Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

ecoli

spockety wrote: »

Rafa has acknowledged that part of the logic is to acquire more english players to cope with the new champions league rules.

Personally i dont think this will be implemented especially if Spanish teams start to challenge the English dominance in Europe

zing

Itandje off to Malaga ?

Yes please but then anywhere will do really

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_5397936,00.html

ecoli

~Rebel~ wrote: »

yeah, agger, skrtel, arbeloa, reina, insua, aurelio masch are rubbish defensive buys alright. only poor defensive buy was dossena. josemi was cheap, and got us kromkamp for free, both grand backup. also worth noting he made carra the defender he is today.

i dont need to argue your strengthening my argument already......... just beacuse a player is cheap dont justify them as a bad buy is a bad buy no matter how much you spend

5starpool

ecoli wrote: »

Should have looked abroad it would have cost less for a player of equal talent though i feel he will be less of a flop than some of Benitez defensive buys

flahavaj wrote: »

No great victory to be fair.

Ya, Agger, Skrtl, Reina, Arbeloa, Aurelio and Insua are all terrible.

I'm sure you will mention several who have not been great, and then people will list players for other teams who were bought and flopped. Tit for tat, etc.

Just thought I'd try to save ye guys the bother.

jesus_thats_gre

ecoli wrote: »

Should have looked abroad it would have cost less for a player of equal talent though i feel he will be less of a flop than some of Benitez defensive buys

Off the top of my heard, in the 5 seasons he has signed the following defensive players:

Mascherano - paid 18m

Undoubted success and possibly the best defensive midfielder in the world.

Sissoko - paid 5.6m

Successful time at the club and went to Juventus for for 8.2m

Skrtel - Paid 6.5m

Undoubted success and developing into an exceptional central defender

Agger - Paid 5.8m

Undoubted success and developing into an exceptional central defender

Dossena - Paid 7m

Proved to be a pretty poor purchase. Hopefully Juve will take him off our hands and allow us to recover a chunk of cash.

Arbeloa - Paid 2.5m

Undoubted success and will likely leave for Real Madrid for 8m despite only having 1 years left on his contract. Good business.

Aurelio - Free

Undoubted success. Good business.

Degan - Free

Been injured all season so can't form an opinion. Could leave the club this summer for 1 or 2m if we are lucky. Good business.

Paletta - Paid 2m

Didn't settle well in England and returned home with Insua coming the other way. Good business.

Insua - Swapped for Paletta

Excellent youth prospect. Good business.

Josemi - Paid 2m

Proved to be a pretty poor purchase.

Kromkamp - Swapped for Josemi

Proved to be a pretty poor purchase but was sold on for 1.75m. Good business.

Johnson - Paid 15m

Too early to form an opinion.

Strikes me as being a decent enough record so far. 1 or 2 duds that ultimately cost us next to nothing.


Whatever about what you perceived to be the case, that list shows that you are far too quick to criticise. His record in buying defensive players, largely on an extremely limited budget, is second to virtually no one in the league.

Add to that the players that we were in for but missed on due to budgetary constraints and I have ultimate faith in him when it comes to his eye for defensive players - Vidic and Alves being the two major ones.

Karmafaerie

ecoli wrote: »

i dont need to argue your strengthening my argument already......... just beacuse a player is cheap dont justify them as a bad buy is a bad buy no matter how much you spend

i'm sorry to break the news to you - maybe you should sit down for this - but 7 is a bigger number than 3.

I'm not going to even give creedace to the fact that you emboldened insua, as I can't understand people when they're talk out of their ar$e.

Karmafaerie

Morzadec wrote: »

Ha that's hilarious! The one they're fighting about is very hot I must say, whatever Mihailov might think

His new girlfriend is hotter though.;)

PHB

I think you'd be foolish to criticise Rafa's record of buying defensive players. He's fallen down with his offensive purchases, not his defensive ones.

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote: »

I think you'd be foolish to criticise Rafa's record of buying defensive players. He's fallen down with his offensive purchases, not his defensive ones.

Yup, if you said that his record of buying wingers is pretty average, there is little or nothing you could say counter it.

