Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Karmafaerie

Mitch Connor wrote: »

28million and largely defensive is so far off the mark imo it is amazing. He was a gifted play maker.

Veron was one of the best players of the last decade.
His great strenght however was, and still is, in breaking up the play.
He read and intercepted everything.
He was a lot better than Masch going forward, but he wasn't a playmaker like an Alonso or Fabregeas.
He patroled the midfield, broke everything up, and then fed the creative players.

mike65

re Radamel Falcao, I have but no nothing of the fella.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

Jesus Karma, Veron was hardly the same type of player as Masch.

Not the point.

Back in 2001 Veron, who was a central midfielder used to stop the oposition playing was sold for £28.1 million if I remember correctly.

Masch does a similar job for us, and while not the same, is of equal importance.

Both Argentinian.
Masch 25, Veron 26.
Masch Argentinian captain, Veron practically kicked out of the squad in 2002.


Now if Veron was £28.1 mill in 2001.
Saying that Masch is worth £25 mill in 2009 is ridiculous.

Mitch Connor

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Veron was one of the best players of the last decade.
His great strenght however was, and still is, in breaking up the play.
He read and intercepted everything.
He was a lot better than Masch going forward, but he wasn't a playmaker like an Alonso or Fabregeas.
He patroled the midfield, broke everything up, and then fed the creative players.

I disagree.

He was an extremely creative player himself, and was an all round midfielder. He was so much more than a DM like Mascherano. When united signed him, he was right up with Zidane as the best midfielder around at the time imo. It didn't work out for him at United, but that is not the point.

Chardee MacDennis

have to disagree Karma, Veron was an AMC through and through imo

dont know much of Falcao besides his FM ratings, which, unlike Everton think, isnt enough to judge him anyone seen him play?

with regards Masch; lets not forget the effect of the loss of Makelele on Madrid, they conceded three times as many goals the next season without him. There arent many players around like Masch, replacing him would be a nightmare...

Karmafaerie

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I disagree.

He was an extremely creative player himself, and was an all round midfielder. He was so much more than a DM like Mascherano. When united signed him, he was right up with Zidane as the best midfielder around at the time imo. It didn't work out for him at United, but that is not the point.

That sums up everything that needs to be said about that.:rolleyes:

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Not the point.

Back in 2001 Veron, who was a central midfielder used to stop the oposition playing was sold for £28.1 million if I remember correctly.

Masch does a similar job for us, and while not the same, is of equal importance.

Both Argentinian.
Masch 25, Veron 26.
Masch Argentian captain, Veron practically kicked out of the squad in 2002.


Now if Veron was £28.1 mill in 2001.
Saying that Masch is worth £25 mill in 2009 is ridiculous.

Sweet Jesus.

Veron was/is not the same type player as Mascherano.

Stop spinning shíté to suit your arguement FFS.

whatawaster

Anyone who thinks Mascherano is a DM in the Makelele mould needs to watch him a lot closer. He doesn't sit in front of the back 4 to protect him. He's all over the pitch. A lot more like Keane than Makelele

Boggles

Anyone who thinks 25 million is not alot of money, needs to stop watching any headline with Real Madrid in it.

So Mash and Alonso are gone. Who's next? :rolleyes:

whatawaster

Boggles wrote: »

Anyone who thinks 25 million is not alot of money, needs to stop watching any headline with Real Madrid in it.

Nobody's saying it's not a lot of money. But Hargreaves and Diarra both went for 20m or thereabouts and Mascherano is a much better player than either. Barca can offer 25 million if they want, but he's worth more and will not leave for that price.

Boggles

rarnes1 wrote: »

So Mash and Alonso are gone. Who's next? :rolleyes:

Arbeloa.

Dickerty

Latest news from Spain (Mundo Deportivo)

Barcelona are set to bid £17m for Liverpool midfielder Javier Mascherano after Barca's technical director received permission from Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez to make an offer.

This is getting silly now!!

Boggles

whatawaster wrote: »

Nobody's saying it's not a lot of money. But Hargreaves and Diarra both went for 20m or thereabouts and Mascherano is a much better player than either. Barca can offer 25 million if they want, but he's worth more and will not leave for that price.

Personally don't rate Diarra but he went to funny money Madrid and that was only 20 million.

Hargreaves cost 17m and is not the same type player as Mascherano.

His best performance for United in his injury littered career was on the right wing.

5starpool

Boggles wrote: »

Sweet Jesus.

Veron was/is not the same type player as Mascherano.

Stop spinning shíté to suit your arguement FFS.

Very true. Mascherano plays well in England, so it is hard to compare the two of them.

Chardee MacDennis

whatawaster wrote: »

Anyone who thinks Mascherano is a DM in the Makelele mould needs to watch him a lot closer. He doesn't sit in front of the back 4 to protect him. He's all over the pitch. A lot more like Keane than Makelele

i didnt say that but he does protect our back four by not letting the ball near them, he just does it all over the pitch where makelele did it in less space...

