Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Dickerty

rarnes1 wrote: »

To lose both doesn't bear thinking about

It is inconceivable that Rafa would allow that to happen. Not in the same year, for sure.

I would be more bothered at losing Mascherano, as I think he'd be harder to replace. I think you could replace Alonso with one of a number of good passing, composed midfielders, and the extra money could be spent on a winger. But dunno how we'd do in replacing Masc...

Dickerty

Dickerty wrote: »

It is inconceivable that Rafa would allow that to happen. Not in the same year, for sure.

I would be more bothered at losing Mascherano, as I think he'd be harder to replace. I think you could replace Alonso with one of a number of good passing, composed midfielders, and the extra money could be spent on a winger. But dunno how we'd do in replacing Masc...

To replace either would be a massive task with a limited budget

Karmafaerie

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

I'm sick of this myth being spouted every time we're linked with a player with a little bit of indiscipline in their character.

Bellamy, Pennant?

Poulsen is famous for his very bad discipline, on the field.
He's the Danish Joey Barton basically.

Remember Denmark being fined thousands, having to play one game behind closed doors, and 4 250 miles away from Coppenhagen?

That was Poulsen.

Poulsen played a controversial role in the 2004 European Championship. Following the 0-0 draw with Italy, Danish television showed Poulsen being spat on by Italian Francesco Totti, who received a three-match ban and gave a "full public apology", though still claiming he was provoked by Poulsen.

In the UEFA Champions League 2005-06 tournament, Poulsen and Schalke were in the same preliminary group as Italian team A.C. Milan. Following their first match, a 2-2 draw, Poulsen was described as "a coward" by A.C. Milan coach Carlo Ancelotti, this time for Poulsen's rough marking of A.C. Milan's Brazilian playmaker Kaká. Ancelotti alleged that Poulsen physically kicked Kaká when the officials had their backs turned. Schalke were eliminated from the Champions League tournament, as A.C. Milan won their second match 3-2, despite a goal by Christian Poulsen. Following the final whistle, Italian player Gennaro Gattuso steered towards Poulsen and confronted him. Gattuso made gloating taunts, while Poulsen gave him an ironic thumbs up, afterwards declaring he found Gattuso childish and hoped he felt embarrassed for himself.

In a UEFA Cup quarterfinal Second Leg against Tottenham Hotspur, Poulsen was seen to stamp on Jermaine Jenas' head. Whether or not this was deliberate remains to be seen. Poulsen was not punished for the incident.

In a qualifying game for the UEFA Euro 2008 against Sweden on June 2, 2007, with the game tied 3-3 in the 89th minute, Poulsen punched Swedish striker Marcus Rosenberg in the stomach inside Danish penalty area. The linesman notified referee Herbert Fandel, who gave Poulsen the red card and awarded Sweden a penalty kick. An angered Danish supporter ran onto the pitch attempted to attack Fandel, though the rest of the Danish players held the fan off. The referee walked off the pitch and the match was abandoned. Poulsen, who later apologized for his actions, was suspended for the next three competitive games. The match was forfeited to Sweden as a 3-0 victory, while Denmark was fined CHF 100,000 (€66,000) and forced to play their next four home qualification matches (effectively the rest of the competition) at least 250 km away from Copenhagen, with the next match against Liechtenstein behind closed doors. In the aftermath of the game, charges have been pressed against Poulsen for the attack on Rosenberg, albeit by a football fan and not by Rosenberg himself

Karmafaerie

rarnes1 wrote: »

To replace either would be a massive task with a limited budget

You understand that one, we don't have a limited budget, and two, that if we did sell one, or both, we REALLY wouldn't have a limited budget.

_blank_

Karmafaerie wrote: »

we don't have a limited budget

What

Of course Liverpool have a Limited budget.

Why didn't they spend 80m on a player?

Because they don't have 80m to spend, therefore, Limited Budget.

Dickerty

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

I'm sick of this myth being spouted every time we're linked with a player with a little bit of indiscipline in their character.

Bellamy, Pennant?

Neither one was a head stamper or a puncher. Pennant's problems were largely off the field, likewise many of Bellamy's. Has either one got a history of sendings off?

Indiscipline is not the same as being a hot-head. These guys were able to hold it together largely on the pitch...

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

So you mean the similar age.
Nationality.
Job on the pitch.
Length of contract with their previous/current club.
Or their importance to the previous/current team.

Mean nothing.

The one highlighted is the only one we were arguing, nothing else.

