Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

mike65

Indeed, everytime the 3rd round game is a tight affair. In two weeks fitness levels will be much better and Liverpool are always at thier best when the chips are down.

Mike.

Chardee MacDennis

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Good to see I'm not the only one who's all but out of patience for Alonso.
He's great at dictating the play IF he's allowed to.
All you have to do though is rush him, and he can't respond.
It's not that he doesn't try, he does, but he just needs the time.

wheres that article from? AC arent in the CL are they so how could the fact he is cup tied for the CL affect how much they pay for him? if anyone wants him the price as 15m, everyone knows this by now...

Karmafaerie

BastardPrince wrote: »

wheres that article from? AC arent in the CL are they so how could the fact he is cup tied for the CL affect how much they pay for him? if anyone wants him the price as 15m, everyone knows this by now...

I robbed it off IrishKop.
I think it was from football 365.

Milan are in the Uef Cup aren't they?
He'd be tied for that.

Karmafaerie

Carlesberg don't do stupid, but if they did...!!!

http://www.thepublican.com/story.asp...torycode=60795

Carlsberg partners with The S88 to offer drinks vouchers for 13,000 pubs

Carlsberg is offering drinkers a free pint in 13,000 pubs on the August Bank Holiday weekend in what it claims is one of the biggest ever free pint giveaways in the on-trade ever.

The promotion will run in The S** on Saturday, August 23, and will offer all 3.2 million readers (over 18 years of age) a voucher which can be redeemed for a free pint of Carlsberg on Sunday, August 24.

This week, all pubs taking part will receive promotional posters to build excitement and awareness around the event. All free pints can be redeemed by participating outlets against the average cost of a pint of Carlsberg, reckoned by the brand to be £2.50 in the UK.

S88 readers can find their nearest participating outlet by logging onto [url]www8888888888888888888888

Carlsberg head of on-trade customer marketing David Scott said: “The August Bank Holiday is traditionally the biggest of the year. This year more than ever we wanted to support British pubs with a promotion designed to drive more people through the door with the promise of a free pint on us.”

“With over 13,000 pubs this is one of the biggest free pint giveaways in the on-trade ever. The S** has partnered with us and understands the aim of the promotion, to support British pubs and reward their readers, while encouraging them to go to the pub over the Bank Holiday weekend.”[/url]

Again robbed from IrishKop.

Chardee MacDennis

no he wouldnt. the two competitions dont affect each other...

Karmafaerie

BastardPrince wrote: »

no he wouldnt. the two competitions dont affect each other...

But he wouldn't be able to play untill January if I'm reading the rules correctly, cause Liverpool may end up in the Uefa Cup still.
You can only play for one club per tournament, and if Liverpool were to come third in their group, he's be tied to us for the Uefa as well.

It's all really confusing!!!

PiE

I actually thought Alonso was the only player who looked like he wanted the ball last night. Might not have done much with it, but nor did anyone else.

Karmafaerie

PiE wrote: »

I actually thought Alonso was the only player who looked like he wanted the ball last night. Might not have done much with it, but nor did anyone else.

But it's his job to create chances.
You can't blame the forwards for not getting the ball, or the defenders for not creating chances.

In fact, I lost track of the times that Agger had to bring the ball deep into Liege's half, cause our midfield weren't there for him.

Alonso had a player sitting on him all game, and so did nothing!
Could do nothing.

He got the ball from Agger, he passed it back to Carra.....and so on.
He didn't dictate play, he didn't build from the back, and he didn't - to coin a phrase that some here love - keep things ticking over.

Alonso is supposedly the heart of our team.
What good is that if he can't play when the opposition pressurise him?!

Any team in England can just nullify him, and have done for the last two seasons!

Karmafaerie

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Carlesberg don't do stupid, but if they did...!!!

http://www.thepublican.com/story.asp...torycode=60795

Carlsberg partners with The S88 to offer drinks vouchers for 13,000 pubs

Carlsberg is offering drinkers a free pint in 13,000 pubs on the August Bank Holiday weekend in what it claims is one of the biggest ever free pint giveaways in the on-trade ever.

The promotion will run in The S** on Saturday, August 23, and will offer all 3.2 million readers (over 18 years of age) a voucher which can be redeemed for a free pint of Carlsberg on Sunday, August 24.

This week, all pubs taking part will receive promotional posters to build excitement and awareness around the event. All free pints can be redeemed by participating outlets against the average cost of a pint of Carlsberg, reckoned by the brand to be £2.50 in the UK.