17m is a joke, we paid that for him ffs and he's proven himself to be world class now...

zing

rarnes1 wrote: »

So Mash and Alonso are gone. Who's next? :rolleyes:

Rafa. Rafa out !

whatawaster

Dickerty wrote: »

Latest news from Spain (Mundo Deportivo)

Barcelona are set to bid £17m for Liverpool midfielder Javier Mascherano after Barca's technical director received permission from Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez to make an offer.

This is getting silly now!!

Permission to make an offer? Why would he need permission to make an offer?

Boggles

5starpool wrote: »

Very true. Mascherano plays well in England, so it is hard to compare the two of them.

That wasn't really the point, but well done, I see what you did there.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

Sweet Jesus.

Veron was/is not the same type player as Mascherano.

Stop spinning shíté to suit your arguement FFS.

Yeah.
Do the usual Boggles.

Don't argue the point, just insult and walk away.

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Yeah.
Do the usual Boggles.

Don't argue the point, just insult and walk away.

What point is there to argue.

Your comparing apples and oranges.

My point was defensive midfielders have a market value, they seldom if ever break the 25 million mark.

You weigh in with Veron and try pawn him off a defensive midfielder, to suit your arguement.

5starpool

The transfer market really is such a different place now to a few years ago, or even 1 year ago. The amount of plyers who are being strongly linked to English clubs that are turning down the chance to go there is unprecedented in the last 10-15 years, and the amount of top players at English clubs that are linked elsewhere or actually leaving, really highlights the fact that the top players almost always follow the money, and that the 50% tax rate that is being introduced in England is the main deterrent to bog players coming to or staying in England.

rossie1977

Boggles wrote: »

Essien is on a different level to Mascherano, he is not just limited to an out and out defensive midfielder.

i seem to remember mascherano playing at right back last season and playing very well, got forward very well too

BastardPrince

BastardPrince wrote: »

with regards Masch; lets not forget the effect of the loss of Makelele on Madrid, they conceded three times as many goals the next season without him. There arent many players around like Masch, replacing him would be a nightmare...

Bit of a lie, they conceded 54 as opposed to 42. They were in decline then and it wasn't all down to one player leaving.

Chardee MacDennis

hmm rarnes are you sure? i'm almost sure i read that in an article recently...<br />

lol my maths are all over the place today!

Dickerty

Boggles wrote: »

My point was defensive midfielders have a market value, they seldom if ever break the 25 million mark.

Attackers seldom break 25M either, but Kaka and Ronaldo smashed that rule...

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

What point is there to argue.

Your comparing apples and oranges.

My point was defensive midfielders have a market value, they seldom if ever break the 25 million mark.

You weigh in with Veron and try pawn him off a defensive midfielder, to suit your arguement.

So you mean the similar age.
Nationality.
Job on the pitch.
Length of contract with their previous/current club.
Or their importance to the previous/current team.

Mean nothing.

Also the fact that it's 8 years later now, and the average price of player has gone up.

Or the fact that Liverpool don't have to sell.


But ignoring Veron, how many clubs pay close to £20,000,000 for right backs?

I can think of two off the top of my head.

Liverpool.
Barcelona.

Last year when Barca bought Alves, how many were saying "Jesus, you never pay that for a full back".



It doesn't matter what value a position has.

redzerdrog

and boswinga

rossie1977

Dickerty wrote: »

Attackers seldom break 25M either, but Kaka and Ronaldo smashed that rule...

what was the world record transfer for a defender prior to ferdinand going for £35m??

LuckyLloyd

Jaysus lads, bit of realism please. The bottom line is that losing Alonso or Mascherano would be a disaster. The availability of those two players is a huge strength for us. Our effectiveness as a squad would be significantly impaired if we were to lose either or both of them. Johnson is a good addition and if nothing else happens I'd be confident that we can give things a rattle next season. But all bets are off if we lose any of our key players. And believe me, Alonso and Mascherano are extremely key.

Dickerty

Lloyd, you are truly the voice of reason.

Eire-Dearg

United make a bid for Gerrard!

Chardee MacDennis

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

United make a bid for Gerrard!

i didnt know what to think!

Dickerty

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

United make a bid for Gerrard!

Oh come on, are you going to post the "Liverpool sign Bent" link next? :rolleyes:

Dublin_Gunner

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

United make a bid for Gerrard!

Something tells me that Stevie's cousin wouldn't be too pushed on signing for United.... (Manchester, obviously! I did read the article)

But exactly what that post had to do with Liverpool I don't know...

Eire-Dearg

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Something tells me that Stevie's cousin wouldn't be too pushed on signing for United.... (Manchester, obviously! I did read the article)

But exactly what that post had to do with Liverpool I don't know...

The Scunthorpe thread wasn't on hand to use.

Karmafaerie

Guileme's (well, Lee Watson's) Spanish paper round up.
Just the parts of interest.

