Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

NabyLadistheman

Some people are never happy - anybody that doesn't think Dirk had a great season needs to get there head checked. Im looking forward to the start if the season, then I think of all the goons who'll be back on posting how crap everyone is after one match! aaahhhh!

stevoslice

yeah, using boards on my mobile usually ends up with me using text speak, i was even trying not to! Oh well.

Who do ya think should come in for kuyt then, given our supposedly small budget, and the players that are available at the moment?

Oh and sorry bout the repost, refreshed the page and resent the post.

Dublin_Gunner

Kess - your stats are all well and good, but here's a stat you didn't mention
(I'll just use the players in the assist list as far down as Dirk)

Player Appearances
Kuyt 38
Lampard 37
Ireland 35
Berbatov 31
Gerrard 30
Van Persie 28
Fabregas 22

So you see, its not as black and white as you'd like to make out.

Those players who got more assists than him, took less games to do it - and in some cases, a LOT less games (look at Fabregas & Van Persie for instance).

Chardee MacDennis

i dont think anyone is saying Kuyt is up there with the fabregas' or van persie's of the league in terms of natural ability though...

spockety

Just noticed that Liverpool are 3/1 for the league on paddypower.com.

Last year it was 25/1 during the summer.

I think the year before that it was 33/1.

Thanks Rafa!

stevoslice

this'll be our year

Dublin_Gunner

BastardPrince wrote: »

i dont think anyone is saying Kuyt is up there with the fabregas' or van persie's of the league in terms of natural ability though...

But to have a proper title challenge, Liverpool FC should have players of that calibre.

And when someone is trying to state he had a brilliant season, compared to who?? Pennant?? Of course he'll have to be compared to the best, if thats what some people here think he is.

torresistheman wrote: »

then I think of all the goons who'll be back on posting how crap everyone is after one match! aaahhhh!

The only goons are the ones willing to accept second best for LFC.

~Rebel~

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Kess - your stats are all well and good, but here's a stat you didn't mention
(I'll just use the players in the assist list as far down as Dirk)

Player Appearances
Kuyt 38
Lampard 37
Ireland 35
Berbatov 31
Gerrard 30
Van Persie 28
Fabregas 22

So you see, its not as black and white as you'd like to make out.

Those players who got more assists than him, took less games to do it - and in some cases, a LOT less games (look at Fabregas & Van Persie for instance).

simple question though, who do you replace him with? none of the guys up there with him play right wing, and most of them play a support striker role. Kuyt gets as many from the wing as the guys who's primary job it is to get assists and goals. And on top of that he controls the ball well, provides width, rarely misplaces a pass and tracks back like a demon.

~Rebel~

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

But to have a proper title challenge, Liverpool FC should have players of that calibre.

And when someone is trying to state he had a brilliant season, compared to who?? Pennant?? Of course he'll have to be compared to the best, if thats what some people here think he is.

Obviously it would be nice to have all our players at the very top rung of player, but it makes far more sense to start by improving the worst positions.

When Kuyt is yielding worse results then Riera, then it makes more sense to think about improving Kuyt. Until then however, he's right up there with our top performers while other positions are still lagging behind a little.

Kess73

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Kess - your stats are all well and good, but here's a stat you didn't mention
(I'll just use the players in the assist list as far down as Dirk)

Player Appearances
Kuyt 38
Lampard 37
Ireland 35
Berbatov 31
Gerrard 30
Van Persie 28
Fabregas 22

So you see, its not as black and white as you'd like to make out.

Those players who got more assists than him, took less games to do it - and in some cases, a LOT less games (look at Fabregas & Van Persie for instance).

NONE of those players play in a wide right or a wide left position, so it is not comparing like with like. I asked if any wide left or wide right player in the Premier Legaue could beat Dirk in terms of assists and goals, and the answer is no, not one can. Which must mean that there must be a hell of a lot of wide players in that league that are average or poor if they are not giving a better return over a season than Dirk.

Plus you go on about games played. Quite a few of the wide players in the league can match Dirk for games played, and still cannot match his return.


All the man can be judged on is on what his gives to the team each season. Last season he gave his normal amount of running and effort, but he added a good goal return and a good assist return. I find it difficult to name one player in the league that would defo have given more than Dirk in his position last season if they played for LFC.


To get better than what Dirk gave to the team last season, you would need to start looking at players in the Ribery/Ronaldo level, and crazy prices notwithstanding, there is no guarantee that the latter of those two would give 12 goals and nine assists in the league over a season.

Dublin_Gunner

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Obviously it would be nice to have all our players at the very top rung of player, but it makes far more sense to start by improving the worst positions.

Ok, improving worse positions - like where? GK? Full back? Centre Back, Midfield, up front?

