Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

mike65

Well they need to spend money on replacing Park, Giggs, Nani, Hargreaves (I doubt he'll ever be much of presence for them), a keeper to understudy VDS.

jesus_thats_gre

kaimera wrote: »

@JTG: so vs the smaller teams where mf is less important? (are there games were it's less NB?) we're not as effective?

I think so. The spine of the team is as good any of the top clubs but we lack that extra bit of quality and creativity on the wings and in reserve that is needed to open up teams that don't come out and play football against us.

Diggy78

ButcherOfNog wrote: »

I'm sitting here hoping Man UTD do keep Tevez, and blow a large lump of their transfer budget this summer to get him, which gains them nothing that they don't already have in their squad.

This is ideal in my mind too, this and a long career at Utd for Carrick, Park, Nani and Berbatov

kaimera

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I think so. The spine of the team is as good any of the top clubs but we lack that extra bit of quality and creativity on the wings and in reserve that is needed to open up teams that don't come out and play football against us.

tbh, I dont see that mf trio (baring alonso which is why I'd hate to see him leave for GB) as having lots of creativity but are you implying it's not required v big teams?

I dont mean to single out yer post, I'm just interested in your line of thinking is all.

I do agree that we're missing something

[edit]
rumours we're in for 2 boro players?

^^ sorry if it's been posted already, dont have the internets speed to read back a dozen pages at the moment.

Dublin_Gunner

kaimera wrote: »

tbh, I dont see that mf trio (baring alonso which is why I'd hate to see him leave for GB) as having lots of creativity but are you implying it's not required v big teams?

I dont mean to single out yer post, I'm just interested in your line of thinking is all.

I do agree that we're missing something

[edit]
rumours we're in for 2 boro players?

^^ sorry if it's been posted already, dont have the internets speed to read back a dozen pages at the moment.

My take on it was that in midfield, we have creativity, destructivity and penetration. United only ever seem to have one of the above at any given time, but their wing players are good enough to get them the goals when the opposition crowd them out in the centre.

Us on the other hand, rarely get beaten in the centre of the park, and can attack from there too, but when we get crowded out in midfield, we haven't got quite enough on the outside to create the chances when the midfielders are busy.

Imagine a midfield of


Rooney/Giggs..........Gerrard......................Ronaldo
.....................Alonso......Mash/Carrick

And now you should see the point validated

el rabitos

Garry Ablett gone

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/may/28/liverpool-academy-benitez

The former Liverpool defender and current reserve team manager Gary Ablett is to leave Anfield as Rafael Benítez continues his cull of the club's academy coaching network.

Ablett, together with the long-serving reserve and youth team coach Hughie McAuley and the youth coach Dave Shannon, have been told their services are no longer required following an internal review of the club's academy system.

The news comes just 24 hours after Liverpool lost the FA Youth Cup final for the third successive season, beaten 6-2 on aggregate by Arsenal, and with Benítez unhappy at the lack of graduates challenging for first-team places.

The Liverpool manager also recently ended Piet Hamberg's tenure as academy director and announced the appointment of the former Barcelona youth coach José Segura as the youth system's new technical manager.

mcowhey

i dont like the line about benitez not bein happy with the amount of graduates hallenging. The calibre and expectations have gotten so high under benitez where we need a ready made product almost coming in.

Pity to see him go, i wonder would he be capable of managing a lower level team, Chelsea job is still there isn't it

daithijjj

Im not bothered in the slightest that ablett has left. I remember him coming out with comments about insua, saying he wasnt ready yet.

Ive said this about 200 pages back , but i watched insua at the u20 world cup and he was a man amongst boys in that tournament which the argies won. Insua had then, and obviously still has way more football in him than ablett could ever dream of and i saw abletts full reds career.

I totally believe if insua had been given more chances last season and ablett reported correctly back to the gaffer, that benitez might not have blown some cash on the italian sausagemeat that is dossena. Its poosible that rafa may now have seen it this way, purely conjecture i know, however, completely reasonable in my view.

PiE

mcowhey wrote: »

i dont like the line about benitez not bein happy with the amount of graduates hallenging. The calibre and expectations have gotten so high under benitez where we need a ready made product almost coming in.

Huh? You don't agree with him wanting our Academy to produce top players?

