhh!

mayordenis

Chong wrote: »

Hope the bus driver doesnt hit the other bus:

well we were reasonably unlucky.....

Mr Alan

Chong wrote: »

Hope the bus driver doesnt hit the other bus:

i'd imagine his point was rival fans finding us having a bus prepared a couple of years ago seems a little silly when Utd have already said they had a parade planned if they had of won tonight-preperations have to be made for things like that-something Utd fans seemed to find hilarious a couple if seasons ago.

Chong

Mr Alan wrote: »

i'd imagine his point was rival fans finding us having a bus prepared a couple of years ago seems a little silly when Utd have already said they had a parade planned if they had of won tonight-preperations have to be made for things like that-something Utd fans seemed to find hilarious a couple if seasons ago.

Al , Denis come on I was having a pop back jebus :pac: both of ye should know that.

mike65

And we all laughed at Arsenel in 2006 (come on we did!)

Highsider

Sometimes a picture can cheer you up no end

Chong

Highsider wrote: »

Sometimes a picture can cheer you up no end

Hear Hear!



I like this

mayordenis

Chong wrote: »

Al , Denis come on I was having a pop back jebus :pac: both of ye should know that.

oi fecker I though you were smart enough for me not to need to put a pac sign in - next time I will
:pac:
so you know I'm gowling back, ul tonight boss

kaimera

I think we'd have taken barca tonight tbqh.

Mr Alan

it certainly would have suited us more. but we didnt deserve to be there so its irrelevant.

el rabitos

i think barca would have beat us both in a triple threat match

copacetic

kaimera wrote: »

I think we'd have taken barca tonight tbqh.

not sure about that, you would like to think we wouldn't have just watched them play the way utd did though.

kaimera

copacetic wrote: »

not sure about that, you would like to think we wouldn't have just watched them play the way utd did though.

maybe but as good as they were made look I still feel we'd have made more of a game out of it and taken it at some point before penos.

prolly just annoyed we didnt make the final :pac:

mike65

Masch/Alonso/Kuyt would have nullified them enough to make a game of it. Whether that would have been enough to win is another matter.

dannydiamond

kaimera wrote: »

I think we'd have taken barca tonight tbqh.

Maybe,maybe not.
I do know one thing though,no Liverpool team would put in such a gutless performance in a cl final,that's for sure.

jesus_thats_gre

kaimera wrote: »

I think we'd have taken barca tonight tbqh.

I think I have finally figured out why people consider us a cup team and think that we will never win the league.


I posted part of it in the CL Final thread where I pointed out that United's world class players are across the back 4, up top and along the wings but that they are lacking in the middle of the pitch when compared to Liverpool, Chelsea and Barca.

Their midfield is still superior to the vast majority of the PL and when combined with their world class players, they have enough to and do beat virtually all teams that are perceived to be inferior to them.

The last time I saw them beat so well was against us. This was down to our domination over them in midfield.

When playing the best of the best, of which finals tend to involve, matches are won or lost in the middle of the park. Our midfield treo of Masch, Alonso and Gerard are on par or superior to anything that any other club in the world has to offer. This, I think, explains the perception opposition supporters have of us.

We are close lads

kaimera

dannydiamond wrote: »

Maybe,maybe not.
I do know one thing though,no Liverpool team would put in such a gutless performance in a cl final,that's for sure.

we do tend to have entertaining games at the very least!

@JTG: so vs the smaller teams where mf is less important? (are there games were it's less NB?) we're not as effective?

ButcherOfNog

I'm sitting here hoping Man UTD do keep Tevez, and blow a large lump of their transfer budget this summer to get him, which gains them nothing that they don't already have in their squad.