Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

spockety · 13-07-2009 12:39pm

I think (hope) that Xabi will be appreciative of the position Liverpool are in.

He is one of our Galacticos.. an almost indespensible player. We simply cannot let him leave for the reported 22m. Not because we are being stubborn and playing games with Real Madrid, but because there is not a player on earth available at that price who can step into Xabi's position in our team.

He would get my blessings to leave for Real Madrid (5 years service at the club, a model pro), but only if we get a good deal. After all he did sign in good faith a contract that brings him up to 2012.

whatawaster · 13-07-2009 12:43pm

slingerz wrote: »

I think Cambiasso would be more likely to be the replacement for Alonso.

I would however prefer Arteta from Everton if it were my choice.

If Liverpool get a big sum of money plus a player and can then go and replace Alonso for a reasonable fee as well as adding a good player to the attacking mid section i'd be happy enough

I'd like someone younger and longer term than cambiasso.
Arteta is better wide than in midfield. I don't think he'd be up to a lot of the unnoticed leg-work that Xabi did.

NabyLadistheman · 13-07-2009 12:55pm

BastardPrince wrote: »

have to agree SWAR if it came to it I would prefer to keep Masch.

Say that when we're looking for someone to get hold of it & pass it around. Alonso every day of the week for me

SWAR · 13-07-2009 1:12pm

torresistheman wrote: »

Say that when we're looking for someone to get hold of it & pass it around. Alonso every day of the week for me

I wasn't saying he was going to be easy to replace as he undoubtedly will (if he goes that is)...just think players in Masch's position and of his ability are a rarity these days...I suppose you could also make a similar arguement for players like Alonso being quite rare, and I would probably agree with it, but I genuinely feel he would be slightly easier to replace (actually maybe replace is not the right word, perhaps substitute); however let's jut hope they both stay put....

Dublin_Gunner · 13-07-2009 1:28pm

TBH as sad as I'd be to see Alonso go, we have got our money's worth out of him, and I'd wish him well, whatever happens.

I just hope, that stay or go, it is confirmed either way and soon. Dragging this out like the Barry debacle last year is the worst thing that can happen.

Also, IMO - I would like to think that losing Xabi would not dent our title hopes too much, as we've pretty much enough quality around the pitch to still have a decent campaign.

mike65 · 13-07-2009 1:32pm

When Alonso isn't playing and Lucas fills in you can spot the difference quickly enough, and thats a compliment to Alonos rather than bashing Lucas.

Dublin_Gunner · 13-07-2009 1:43pm

mike65 wrote: »

When Alonso isn't playing and Lucas fills in you can spot the difference quickly enough, and thats a compliment to Alonos rather than bashing Lucas.

That is true, so I also fear that losing Xabi will require us to have a slight change of system - one of the many reaosns for Rafa to be so stone walled on the issue.

Unless there's a carbon copy replacement for him, I don't think we can keep the same shape. We would have to maybe drop Gerrard a bit deeper, or back to midfield and recruit the services of a supporting striker - or indeed keep Gerrard where he is, and re-work the midfield, playing 2 straight across the middle.

This is all unless we find the unlikely replacement of a battling playmaker of world class ability...

Dickerty · 13-07-2009 1:59pm

As far as replacements go, what about Toulalan? Again, pretty defensive, but that's the way Rafa likes his CMs - solid and save.

~Rebel~ · 13-07-2009 2:07pm

Dickerty wrote: »

As far as replacements go, what about Toulalan? Again, pretty defensive, but that's the way Rafa likes his CMs - solid and save.

Would be a better replacement for Masch then Alonso imo, dont think he's anywhere near as good a passer as Xabi is.

redzerdrog · 13-07-2009 2:07pm

team and formation with alonso staying (and masch of course) looks something like this:

alonso----masch

kuyt

gerrard

riera

torres

with gerrard the main player expected to support torres and that partnership is sublime together.