SWAR

Pretty gutted to hear that Dr Fahim from Abu Dhabi is close to buying Pompey...if the deal does go through I think it means we won't get Glen Johnson...the one player I really hope we did sign this summer :mad:

dardoz

SWAR wrote: »

Pretty gutted to hear that Dr Fahim from Abu Dhabi is close to buying Pompey...if the deal does go through I think it means we won't get Glen Johnson...the one player I really hope we did sign this summer :mad:

was just thinking that myself

monkey9

Liverpool winger Ryan Babel's agent has dismissed suggestions that his client could be on the way out of Anfield this summer.

Babel, 22, is reported to be one of the fringe members of the squad that manager Rafael Benitez is willing to offload as he looks to raise funds to sign a couple of key players this summer.

But agent Winnie Haatrecht is confident that the Netherlands international will be retained by the Reds.

Babel started just six Premier Leagues games this season.

"We'll get around the table with Mr Benitez soon to evaluate the season," he said.

"He has not had the time to establish himself.

"Ryan left Ajax for Liverpool because he wanted to win trophies and, so far, he hasn't succeeded.

"Ryan wants to leave Liverpool as a first-team player with a prize in his pocket. He is not ready to go."

Dublin_Gunner

monkey9 wrote: »

"Ryan wants to leave Liverpool as a first-team player with a prize in his pocket. He is not ready to go."

Eh, surely thats the case for pretty much anyone who is signed to the club - hardly grounds for a plea bargain.

"please don't sell me Mr. Rafa, I haven't won anything and I'm not yet a first team member.."

Highsider

He has'nt shown any improvement over the spell he has been at the club.

daithijjj

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Eh, surely thats the case for pretty much anyone who is signed to the club - hardly grounds for a plea bargain.

"please don't sell me Mr. Rafa, I haven't won anything and I'm not yet a first team member.."

Im right behind babel if the lad wants to prove himself, the same courtesy i extended to lucas when he was having a difficult time. Id much rather hear stuff like this from a players representative than have the likes of pennant infecting the club with his malaise. Some liverpool fans on this thread are very fickle towards players at times and quite a few would be happy to see the back of babel. It would be great if babel stayed imo and proved himself. He is still a young player and the amount of money spent on him should not be held against him.

I think he still has plenty to offer the club and folk who think hes been given a fair crack at the whip so far should think again. There used to be a time when players needed at least 5/6 games on the trot to get close to any top form, expecting miracles from a lad like babel in the last 10 mins of tight matches is both unfair and unrealistic. I would love to see him stay.

Highsider

I don't know. He reminds me of Baros a lot. Never get's his head up to see what's happening around him.

mcowhey

PiE wrote: »

Huh? You don't agree with him wanting our Academy to produce top players?

no sorry i didnt mean it like that. i guess what i'm trying to say is that players wont be given as much of a chance as gerrard and carra when they first came along cos we're challenging for major honours consistently these days.

Without that chance being given i dont think the academy can produce top players.

Ardent

For the first time Daithi, I have to disagree with you. I have never seen anything in Babel to suggest he'll ever make it at Liverpool. His biggest flaw for me is that, in footballing terms, he doesn't have any intelligence. You can't coach that kind of thing.

Karmafaerie

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Eh, surely thats the case for pretty much anyone who is signed to the club - hardly grounds for a plea bargain.

"please don't sell me Mr. Rafa, I haven't won anything and I'm not yet a first team member.."

Liverpool winger Ryan Babel has pleaded with Rafa Benitez to give him one more season to prove his worth.
The Dutchman has failed to establish himself as a regular in Benitez's starting XI in his second season at Anfield this term.

Much was expected of Babel after a productive debut campaign on Merseyside, but the former Ajax ace has made only six starts in the Premier League this season.

Babel, who recently voiced his frustration with his lack of regular action, has seen his chances limited due to the arrival of Spanish international Albert Riera.

The 22-year-old concedes he is running out of time to establish himself at Anfield, but he wants Benitez to give him the opportunity next season to prove himself.

"In December I'll be 23. When you reach that age, then in my eyes you aren't a potential talent any more," Babel said.

Excuse
"Next season age isn't an excuse any more, and that's an excuse trainers use too often, saying 'You're young and you have the time'.

"My goal this season was to progress to a higher level and be in the starting line-up. But they brought in another left forward in the summer and he's been playing regularly.

"But I have patience and I know that I have to work hard and I have to show the manager that I am ready and have earned the right to be picked."

Babel also insists he has no regrets about making the move to Liverpool despite his current situation.