S88 readers can find their nearest participating outlet by logging onto [url]www8888888888888888888888

Carlsberg head of on-trade customer marketing David Scott said: “The August Bank Holiday is traditionally the biggest of the year. This year more than ever we wanted to support British pubs with a promotion designed to drive more people through the door with the promise of a free pint on us.”

“With over 13,000 pubs this is one of the biggest free pint giveaways in the on-trade ever. The S** has partnered with us and understands the aim of the promotion, to support British pubs and reward their readers, while encouraging them to go to the pub over the Bank Holiday weekend.” [/url]

Again robbed from IrishKop.

A friend of mine emailed them about it.

Here's their response.

Thank you for your email which we received via the Carlsberg website.



Carlsberg is pleased to be able to offer consumers one of the largest free pint promotions ever this August Bank Holiday. By working with The Sun, the UK's largest selling paper, Carlsberg has been able to ensure that approximately 3 million people across the UK will be able to enjoy a free pint at their local this Bank Holiday Sunday.



Carlsberg is sensitive to the fact that Liverpool fans feel very strongly about The Sun, and is very proud of its long association with and support of Liverpool Football Club over the past 16 years, and apologises if any offence is felt as a result of the upcoming free pint

promotion.



Kind regards



The Lagers Team

missingtime

Piece about liverpools title chances...

A cup and third place aparently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/2008/08/liverpool_could_fall_short_aga.html

I'm beginning to think that we do need Barry after all.

DeadSkin

Voronin getting cranky

Andriy Voronin has bemoaned his lack of first team opportunities at Liverpool, claiming Rafa Benitez will never give him a fair crack of the whip.

Voronin is said to be attracting interest from Bundesliga side Hamburg, who are managed by former Tottenham manager Martin Jol.

The Ukrainian forward has enjoyed an impressive pre-season, but he has rarely produced the goods when it has mattered for Benitez’s men.

Robbie Keane’s arrival has undoubtedly made Voronin’s route to the top even harder, but the real slap in the face came on Wednesday against Standard Liege when young attacker Nabil El Zhar was preferred as a late substitute.

Voronin is seen as one of Benitez’s sellable assets as he tries to raise funds for one more transfer, and the 29-year-old does not predict a bright future at Anfield.

"It looks as if there will be no honest competition for my position," he was quoted as saying in The Sun.

"I think it has been filled whatever I do."

The Rooster

Can't believe people are giving out about Alonso!

He was by far and away our most effective outfield player IMO, however that still didnt amount to a whole lot because of Liege's excellent tactics. Surely anyone who saw the game noticed that Liege allowed our defenders to pass the ball to each other as much as they wanted. Every time this happened, Alonso had two men sitting on him. It was near impossible for him to get free or be picked out. Often the only option was for him to go back into his own half.

A shocking debut by Dossena. He could hardly have done worse in the first half. Though he did improve in the 2nd. He looks very weak in the air - I'm sure we'll see him targetted early and often in the PL with the crossfield ball when he's up against anyone with any height.

The amount of times crosses into our box were won by Liege players was astounding. I don't think Carragher won one header, and Agger didnt win too many. Hopefully that was just down to a bit of rusty disorganisation. But certainly Sktrel's ranking went up in his absence.

Nice to see Kuyt remind us what he's like 80% of the time. Many fans seem to have forgotten that because of a few good games towards the end of last season.

I've said it before, but Mascherano is a huge loss. One of our most irreplaceable players. When he's there we look far safer at the back and it allows the other midfielders to bomb forward. Plessis is doing okay for what he is, but he's not near the same class.

I feel sorry for Keane. It just hasn't happened for him yet. Its not that he's making bundles of mistakes, he just can't get into games. His runs are often not seen, and then when he does get it he's just a tad over anxious.

Gerrard to return on Saturday - so one of Plessis, Kuyt or Keane to be dropped. Be a sad state of affairs if Plessis retains his place, as it'd mean that Rafa wouldnt trust a central midfield partnership of Alonso and Gerrard to be strong enough to combat the threat of Sunderland....

MementoMori

Karmafaerie wrote: »

But it's his job to create chances.
You can't blame the forwards for not getting the ball, or the defenders for not creating chances.

In fact, I lost track of the times that Agger had to bring the ball deep into Liege's half, cause our midfield weren't there for him.

Alonso had a player sitting on him all game, and so did nothing!
Could do nothing.

He got the ball from Agger, he passed it back to Carra.....and so on.
He didn't dictate play, he didn't build from the back, and he didn't - to coin a phrase that some here love - keep things ticking over.

Alonso is supposedly the heart of our team.
What good is that if he can't play when the opposition pressurise him?!