Morzadec

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I'm not going to even give creedace to the fact that you emboldened insua, as I can't understand people when they're talk out of their ar$e.

In fairness people, this Ecoli chap is the same poster who, on the forecast thread, was gobsmacked at someone's prediction of Barca retaining the CL title, saying that they could never win it again with that weak defence, and if they played Chelsea again or in an form United, wouldn't have a chance :rolleyes:. Now I'm not one of those people claiming that this Barca team are the greatest to have ever played football, but clearly they are quality and are rightly slight favourites ahead of the English 3 and Real Madrid for the CL in 2010. And this guy is writing them off.

And he's now also claiming that Rafa's defensive buys are poor :eek:. Pretty laughable.

So I'm thinking he's either a WUM or has a very poor knowledge of football.

Or is Eamonn Dunphy...

jesus_thats_gre

Morzadec wrote: »

was gobsmacked at someone's prediction of Barca retaining the CL title, saying that they could never win it again with that weak defence, and if they played Chelsea again or in an form United, wouldn't have a chance :rolleyes:.

I personally believe that if Barca were to play that same Chelsea side 10 times over the course of a season, that Chelsea would come out on top 6 out of those 10 times.

Morzadec

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I personally believe that if Barca were to play that same Chelsea side 10 times over the course of a season, that Chelsea would come out on top 6 out of those 10 times.

Okay that's a fair enough opinion (I would possibly give Barca a 6 to 4 edge but its a close call). Saying Barca have very little chance of retaining the Champions League trophy is not a fair opinion though.

DSB

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Off the top of my heard, in the 5 seasons he has signed the following defensive players:

Mascherano - paid 18m

Undoubted success and possibly the best defensive midfielder in the world.

Sissoko - paid 5.6m

Successful time at the club and went to Juventus for for 8.2m

Skrtel - Paid 6.5m

Undoubted success and developing into an exceptional central defender

Agger - Paid 5.8m

Undoubted success and developing into an exceptional central defender

Dossena - Paid 7m

Proved to be a pretty poor purchase. Hopefully Juve will take him off our hands and allow us to recover a chunk of cash.

Arbeloa - Paid 2.5m

Undoubted success and will likely leave for Real Madrid for 8m despite only having 1 years left on his contract. Good business.

Aurelio - Free

Undoubted success. Good business.

Degan - Free

Been injured all season so can't form an opinion. Could leave the club this summer for 1 or 2m if we are lucky. Good business.

Paletta - Paid 2m

Didn't settle well in England and returned home with Insua coming the other way. Good business.

Insua - Swapped for Paletta

Excellent youth prospect. Good business.

Josemi - Paid 2m

Proved to be a pretty poor purchase.

Kromkamp - Swapped for Josemi

Proved to be a pretty poor purchase but was sold on for 1.75m. Good business.

Johnson - Paid 15m

Too early to form an opinion.

Strikes me as being a decent enough record so far. 1 or 2 duds that ultimately cost us next to nothing.


Whatever about what you perceived to be the case, that list shows that you are far too quick to criticise. His record in buying defensive players, largely on an extremely limited budget, is second to virtually no one in the league.

Add to that the players that we were in for but missed on due to budgetary constraints and I have ultimate faith in him when it comes to his eye for defensive players - Vidic and Alves being the two major ones.

To be honest the fact that you have Paletta and Kromkamp in there as good business kind of says it all.

~Rebel~

ecoli wrote: »

i dont need to argue your strengthening my argument already......... just beacuse a player is cheap dont justify them as a bad buy is a bad buy no matter how much you spend

Frankly thats rubbish. A player brought in on the cheap to play backup to a top notch RB (Finnan) does not have to be a massive success, merely exist and fill in now and again.They came, fulfilled their purpose completely and went. When Finnan pushed on and we needed a new first choice RB, Rafa went a got one in Arbeloa, and again cheap cover was also gotten. They were never bought to be world beaters, merely backups. (A case could be made that Josemi was bought to be challenge Finnan but Finnan rightfully won out as he was much better, Josemi after a very bright start faded after a bad head injury).