"What I have learned in a year-and-a-half at Liverpool would have probably taken four at Ajax," added Babel.

"Of course there are times when it isn't going as well as I anticipated, but I see that as a personal test for myself, and it can only make me stronger."


Happy
The Holland international also insists he is happy that Benitez has extended his contract at Anfield despite the Spaniard not using him regularly.

"I'm pleased he's staying in spite of my current role, as there is always a chance that a new trainer says on the first day that he doesn't believe in you," noted Babel.

"Under Benitez I know where I stand and that gives me a certain security.

"In the period when I felt a bit unsure I spoke to him. He was open and told me what parts of my game that I had to improve.

"Since then I have known what I have to do."

That better?!

Karmafaerie

Personally I'd love to see Babel stay.
You won't find a bigger fan than me, and it's a point of humour to many of my friends.
At this stage however, I've set my mind to the fact that Rafa will sell him.
I'm not happy about it, and think that he will be a revelation if he goes.
I've watched him for years.
In Holland before Liverpool, and he has everything it takes.
Rafa knows this, and I'm sure if he had money, Ryan would be staying.
That however is the problem.

Money.

daithijjj

Highsider wrote: »

I don't know. He reminds me of Baros a lot. Never get's his head up to see what's happening around him.

I completely accept that he hasnt done very well this season. But lets just have a more rounded view of the picture. I watched kuyt come in for a similar pricetag, as a striker. Two full seasons past without any sign of greatness from him as a striker and he was given the luxury of any amount of game time. Up until the man city game away this season he hadnt scored a league goal in 11 months. In the interim kuyt has proved his worth on the right but lets face it, pennant has been no competition. Even bennyoun has shown up dirks flaws out there at times with a bit of ingenuity, im referring to the month or two surrounding the madrid games.

All im really saying is babel can still come good and i believe he will, whether its here or somewhere else. Youth is on his side and rafa rarely plays anyone under the age of 24 with any regularity anyway. I was just thinking why rafa turned down his request in january for a 5 month loan, what was the purpose?.....he has barely been selected, very much like crouch was. Its fair enough if babel leaves to make way for a massive signing but how did keeping him for the last 5 months do anything for his pricetag if indeed rafa had made up his mind to sell. Personally, i felt he did well on occasions like against chelsea when he came on for 20 mins on his own up top. He has the pace to hurt the full back which we are also lacking.

You mentioned he doesnt get his head up sometimes but i feel this is a combination of a few things. I dont think he has much rapport with colleagues when he is on the pitch and also i think he may be a little too keen to impress as an attacker which makes him look a bit clumsy when it doesnt come off. I really do feel he can still come good. We would have a serious talent on our hands if he did and with amounts of 7/8mil being banded about i think it would be a steal for another club and really wouldnt make alot of difference in the grand scheme of our transfer budget. Id much rather offload dossena back to italy, hes well ragarded there and picking up 5/6/7 mil for him wouldnt be unrealistic.

MementoMori

Nothing specific but it does seem to indicate that Benitez is at least considering Kelly/San Jose for the 4th choice CB role.

I did read a report a while back about Kelly really impressing while on loan at Huddersfield, even though he was being played as a full-back some of the time. The only way to describe the quotes from the Huddersfield manager were an absolute rave.

RAFA: SAMI'S DEPARTURE COULD BE CHANCE
Jimmy Rice 28 May 2009

Rafa Benitez has revealed how Sami Hyypia's departure this summer could open the first-team door for one of the club's young defenders.

England youth international Martin Kelly and Spanish U21 Mikel San Jose are among a clutch of budding centre-backs waiting in the wings.

While Benitez is refusing to rule out adding to his defensive ranks this summer, the boss is set to include several youngsters in his pre-season plans.

"We will see the young players in pre-season and we can work on different scenarios," Benitez told Liverpoolfc.tv. "We will see all of them and after decide. They are young players with a great future here.

"We will see - it depends on them and also it depends on whether we can find someone in the market who can be good for us at the right price."

Meanwhile, Kelly played 90 minutes as England beat Bosnia-Herzegovina 2-0 in a European U19 Championship qualifier on Wednesday.