Any team in England can just nullify him, and have done for the last two seasons!

Totally agree with this, but would also add that Kuyt and Benayoun could have dropped back to offer some support to the central two. I thought they both played too far forward/away from the middle two. Also they left a lot of space in front of Dossena and Arbeloa which Liege used very well. I wasn't sure why Rafa was looking to replace Alonso with Barry but I thought it was very clear from this game. If Alonso continues to play like this I would be looking to start Lucas ahead of him - from what I've seen/heard he's been in fine form for the Brazilians. Might be an over-reaction but I think Rafa would have to seriously consider it if Juve made a new bid for him around the £15m mark.

On Pennant and Voronin not making an appearance- seems a strong indication they might be on the way out - especially with El Zhar coming on as opposed to Pennant - although I can't see the CL in either of their futures, so I'm surprised there was any worry about cup-tying them.

Was a little surprised Ngog wasn't on the bench at least especially given the lack of options on the left-hand side. Given his recent fine form I thought he could have been given ten minutes on a tiring defence at the end. Basically it meant no matter how bad Benayoun played he was assured 90 minutes.

Hoping for a backlash against Sunderland with a hat-trick for Robbie.

missingtime wrote: »

Piece about liverpools title chances...

A cup and third place aparently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/2008/08/liverpool_could_fall_short_aga.html

I'm beginning to think that we do need Barry after all.

Those articles by Phil McNulty on the BBC website aren't the best - the majority of the time he displays his tabloid roots by trying to stir up controversy - Any of the ones I've read always seem to be written primarily in order to prompt responses in the comment section as opposed to writing a decent article.

Alright Voronin that's it - you're out - disrespecting Rafa is the final straw.

missingtime

MementoMori wrote: »

Hoping for a backlash against Sunderland with a hat-trick for Robbie.

The Liverpool fan syndrome is coming out in me...I'm extremely nervous about this match

MementoMori

The Rooster wrote: »

Can't believe people are giving out about Alonso!

He was by far and away our most effective outfield player IMO, however that still didnt amount to a whole lot because of Liege's excellent tactics. Surely anyone who saw the game noticed that Liege allowed our defenders to pass the ball to each other as much as they wanted. Every time this happened, Alonso had two men sitting on him. It was near impossible for him to get free or be picked out. Often the only option was for him to go back into his own half.

A shocking debut by Dossena. He could hardly have done worse in the first half. Though he did improve in the 2nd. He looks very weak in the air - I'm sure we'll see him targetted early and often in the PL with the crossfield ball when he's up against anyone with any height.

The amount of times crosses into our box were won by Liege players was astounding. I don't think Carragher won one header, and Agger didnt win too many. Hopefully that was just down to a bit of rusty disorganisation. But certainly Sktrel's ranking went up in his absence.

Nice to see Kuyt remind us what he's like 80% of the time. Many fans seem to have forgotten that because of a few good games towards the end of last season.

I've said it before, but Mascherano is a huge loss. One of our most irreplaceable players. When he's there we look far safer at the back and it allows the other midfielders to bomb forward. Plessis is doing okay for what he is, but he's not near the same class.

I feel sorry for Keane. It just hasn't happened for him yet. Its not that he's making bundles of mistakes, he just can't get into games. His runs are often not seen, and then when he does get it he's just a tad over anxious.

Gerrard to return on Saturday - so one of Plessis, Kuyt or Keane to be dropped. Be a sad state of affairs if Plessis retains his place, as it'd mean that Rafa wouldnt trust a central midfield partnership of Alonso and Gerrard to be strong enough to combat the threat of Sunderland....

Rooster not to argue with you but I think Alonso was probably one of our least effective players. He saw a lot of the ball but did not achieve anything with it. Given his role was the creative midfielder this has to be put down as a massive failure on his part - While I acknowledge he was tightly marked, I would expect him to be able to cope with this. Quite bluntly he wasnt able to - the old suggestions of him not being able to perform when he is pressured for time and space were strongly illustrated last night. Kuyt was probably our overall least effective player - saw little of the ball and did nothing when he did. Keane was in there as well and I'd agree with pretty much everything you said about him - looks like a player struggling with a price tag and desperate to score his first goal for Liverpool. I'm sure he'll tuirn it around before long though.
The defence might not have been great but they were effective in the sense that at least they stopped Liege scoring - most of the credit goes to Pepe but still and all, they all did contribute some bit to this ( I thought Arbeloa had a shocker - was destroyed by his man and Carra had to come out of position to cover for him numerous times)

