Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

But he hasn't played there since, has he?

Nope not really. Although I do seem to recall a few games when he was there.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves jsut yet over Villa. Happens so many times in this thread when people lash up a formation with the ''new'' addition.... dont tease yourselves

mayordenis

Deleted User wrote: »

dont tease yourselves

I know I shouldn't let myself even believe this a tiny tiny bit.
But feck it would be unreal if you ask me, or anyone else I guess.

Boggles

mayordenis wrote: »

He has, not often but he has yep. He also said at the time that he wanted to play in the centre of midfield, he hasn't played there a whole lot either.
With our current squad he's playing in the position we need him, who else would do a better job behind torres?

I'm not saying he is not doing a good job.

With Kuyt undroppable at the moment on the right and Alonso being yer best central midfielder in the current system.

It is the problem of accomadating Gerrard if Liverpool were to get a striker of the calibre of Villa, stick him on the left?

This is what Capello has done so he can play Lampard and Gerrard in the same team, because like Kuyt, Capello has fell in love with Walcott.

zing

Villa has made a decision then and his agent is working on making it a reality then:

David Villa wrote:

"I have made my decision," Villa told the press following the game in Bloemfontein after again being quizzed about his future.

"My agent knows my wishes, and he is now working on that - so I am relaxed.

"There is no deadline on the subject, and I really do not have any more details as this whole thing is not totally dependent on me."

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_5386253,00.html

That's an interesting development. I can't see us being in for him at all but it suggests he's going to decide his future rather than Valencia which may result in them being forced to accept less for him than they would have wanted.

Hopefully the Liverpool players in the national team will at least have told him to avoid Utd & Chelsea

As for trying to fit him into the Liverpool team - it's certainly the kind of selection problem I'd like us to have and I'd say Rafa would too

Boggles

zing wrote: »

As for trying to fit him into the Liverpool team - it's certainly the kind of selection problem I'd like us to have and I'd say Rafa would too

Believe me, Rafa does not want the press of dropping either Torres, Villa or Gerrard, look what happened with that bloke from the small island next to big bad england.

zing

Boggles wrote: »

Is Gerrard not on record as saying that playing on the right is a waste of his talents?

He's also on record since as saying he'd play in any position for the team.

Glico Man

This is a formation that Liverpool could use if we get Silva and Villa and monster masch goes to Camp Nou, the much maligned diamond formation with Alonso as a DMC because he's not exactly renowned for his attacking ability, rather his attack starting ability.


Reina

Johnson Carragher Agger/Skrtel Aurelio/Insua

Alonso

Kuyt Gerrard Silva

Villa Torres



This formation would utilise Alonso's range of passing as he could spray them left or right or over the top for the front men.

Boggles

zing wrote: »

He's also on record since as saying he'd play in any position for the team.

So is nearly every player to be fair.

Even Mr. Rooney last week, who is on record as saying he would play anywhere, is getting tired of not playing his natural position.

Kess73

Boggles wrote: »

I'm not saying he is not doing a good job.

With Kuyt undroppable at the moment on the right and Alonso being yer best central midfielder in the current system.

It is the problem of accomadating Gerrard if Liverpool were to get a striker of the calibre of Villa, stick him on the left?

This is what Capello has done so he can play Lampard and Gerrard in the same team, because like Kuyt, Capello has fell in love with Walcott.

I would think a little along these lines, despite how well he has linked up with Torres. There is no way I would have him back in the centre of midfield again, not that I have gotten used to Xabi pulling the strings and setting the tempo again. Gerrard just does not have the ability to set a tempo like Alonso does and he defo does not have Xabi's football intelligence in the centre. For me, Gerrard is a top class impact player and needs to play in an advanced position where he does not have the responsibility of running the show, and has the freedom to pretty much wander anywhere he likes on the pitch.


But, and it is a big but, does this hamper the team from getting players that could nake the difference from coming second followed by talking about what may have been or winning the league?