Kicking off with the big four Spanish sports dailies and, according to Barcelona based SPORT and el Mundo Deportivo, it is claimed that David Villa has reached an agreement with FC Barcelona to join the Champions this summer - all that remains to be agreed is the small matter of a transfer with his current club, Valencia, and for the player to publicly declare his intentions. SPORT reports that Villa has informed his agent, Jose Luis Tamargo, that the only club he will consider leaving the Mestalla for is Barcelona; while Mundo Deportivo claim that terms with the player were agreed at a meeting between player and senior Barcelona figures in Asturias yesterday - and that Villa has been told by Barca sporting director Txiki Begiristain that the Catalans will pull out all the stops to sign him, including paying Valencia as much as €45 million for his services.

However, SPORT suggests that Chelsea may yet intervene and that, despite Villa`s reluctance to play in England, the Premiership club`s latest bid of €47 million complicates Barcelona`s chances of agreeing a fee with Valencia. According to SPORT, the higher bids from England are the primary reason why Villa has not yet been sold to a Spanish club - while also reporting that the top man at the Mestalla, Manuel LLorente, continues to insist that there have been no new offers for Villa, that there is no need to sell him and that, as far as he is concerned, "David Villa is a Valencia player."



AS are patting themselves on the back after Gazzetta dello Sport have apparently backed up the Spanish paper`s prior claims that Juventus have entered the race to sign Xabi Alonso from Liverpool. According to the Italian paper, the Serie A club are willing to play €25 million plus Christian Poulsen in exchange for Alonso. AS believes that Rafa Benitez would be keen on Poulsen - who has struggled in Italy since leaving Sevilla - and that the Liverpool boss could be tempted, particularly if Mascherano were to leave Anfield as well (the Barcelona based papers still believe that Mascherano moving to the Camp Nou remains a distinct possibility).

The Villa part is just to quell any last thoughts of him being Anfield bound.
also because I beleive is Barca get Villa, they won't have the money for Masch.

They only have £35,000,000 after all.

As for €25,000,000 plus Poulsen for Xabi.
Fu€k that

Dickerty

Grand, let them spend it all on Villa and we'll keep Masc.

Juve have said they are not interested, so who to believe? No chance at that price anyway, and that would be a significant step down for him...

PiE

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11096_5409509,00.html

Sky's hopping on the FM bandwagon. Better late than never.

JPA

PiE wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11096_5409509,00.html

Sky's hopping on the FM bandwagon. Better late than never.

They've had that feature for ages.

LuckyLloyd

Karmafaerie wrote: »

As for €25,000,000 plus Poulsen for Xabi.
Fu€k that

That would be a good valuation for him tbh - and any player exchange deal has to be the preferred option if he must go. But his importance to the club goes beyond what is reasonable or unreasonable in terms of money.

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That would be a good valuation for him tbh

I really don't think it is. If Xabi said tomorrow that he wants to leave we should slap a 35-40m price on his head. I think if push comes to shove Madrid will pay that. 25m plus an ageing midfielder wouldn't cut it for me. Of course, if they threw Giovinco into the mix . . .

Dickerty

Or I hear that guy Sissoko is good??

Karmafaerie

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That would be a good valuation for him tbh - and any player exchange deal has to be the preferred option if he must go. But his importance to the club goes beyond what is reasonable or unreasonable in terms of money.

Poulsen is a red card waiting to happen.
I know that Juve only spent €9,000,000 or so on him last year, but I wouldn't want him at Liverpool.
He's a dirty player.
Punching players on the pitch is never a good thing!

whatawaster

Dickerty wrote: »

Or I hear that guy Sissoko is good??

Yes! Great squad player. Absolute beast.
Only if he brings his glasses though.

tok9

Karmafaerie wrote: »

how many clubs pay close to £20,000,000 for right backs?

I can think of two off the top of my head.

Liverpool.
Barcelona.

Last year when Barca bought Alves, how many were saying "Jesus, you never pay that for a full back".


It doesn't matter what value a position has.

Man U
Owen Hargreaves

Barca have permission to talk to Mash according to BBC's gossip.

Would be gutted to lose him tbh.

Would be more gutted to lose Alonso.

To lose both doesn't bear thinking about

Dickerty

I didn't realise Poulsen was so undisciplined, no way Rafa would touch a player like that.

Eire-Dearg

Dickerty wrote: »

I didn't realise Poulsen was so undisciplined, no way Rafa would touch a player like that.

I'm sick of this myth being spouted every time we're linked with a player with a little bit of indiscipline in their character.

Bellamy, Pennant?

Eire-Dearg

rarnes1 wrote: »

Barca have permission to talk to Mash according to BBC's gossip.

Would be gutted to lose him tbh.

Would be more gutted to lose Alonso.

To lose both doesn't bear thinking about

From a Spanish version of Goal.com (here)

1124 BST:Barcelona are set to bid £17m for Liverpool midfielder Javier Mascherano after Barca's technical director received permission from Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez to make an offer.

I'd laugh off £17m tbh, £1m less then what we paid.