I agree about the marking of Alonso by Liege - Benayoun/Kuyt should have recognised this and dropped back to offer options. The thing was though when Alonso did manage to get the ball he didn't manage to do anything positive with it, apart from one through ball to Keane. He had a number of occasions when he misplaced passes and lost the ball cheaply. Also the poor efforts from the free kicks certainly didnt help his cause - did he hit the wall twice or three times (one might have been a penalty with that ref though). His tackling was shocking - could well have been sent off for two yellows - was lucky not to get a second one for the effort where he pulled the Liege players shorts. As against that he is probably getting a lot of criticism because he was involved especially when compared to Torres/Keane/Kuyt/Benayoun. He could well have touched the ball more than theother four combined. However as the offensive midfielder he was always going to see a lot of the ball so I think it's only fair that he bears a lot of the criticism. Another thing is given the Barry saga a lot of people were going to be watching him closely to see how he performed as well as the fact that this was a drop in performance from the recent pre-season games.

Dossena - I'm prepared to give him some time as it's hard to impress when the team as a whole plays badly - I could well see him playing a role against teams who come to Anfield to park the bus. Last season there were a couple of times when opposing teams did this which left our full-backs with nothing much to do, but we were unable to take advantage because they had nothing to offer going forward. I think it might take him a bit to get used to the faster pace of the PL as opposed to Serie A. Also a little worried about his tackling style - seems over-physical for the PL

I agree that Masch is a loss but that was always going to be the case - I'm more than happy to have Plessis as his understudy in the DM role and considering this was only his third competitive start I was more than satisfied with Plessis. Also I'm pretty sure he's going to start against Sunderland on Saturday as the defensive midfielder. My own hunch is Alonso will be dropped with Gerrard in the middle of the park - I think this is only a temporary measure until Masch and Lucas are back from the Olympics. Will be interesting to see.

Karmafaerie

DeadSkin wrote: »

Voronin getting cranky

It's a load of crap.

The interview mentioned was months ago, and both quotes are from different intervies!

Voro has said nothing about leaving or being unhappy.

PiE

Alonso didn't do much, granted. However considering he was marked by two players, thats not surprising. But then again, that's two players tied up by marking one player.

Why is nobody criticizing the rest of the players for not taking advantage of this "doubling up" on one player? Shouldn't players like Benayoun, Plessis and Kuyt not be revelling in the extra space provided for them because of Alonso constantly being hounded in his own half?

PHB

Alonso was not double marked. He was just constantly closed down. There is a difference. If he's not good enough to create his own space against Liege he's not good enough for Liverpool. It's not like somebody like Sissoko who specialsies in stopping players like Alonso, it was just a fit team.

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

Alonso was not double marked. He was just constantly closed down. There is a difference. If he's not good enough to create his own space against Liege he's not good enough for Liverpool.

As critical as I have been of the team last night, thats bull****. None of the players showed up last night. So by that logic, Keane, Benayoun, Kuyt etc arent good enough either.

I saw a post on rawk that sums up how I feel about the current state of the team though.

Wide players:

2005(our wings):Riise,Kewell,Smicer,Garcia,Nunez......

2008(our wings):Babel,Kuyt,Benayoun,Pennant.....

Rafa just hasnt spent wisely in the wide areas. And before the 'omgz we dont need wingers' brigade lay into me. Wide players = the positions Kuyt/Benayoun were in last night.

When a team is well organized and closes you down, its very difficult to play through the middle. You need quality wide players to stretch the opposition. Its definitely something we lacked last season and its something I see us lacking in the coming season unless a quality signing is made.

The Kuyt we saw last night was the Kuyt that we saw for the majority (over 50%) of last season.

PiE

PHB wrote: »

Alonso was not double marked. He was just constantly closed down. There is a difference.

Well hot piss. Here's me thinking the purpose of marking someone was to close them down and not give them any time or space.

And as Tusky said, by your logic it's time to ship out Torres too considering he was even less effective than Alonso.

The Rooster

PHB wrote: »

Alonso was not double marked. He was just constantly closed down. There is a difference. If he's not good enough to create his own space against Liege he's not good enough for Liverpool. It's not like somebody like Sissoko who specialsies in stopping players like Alonso, it was just a fit team.

PHB, anytime Liverpool had the ball in defence the Liege striker dropped back to stand directly in front of Alonso to double mark him.

The correct tactic to use in this circumstance is for somebody in defence to bring the ball out until they themselves get approached by an opponent, which should free up somebody else for a pass. Agger tried this a couple of times with mixed results, but mostly when the defenders tired of passing it back and forth to each other, Dossena or Carra decided to lump it up nowhere in particular.