The call-up caps a great season for the 19-year-old, who made his senior debut against PSV in December before impressing on a loan spell at Huddersfield.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N164557090528-0854.htm

MR NINE

I genuinely believe that if Babel leaves and goes to the right club (a club that can accommodate his role as a wing forward and that will play him regularly) he will become a very good player. He has a lot of potential theres no doubt about that. Its true that he lacks intelligence on the pitch but he has excellent pace, wonderful skill and a great shot, those features alone can be enough to mould a great forward. His problem this season has simply been down to a lack of games. I made the point before about benayoun finding his form purely because he was given the chance to play regularly. I think if babel was given the same amount of game time as benayoun was given and the same amount of faith that has been shown to lucas during difficult times, he will become a big big player for liverpool.

However, I don't think hes gonna get these opportunities at liverpool unfortunately and the fact that el zhar and n'gog have been ranked ahead of him on so many occassions are a testament to the fact that he doesn't have a glittering future at anfield. Thus I think selling him could be the right move, but still a move i don't want to see happen if that makes any sense.

daithijjj

Ardent wrote: »

For the first time Daithi, I have to disagree with you. I have never seen anything in Babel to suggest he'll ever make it at Liverpool. His biggest flaw for me is that, in footballing terms, he doesn't have any intelligence. You can't coach that kind of thing.

It would be pretty dull in here if we agreed all the time ardent

Do you think its fair to judge a young player who hasnt played 2 games of 90 mins on the trot in 2 years?........I think it was a great shame for babel that he got injured on the eve of the euros too, i hope he fullfills what i know he has in locker.

shotamoose

daithijjj wrote: »

I watched kuyt come in for a similar pricetag, as a striker. Two full seasons past without any sign of greatness from him as a striker and he was given the luxury of any amount of game time.

You can't have been watching very closely. Kuyt scored 12 league goals in his first season (2006/07) for Liverpool. Yes 2007/08 was a poor season for him but then his Dad, who was a huge part of his life and career, did die of cancer that year. But to suggest that Kuyt just mucked about for two seasons until finally perking up this term is nonsense.

Babel's got loads of talent but he hasn't shown either the footballing intelligence or the character to justify a place in Liverpool's team. Kuyt, by contrast, is always thinking and always working for the team.

I've got nothing against Babel personally, and I don't like criticising a Liverpool player. I just don't think he's good enough to be anything more than a squad player for Liverpool. Money being tight, if we can get a good price for him we should take it.

Tusky

shotamoose wrote: »

You can't have been watching very closely. Kuyt scored 12 league goals in his first season (2006/07) for Liverpool. Yes 2007/08 was a poor season for him but then his Dad, who was a huge part of his life and career, did die of cancer that year. But to suggest that Kuyt just mucked about for two seasons until finally perking up this term is nonsense.

Kuyt scored 14 goals in 48 games in his first season playing as a striker, starting almost every game. Considering he was bought on the back of his goal scoring record in Holland, it was very disappointing.

Babel scored 10 goals in his first season from the wing, playing MUCH less and being used as a late substitute more often than not

In his second season Kuyt scored 11 goals in 48 games. He played over 20 games as a striker and was largely disappointing, although he did improve when shifted out to the right, halfway through the season.

Babel scored 4 goals in 38 games from the wing in his second season - however if you add up his total minutes, he hasnt even played a full 10 matches this season

---

I'm not saying Babel is better than Kuyt. Babel has disappointed- but so has Rafas management of him. He doesnt seem to have faith in him and this has been reflected in Babels performances. When you splash out on 'potential' you have to play them. They are not going to improve sitting on the bench. You have to take the leap of faith that they will improve and become the player that you want them to be.

PiE

daithijjj wrote: »

I was just thinking why rafa turned down his request in january for a 5 month loan, what was the purpose?.....he has barely been selected, very much like crouch was.

We're light enough up front as it is, letting Babel go out on loan could easily have turned into a disaster had we had a couple more injuries.

daithijjj

Tusky wrote: »

Kuyt scored 14 goals in 48 games in his first season playing as a striker. Considering he was bought on the back of his goal scoring record in Holland, it was very disappointing. (Babel scored 10 goals in his first season, playing MUCH less, being used as a late substitute more often than not)

In his second season he scored 11 goals in 48 games. He played over 20 games as a striker and was largely disappointing, although he did improve when shifted out to the right, halfway through the season.

Id just like to add that a few of those goals were penalties aswell iirc. Its also fairly obvious that rafa thought he wasnt up to the job aswell.