Dossena on the other hand Was bought in to be a first 11 player regularly, but wasn't good enough, and so didn't filfull his purpose, ergo, bad signing.

imo a bad signing is one who comes with an expectation from the manager and staff, and doesn't meet it. If the expectation is a solid performer, nothing special (exactly what josemi and kromkamp were, not bad, not awesome) and thats what they turn out to be, well then Bully.

All in all, defensively, Rafa's good ones far outway his bad, and in particular when he has more then 2mill or so to spend, consistently unearths pure Gold.

mike65

DSB

Why? Paleta gave us Insua ergo good business.

jesus_thats_gre

DSB wrote: »

To be honest the fact that you have Paletta and Kromkamp in there as good business kind of says it all.

They were good in a business sense.. They were bought, didn't work out and were moved on for either a profit or were traded for a superior player, i.e. good business.

Kromcamp was actually ok and I would bet money that you never saw Paletta actually play.

DSB

mike65 wrote: »

DSB

Why? Paleta gave us Insua ergo good business.

I imagine Insua could have been gotten at a cheaper rate than the 2 million Paletta was signed for, somehow I don't think Paletta's value was the same going back.

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

They were good in a business sense.. They were bought, didn't work out and were moved on for either a profit or were traded for a superior player, i.e. good business.

Kromkamp wasn't at a profit or traded for a superior player, how do you get this good business thing?

~Rebel~

DSB wrote: »

I imagine Insua could have been gotten at a cheaper rate than the 2 million Paletta was signed for, somehow I don't think Paletta's value was the same going back.

Insua was pretty highly rated at that time, had just done very well in an underage tournement. Same one Garay got spotted in. Whether or not his value was 2mill (wouldn't be surprised if it was), he's not worth a lot more then that, so we let go of an inferier player, and brought in one who could dominate the position for years to come, pretty good move all round.

Kromkamp wasn't at a profit or traded for a superior player, how do you get this good business thing?

I didn't think Kromkamp was a bad player at all. Not exceptional, but grand. Pretty solid when occasionally called in to stand in for Finnan, was on the Dutch international team while with us, and left to get more first team football to get back into it. Not as good business as the others, but id have him down as a neutral at worst.

DSB

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Insua was pretty highly rated at that time, had just done very well in an underage tournement. Same one Garay got spotted in. Whether or not his value was 2mill (wouldn't be surprised if it was), he's not worth a lot more then that, so we let go of an inferier player, and brought in one who could dominate the position for years to come, pretty good move all round.

I didn't think Kromkamp was a bad player at all. Not exceptional, but grand. Pretty solid when occasionally called in to stand in for Finnan, was on the Dutch international team while with us, and left to get more first team football to get back into it. Not as good business as the others, but id have him down as a neutral at worst.

Whatever about Kromkamp, I reckon he was muck, but you're pretty much describing why Insua was a good signing there, not saying why Paletta was good business. I'm not debating that Insua might turn out to be very good business.

jesus_thats_gre

DSB wrote: »

Kromkamp wasn't at a profit or traded for a superior player, how do you get this good business thing?

Josemi was signed for 2 million. Kromkamp arrived as a direct swap for Josemi. Kromkamp was sold for Kromcamp was then sold on for 1.75 million due to Kromkamp being homesick.

Arbeloa then arrived in the next transfer window for 2.5 million. It is looking increasingly likely that Arbeloa is going to go to Real Madrid for 10 million.

Wasn't exactly tragically bad series of events, was it? Someone said that Rafa has a bad record of signing defensive players and I pointed out that it is actually pretty good.

DSB

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Josemi was signed for 2 million. Kromkamp arrived as a direct swap for Josemi. Kromkamp was sold for Kromcamp was then sold on for 1.75 million due to Kromkamp being homesick.

Arbeloa then arrived in the next transfer window for 2.5 million. It is looking increasingly likely that Arbeloa is going to go to Real Madrid for 10 million.

Wasn't exactly tragically bad series of events, was it? Someone said that Rafa has a bad record of signing defensive players and I pointed out that it is actually pretty good.