NabyLadistheman

PiE wrote: »

And as Tusky said, by your logic it's time to ship out Torres too considering he was even less effective than Alonso.

+ 1

Karmafaerie

Tusky wrote: »

As critical as I have been of the team last night, thats bull****. None of the players showed up last night. So by that logic, Keane, Benayoun, Kuyt etc arent good enough either.

I saw a post on rawk that sums up how I feel about the current state of the team though.

Wide players:

2005(our wings):Riise,Kewell,Smicer,Garcia,Nunez......

2008(our wings):Babel,Kuyt,Benayoun,Pennant.....

Rafa just hasnt spent wisely in the wide areas. And before the 'omgz we dont need wingers' brigade lay into me. Wide players = the positions Kuyt/Benayoun were in last night.

When a team is well organized and closes you down, its very difficult to play through the middle. You need quality wide players to stretch the opposition. Its definitely something we lacked last season and its something I see us lacking in the coming season unless a quality signing is made.

The Kuyt we saw last night was the Kuyt that we saw for the majority (over 50%) of last season.

Is this so hard to understand Tusky?

Alonso is our creative player!
He supposedly starts our moves.
That's what he's there for.
Keane didn't get the ball.
Kuyt and Benni didn't get the ball.

Where was Alonso's great through balls to the front two?
Where were his amazing cross field pings to the wide men?

They were back in the pre-season friendlies when he was given all the time in the world to do what he wanted.

Alonso needs time and space to pick a pass.

He never, ever, plays well against teams that rush him.
And 75% of the teams in the prem will rush him!

He can play brilliantly in the pre-season games, but he can't opperate if not given that space.

And seeing as he's the guy who's sopposed to create everything, when he doesn't, the whole team falls down.

God I wish we had gotten Barry (and kept Alonso).

Karmafaerie

torresistheman wrote: »

+ 1

How can Torres score when he doesn't have the bloody ball?!!!!!

Alonso's job is to give Torres and Keane the ball.
If he did, and they didn't score, then they're to blame.

Instead, Alonso passed the ball back 6 feet to Carra!

redspider

I agree that people should lay-off Alonso. He did fine last night - granted he doesnt put himself about as much as some players can, but he gave honest effort and was one of our better players last night. He was constantly talking to Plessis and keeping him in his positions. He did okay with his passing and Liege did have a tactic of crowding out the middle. Alonso cant be blamed for not laying off the ball when there was little time in the centre of the park to do so. But he is not Steven Gerrard, he is not Mascherano, he is not Pirlo, thats for sure. Juventus wanted him for something though, they can see it, not just because he is a nice guy - which he is of course.

Tusky wrote: »

Wide players = the positions Kuyt/Benayoun were in last night.
2005(our wings):Riise,Kewell,Smicer,Garcia,Nunez......
2008(our wings):Babel,Kuyt,Benayoun,Pennant.....

Rafa just hasnt spent wisely in the wide areas.

Agreed, our wide players dont give us much. Rafa has tried to fill those areas keeping in mind the other players in the team, strikers attributes, overall shape, formation, etc, but most buys so far have failed to a certain extent. Gonzalez (not mentioned) was also a trial and a 'fail'.

Kuyt is brilliant at defending, and trying to win the ball back, but thats it I'm afraid. He's dodgy at taking chances in and around the box. Benayoun doesnt have the pace and keeps coming inside - he's another Garcia. Pennant is the best at being a winger but suits a 4-4-2 yet we play 4-2-3-1. He's far from being the best winger in the english league either. Babel may be the best of the current bunch but needs some further time to evolve/adapt/fit-in. Lets see what happens to him this season. (ps: Riise was a left-back and was only played wide midfield as one of Rafa's "crazy" experiments).

Aurelio perhaps could do a job in left mid. He is good at free-kcks, and with a Brazillian heritage I'm sure he will improve going forward. Rafa may tinker with these positions in terms of personnel for most of the season. That wont help. Who knows, even Finnan may appear at right mid as he did last season. Its not his best position though, RB is.

I think a purchase of Bentley would have made much more sense than a purchase of Keane, and I think it is that obvious. McGeady would have been a mouth-watering prospect.

The honeymoon period for Robbie K is well and truly over ..... with a bigger club come bigger responsibilities, bigger expectations and perhaps less playing time and opportunities to do so. Its a big ask of the lad and he may be just out of his depth - and at our cost. I can see Robbie being tried at right midfield ala Kuyt as well. Rafa will try anything once!