@Shotamoose, i have every sympathy with dirk for the loss of his dad, he obviously was affected by this, however, excusing away no league goals in 11 months solely on this is a bit ridiculous. If dirk was this badly affected then it wasnt a great idea and detrimental to the club as a whole to have him on the pitch while this episode unfolded. The very same season, lomana lua lua lost a child and turned in a man of the match performance against united at fratton park barely days later. The comparison im making is not flippant but im just trying to emphasise that if dirk was so grossly affected by the death of his dad then he perhaps should never have been on the pitch. Even the harshest of critics would have understood his predicament.

d6

Babel will become a very good player but he needs 90 mins every week

He wants to play upfront, not goin to happen rafa didnt trust him to fill in for torres this season

I like him and hope he stays but can he convince rafa for more game time?

His only chance is to wrestle the left side

He has been lackluster when he has started but I think he has the ability to win everyone over and i hope its at anfield next season

Dublin_Gunner

In fairness, Babel won me over in his first season, its been his dismal displays when given the opportunities this season that I'm terribly disappointed with.

shotamoose

Tusky wrote: »

Babel scored 10 goals in his first season from the wing, playing MUCH less and being used as a late substitute more often than not

Only four of those were in the league. If you're going to make comparisons they should really be like for like.

When you splash out on 'potential' you have to play them.

Not if they don't show any sign of improvement you don't. No manager worth his salt is going to keep playing someone who keeps turning in poor performances. If you really think this season could have been improved by Ryan Babel getting 90 minutes over and over again then I don't know what to say to you.

daithijjj

PiE wrote: »

We're light enough up front as it is, letting Babel go out on loan could easily have turned into a disaster had we had a couple more injuries.

Thats fair enough but when the likes on ngog is coming on before you then it would have to be an injury list of fairly epic proportions. And according to many, he has been so bad that it wouldnt make a difference whether it was him or one of the reserves.

The only difference between him and crouch for example, is that crouch played nigh on every game for 3 months before he hit the net, i think babel would benefit from similar.

They have both watched on as voronin and ngog came on before them.

Kimbot

Personally Babel should be given 1 last year to prove his worth.
He just needs to have some confidence in himself and I think with a good un-injured preseason this year he will hit the ground running.

Karmafaerie

shotamoose wrote: »

Only four of those were in the league. If you're going to make comparisons they should really be like for like.

Okay, Babel scored the exact same amount of goals (3) in the league in his second season as Kuyt in his second, and Kuyt played as a striker as apposed to a winger, and Kuyt played around three times as many minutes, and two of Kuyts goals were penalties.

Better?

shotamoose wrote:

Not if they don't show any sign of improvement you don't. No manager worth his salt is going to keep playing someone who keeps turning in poor performances. If you really think this season could have been improved by Ryan Babel getting 90 minutes over and over again then I don't know what to say to you.

You can say that our opinion is different to his, but neither of ye have anything but speculation to base it on.

Fromvert

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Okay, Babel scored the exact same amount of goals (3) in the league in his second season as Kuyt in his second, and Kuyt played as a striker as apposed to a winger, and Kuyt played around three times as many minutes, and two of Kuyts goals were penalties.

Better?




You can say that our opinion is different to his, but neither of ye have anything but speculation to base it on.

Simple answer, no.

shotamoose

daithijjj wrote: »

The only difference between him and crouch for example, is that crouch played nigh on every game for 3 months before he hit the net, i think babel would benefit from similar.

No, that really isn't the only difference. Crouch's overall game was excellent, and he made a big difference to the way the team played. That doesn't apply to Babel. Please don't try and tell me that he excels at bringing others into the game, because then I'll know you're just being funny.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Okay, Babel scored the exact same amount of goals (3) in the league in his second season as Kuyt in his second, and Kuyt played as a striker as apposed to a winger, and Kuyt played around three times as many minutes, and two of Kuyts goals were penalties.

Better?

A little bit. But then we are still leaving out the non-goals contribution each player makes. Anyone really want to argue that Babel brings more to the team when he plays than Kuyt does?

You can say that our opinion is different to his, but neither of ye have anything but speculation to base it on.

Well I've got Babel's performances (poor) and the team's record this season (very good), but apart from that you're right, I've got nothing.

I'll stress again that I don't have it in for Babel, he just hasn't been good enough. If he stays, plays his way into the first team and holds down a place with good performances, I'll be delighted. And very surprised.

Karmafaerie

shotamoose wrote: »

A little bit. But then we are still leaving out the non-goals contribution each player makes. Anyone really want to argue that Babel brings more to the team when he plays than Kuyt does?