Losing 250k aswell as spending wages on a bad player isn't good business. I'm not trying to run Rafa into the ground here, I rate him. I'm just disagree with you calling it good business. Course its not losing millions on a player but sure thats never a risk when you sign a player so cheap is it? Also if you look at it another way, Liverpool suffered from having bad players on the pitch which affected them financially I'm sure. I'm not criticising Rafa's defensive signings in general, just disagreeing with you calling them 2 good business.

jesus_thats_gre

DSB wrote: »

Losing 250k aswell as spending wages on a bad player isn't good business. I'm not trying to run Rafa into the ground here, I rate him. I'm just disagree with you calling it good business. Course its not losing millions on a player but sure thats never a risk when you sign a player so cheap is it? Also if you look at it another way, Liverpool suffered from having bad players on the pitch which affected them financially I'm sure. I'm not criticising Rafa's defensive signings in general, just disagreeing with you calling them 2 good business.

Fair enough. As individuals I can certainly see where you are coming from but they largely (Josemi was rubbish) done what was expected from them while they were at the club and then were moved on for at worst a tiny loss and replaced with a superior player for a small additional outlay all while other clubs that we were competing with were spending big bucks on players in similar positions. I personally feel that that is good business in terms of the big picture.

DSB

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Fair enough. As individuals I can certainly see where you are coming from but they largely (Josemi was rubbish) done what was expected from them while they were at the club and then were moved on for at worst a tiny loss and replaced with a superior player for a small additional outlay all while other clubs that we were competing with were spending big bucks on players in similar positions. I personally feel that that is good business in terms of the big picture.

And the other clubs you were competing with were being successful, surely you can see my point?

~Rebel~

DSB wrote: »

And the other clubs you were competing with were being successful, surely you can see my point?

thats true, but its kind of apples and oranges. Liverpool simply didn't have the option of shelling out, particularly in a position where the first choice was one of the most consistent, injury free players on the team.

It had to be a cheapo, so when that cheapo turns out to not usually make a loss, and sometimes net a profit, happy days. It was those types of players who allowed Rafa to build what he has today, slowly slowly upgrading and being shrewd with his money.

jesus_thats_gre

DSB wrote: »

And the other clubs you were competing with were being successful, surely you can see my point?

I do see your point but I also don't agree that renting is dead money..

Bad business would be incurring the wages, not having use of a player or hom being **** and selling him on for a massive loss 6 or 12 months later.

I don't rate Josemi as being a good player but he done a job of us when he was needed. He was then moved on pretty quickly and was effectively replaced with a better player 250k. Kromkamp also done a job for us when needed and was moved on due to being homesick.

Anyway, we generally have the same opinion on his defensive signings, disagree on one or two players and have a different views on what is good business or not.

Boggles

Dunmanway Town V. Liverpool August 6th

Any Scouse down south might want to secure the tickets soon enough, I wouldn't say there will be many of them.

mike65

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/kop-this-ndashpool-to-take-on-west-corks-best--94769.html

PiE

You know things are nice and quiet when Rafa's defensive purchases are being debated again.

finbarrk

mike65 wrote: »

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/kop-this-ndashpool-to-take-on-west-corks-best--94769.html

Thats gas. Must look for Dunmanway on the map now.

Mr Alan

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Yup, if you said that his record of buying wingers is pretty average, there is little or nothing you could say counter it.

nothing you could say....

but you could just post this picture.....

daithijjj

Christ, ive been to cork around 5 times in my whole life and 2 of those times were in dunmanway, haha. Culture shock in store for the reds :pac:

mike65

todays total nonsense

According to Spanish radio Liverpool have managed to find the funds to make a massive bid for David Villa of Valencia.

It has seemed to be a certainty that Villa would stay in Spain but the reporter on Valencia radio stated that David Villa’s head may have been turned by Fernando Torres and that while he still wants to stay in Spain the one club he would join outside Spain is Liverpool.

Liverpool’s finances have improved it appears and they are ready to test Valencia and David Villa with a very big offer, they are very serious by all accounts and feel confident that they stand a good chance of getting him.

In Marca today the battle lines are being drawn by Barcelona and Real Madrid and with Liverpool now entering the battle it is now purely down to the player and with Torres in Villa’s ear it may not be so far fetched that David Villa indeed becomes a Liverpool player.