Redspider

missingtime

redspider wrote: »

The honeymoon period for Robbie K is well and truly over ..... with a bigger club come bigger responsibilities, bigger expectations and perhaps less playing time and opportunities to do so. Its a big ask of the lad and he may be just out of his depth - and at our cost.

He has played one competitive game and the honeymoon period is over!

We haven't even started the league.

It was his first champions league game for liverpool.

Christ man.

spockety

Alonso is the new Sissoko!

Keane is the new Kuyt!

Karmafaerie

missingtime wrote: »

He has played one competitive game and the honeymoon period is over!

We haven't even started the league.

It was his first champions league game for liverpool.

Christ man.

I love it.

People slag the f**k out of Vorronin and Keane, but if you point out how dreadful Alonso was, the same people queue up to defend him!

MementoMori

redspider wrote: »

He did okay with his passing and Liege did have a tactic of crowding out the middle. Alonso cant be blamed for not laying off the ball when there was little time in the centre of the park to do so.

He did awful with his passing and of course he can be blamed for not laying the ball off - what else is he in the team for??? Also Alonso with his experience should have been able to cope with a crowded midfield but quite clearly wasn't last night.I like Alonso but I just think a move to a slower paced league e.g. Italy or Spain would benefit him enormously.

Agree the "wide players" didnt really perform last night - Benayoun was ok when he was involved but he was only invloved in patches. Playing him on the left side of midfield clearly isn't his best position and was one of the things that annoyed me when I heard Babel was going to the Olympics - with Riise, Kewell, and Leto gone from the squad it is quite clearly our weakest position. Kuyt on the other hand was shocking - nothing he did worked and he was missing an awful lot - once again he looked like a striker forced into playing as a midfielder - the fact that Pennant didnt come on leads me to think he might be gone. Not too thrilled about the idea of Finnan, Aurelio, Insua etc played as middle-field wide players.

The honeymoon period for Robbie K is well and truly over ..... with a bigger club come bigger responsibilities, bigger expectations and perhaps less playing time and opportunities to do so. Its a big ask of the lad and he may be just out of his depth - and at our cost.

I know you werent a fan of this signing but come on give the lad a chance - way too soon to be judging him, particularly on a game where out midfield was murdered and the service was shocking. Torres didnt exactly sparkle last night either - should we be writing him off too?

redspider

> I know you werent a fan of this signing but come on give the lad a chance - way too soon to be judging him

That wasnt meant to be a judgement, just stating how it must be feeling for him. Its all well and dandy to join the club you support, but its not so easy for Robbie to slot into the current Liverpool set-up.

I'm keeping my judgement powder dry until he gets 800 mins of competitive play. Thats 67 mins gone.

Tusky

redspider wrote: »

I agree that people should lay-off Alonso. He did fine last night - granted he doesnt put himself about as much as some players can, but he gave honest effort and was one of our better players last night. He was constantly talking to Plessis and keeping him in his positions. He did okay with his passing and Liege did have a tactic of crowding out the middle. Alonso cant be blamed for not laying off the ball when there was little time in the centre of the park to do so. But he is not Steven Gerrard, he is not Mascherano, he is not Pirlo, thats for sure. Juventus wanted him for something though, they can see it, not just because he is a nice guy - which he is of course.




Agreed, our wide players dont give us much. Rafa has tried to fill those areas keeping in mind the other players in the team, strikers attributes, overall shape, formation, etc, but most buys so far have failed to a certain extent. Gonzalez (not mentioned) was also a trial and a 'fail'.

Kuyt is brilliant at defending, and trying to win the ball back, but thats it I'm afraid. He's dodgy at taking chances in and around the box. Benayoun doesnt have the pace and keeps coming inside - he's another Garcia. Pennant is the best at being a winger but suits a 4-4-2 yet we play 4-2-3-1. He's far from being the best winger in the english league either. Babel may be the best of the current bunch but needs some further time to evolve/adapt/fit-in. Lets see what happens to him this season. (ps: Riise was a left-back and was only played wide midfield as one of Rafa's "crazy" experiments).

Aurelio perhaps could do a job in left mid. He is good at free-kcks, and with a Brazillian heritage I'm sure he will improve going forward. Rafa may tinker with these positions in terms of personnel for most of the season. That wont help. Who knows, even Finnan may appear at right mid as he did last season. Its not his best position though, RB is.

I think a purchase of Bentley would have made much more sense than a purchase of Keane, and I think it is that obvious. McGeady would have been a mouth-watering prospect.