But that's my point in a way, Stats prove nothing.
Kuyt is fast becoming a legend of a player, but for the first half of last season, he was pretty much getting a Lucas level of stick!
I remember these pages being full of people deriding him, and calling for his head.
Now, he's practically an automatic on everyones teamsheets.

shotamoose wrote:

Well I've got Babel's performances (poor) and the team's record this season (very good), but apart from that you're right, I've got nothing.

I'll stress again that I don't have it in for Babel, he just hasn't been good enough. If he stays, plays his way into the first team and holds down a place with good performances, I'll be delighted. And very surprised.

Well I've been a fan of Babel for years, ever since I first saw him playing for Ajax back when I was living in Holland.
I was disapointed when I heard he was linked with Arsenal, and over the moon when we swooped in at the last minute.
Babel in Liverpool has never looked like Babel for Ajax.
He's simply never settled.
He was raised in a very religious family, and came out only a few months ago and said that he was finally happy in Liverpool, as he found a church he was comfortable in.
In the same way that Dirk had problems with his father, Babel had problems with misssing his family.
(When he moved to Liverpool, it was his first time living away from home.)

All in all, I think tha Ryan needs to grow up emotionaly.
If he does that, he'll be amazing.
I just hope he does it at Liverpool.

daithijjj

shotamoose wrote: »

No, that really isn't the only difference. Crouch's overall game was excellent, and he made a big difference to the way the team played. That doesn't apply to Babel. Please don't try and tell me that he excels at bringing others into the game, because then I'll know you're just being funny.


What part of your brain has eliminated the ability for it to distinguish between different arguments on a different topic?

I was replying to a post that was nothing to do with overall play. It was on the topic of whether babel could have been loaned out in january and the cover that was in the squad. So you have then decided in your wisdom (or lack of it) to pull a sentance from a bulk of text and blabber on about 'bringing people into play'.

~Rebel~

daithijjj wrote: »

The only difference between him and crouch for example, is that crouch played nigh on every game for 3 months before he hit the net, i think babel would benefit from similar.

You know what, he probably would, but unfortunately the team wouldn't. At least when Crouch wasn't scoring he added a lot to the team, likewise with Kuyt.

daithijjj

~Rebel~ wrote: »

You know what, he probably would, but unfortunately the team wouldn't. At least when Crouch wasn't scoring he added a lot to the team, likewise with Kuyt.

How do you know that it wouldnt benefit the team?.....

~Rebel~

daithijjj wrote: »

How do you know that it wouldnt benefit the team?.....

When Kuyt isn't playing the best, he adds a lot through his industry

When Crouch wasn't play the best, he added through his flick ons, layoffs etc simply due to his size

When Babel doesn't play well (which we've seen plenty of times) he adds next to nothing. Now, I've seen the guy look electric, but when he's off the boil he's a liability. As I said, games would probably improve him, but I dont think pool can afford to risk throwing away potential points by not fielding the best team for a game.

(By the way in case there was a miss-communication, i didnt mean the team wouldn't benefit in the long term, but that they couldn't afford to carry a player in one of our attacking positions when we have better sitting on the bench)

redzerdrog

i think bable has potentail and if we do get rid of him i can see him becoming a big success. but if he has to go as part of an exchange for someone like silva i would take that.

just added a 2nd person to my ignore list and it felt good lol no one on this thread btw it was the david moyes one.

Karmafaerie

~Rebel~ wrote: »

You know what, he probably would, but unfortunately the team wouldn't. At least when Crouch wasn't scoring he added a lot to the team, likewise with Kuyt.

Babel adds a lot more than he's often given credit for.
When he gets the ball, two or three defenders always seem to surround him.
That creates a lot of space for others.
Neither Kuyt or Crouch are a danger to slow defences with long balls over the top.
Babel makes all defences keep a deep line, again creating more room for Gerrard in the middle, as there's a much larger gap between the defence and midfield.

All things have to be taken into account if you want to get a fair and ballanced overall picture.

Plus, Babel can score from anywhere.

It's six of one....

Babel brings benifits unique to himself, aswell as detriments.

Plus, Babel's probably better with his head than Crouch!:P

DeadSkin

TORRES AGREES NEW IMPROVED DEAL

Fernando Torres has agreed a new, improved contract with Liverpool, reflecting his standing as one of the world's top strikers.
The 25-year old, who hit his 50th goal for the Reds in last Sunday's win against Spurs, was already tied to Anfield for the next four seasons after signing a six-year deal in 2007.