Karmafaerie

I think you'll all join me in saying "Fu€k you Mr. Messi!"

Lionel Messi has again urged Liverpool midfielder Javier Mascherano to consider a move to Barcelona.

The Argentine forward admits he would relish the opportunity to play alongside his fellow countryman at club level.

Following speculation he could leave Anfield this summer, Mascherano has been highly touted for a move to Camp Nou.

Admitting to being flattered by reported interest from the Spanish champions, as well as Real Madrid, the 25-year-old has dropped his biggest hint yet that he may switch to La Liga.

Encouraging his compatriot to consider a move to Barca, Messi admits a possible deal is exciting for him and the club.

"Of course I would like him to join," he told El Mundo Deportivo.

"Who would not want to play with great players like Javier? I hope he can come here."

Targets
Messi admitted that his main target next term is to add to Barca's flourishing trophy cabinet.

He also spoke of his international ambition, saying: "There are two things I would wish for and the first is that Barcelona can win more trophies, the second is for Argentina to win the World Cup next year.

"We (Barca) can dream about another treble, but it will be extremely difficult."

Asked his opinion on Cristiano Ronaldo's impending £80million move to Real Madrid, he said: "If there is a club that sells and a club willing to buy then that is that.

"I am not going to enter into the rights and wrongs because that is not my place, I just play.

"It does seem like a big fee, but as I have said it is not really my place."

event

Mr Alan wrote: »

nothing you could say....

but you could just post this picture.....

technically he didnt buy him as a winger though, he converted him;)

eoin99

:eek::eek: Had to check the calender to see if it wasnt April 1st...

I play in the West Cork league, not with Dunmanway, but don't know how this could seriously go ahead, at best you can fit around 5 cars outside thier pitch, never mind trying to get a team bus down the country road to get to it. The dressing rooms can fit a full 11 at a stretch...pitch could seriously injure the entire Liverpool squad...

Surely they would have to play this somewhere like Turners Cross if it is actually true..

5starpool

It's not the first team squad, it's the reserve squad, so a Liverpool XI, rather than Liverpool. Don't be expecting Torres/Gerrard to be playing.

Chardee MacDennis

well its the day after a game in Austria (i think), i presume it will be a Liverpool XI like our annual game against Crewe etc...

Daemonic

eoin99 wrote: »

:eek::eek: Had to check the calender to see if it wasnt April 1st...

I play in the West Cork league, not with Dunmanway, but don't know how this could seriously go ahead, at best you can fit around 5 cars outside thier pitch, never mind trying to get a team bus down the country road to get to it. The dressing rooms can fit a full 11 at a stretch...pitch could seriously injure the entire Liverpool squad...

Surely they would have to play this somewhere like Turners Cross if it is actually true..

From the article:

The David v Goliath clash will take place at 2pm on August 6, but not on the Dunmanway club’s pitch. "We simply wouldn’t have the space. We’re hoping to attract up to 3,000 fans, so we will be staging the match at Maria Immaculata Community College, in Dunmanway," Mr Buckley said.

Dub13

Nicked from another site.

"Here's a story courtesy of the Spanish journalist Miguel Angel Vara, which was related to me earlier - in case people start demanding sources.

Madrid sent some representatives to negotiate over Alonso and Arbeloa at the end of last week. They offered a straight deal including some of the Dutch contingent (Van der Vaart and Sneijder), then they offered Gago, and then they offered Negredo. Each time, Rafa asked what values Madrid were placing on these players and finally burst into incredulous laughter. "Remind me - who beat whom by five goals to nil in the Champions League? he tells the now flustered Madrid negotiators. "Only it must be us who lost, because my players, whom you are wanting to take away, are worth nothing, whereas yours, whom you are trying to discard, each seem to have higher values". And the negotiations ended there and then!

Priceless. That's the kind of story that makes me realise just how lucky we are with the manager we have. I do feel that familiarity has bred contempt over the last few years for many of the regulars on here, but I hope at least some of them can still appreciate tales like this!