IFalonso goes i can see the formation becoming more of a 4-3-3 formation with

masch

gerrard

lucas

kuyt

torres

babel----

the main problem would be more or less braking up the the torres/gerrard partnership

it would also maybe lack a bit of width but hopefully the fullbacks could provide that extra width

all in all i would much prefer the 1st one and pray that alonso stays if we do lose him i trust rafa to make something like the above work

dannydiamond · 13-07-2009 2:12pm

Xabi..

Just incase he does go has anyone Jan Molbys phone number?

Dickerty · 13-07-2009 2:15pm

I think in his admission about why he didn't go for Owen, Rafa has stated that Gerrard and Torres are his front two. So if either CM leaves, the replacement will be another out-and-out CM.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was someone more adept at defensive tasks and solidity - being defensive doesn't mean not being a good attacking passer, (Masc has a great long pass) and, we can encourage Mascherano to go on more rampaging runs...

Dublin_Gunner · 13-07-2009 2:17pm

Dickerty wrote: »

... and, we can encourage Mascherano to go on more rampaging runs...

Please don't!

PHB · 13-07-2009 2:18pm

Big loss. The real issue with this is that if he leaves, what will Mascherano think?

Rafa might have a bigger fight on his hands than just Alonso.

gucci · 13-07-2009 2:22pm

mike65 wrote: »

When Alonso isn't playing and Lucas fills in you can spot the difference quickly enough, and thats a compliment to Alonos rather than bashing Lucas.

Completely agree, the standard of football we played without Alonso in the team compared to the football with Alonso in the team was vastly different last season (regardless of who was brought in)
Everyone was quick to point out X number of points lossed when 'Nando and Stevie were not playing, where as the people who watched liverpool play every week knew there was one extra player that usually made the difference and usually needed to be there to draw the strings for Stevie, Nando or whoever else needed to fill in.

Losing Xabi will be a blow is potentially like taking a similar amount of goals out of the team as Utd are after potentially losing through selling Ronaldo. True both teams have alternatives and will go on, but its going to be a vast change in playing style, and reliance on certain personnel will have to be altered.

mike65 · 13-07-2009 2:23pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsS69jUPKLA

Charlie Nicholas knows nothing.

swalsh · 13-07-2009 2:35pm

I've just seen that the new membership scheme 'All Red' has gone live, and is available on the website for £29.00 stg. It seems a bit of a kick in the teeth to all those on the PTS or existing members, and also it seems its going to be this price for renewal every year.
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/membership/

Glico Man · 13-07-2009 2:35pm

As far as an Alonso replacement goes, weren't we linked to Javi Martinez a while back? He's another Basque player and is similar in position and passing wise as Xabi, though not as good with spraying 40 yard passes.

The other names I've seen mentioned are Toulalan, Defour, Cambiasso, Valbuena and Arteta are good solid players.

Arteta will never move though so there's no point even contemplating that.

Cambiasso, while a very good player isn't getting any younger but would be a decent acquisition.

Defour, very good young player. Neat and tidy on the ball and likes to get forward when necessary. International regular and captain of Standard.

Valbuena, all I know and remember about him is that quality goal against us in the C.L a few years ago.

Toulalan, decent CM but I don't think Lyon would sell after losing Benzema. Losing two of their mainstays would unquestionable....

a position we sadly find ourselves in.

Dublin_Gunner · 13-07-2009 2:37pm

mike65 wrote: »

Charlie Nicholas knows nothing.

I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that's the Monster's only shot on target since he signed for us lol

spockety · 13-07-2009 2:41pm

PHB wrote: »

Big loss. The real issue with this is that if he leaves, what will Mascherano think?

He'll probably think nothing different to what he was already thinking before Alonso left.

mike65 · 13-07-2009 2:45pm

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that's the Monster's only shot on target since he signed for us lol

Possibly but it was well timed, During the SSN chit chat before KO Nicolas was talking about how "Macherano offers nothing going forwards". I laughed heartily as that went in.

highly speculative piece (scroll down)

Kess73 · 13-07-2009 2:58pm

I'll wait until I see something with actual quotes from either Xabi or Rafa saying that Xabi is off, same for Mach.

But if we were to lose both of them, it would be a far bigger blow than what Man U have had in losing Ronaldo and Tevez.