The new contract includes an option for a further year's extension to 2014.

Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez said: "Fernando is one of the best strikers in the game today and, at his age, can only get better.

"Every major side would want him in their team, but he has shown how much he wants to achieve success at Liverpool by committing his future to the club. He's a special talent, but still has the hunger to improve his game."

Torres joins Dirk Kuyt, Daniel Agger, Steven Gerrard and Benitez in agreeing new deals at Anfield over the past two months.

Benitez added: "We've made huge progress this season and now we need to take the next step. We are building something special here and securing such important players on long-term deals means we can move forward with confidence.

"This sends out a very positive message to everyone connected with the club."

daithijjj

~Rebel~ wrote: »

When Kuyt isn't playing the best, he adds a lot through his industry

When Crouch wasn't play the best, he added through his flick ons, layoffs etc simply due to his size

When Babel doesn't play well (which we've seen plenty of times) he adds next to nothing. Now, I've seen the guy look electric, but when he's off the boil he's a liability. As I said, games would probably improve him, but I dont think pool can afford to risk throwing away potential points by not fielding the best team for a game.

(By the way in case there was a miss-communication, i didnt mean the team wouldn't benefit in the long term, but that they couldn't afford to carry a player in one of our attacking positions when we have better sitting on the bench)

Totally understand your point. Do you think its fair to judge a 22 year old on 6 starts in the league in 9months?.......i might stand to be corrected here but i think we got 16 from 18 in those 6. And if i may use the comparison of lucas at this point, hes started quite a few, and the first half of the season he had was pretty poor. Would you not agree that lucas' play has improved once he weathered the storm (and game time), they are a similar age where they need development.

missingtime

Babel doesn't appear to be able to hold the ball up, thus it would be difficult for him to play in a 4-2-3-1 as the lone striker.
By that concusion, either he is sold, going to be an attacking winger or we need a strike partner for him.
Cant see a strike partner for him to be honest.

Karmafaerie

missingtime wrote: »

Babel doesn't appear to be able to hold the ball up, thus it would be difficult for him to play in a 4-2-3-1 as the lone striker.
By that concusion, either he is sold, going to be an attacking winger or we need a strike partner for him.
Cant see a strike partner for him to be honest.

Babel has played very well up front on his own a couple of times.
Chelsea away comes to mind.
And PSV.

Great news about Torres by the way.
Not beause I had any fear about him leaving, but now that'll stop at least half of the "Torres Number 1 Target For City/Real/Milan/Chelsea/Acrington Stanley" headlines.

Tusky

shotamoose wrote: »

Only four of those were in the league. If you're going to make comparisons they should really be like for like.

Err, ALL of the stats I posted for both Kuyt and Babel were in all comps. So it was like for like.

~Rebel~

daithijjj wrote: »

Totally understand your point. Do you think its fair to judge a 22 year old on 6 starts in the league in 9months?.......i might stand to be corrected here but i think we got 16 from 18 in those 6. And if i may use the comparison of lucas at this point, hes started quite a few, and the first half of the season he had was pretty poor. Would you not agree that lucas' play has improved once he weathered the storm (and game time), they are a similar age where they need development.

tbh when Lucas has played 'poorly' I find he adds a lot more then he's given credit for too. My main point though, is that its the attacking positions we really need people on a bit of form, and that hasn't really been Babel at any point this season.

Now, I really do like Babel, but with the performances Riera, Kuyt and Yossi have put in this year, he's 4th choice on merit really. I would have much preferred if he played more when Torres was out injured as i thought he was excellent against Chelsea in that role when he came on, but Rafa obviously preferred the idea of grooming Ngog for that position

daithijjj

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Babel has played very well up front on his own a couple of times.
Chelsea away comes to mind.
And PSV.

Great news about Torres by the way.
Not beause I had any fear about him leaving, but now that'll stop at least half of the "Torres Number 1 Target For City/Real/Milan/Chelsea/Acrington Stanley" headlines.

Yea, i mentioned that chelsea game earlier where did do very well in the 20 mins he played, and of course he scored at psv. Think his next start after that was at newcastle where he scored again.

Obviously great news about torres. Would ge good if barrys future was made up sharpish either way too. Last summer was a calamity.