Was talking to a mate the other day about footy and Real Madrid came into the conversation and my mate asked me if I would take 30 million from Real for Xabi. My answer was "no, but if they give me Snejdier and Van Der Vaart plus 25 million, then they can have Gerrard"


My reasoning was/is that Snejdier could take Riera's slot in the team (Snejdier can play left wing, centre midfield or attacking midfield) as he has the pace, strength and skills for that slot as well as being a leader on the pitch, and VDV would sit behind Torres, and the 25 mil would go a long way to either getting back up for Torres or close to world class for the right wing.


Now you can mix and match different players into the equation, but looking at what Kaka and Ronaldo fetched this season, is it unrealistic to think that Gerrard could fetch a sum between 56 mil and 80mil? I think he could, and that figure would bring in at least two players capable of being match winners with a chunk left over.

---

Torres

---

.
Snejdier/Robben

---

VDV

---

Kuyt/A.Nother
.

---

Xabi----Masch

---

.
Insua/Aurelio

---

Agger

---

Carra/Skrtel

---

Johnson
.

---

Reina

---

Kuyt and Snejdier will run all day in terms of working for the team, both have great engines and Snejdier has a bit of bite about him as well as plenty more skill than Dirk.

Boggles

aaronh007 wrote: »

This is a formation that Liverpool could use if we get Silva and Villa and monster masch goes to Camp Nou, the much maligned diamond formation with Alonso as a DMC because he's not exactly renowned for his attacking ability, rather his attack starting ability.


Reina

Johnson Carragher Agger/Skrtel Aurelio/Insua

Alonso

Kuyt Gerrard Silva

Villa Torres



This formation would utilise Alonso's range of passing as he could spray them left or right or over the top for the front men.

That formation wouldn't work, but it would have a way better chance with Masch for Alonso.

Boggles

Kess73 wrote: »

Now you can mix and match different players into the equation, but looking at what Kaka and Ronaldo fetched this season, is it unrealistic to think that Gerrard could fetch a sum between 56 mil and 80mil?

Gerrard is 29 and not on their level.

Glico Man

Boggles wrote: »

That formation wouldn't work, but it would have a way better chance with Masch for Alonso.

But Mascherano doesn't have any sort of passing capability as Alonso so it would be hard to see where the attacks would begin.

Alonso's passing is there for all to see. He showed in the match earlier today he is probably the most capable 40/50 yard passer there is in the game.

To take him out of the team would see Liverpool struggle to break down teams as seen this season gone.

Boggles

aaronh007 wrote: »

But Mascherano doesn't have any sort of passing capability as Alonso so it would be hard to see where the attacks would begin.

Alonso's passing is there for all to see. He showed in the match earlier today he is probably the most capable 40/50 yard passer there is in the game.

To take him out of the team would see Liverpool struggle to break down teams as seen this season gone.

You just don't win a competition by passing and attacking, at some point in a contest you will have to defend, if you are playing 5 "attackers", playing your most defensive midfielder would make a lot more sense.

A recent example would be Barcalona.

Kess73

Boggles wrote: »

Gerrard is 29 and not on their level.

I agree he is not at their level, but I still think he would move for a huge fee at the moment. What is Kaka's age? 27 or 28 I think.

Boggles

Kess73 wrote: »

I agree he is not at their level, but I still think he would move for a huge fee at the moment.

Chelsea bid 32 million for him in his prime at 25.

He could go for massive money, it certainly wouldn't be anywhere near 56-80 million though.

Madrid may seem foolish, but they are no fools when it comes to making money, I read a report that they are estimated to make 90 million back from these 2 players next season, on merchandising and avertising, etc.

Luap

Boggles wrote: »

Believe me, Rafa does not want the press of dropping either Torres, Villa or Gerrard, look what happened with that bloke from the small island next to big bad england.

Yeah but Rafa didn't even want to sign him, if Villa was to come to Liverpool I am sure Rafa would try and put them all in the starting 11

Boggles

Maloney_o9 wrote: »

Yeah but Rafa didn't even want to sign him, if Villa was to come to Liverpool I am sure Rafa would try and put them all in the starting 11

Yeah he could stick them all in the starting 11, that's not the problem, the problem is if it doesn't work and he has to drop one of them.

Kess73

Boggles wrote: »

Yeah he could stick them all in the starting 11, that's not the problem, the problem is if it doesn't work and he has to drop one of them.