I said out and out defensive midfielders do not go for a premium above 25 million.

You mention Veron and try and pawn him off as a defensive midfielder to suit your argument, not one person on the thread has agreed with you, round and round!!

Karmafaerie wrote: »

But ignoring Veron, how many clubs pay close to £20,000,000 for right backs?

I can think of two off the top of my head.

Liverpool.
Barcelona.

Last year when Barca bought Alves, how many were saying "Jesus, you never pay that for a full back".

It doesn't matter what value a position has.

The position of full back has changed considerably, the best full backs in the world are now on par with the top wingers in skill and pace.

Full backs are now very much attacking players.

We will see though what Masch goes for, right now players of his ilk have yet to break the 25 million barrier, Barca seem to agree with me considering they are offering 17 million as an open offer, Liverpool to counter with 30 and the meet will be somewhere in the middle.

No chance 35 million though or anywhere it, which was the price that started all this.

No point arguing any further TBH, point will be proven when/if Masch joins the Spaniards.

Karmafaerie

Des wrote: »

What

Of course Liverpool have a Limited budget.

Why didn't they spend 80m on a player?

Because they don't have 80m to spend, therefore, Limited Budget.

So by yout logic Real have a limited budget, cause they didn't spend £100 million on a player.
Well done.

We've spent the most of any club in England so far, without having to sell, but we have a limited budget.:rolleyes:

Karmafaerie

Karmafaerie wrote: »

You understand that one, we don't have a limited budget, and two, that if we did sell one, or both, we REALLY wouldn't have a limited budget.

Karma, we haven't a whole pile to spend or do you know something we don't? :cool:

_blank_

Karmafaerie wrote: »

So by yout logic Real have a limited budget, cause they didn't spend £100 million on a player.
Well done.

We've spent the most of any club in England so far, without having to sell, but we have a limited budget.:rolleyes:

Every club has a limited budget.

FFS Karma, are you on drugs?

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

We've spent the most of any club in England so far, without having to sell, but we have a limited budget.:rolleyes:

Ye sold Leto and the Crouch from the waist down to fund it.

whatawaster

Boggles wrote: »

Barca seem to agree with me considering they are offering 17 million as an open offer, Liverpool to counter with 30 and the meet will be somewhere in the middle.

No chance 35 million though or anywhere it, which was the price that started all this.

He will not leave for under 30 million. He cost us 17 and that was an agreed price when his career was very much at a low point. He's since played in a CL final, become captain of his country and proven himself as the best in his position in the world. Rafa has also said 35/40 won't be enough, he has no price (as well as the fact that he seems to be in love with Masch). The transfer market has, if anything, inflated since two years ago.
You say the celing price for a DM has been 25 million – but no DM as good as Mascherano has come onto the market for years.

mike65

FFS stupid arguments over something that hasn't happened and may not happen and if it does happen will happen at a price yet to be determined.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

The one highlighted is the only one we were arguing, nothing else.

I said out and out defensive midfielders do not go for a premium above 25 million.

You mention Veron and try and pawn him off as a defensive midfielder to suit your argument, not one person on the thread has agreed with you, round and round!!



The position of full back has changed considerably, the best full backs in the world are now on par with the top wingers in skill and pace.

Full backs are now very much attacking players.

We will see though what Masch goes for, right now players of his ilk have yet to break the 25 million barrier, Barca seem to agree with me considering they are offering 17 million as an open offer, Liverpool to counter with 30 and the meet will be somewhere in the middle.

No chance 35 million though or anywhere it, which was the price that started all this.

No point arguing any further TBH, point will be proven when/if Masch joins the Spaniards.

So Defenders value can change.
When Cannevaro and Rio were big sales.

And Fullbacks can, with Bosingwa, Alves, Johnson.


But Defensive midfielders can't.:rolleyes:

Yeah, you're right.

Not worth it Boggles.

Fromvert

Boggles wrote: »

The one highlighted is the only one we were arguing, nothing else.

I said out and out defensive midfielders do not go for a premium above 25 million.

You mention Veron and try and pawn him off as a defensive midfielder to suit your argument, not one person on the thread has agreed with you, round and round!!

Have to agree with ye there Boggles. Veron would sit deep, get the ball and start the attack. He is/was a playmaker who also tried to break up the play. He was/is a great passer of ball that moved around the midfield.
Dont know how you cant see that Karma.


No way Liverpool would even think of accepted £17m for Masch, thats less than what we payed for him. Stupid journos.