Last season Alonso was pretty much irreplaceable in terms of importance to the team shape and tempo. Any game that he was missing for or got subbed in, we pretty much lost shape and control of the midfield. Now if he is to be in similar form this season, and going by how he played for Spain this summer there is no reason to think otherwise, then he is essential to our style.

Of the two midfielders, I think Masch is the more replaceable, I still see Masch as world class at what he does, but I think Xabi brings more to the team as a unit.

If there is truth to the 18th of this month being the end of the 20% of any transfer to Xabi's former club, then this weekend and weel following is huge for the club seeing as Xabi is due to report back this Sunday, and if that clause is real, then it runs out on Saturday.

I will be gutted if he leaves as I can only think of one or two players that can match or better his all round game, and neither would be available. I am sure that Rafa has a much bigger list of possible replacements, but replacing one will be difficult, replacing both and not losing quality could be impossible with realistic targets.

Kingdom · 13-07-2009 3:16pm

I'd be absolutely gutted to see Xabi leave. I honestly don't think there's another player in Europe with his vision or passing game off either foot from deep. Mascherano is definitely the easier of the two to replace.

The chap from Porto impressed me hugely anytime I saw him. Raul Meireles. Inparticular the two united games he played fantastically in terms of keeping the ball moving and linking play.

He's only 26 too.

joe123 · 13-07-2009 3:25pm

Il be gutted if Xabi leaves. Really hard to think of a good replacement for him. The only thing I can think of is dropping Gerrard deeper and trying to sign Villa.

Dont want to split up the Gerrard/Torres partnership though. Sniejder is a good player so could see him coming in as part of the deal.

If we could keep Masch and Alonso and not sign anyone else id be happy.

Kess73 · 13-07-2009 3:28pm

Maybe Rafa is going to shock me by having Xavi and Essien turn up on Monday

PiE · 13-07-2009 3:29pm

joe123 wrote: »

Il be gutted if Xabi leaves. Really hard to think of a good replacement for him. The only thing I can think of is dropping Gerrard deeper and trying to sign Villa.

The ONLY thing you can think for replacing our deep-lying creative midfielder... is moving our star player away from his best position and buying an out-and-out striker who is far beyond our budget? Really?

It's not the end of the world if Alonso goes - as long as we get £30m+, Rafa will have a replacement lined up.

Boggles · 13-07-2009 3:31pm

The rule this summer has been if Real and Perez want someone they get them.

The only thing that will stop the move is Alonso, it seems like he is not too keen to stick around though.

Dublin_Gunner · 13-07-2009 3:38pm

Boggles wrote: »

The rule this summer has been if Real and Perez want someone they get them.

The only thing that will stop the move is Alonso, it seems like he is not too keen to stick around though.

I'd like to stop them getting Xabi - even if only just to stop Madrid getting who they want. We've trounced them in the CL last year, so I think we should continue that trend by getting one over them in the transfer market.

TBH Rafa should just come out and say - 'he's not for sale, end of. Not for any amount of money. He has a contract, and we're sticking to it.'

Either that, or just sell him FFS.

Boggles · 13-07-2009 3:42pm

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

TBH Rafa should just come out and say - 'he's not for sale, end of. Not for any amount of money. He has a contract, and we're sticking to it.'

He did say that last week.

Sadly contracts arn't worth a fook these days.

Jesus Wept · 13-07-2009 3:43pm

Kingdom wrote: »

The chap from Porto impressed me hugely anytime I saw him. Raul Meireles. Inparticular the two united games he played fantastically in terms of keeping the ball moving and linking play.

He's only 26 too.

That's not really very young.

~Rebel~ · 13-07-2009 3:43pm

Boggles wrote: »

The rule this summer has been if Real and Perez want someone they get them.

The only thing that will stop the move is Alonso, it seems like he is not too keen to stick around though.

I'm pretty much resigned to losing him now, only question remaining is how much we get back.

Im really not sure about the replacements being floated around. Any of them that i know a lot about, i dont think are good enough, and i cant help but feel the reports on the likes of Hamsik and Defour are a bit optimistic on them being able to step right into Xabi's shoes.