Then it could be Torres that gets dropped. It may seem mad to many on here, but I think Villa is the more lethal of the two in front of goal and Villa's link up play and movement always seems that bit sharper.


Even looking at their goal return for Spain and even at club level over a number of years and Villa comes out on top, especially for Spain where he has played nearly 20 games less for his country than Torres has, but has scored more goals.


But as a pairing, they must be a nightmare for a defence as you go onto the pitch knowing that it only takes one of the to pair to be on top form for you to have a bad day, let alone the two of them onform that day.

mayordenis

Boggles wrote: »

Yeah he could stick them all in the starting 11, that's not the problem, the problem is if it doesn't work and he has to drop one of them.

it will work - problem solved.

Glico Man

Boggles wrote: »

You just don't win a competition by passing and attacking, at some point in a contest you will have to defend, if you are playing 5 "attackers", playing your most defensive midfielder would make a lot more sense.

A recent example would be Barcalona.

but passing and attacking is exactly what barça did to win their treble. their defence is mediocre at best. puyol, a beast on the ground but dreadful in the air, dani alves is your steriotypical wing back i.e bombs on and gets back to help out if he can, pique is decent but lacks pace and abidal is starting to look tired. barça rely on their passing and attacking to get them victories.

They rely on Xavi and Iniesta to bring the ball out of defence to set up attacks. Toure Yaya is there to break up attacks. From watching Alonso's career for a 6/7 years he can break up opposition attacks and set up attack for team mates, hence why Real want him.

Kess73

aaronh007 wrote: »

but passing and attacking is exactly what barça did to win their treble. their defence is mediocre at best. puyol, a beast on the ground but dreadful in the air, dani alves is your steriotypical wing back i.e bombs on and gets back to help out if he can, pique is decent but lacks pace and abidal is starting to look tired. barça rely on their passing and attacking to get them victories.

They rely on Xavi and Iniesta to bring the ball out of defence to set up attacks. Toure Yaya is there to break up attacks. From watching Alonso's career for a 6/7 years he can break up opposition attacks and set up attack for team mates, hence why Real want him.

I think Real see what you have said in Alonso but I also think they see a leader, both on the pitch and in the dressing room, in him, the like of which they have not had in terms of leadership since Hierro was there.

Boggles

aaronh007 wrote: »

but passing and attacking is exactly what barça did to win their treble. their defence is mediocre at best. puyol, a beast on the ground but dreadful in the air, dani alves is your steriotypical wing back i.e bombs on and gets back to help out if he can, pique is decent but lacks pace and abidal is starting to look tired. barça rely on their passing and attacking to get them victories.

They rely on Xavi and Iniesta to bring the ball out of defence to set up attacks. Toure Yaya is there to break up attacks. From watching Alonso's career for a 6/7 years he can break up opposition attacks and set up attack for team mates, hence why Real want him.

3 words: Barca want Masch.

herbieflowers

good to see Boggles' interest in all things Liverpool is as strong as ever :pac:

Boggles

herbieflowers wrote: »

good to see Boggles' interest in all things Liverpool is as strong as ever :pac:

The Gerrard thing is actually quite interesting.

So important to the team, but yet may need to be dropped, from time to time for the greater good.

Tis a pretty unique conundrum.

Daemonic

I have to agree with Boggles on this one, without Masch Alonso would do very little passing because we'd rarely have the ball. Plus its just not Rafa's style, he likes his defensive/destructive midfielder so if Masch were to go he'd be looking to put someone similar in the team.
While Alonso can tackle and win the ball, he plays best when someone does that and passes to him.

If Villa and Silva were to arrive (is it Christmas morning??) then I could see those 2 and Gerrard and Torres playing the formation we do now and just wrecking heads by constantly swapping positions depending on who had the ball, is being picked up etc. They all have the skills and smarts to do it. </end dream>

mayordenis

Kess73 wrote: »

Then it could be Torres that gets dropped. It may seem mad to many on here, but I think Villa is the more lethal of the two in front of goal and Villa's link up play and movement always seems that bit sharper.