Karmafaerie

rarnes1 wrote: »

Karma, we haven't a whole pile to spend or do you know something we don't? :cool:

I know that we've spent a lot on one player, and that Rafa says we've money to spend on another, without having to sell.

I know that it was nosed around that we have a minimum of £20,000,000 rising to a possible £40,000,000 plus 80-90% of all money raised by sales.


We've more to sell than all clubs in England, bar UTD with their £80,000,000 and Citeh/Chelsea.

whatawaster

mike65 wrote: »

FFS stupid arguments over something that hasn't happened and may not happen and if it does happen will happen at a price yet to be determined.

that pretty much sums up the last 100 pages of this thread

Karmafaerie

Des wrote: »

Every club has a limited budget.

FFS Karma, are you on drugs?

Yes, cause that's what was meant by the original comment.

It was implicit that we have no money.
And also that selling Alonso/Masch wouldn't bring more money in.


Of course every club has a limited budget.
But the original statement was.


To replace either would be a massive task with a limited budget

Don't be pedantic for the sake of it.
It's very clear, as pointed out be Rarnes in his next post, that he was talking about the idea of Liverpool having little money.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

Ye sold Leto and the Crouch from the waist down to fund it.

Johnson was bought before Leto was sold.

And you can't have it both ways.
Crouch was sold last year.

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Johnson was bought before Leto was sold.

And you can't have it both ways.
Crouch was sold last year.

That wasn't what you said though, you said Liverpool have been the biggest spenders without selling anyone this term.

Doesn't matter a fook when Crouch was sold the majority of the money was still not paid, and went towards funding the Johnson transfer.

You were leading us to believe Rafa pulled 17 million readies out of his back pocket with plenty to spare, where the truth is far from how you are trying to paint it.

Karmafaerie

Fromvert wrote: »

Have to agree with ye there Boggles. Veron would sit deep, get the ball and start the attack. He is/was a playmaker who also tried to break up the play. He was/is a great passer of ball that moved around the midfield.
Dont know how you cant see that Karma.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Veron was one of the best players of the last decade.
His great strenght however was, and still is, in breaking up the play.
He read and intercepted everything.
He was a lot better than Masch going forward, but he wasn't a playmaker like an Alonso or Fabregeas.
He patroled the midfield, broke everything up, and then fed the creative players.

Fromvert

He was a creative player though

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

That wasn't what you said though, you said Liverpool have been the biggest spenders without selling anyone this term.

Doesn't matter a fook when Crouch was sold the majority of the money was still not paid, and went towards funding the Johnson transfer.

You were leading us to believe Rafa pulled 17 million readies out of his back pocket with plenty to spare, where the truth is far from how you are trying to paint it.

Boggles.
No clubs, besides Citeh pay all the fees up front!

It never happens anymore!

So where does the £7,000,000 from Crouch go?
Do you not think that was budgeted for?
Did Liverpool forget about it all together?
Yup that's it.

When they were drawing up Rafa's budget, the fact that Pompey owed us money wasn't even considered.

Dublin_Gunner

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Boggles.


When they were drawing up Rafa's budget, the fact that Pompey owed us money wasn't even considered.

Of course it wasn't. Sure why would any business bother equating credit due into any financial forecast..

Well, apart from leverage in the whole Johnson deal, and the fact that Pompey said that the amount still owed would be equated into the deal...

Karmafaerie

Fromvert wrote: »

He was a creative player though

Never said he wasn't.

I'm a massive fan of Veron, and think he simply never settled in England.

There are still a lot of similarities to Masch.

To me, Fabregeas and Gerrard are attacking midfielders.
Veron was not in their mold.

He patroled the midfield, and snuffed out opposing attacks.
He was a lot more of an all rounder than Masch, and IMO is closer to Essien.

But it doesn't change the fact that saying Veron for £28 mill 8 years ago is understandable, but Masch for £25 mill now is too much, is a joke.

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

He patroled the midfield, and snuffed out opposing attacks.
He was a lot more of an all rounder than Masch, and IMO is closer to Essien.

So he wasn't a purely defensive midfielder like Mascherano?

Thank Christ, that only took most of the day. :rolleyes:

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

So he wasn't a purely defensive midfielder like Mascherano?

Thank Christ, that only took most of the day. :rolleyes:

So Essien is an attacking midfielder?


And remind me again, how much did Essien cost back in 2005?