Boggles · 13-07-2009 3:46pm

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I'm pretty much resigned to losing him now, only question remaining is how much we get back.

25 million approx.

Gerrard and Lucas to slot in.

Optimistic 40-45 million for Villa, I'm sure his lover Torres could swing it.

Kingdom · 13-07-2009 3:48pm

The-Rigger wrote: »

That's not really very young.

Appreciate that, but its a year younger than Xabi

Dublin_Gunner · 13-07-2009 3:49pm

Boggles wrote: »

25 million approx.

Gerrard and Lucas to slot in.

Optimistic 40-45 million for Villa, I'm sure his lover Torres could swing it.

Thats the problem though, he'd cost a lot more than 25m to replace - and he's worth more than that to Liverpool, especially considering the 3 years left on his contract.

30 and I could just about bare him leaving, anything less - no way.

Boggles · 13-07-2009 3:51pm

Lose Alonso and get in Villa.

Even I would make Liverpool Favourites for the League.

Rafa would have to have a word with Gerrard play him in 4 rotating positions next season, sacrifice for the greater good.

slingerz · 13-07-2009 3:53pm

If Rafa can wheel a deal to get £27 - £30million as well as getting in Negrado then I think it'd be a good deal.

Alonso is good but is replaceable and could be replaced for less than what we sell him for.

We'd then have enough money for Ribery!

Dublin_Gunner · 13-07-2009 4:02pm

Boggles wrote: »

Lose Alonso and get in Villa.

Even I would make Liverpool Favourites for the League.

Rafa would have to have a word with Gerrard play him in 4 rotating positions next season, sacrifice for the greater good.

I'm still not convinced Torres & Villa play that well together. While definitely I'd love to see Villa as an addition to the squad, it may take a bit of tinkering to get him and Torres working at their best - if anything we might be giving Spain a nice helping hand for the world cup if we did lol

Although I must say I am a firm favourite of having two up top, and slotting Gerrard in behind, though last season has proved that CM is not Stevie's best position (or at least, not any more).

Saying that, Gerrard playing ahead of Masch, with two wide players and two up top, playing one behind the other would be quite formidable, but people on this thread in general don't like a 4-4-2, especially not with Gerrard in the middle. a sort of 4-3-1-2 or 4-1-2-1-2 diamond sort of formation may work IMO

jesus_thats_gre · 13-07-2009 4:50pm

They don't play well together. They score plenty of goals when on the pitch at the same time but that is down to them both being extremely talented players.

If Alonso is sold, I too would like two midfielders to be signed. One to replace Xabi and one to provide backup to Mascherano - Cattermole would be bang on.

joe123 · 13-07-2009 5:20pm

PiE wrote: »

The ONLY thing you can think for replacing our deep-lying creative midfielder... is moving our star player away from his best position and buying an out-and-out striker who is far beyond our budget? Really?

It's not the end of the world if Alonso goes - as long as we get £30m+, Rafa will have a replacement lined up.

You should really take up a job working for the S*N. I love the way you chose to pick one bit of my post and use it as if that was my only idea.

If you hadnt tried to just use one quote you would of noticed I mentioned trying to get sniedjer in along with the deal if Alonso goes. Hes not xabi but hes decent and would be more of a chance of keeping our formation.

And regards to the moving of Gerrard deeper I was thinking in terms of quality for quality Villa is the standard of Alonso but yes it would require changing the formation slightly.

Besides I wouldnt call Villa an out and out striker at all. Not in the same mould as Eto or Torres at all imo. For spain he plays deeper at times.

----Torres

villa
---Gerrard Lucas

masch

Anyways nice quoting Pie :rolleyes:

killwill · 13-07-2009 5:22pm

Boggles wrote: »

25 million approx.

Gerrard and Lucas to slot in.

Optimistic 40-45 million for Villa, I'm sure his lover Torres could swing it.

Villa will definitely not be signed by Liverpool and I reallly don't see ye losing Alonso. He will come good and decide to stay. (Unfortunately!!!)