Yep, makes sense to start at the weakest positions alright

whatawaster

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Ok, improving worse positions - like where? GK? Full back? Centre Back, Midfield, up front?

Yep, makes sense to start at the weakest positions alright

name me one more effective right winger in the premier league than Kuyt

Kess73

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Ok, improving worse positions - like where? GK? Full back? Centre Back, Midfield, up front?

Yep, makes sense to start at the weakest positions alright

Well if Xabi goes then midfield will be one of those positions. Up front is another that is lacking in a genuine goal threat as cover. Wide left, despite me being a fan of Riera, is a position that could be improved upon more easily than wide right, and the left back position depending on what happens with Dossena status and Aurelio's injury

Kess73

whatawaster wrote: »

name me one more effective right winger in the premier league than Kuyt

Well given that Ronaldo is gone, I cannot come up with one. Sure I would love if Dirk could be upgraded, but it would take one hell of a jump in class, not to mention the transfer fee, to do so.

stevoslice

if not kuyt, then who?
Which player could we get to do a better job than dirk?

~Rebel~

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Ok, improving worse positions - like where? GK? Full back? Centre Back, Midfield, up front?

Yep, makes sense to start at the weakest positions alright

........really? like, i pointed it out in the very post you quoted....

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Obviously it would be nice to have all our players at the very top rung of player, but it makes far more sense to start by improving the worst positions.

When Kuyt is yielding worse results then Riera, then it makes more sense to think about improving Kuyt. Until then however, he's right up there with our top performers while other positions are still lagging behind a little.

whatawaster

Kess73 wrote: »

Well if Xabi goes then midfield will be one of those positions. Up front is another that is lacking in a genuine goal threat as cover. Wide left, despite me being a fan of Riera, is a position that could be improved upon more easily than wide right, and the left back position depending on what happens with Dossena status and Aurelio's injury

If Arbeloa stays i think the defense is covered regardless of Dossena leaving.
We need one CM even if Xabi stays. Two if he goes.
Some sort of attacking midfielder is also a must.
I don't see us buying another striker to be honest. Babel, Kuyt, N'Gog can all cover there.

NukaCola

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

But to have a proper title challenge, Liverpool FC should have players of that calibre.

And when someone is trying to state he had a brilliant season, compared to who?? Pennant?? Of course he'll have to be compared to the best, if thats what some people here think he is.



The only goons are the ones willing to accept second best for LFC.

He had a brilliant season compared to any midfield or attacking player in the premier league. I never said he was the best but we certainly dont need to replace him. What we have on the right is good enough to challenge with the addition of Johnson.

NukaCola

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Ok, improving worse positions - like where? GK? Full back? Centre Back, Midfield, up front?

Yep, makes sense to start at the weakest positions alright

How about LB?

I like Insua but IMO needs a little more exp to be first choice. Aurelio is decent but injury prone and can be improved on.

And we need a decent CM.

Lucas could make a big step up this season however even if he does we still need cover.

I honestly dont see Rafa buying any more than one more player unless we lose players

NukaCola

thebhoy wrote: »

if not kuyt, then who?
Which player could we get to do a better job than dirk?

Theres no one i`d have in his position. Sure he doesnt have fancy step overs etc but hes an honest hard working player who extended his contract after one of his best seasons and came out saying he doesnt want to be anywhere else..........unlike some other liverpool players.....

MementoMori

So Pacheco(50), San Jose(51) and Daniel Ayala(52) all have squad numbers.
Kinda strange especially when Dossena doesn't have one anymore. Hmmm????
Might be just waiting for him to come back from hols though, so who knows?

Looking at the current squad I would list our priorities if we are bringing new players as
CM - with Alonso prone to picking up knocks and Masch as Argentina captain, after Lucas we are looking at Spearing as 4th choice CM, unless we shift Gerrard back. While Spearing has promise he is only 20 and is massively inexperienced.
Left sided attacker - After Riera I think we could do with upgrading on Babel (who could have a repeat of last season) Also I don't think Benayoun is a great option on the left if we have Kuyt on the right as we end up too narrow.
CB - Dagger injured again, Carra 32 next birthday ; - I for one would be pretty nervous if we had to name San Jose/Kelly/Ayala in any big games this year. Wouldn't be surprised if we ended up making a move for Distin as cover for a year or two.
Striker - while we do have options here if Torres gets injury there is still a risk factor if we play Kuyt/Babel/Ngog/Nemeth/Voronin.

At the moment I'd say a CB is the likeliest of all depending on how the youngsters do in pre-season, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were no purchases.

mike65

LFC TV IS FREE TO AIR FOR PRE SEASON! so if have an FTA system you can watch for freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N165038090714-1002.htm

I'm using a ex-sub Sky box, could someone with a different FTA set up check its working?