Even looking at their goal return for Spain and even at club level over a number of years and Villa comes out on top, especially for Spain where he has played nearly 20 games less for his country than Torres has, but has scored more goals.


But as a pairing, they must be a nightmare for a defence as you go onto the pitch knowing that it only takes one of the to pair to be on top form for you to have a bad day, let alone the two of them onform that day.

I'm not trying to clutch at straws and I understand it will come across that way but..Torres was playing for spain since he was 19 - he was gaining alot of appearances for the national team while he was still developing.

Likewise he was playing at athletico from 17 and bar the odd ridiculous exception your not going to be banging in goals for a team who were while he was there mostly mid table.

Villa on the other hand didn't play for spain until he was 23 and didn't get a change in la liga til he was 21, and as a pretty big Valencia fan I can say he played in a team (bar the last 2 seasons) that were superior to Athleti - but I am defiantely biased about that.

Saying that I think they are both excellent but it has to be looked at with everything considered.

Glico Man

Kess73 wrote: »

I think Real see what you have said in Alonso but I also think they see a leader, both on the pitch and in the dressing room, in him, the like of which they have not had in terms of leadership since Hierro was there.

I completely agree. He has a sort of orchestra conductor/quarterback feel about him when he's on the ball.

Conducting the tempo of the team's game and when the chips are down you can count on him. I would say he was our most important and improved player this year. If we can hang onto him and add some all round quality to the first team I can see us winning the title.

There's no coincidence to us being so close to the title last season and alonso being on top form. In fact I think we should build the team around him like argentina did with veron when he used to be good

Boggles

aaronh007 wrote: »

In fact I think we should build the team around him like argentina did with veron when he used to be good

He is the current South American footballer of the year.

Kess73

mayordenis wrote: »

I'm not trying to clutch at straws and I understand it will come across that way but..Torres was playing for spain since he was 19 - he was gaining alot of appearances for the national team while he was still developing.

Likewise he was playing at athletico from 17 and bar the odd ridiculous exception your not going to be banging in goals for a team who were while he was there mostly mid table.

Villa on the other hand didn't play for spain until he was 23 and didn't get a change in la liga til he was 21, and as a pretty big Valencia fan I can say he played in a team (bar the last 2 seasons) that were superior to Athleti - but I am defiantely biased about that.

Saying that I think they are both excellent but it has to be looked at with everything considered.

I agree that Torres started younger at a higher level, and you make some valid points, but if I were to ask you which one would score the most goals playing without the other at either Liverpool or for Spain, which would you chose?


I would still go for Villa, but that is no knock on Torres as both are world class in my opinion.

Headshot

Boggles wrote: »

He is the current South American footballer of the year.

and still first pick in his position in the Argentina side

mayordenis

Kess73 wrote: »

I agree that Torres started younger at a higher level, and you make some valid points, but if I were to ask you which one would score the most goals playing without the other at either Liverpool or for Spain, which would you chose?


I would still go for Villa, but that is no knock on Torres as both are world class in my opinion.

I'd probably just about agree.

Boggles

Kess73 wrote: »

I agree that Torres started younger at a higher level, and you make some valid points, but if I were to ask you which one would score the most goals playing without the other at either Liverpool or for Spain, which would you chose?


I would still go for Villa, but that is no knock on Torres as both are world class in my opinion.

Who really cares about Spain.

Nailed on Torres for Liverpool though, Why? Because he has proven it.

Glico Man

Boggles wrote: »

He is the current South American footballer of the year.

:eek::eek::eek: did not know that.

Boggles

aaronh007 wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek: did not know that.

To be honest with you I didn't know it up til last week either.

He has turned into quite the beast though.

Glico Man

Boggles wrote: »

To be honest with you I didn't know it up til last week either.

He has turned into quite the beast though.

he's still going strong at 33.

wonder how riquelme is doing?

also must say i'm surprised that rafa has released young scot, gary mackay-steven. after watching him play myself i thought he was a good prospect.

Glico Man

Just got this off SSN

No bids yet for Defour
Player tempted by Liverpool and Villa

Steven Defour's agent has confirmed that there is yet to be any bids lodged for his charge.