The honeymoon period for Robbie K is well and truly over ..... with a bigger club come bigger responsibilities, bigger expectations and perhaps less playing time and opportunities to do so. Its a big ask of the lad and he may be just out of his depth - and at our cost. I can see Robbie being tried at right midfield ala Kuyt as well. Rafa will try anything once!

Redspider

Riise played plenty of games on the left wing under Rafa. It wasnt just a once off experiment.

Aurelio on the wing ? No thanks.

McGeady ?

MementoMori

redspider wrote: »

>That wasnt meant to be a judgement, just stating how it must be feeling for him. Its all well and dandy to join the club you support, but its not so easy for Robbie to slot into the current Liverpool set-up.

I'm keeping my judgement powder dry until he gets 800 mins of competitive play. Thats 67 mins gone.

Fair enough - it just did seem like a judgement to me - Myself I might give him more than 800 mins - that's not even 9 full games - How long did Crouch take to score his first goal for us?

Tusky

MementoMori wrote: »

Fair enough - it just did seem like a judgement to me - Myself I might give him more than 800 mins - that's not even 9 full games - How long did Crouch take to score his first goal for us?

Crouch didnt cost 20m!

mike65

Mike

Karmafaerie

Tusky wrote: »

Crouch didnt cost 20m!

Crouch wasn't/isn't one of the most succesful strikers of all time.

PHB

The Rooster wrote: »

PHB, anytime Liverpool had the ball in defence the Liege striker dropped back to stand directly in front of Alonso to double mark him.

That's not double marked. That happens to every single deep lying central midfielder. Fabregas and Scholes have the same thing happen to them every single game. Its the norm.

Tusky wrote: »

As critical as I have been of the team last night, thats bull****. None of the players showed up last night. So by that logic, Keane, Benayoun, Kuyt etc arent good enough either.

I wasn't just talking about last night and you're well aware of that. Last night just once again shows that Alonso isn't able to deal with English football.

Juve want him probably because in Italian football midfielders get much more space.

When a team is well organized and closes you down, its very difficult to play through the middle. You need quality wide players to stretch the opposition. Its definitely something we lacked last season and its something I see us lacking in the coming season unless a quality signing is made.

The Kuyt we saw last night was the Kuyt that we saw for the majority (over 50%) of last season.

You're totally right. However Alonso wasn't the one playing it down the wings. It was mostly the LBs. Most of your attack weres your FBs providing width as everyone had talked about, but they were just knocking it up to the corners and letting the strikers chase it. A decent central midfielder should be able to step up and dictate the play, even if its not through the center.

Alonso was fine in his first season. Once people realised what he could do, he got special attention. Happens to every good kid. Gerrard, Ronaldo, Fabregas all went through the same thing.
Those 3 upped their game, found ways to perform even though they had the attention on them. Alonso has not.

herbieflowers

That's a bit harsh on Alonso, he's been fairly injury-prone over the last while, plus he hasn't had a good run in the side in recent times (didn't he fall out of favour with Benitez for a while?).

copacetic

I know everyone here is saying he isn't but Barry is cup tied now. Until the knockout stages on 24/25 february.
TF4F didn't post the important part of the rule previously, he only put the 17.18 bit up, the important bit is the 17.17:


17.17 For all matches from the start of the first knockout round, a club may register

a maximum of three new eligible players for the remaining matches in the

current competition. Such registration must be completed by

1 February 2009 at the latest. This deadline cannot be extended.



17.18 One player from the above quota of three who has played UEFA club

competition matches for another competing club in the current season may

exceptionally be registered, provided that the player has not been fielded:

− in the same competition for another club

− for another club that is currently in the same competition.

Furthermore, if the player’s new club is playing in the UEFA Cup, his former

club must not have played in the UEFA Cup at any point in the current

season.

Hero Of College

copacetic wrote: »

I know everyone here is saying he isn't but Barry is cup tied now. Until the knockout stages on 24/25 february.
TF4F didn't post the important part of the rule previously, he only put the 17.18 bit up, the important bit is the 17.17:


17.17 For all matches from the start of the first knockout round, a club may register

a maximum of three new eligible players for the remaining matches in the

current competition. Such registration must be completed by

1 February 2009 at the latest. This deadline cannot be extended.



17.18 One player from the above quota of three who has played UEFA club

competition matches for another competing club in the current season may

exceptionally be registered, provided that the player has not been fielded:

− in the same competition for another club

− for another club that is currently in the same competition.

Furthermore, if the player’s new club is playing in the UEFA Cup, his former

club must not have played in the UEFA Cup at any point in the current

season.

I knew that much at least. Barry is out of European action for any other club than Villa until the Spring.