NabyLadistheman · 13-07-2009 5:32pm

killwill wrote: »

Villa will definitely not be signed by Liverpool and I reallly don't see ye losing Alonso. He will come good and decide to stay. (Unfortunately!!!)

I wouldn't be so sure about that. John Terry goes to City theb anything is possible

13-07-2009 5:44pm

Gerrard passing isn't near the same standard as Alonso's.

Gerrards best position is without doubt the position he played last season-behind Torres so if we lose Alonso we gotta replace him. Our backup isn't good enough for the entire campaign.

jesus_thats_gre · 13-07-2009 6:24pm

I think his passing ability is nearly on a par tbh. Problem was that he tried to force the issue sometimes and ended up loosing possession in situations where Xabi would play a simpler pass and maintain possession.

If I am honest, this was more a reflection of Gerrard's maturity than his ability.

jesus_thats_gre · 13-07-2009 6:26pm

killwill wrote: »

Villa will definitely not be signed by Liverpool and I reallly don't see ye losing Alonso. He will come good and decide to stay. (Unfortunately!!!)

Is this boggles being confused as a Liverpool supporter?

Dickerty · 13-07-2009 6:33pm

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Cattermole would be bang on.

Why has everyone got a gone for Cattermole all of a sudden? Isn't he just this summer's Michael Johnson?

He is a decent little player, sure, but how much better than Spearing, if he got a run?

Dickerty · 13-07-2009 6:37pm

Ok, I don't mean to frighten anyone, but here is something you might not have been expecting -

Yes, it is Philip Degen kicking a ball...

I'm scared....hold me.... :eek:

jesus_thats_gre · 13-07-2009 6:38pm

Dickerty wrote: »

Why has everyone got a gone for Cattermole all of a sudden? Isn't he just this summer's Michael Johnson?

He is a decent little player, sure, but how much better than Spearing, if he got a run?

He was linked with the club last summer and is being linked with us again this summer. It hasn't just come out of the blue from no where.

He is young (only 21), he is a good player (underrated in my personal opinion), he has quite a bit of experience for his age, he is English, would provide excellent cover and would be relatively cheap.

All makes sense to me..

NukaCola · 13-07-2009 6:46pm

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

TBH Rafa should just come out and say - 'he's not for sale, end of. Not for any amount of money. He has a contract, and we're sticking to it.'

Either that, or just sell him FFS.

To be fair he already did.
TBH Alonso should come out and say "i`m staying" or "i`m going".
Alonso doesnt seem too bothered where he plays next season.

Hes a great player and a key player for Liverpool and would hate to see him go but Rafa brought him in and i`m confident Rafa has a plan.....

~Rebel~ · 13-07-2009 6:50pm

Dickerty wrote: »

Why has everyone got a gone for Cattermole all of a sudden? Isn't he just this summer's Michael Johnson?

He is a decent little player, sure, but how much better than Spearing, if he got a run?

for one thing he's the size of 2 Jay Spearings. I wouldn't have him in the first 11, but he's a decent backup.

Tbh, id kind of be of the same opinion as yourself, while he would be a good backup, a top notch CM to replace Xabi is all id get in the area, assuming we dont have money to burn. Just think depth could be improved elsewhere considering Spearing did get his contract extension, and Lucas is still there.

Mr Alan · 13-07-2009 6:53pm

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

To be fair he already did.
TBH Alonso should come out and say "i`m staying" or "i`m going".
Alonso doesnt seem too bothered where he plays next season.

Hes a great player and a key player for Liverpool and would hate to see him go but Rafa brought him in and i`m confident Rafa has a plan.....

True enough about Alonso not seeming too bothered, he even said a few weeks ago if the clubs agree a fee, great, if not, he is happy at Liverpool.

I think he knows that we hold all the cards, he has 3 years on his contract & won't want to fall out of favour in a world cup year so i think if he stays he'll do his level best & we can still get big money for him next year, but if Real meet the asking price & he goes, i have no doubt Rafa will use the 35m odd wisely and pick up another great midfield buy as well as strenghtening other areas.

I also think Lucas could step up big time, worth remembering that it was Mr Leiva who ran the show in Old Trafford when xabi was out injured

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

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