Fromvert

Karma, you said when Veron gets the ball he passes it to the creative players. I took that as saying he is not creative. Was I wrong in doing this?


On Essien, when he plays for Chelsea he plays a more restricted role to when he plays for Ghana. For Ghana he is the main man and plays CM, not DM or right side of midfield or RB like he has for Chelsea. He is real force for Ghana going forward.

So he could be seen as an attacking player, but for Chelsea he is restricted as generally Ballack is accomadated.

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

So Essien is an attacking midfielder?

Right Veron, Tick. We'll move on to Essien.

No Essien is a world class all round midfielder who can play in a variety of roles. Has an eye for goal and can create too.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

And remind me again, how much did Essien cost back in 2005?

24 million?

Whats the point to all this?

mayordenis

this is tedious beyond belief.

Kimbot

Lads, lets put it this way.

Masch is only worth what a team is willing to pay for him. If he goes for 10 Mill or 100 Mill it doesn't matter, he will be a big loss to Pool.

BUT

If he did go and we got Villa our team would look like this:

---

Reina

---

GJ--Carra--Agger-Insua
----SG----XA

---

Kuyt

---

Riera
----Villa---Torres---

Thats a very strong team....
The only reason Rafa would let him go would be if he had some trick up his sleeve and I would imagine it would be something along the lines of getting Villa and changing formation to accomodate. But then again I could be well wrong but hopefully you guys will just get along now!! :P

Dublin_Gunner

jonny24ie wrote: »

Lads, lets put it this way.

Masch is only worth what a team is willing to pay for him. If he goes for 10 Mill or 100 Mill it doesn't matter, he will be a big loss to Pool.

BUT

If he did go and we got Villa our team would look like this:

---

Reina

---

GJ--Carra--Agger-Insua
----SG----XA

---

Kuyt

---

Riera
----Villa---Torres---

Thats a very strong team....
The only reason Rafa would let him go would be if he had some trick up his sleeve and I would imagine it would be something along the lines of getting Villa and changing formation to accomodate. But then again I could be well wrong but hopefully you guys will just get along now!! :P

Well considering his deal with Barca is reportedly almost done (with Chelsea apparently coming into the fray too) - I have serious doubts about Villa coming to Liverpool

Kimbot

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Well considering his deal with Barca is reportedly almost done (with Chelsea apparently coming into the fray too) - I have serious doubts about Villa coming to Liverpool

From what I understand they only have about £35 Mill to spend. Villa will cost more than that alone therfore they can't go for masch until they sell sell sell.


** Please sell us Messi for a stupidly low amount :P

Boggles

jonny24ie wrote: »

From what I understand they only have about £35 Mill to spend. Villa will cost more than that alone therfore they can't go for masch until they sell sell sell.


** Please sell us Messi for a stupidly low amount :P

Eto and Toure probably another 35 million.

Mr Alan

Yaya signed a contract extension only last week did he not?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/26/barcelona-sign-yaya-toure-contract-extension

He ain't going anywhere. And i really doubt Mascherano is either. As much as Boggles may like to hope otherwise.

~Rebel~

toure signed a contract extension last week

PHB

Gerrard and Alonso in one team, while nice against weaker teams, would massively struggle against better teams. Its just way way too attacking.

fkt

PHB wrote: »

Gerrard and Alonso in one team, while nice against weaker teams, would massively struggle against better teams. Its just way way too attacking.

It wasn't very 'nice' this season against stoke, west ham or everton. Struggled against Wigan at home too. Don't know why anyone would want to break up the best partnership(Stevie + Nando) in world football.

Elsewhere, it would appear the deal with to bring King Kenny back is done.

joe123

14.54 Sky Bet has revealed there has been a major plunge on Michael Owen joining Manchester United on a free transfer. His odds on moving to Old Trafford have been cut from 20/1 to 7/4

Taken from sky sports website. Owen already isnt really well recieved at Anfield.

If he joined United Id be disgusted to be honest.

Probably wont happen anyways.

Headshot

joe123 wrote: »

14.54 Sky Bet has revealed there has been a major plunge on Michael Owen joining Manchester United on a free transfer. His odds on moving to Old Trafford have been cut from 20/1 to 7/4

Taken from sky sports website. Owen already isnt really well recieved at Anfield.

If he joined United Id be disgusted to be honest.

Probably wont happen anyways.

I think most liverpool fans will disagree

joe123

Headshot wrote: »

I think most liverpool fans will disagree

On which bit?