Delayed live coverage of tonights match starts at 9 pm.

~Rebel~

So now Dudek has thrown in a Xabi quote

"This club needs good players and Xabi is a good player."

Who's next to be wheeled out, the tea lady? Kit man perhaps?

We've already her the president, director of football, manager, a couple of players...

Eire-Dearg

Is the friendly this evening on live on TV anywhere?

Eire-Dearg

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Is the friendly this evening on live on TV anywhere?

Live on LFCtv website.

Chardee MacDennis

only with an eSeason ticket though

its on the lfc tv channel from 9-11

Glico Man

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Is the friendly this evening on live on TV anywhere?

Its on LFCTV free @ 9PM, Sky channel 434.

opr

Plenty of streams around as its on LFC TV.

Opr

~Rebel~

Twitter lads with another little flurry of news. We'll know pretty soon how reliable/full of bs they are anyway.

An agreement has been concluded between Real and LFC. Xabi Alonso will join Madrid on 19th July for £26million. More on this incoming...

Update: The initial £26m fee will include additional bonus payments to LFC, appearance dependant, reaching a possible £29m total.

Money will be immediately invested in the Silva/Villa deal, with LFC still having funds to allow for the procurement of Noble/Martinez.

All I can say is that Benitez is very happy with the deal, As is Alonso, regardless of what is being said publicly.

As previously tweeted 2 weeks back, Mascherano WILL be staying at the club and will sign a new deal early next week. Ignore rag-rumours.

Dickerty

CRAP.

"initial £26m fee will include additional bonus payments to LFC, appearance dependant, reaching a possible £29m total.Money will be immediately invested in the Silva/Villa deal, with LFC still having funds to allow for the procurement of Noble/Martinez."

That money wouldn't even cover Villa, never mind another player as well. We would have to add £10M+ to it - though I guess we do have that, have spent single figures so far.

But if we were only 4 days away from the deal, would we still be juggling 4 options?

mike65

Dickerty, didn't Rafa said there was cash for one more buy without selling anyone? So selling Alonso will mean two buys possible.

Its alarming if this tweeter is actually ITK. :eek:

Dublin_Gunner

mike65 wrote: »

Dickerty, didn't Rafa said there was cash for one more buy without selling anyone? So selling Alonso will mean two buys possible.

Its alarming if this tweeter is actually ITK. :eek:

Yes, as GJ really only cost us 10m (with the 7m still owed by Portsmouth to us)

I would imagine we still had in around 20m to spend (give or take), with the supposed 26m from Alonso (which I think should be more, but anyway), that means the guts of 40m to spend.

Eire-Dearg

I think Hicks shat out a dollop of cash if this livertweet lad is ITK.

whatawaster

Here’s what I’ve discovered from my latest visit to RAWK (I know, I know . . . )

Balague was on SSN just now saying he doesn’t know if the Alonso deal will go ahead as the two clubs valuations are so far apart.

Graham Hunter was on Irish radio and he said that Real will pay around 35m for Xabi IF they can sell players first. Also Rafa will use that money to buy David Silva (who Hunter says we’ve been in negotiations with since the start of the summer) and Javi Martinez (has anybody seen this lad play? Is he good?)

Now they’re both probably full of sh*t but thought I’d mention it anyway.

There could(hopefully) be a lot more cash available than everyone thinks.

I'd take any news from this Livertweet with a pinch of salt though

Chardee MacDennis

the arbeloa deal has gone very quiet, i imagine the arbeloa and alonso deal will go through at the same time though so it may make sense!

Mr Alan

if we were to get Silva & Martinez, i'd be happy enough. Martinez i've never seen play except U21's for Spain, where he has looked impressive. He is very highly rated.

~Rebel~

Dickerty wrote: »

CRAP.

"initial £26m fee will include additional bonus payments to LFC, appearance dependant, reaching a possible £29m total.Money will be immediately invested in the Silva/Villa deal, with LFC still having funds to allow for the procurement of Noble/Martinez."

That money wouldn't even cover Villa, never mind another player as well. We would have to add £10M+ to it - though I guess we do have that, have spent single figures so far.

But if we were only 4 days away from the deal, would we still be juggling 4 options?

Sorry, i didn't put the whole deal structure up, just the updates. they put up the rest about a week back. Its Riera + Voronin + 40million for the 2 lads.

Chardee MacDennis

i wouldnt put an ounce of trust in the livertweet but the fact it is so quiet i think there has to be a few big deal brewing behind closed doors.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

if we were to get Silva & Martinez, i'd be happy enough. Martinez i've never seen play except U21's for Spain, where he has looked impressive. He is very highly rated.

And he's 6 foot 3 so should be well able to handle the rough and tumble of the prem. Especially with Mascherano to help him out.