By the way, Vara thinks that the Alonso deal may not happen - firstly because Rafa wants 40million euros, and not a penny less, but also because of his poor relations with Valdano who seems to be in charge of Madrid's transfers - these go back to when they were both on the Madrid coaching staff in the 90s, although of course not helped by Valdano describing Liverpool's style of play as "sh*t on a stick" - Rafa has not forgotten, and certainly not forgiven, that..."

eoin99

Daemonic wrote: »

From the article:

Sorry, just read the article there after I posted....

Karmafaerie

Rafa = Legend.

mike65

Read that earlier, far too good to be a true story I suspect! :pac:

~Rebel~

Dub13 wrote: »

Nicked from another site.

"Here's a story courtesy of the Spanish journalist Miguel Angel Vara, which was related to me earlier - in case people start demanding sources.

Madrid sent some representatives to negotiate over Alonso and Arbeloa at the end of last week. They offered a straight deal including some of the Dutch contingent (Van der Vaart and Sneijder), then they offered Gago, and then they offered Negredo. Each time, Rafa asked what values Madrid were placing on these players and finally burst into incredulous laughter. "Remind me - who beat whom by five goals to nil in the Champions League? he tells the now flustered Madrid negotiators. "Only it must be us who lost, because my players, whom you are wanting to take away, are worth nothing, whereas yours, whom you are trying to discard, each seem to have higher values". And the negotiations ended there and then!

Priceless. That's the kind of story that makes me realise just how lucky we are with the manager we have. I do feel that familiarity has bred contempt over the last few years for many of the regulars on here, but I hope at least some of them can still appreciate tales like this!

By the way, Vara thinks that the Alonso deal may not happen - firstly because Rafa wants 40million euros, and not a penny less, but also because of his poor relations with Valdano who seems to be in charge of Madrid's transfers - these go back to when they were both on the Madrid coaching staff in the 90s, although of course not helped by Valdano describing Liverpool's style of play as "sh*t on a stick" - Rafa has not forgotten, and certainly not forgiven, that..."

Ha, heroic stuff from Rafa if any way true. He has a massive point though, its simple economics, we have something they want, they have things they want rid of, ergo ours are worth more to them then theirs to us.

prendy

Dub13 wrote: »

Nicked from another site.

"Here's a story courtesy of the Spanish journalist Miguel Angel Vara, which was related to me earlier - in case people start demanding sources.

Madrid sent some representatives to negotiate over Alonso and Arbeloa at the end of last week. They offered a straight deal including some of the Dutch contingent (Van der Vaart and Sneijder), then they offered Gago, and then they offered Negredo. Each time, Rafa asked what values Madrid were placing on these players and finally burst into incredulous laughter. "Remind me - who beat whom by five goals to nil in the Champions League? he tells the now flustered Madrid negotiators. "Only it must be us who lost, because my players, whom you are wanting to take away, are worth nothing, whereas yours, whom you are trying to discard, each seem to have higher values". And the negotiations ended there and then!

Priceless. That's the kind of story that makes me realise just how lucky we are with the manager we have. I do feel that familiarity has bred contempt over the last few years for many of the regulars on here, but I hope at least some of them can still appreciate tales like this!

QUOTE]

oh how i want this to be true, pure brilliance from Rafa!

zing

Parry gets himself a new gig - he's to chair an expert panel on sports betting integrity.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/front_page/8116904.stm

Bye bye Coco

yom 1

zing wrote: »

Parry gets himself a new gig - he's to chair an expert panel on sports betting integrity.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/front_page/8116904.stm

Bye bye Coco

As much as I was happy to see him go, I wish him the best of luck to him in his new job.

Karmafaerie

zing wrote: »

Parry gets himself a new gig - he's to chair an expert panel on sports betting integrity.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/front_page/8116904.stm

Bye bye Coco

Mr Alan

event wrote: »

technically he didnt buy him as a winger though, he converted him;)

Like Christ converted the water into wine.

I agree, Rafa is god-like

whatawaster

aparrently there are reports from Greece that we've agreed a 4m deal with Panathonikos for Leto. Great deal if true. I haven't seen any source yet.

Kimbot

There was something on Skysports yesterday about a Leto deal alright but it wasn't confirmed.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_5395412,00.html