Headshot

joe123 wrote: »

On which bit?

that they want Owen at utd

have you seen M.Owen this season

whatawaster

Headshot wrote: »

that they want Owen at utd

have you seen M.Owen this season

IF owen stayed fit for a whole season and played for United he'd get 20 goals i reckon. I for one still have a lot of time for him, didn't begrudge him his move to Madrid and remember fondly all his good times with liverpool. It would hurt if he went to Madrid

Headshot

whatawaster wrote: »

IF owen stayed fit for a whole season and played for United he'd get 20 goals i reckon. I for one still have a lot of time for him, didn't begrudge him his move to Madrid and remember fondly all his good times with liverpool. It would hurt if he went to Madrid

I dont see it mate,I believe his pace is gone and his confidence is pretty low

and I just dont see him getting over those injuries

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

Right Veron, Tick. We'll move on to Essien.

No Essien is a world class all round midfielder who can play in a variety of roles. Has an eye for goal and can create too.



24 million?

Whats the point to all this?

Fromvert wrote: »

Karma, you said when Veron gets the ball he passes it to the creative players. I took that as saying he is not creative. Was I wrong in doing this?


On Essien, when he plays for Chelsea he plays a more restricted role to when he plays for Ghana. For Ghana he is the main man and plays CM, not DM or right side of midfield or RB like he has for Chelsea. He is real force for Ghana going forward.

So he could be seen as an attacking player, but for Chelsea he is restricted as generally Ballack is accomadated.

So what ye're sayin is that Essien is a defensive midfielder for Chelsea, and an all rounder for Ghana.

Remind me please.
Was it Chelsea or Ghana who paid £24.4 million for him?
Cause if Ghana had played £24.4 million for him, I'd be a bit surprised.

Chelsea, the team that play him as a DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER paid just short of £25 million for him.
4 years ago.
But a defensive midfielder now isn't worth £25 mill.
Even though the average price of every other position has skyrocketed.
Yeah.:rolleyes:

If Chelsea bought Jersey Dudek for £25 mill, and told him to play as a defensive midfielder, it doesn't matter where he plays for his country!
Chelsea paid just short of £25 mill for a player they play as a defensive midfielder.


And also Fromvert.
For the year that Essien was a Chelsea player before Ballack arrived at the Bridge.
Was he sitting on the bench waiting?

whatawaster

Headshot wrote: »

I dont see it mate,I believe his pace is gone and his confidence is pretty low

and I just dont see him getting over those injuries

confidence is temporary. His pace is gone, but he's still a great finisher and an intelligent player. For free, and if he reduces his wage demands he'd be very low risk and even if he's not a roaring success, you could probably bag a few million in a years time from some desperate promoted club

daithijjj

whatawaster wrote: »

IF owen stayed fit for a whole season and played for United he'd get 20 goals i reckon. I for one still have a lot of time for him, didn't begrudge him his move to Madrid and remember fondly all his good times with liverpool. It would hurt if he went to united

Fixed that for you.

Headshot

whatawaster wrote: »

confidence is temporary. His pace is gone, but he's still a great finisher and an intelligent player. For free, and if he reduces his wage demands he'd be very low risk and even if he's not a roaring success, you could probably bag a few million in a years time from some desperate promoted club

he's still a good finisher alright,Im just looking at his injury record,at this moment in time utd dont need another saha

DeadSkin

If Owen did go to United, I wouldn't be disgusted.
I wouldn't be wishing him well either

missingtime

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1196999/Liverpool-line-Gaetano-DAgostino-Real-Madrid-close-Xabi-Alonso-signing.html

Anyone know much about this guy?

Liverpool have reportedly lined up Udinese playmaker Gaetano D'Agostino as a replacement for Xabi Alonso.

Reports in Spain suggest Alonso and Anfield team-mate Alvaro Arbeloa will complete moves to Real Madrid in the next few days, if not hours.

Udinese are prepared to sell either D'Agostino or Manchester United target Alexis Sanchez if bidding exceeds £17million.

Liverpool are losing the battle to hang on to 27-year-old midfielder Alonso, who is thought to be keen on a move to the Bernabeu.

They also face a raid from Barcelona for holding midfielder Javier Mascherano.

Rafael Benitez is happier to cash in on right-back Arbeloa - who has a year left on his current contract - following the signing of Glen Johnson from Portsmouth for £17m.

Juventus also want D'Agostino, who made his Italy debut against Northern Ireland last month, but have not been able to meet the asking price.