~Rebel~

Tbh im not really sure how much that matters...we have plenty for the CL, its the premiership that Barry would be a more notable improvement on our squad.

Dont be at yourself

I really think people are being too harsh on Alonso.

He did well when he came back into the side towards the end of last season, he had a fine Euro 2008, and he's had an excellent pre-season. Alonso has been playing some of his best football over the last few months.

Does one game in which the whole team underperformed, against well-organised European opposition, write off Alonso's chance of making any impact domestically?

gixerfixer

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I really think people are being too harsh on Alonso.

He did well when he came back into the side towards the end of last season, he had a fine Euro 2008, and he's had an excellent pre-season. Alonso has been playing some of his best football over the last few months.

Does one game in which the whole team underperformed, against well-organised European opposition, write off Alonso's chance of making any impact domestically?

No.Of course it doesnt,but the internet is full of idiots who will write a player off if he has a bad season or even a game(it happens).Listen all teams have idiot fans and Liverpool are no exception.

joe123

Well seeing as the barry deal is dead in the water after him being cup tied( Were not gunna spend 18 mil on a player we cant use in the champs league)

Do any of ye think were gunna make any other signings before the window closes? My bet is that we dont. Benitez already said we have basically no money and we have to sell to buy.

Alonso (cup tied) is staying and he was our highest value player linked with a move.

Pennant( 4 mill),benyoun(5 mill),voronin(2 mill) are the three lads the most likely to move.

That aint much in this climate. I think benitez bought badly but I think the american owners are worse. They have given nothing this summer. We had to sell some good players and especially crouch.

Bad summer business so far imo

So do ye think we will buy again?
Will we sell?Who?

JPA

Hero Of College wrote: »

I knew that much at least. Barry is out of European action for any other club than Villa until the Spring.

Is this definitely 100% true? Because Villa were still playing in a qualifying round ya know.

Tusky

joe123 wrote: »

Well seeing as the barry deal is dead in the water after him being cup tied( Were not gunna spend 18 mil on a player we cant use in the champs league)

Do any of ye think were gunna make any other signings before the window closes? My bet is that we dont. Benitez already said we have basically no money and we have to sell to buy.

Alonso (cup tied) is staying and he was our highest value player linked with a move.

Pennant( 4 mill),benyoun(5 mill),voronin(2 mill) are the three lads the most likely to move.

That aint much in this climate. I think benitez bought badly but I think the american owners are worse. They have given nothing this summer. We had to sell some good players and especially crouch.

Bad summer business so far imo

So do ye think we will buy again?
Will we sell?Who?

We will definitely make one more signing.

joe123

Tusky wrote: »

We will definitely make one more signing.

A big signing?

If so any thoughts? I still think we need some one to take kuyts place hes just not good enough. Quaresma I reckon is out of our price range. Wouldnt mind seeing wright phillips picked up on the cheap if he was available...around 7 million would be decent for him.

To be honest I cant see where were going to get the money. A mate of mine was telling me of an article in the independent yesterday on about how the american owners were willing to give benitez the money for villa but not for barry.Strange.

Im not talking another u17 kid tho have to say some of the youngsters are showing good promise and nemeth looks a good prospect.

Tusky

joe123 wrote: »

A big signing?

If so any thoughts? I still think we need some one to take kuyts place hes just not good enough. Quaresma I reckon is out of our price range. Wouldnt mind seeing wright phillips picked up on the cheap if he was available...around 7 million would be decent for him.

To be honest I cant see where were going to get the money. A mate of mine was telling me of an article in the independent yesterday on about how the american owners were willing to give benitez the money for villa but not for barry.Strange.

Im not talking another u17 kid tho have to say some of the youngsters are showing good promise and nemeth looks a good prospect.

I would say Downing or Riera.

Dont be at yourself

Balague reckons there's about 20 million left in the kitty, which sounds about right!

DeadSkin

joe123 wrote: »

Pennant( 4 mill),benyoun(5 mill),voronin(2 mill) are the three lads the most likely to move.

We had to sell some good players and especially crouch.

Bad summer business so far imo

So do ye think we will buy again?
Will we sell?Who?

Bennayoun is goin' nowhere, Rafa told him as much.

Crouch wanted to go, he wasn't gonna get as much game time as he wished.

Bad summer so far? I'll wait and see, I'm happy with the Keane signing and do reckon there is at least one more signing to come, I'm thinking Downing, but we'll wait and see.

gixerfixer

Jebus.Hope for the love of christ it is'nt Downing if we are signing another player before the window closes. Average player at the best of times.A step up from Pennent?....doubtful