Chardee MacDennis

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Sorry, i didn't put the whole deal structure up, just the updates. they put up the rest about a week back. Its Riera + Voronin + 40million for the 2 lads.

and pacheco on loan

~Rebel~

I stil think there's no hope of us getting both, would love Silva + Martinez/Noble though, would have us slightly weakened in one area, while strengthened in another, and Silva can play up top if needs be as well.

On the Hicks + twitter chaps comment, it does seem like these twitter chaps have a lot of positive things to say about H&G

This season GG/TH will go some way to restoring the faith of lfc fans. All parties will be pulling together in the right direction

There will be no takeover. GG and TH are more committed than ever to making Liverpool the best european club on and off the pitch.

MementoMori

Johnson £17m

Leto £3m
Hobbs £300k
Anderson £250k
Chris Pull Mavinga Compensation Fee (nominal)
Aaron King Compensation Fee (nominal)
Jesus Fernandez Compensation Fee (nominal)

The compensation fees for Mavinga, King and Fernandez aren't like to add up to much especially King and Fernandez who are only 16.

Hobbs was reportedly sold for £400k according to Leicester sites but he had a sell-on clause so I think we only received £300k net (still a profit on what we paid but not a great price imo)

Even including the compensation fee we are looking at a net spend of about £14.5m. If you take into account the £7m owed on Crouch (which is a bit dodgy), our actual cash outlay is down to £7.5m net. When you take into account that after the sale of Keane last summer's net spent was around the £1.5m mark, you'd have to imagine there would be some money available.

However even with all this I can't see there being enough money, even after the sale of Alonso to pay for Villa and Silva and one of Noble/Martinez.

Assuming Villa at €45m and Silva at €18m (not much more than the £15m bid which was turned down) and you're taking about a sum of over £53m.
Take the Alonso amount of £26m away from that and you are still talking of paying Valencia £27m. The very minimimum I can see either Noble or Martinez costing is £8m (and that's probably being optimistic) which would mean the owners funding the transaction to the cost of £35m on top of the £14.5m spent already this summer. I just don't see it happening.

However if you take Villa out of the equation it becomes a lot more feasible
Alonso £26m = Silva £16m + Noble/Martinez £10m - figures may not be accurate but just used to provide an idea.

Probable just pointless speculation.

Roll on St Gallen.

Bounty Hunter

is Silva really worth £17m or so considering Riera who is already at Liverpool is currently keeping him out of the Spanish squad?

Chardee MacDennis

well hes younger and a different type of player, i would prefer the small and fast type player than a powerful and big player like Riera but thats my personal opinion.

Mr Alan

Silva can also play brilliatly in Gerrards role and as a striker.

mike65

MementoMori, you are not taking Arby into account - if he is still going, for 7/8 million.

MementoMori

mike65 wrote: »

MementoMori, you are not taking Arby into account - if he is still going, for 7/8 million.

Good point although I'm beginning to be a bit sceptical this might actually happen given Real's intital offer of €5m.

I also didn't realise Voronin and Riera were invovled in the Silva + Villa deal until I read Rebel post after I had posted.

Even still overall I think it's hugely unlikely given the amount of variables involved - Alonso, Villa, Silva, Riera, Voronin and Arbeloa all moving?

Just reeks of FM fantasy scenario stuff.

~Rebel~

MementoMori wrote: »

Good point although I'm beginning to be a bit sceptical this might actually happen given Real's intital offer of €5m.

I also didn't realise Voronin and Riera were invovled in the Silva + Villa deal until I read Rebel post after I had posted.

Even still overall I think it's hugely unlikely given the amount of variables involved - Alonso, Villa, Silva, Riera, Voronin and Arbeloa all moving?

Just reeks of FM fantasy scenario stuff.

True, and id rather we just didn't sign Villa and kept Voro and Riera and the extra money, and go for Silva and Martinez/Noble. Riera is awesome backup for Silva, both provide different options, some games will suit the width of riera, others the cutting style of silva.

Villa, while obviously a top notch player, just seems like a waste of money when all four attacking positions would be sewn up pretty nicely, with decent backup there too. With liverpool's financial situation it doesn't make sense to pay that much for someone who isn't a vital first teamer.

That said if villa did come in, id still probably dance a jig while ejaculating all over the place.

rossie1977

BastardPrince wrote: »

well hes younger and a different type of player, i would prefer the small and fast type player than a powerful and big player like Riera but thats my personal opinion.

very rare that a small, fast winger makes it at the top level in english football, especially foreign players, if you look down through the years top wingers the likes of giggs, mcmanaman, barnes, c.ronaldo and many others were all around 6ft, looked what happened to reyes at arsenal, fullbacks just overpowered him