The 21-year-old Belgian international has been linked with a host of clubs, with Liverpool and Aston Villa said to be leading the chase to land him.

The Standard Liege midfielder is tempted by the prospect of both Liverpool and Villa, but Paul Stefani insists a deal is not yet in place.

"There has been a lot of interest, but Standard have yet to receive any official bids," he told Nieuwsblad.

"Aston Villa and Liverpool are great clubs where Steven would certainly enjoy playing.

"Would Standard let him go? Everything depends on the offer. Manchester United said Cristiano [Ronaldo] would not be sold."

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_5386238,00.html

Mr Alan

Gerrard is better than Kaka.

Thats all i have to say on that.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Gerrard is better than Kaka.

Thats all i have to say on that.

Jesus Al, did a English Tabloid Journalist hack your account?

jesus_thats_gre

Mr Alan wrote: »

Gerrard is better than Kaka.

Thats all i have to say on that.

I am completely unwilling to get drawn into another retarded argument but to say that Kaka is of a different class to Gerard is downright stupid.

Who is better is a pointless argument and can never be conclusively answered.

PHB

Has this entire forum forgotten that transfer prices depend on awful lot on what age the player is?

Boggles

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I am completely unwilling to get drawn into another retarded argument but to say that Kaka is of a different class to Gerard is downright stupid.

Who is better is a pointless argument and can never be conclusively answered.

It would prob get the thread up to the 20,000 mark though.

Guy:Incognito

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I am completely unwilling to get drawn into another retarded argument but to say that Kaka is of a different class to Gerard is downright stupid.

Who is better is a pointless argument and can never be conclusively answered.

Reina is better than both of them.:)

Kaka cant play right full to save his life either.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Chelsea bid 32 million for him in his prime at 25.

.

He's in his prime now Boggles in case you haven't noticed.

Your lack of knowledge about LFC really shows.

Btw, no Liverpool fan would swap Gerrard for any other player.

No player in the world can touch him in the position he plays and the job he does.

Mr Alan

PHB-while it seems to be the case this summer, its also true to say that a lot of the most expensive transfers of all time have been for people in their "prime" (ie:late twenties)

and Boggles, no one has hacked my account, if i'm being honest i think Gerrard, even with all the praise he gets is among the most under-rated players around, particularly by rival fans. when he finishes playing, i think he'll probably deserve to be remembered as the greatest player ever to play in the premier league.

Boggles

rarnes1 wrote: »

He's in his prime now Boggles in case you haven't noticed.

Your lack of knowledge about LFC really shows.

Oh dear

Do I honestly need to explain that a players age directly influences the transfer fee?

Please say I don't do I?

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

PHB-while it seems to be the case this summer, its also true to say that a lot of the most expensive transfers of all time have been for people in their "prime" (ie:late twenties)

It was true of Zidane, but he his mentioned in the same breath as Pele and Maradona.

Gerrard is 29, he not going anywhere for 80 million.

Mr Alan wrote: »

and Boggles, no one has hacked my account, if i'm being honest i think Gerrard, even with all the praise he gets is among the most under-rated players around, particularly by rival fans. when he finishes playing, i think he'll probably deserve to be remembered as the greatest player ever to play in the premier league.

Already given to either Giggs or Scholes and deservedly so.

Kess73

rarnes1 wrote: »

He's in his prime now Boggles in case you haven't noticed.

Your lack of knowledge about LFC really shows.

Btw, no Liverpool fan would swap Gerrard for any other player.

No player in the world can touch him in the position he plays and the job he does.

The highlighted line made me chuckle.


Maybe not for any one player, but I would swap him for a number of players as long as they were of a certain class and improved the team as a whole.


While those players would not be in his class individually, they may suit the team structure better.

kingshankly

Gerrard for me is the most indespensible player in the world

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

Oh dear

Do I honestly need to explain that a players age directly influences the transfer fee?

Please say I don't do I?

Zidane.
Figo.

both older than Gerrard when they made their "world record transfer fee moves"

but i have no doubt you'll explain why that is different :rolleyes:

Kess73

I would disagree with you, KingShankly, but I can easily see why a player like him would be seen as pretty much irreplaceable by the majority of people.