Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

shotamoose

-Snip-

mike65

See previous page/s.

Mike.

gucci

Tusky wrote: »

For anyone who had forgotten how good a season Gerrard had last year - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7VutOOOgLRg

I had forgotten a good few of the goals. Some of them are fantastic!

Thanks for that tusky, i dont really get on these boards too often anymore, and its usually full of bickering and negative stuff, thankfully the season kicks off today and we can talk about football again rather that just press/speculation and waffle. that video has me back optimism etc again!

Come on the reds!

mike65

I HATE music on these vids, nothing beats the sound of the crowd and excitible commentary.

Mike.

Tusky

Mike - Ive looked back a couple of pages and I cant see that story posted anywhere. Also, its only from todays papers...

Alonso asks to leave

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/aug/16/premierleague.liverpool

The fall-out from Liverpool's arduous pursuit of Gareth Barry continued yesterday when Xabi Alonso asked to leave Anfield and Rafael Benítez revealed evidence of his strained relationship with the club's chief executive, Rick Parry.

Alonso, a recent transfer target for Juventus and Arsenal, wants to be sold having become disillusioned with the manager's attempts to finance the Barry deal by off-loading the Spain international amid concerns that his first team chances will be reduced this season. The 26-year-old has not submitted a transfer request, but has asked the club to renew its efforts to sell him in the coming weeks - a stance that will alert the Arsenal manager, Arsène Wenger.

Arsenal are the only club to have made an official inquiry about Alonso since his proposed transfer to Juventus collapsed over Liverpool's £18m valuation. They too, however, share the Italians' view that Liverpool's price-tag is excessive and are only prepared to pay around £12m for the playmaker who moved to Anfield from Real Sociedad for £10.5m in 2004. Without a compromise from either party Alonso will be left in limbo this season but Benítez remains intent on signing Barry, who is also valued at £18m by Aston Villa, and is prepared to sell his compatriot and/or Jermaine Pennant and Andriy Voronin to fund the transfer of his own accord.

Benítez was refused a short-term loan to complete the Barry transfer last week by the Liverpool owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, with Parry, while denying the Americans had not backed their manager's judgement, issuing a statement that confirmed Villa's asking price was "too high". The Liverpool manager has since had e-mail conversations with the Americans and has been told money is available for other transfers. But yesterday he dismissed suggestions he had driven up Barry's price by publicly revealing Liverpool's interest before the end of last season and that the failure to sell Alonso had changed the club's transfer policy. In doing so, he indicated the Liverpool chief executive was accountable for the Barry saga now entering its fourth month.

"I get blamed for everything, for global warming to high petrol prices," said Benítez. "But in this case [Barry] I want to be very clear. Since I talked to Martin O'Neill about the situation in April, I have not talked to anyone at Aston Villa. All the talks have been between our chief executive Rick Parry, the owner and the chief executive of Aston Villa. And those talks have all been pretty good.

"If anyone wants to talk about Barry in the future they must talk with the owner, Rick Parry or the chief executive of Aston Villa. I was not involved in the talks about Barry, I was not involved in the talks about Alonso and Arsenal. If you want to talk about these players you must talk to the chief executive of our club who was handling the discussions. If you want to talk about football, then you talk with me."

The Liverpool manager remains confident of a resolution before the close of the transfer window, however. "We continue working and we have time. I have some players in mind," he added.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport-news/liverpool-fc/2008/08/16/alonso-tells-liverpool-manager-he-wants-to-go-55578-21543571/

XABI ALONSO has told Liverpool he wants to leave Anfield – but is likely to be priced out of a move to Arsenal.

The Spanish midfielder’s future has been the subject of debate throughout the summer, particularly with Rafael Benitez intent on signing Gareth Barry.

Alonso was on the verge of a £16m move to Juventus until the deal collapsed with the Italian side signing Sevilla’s Christian Poulsen instead.

The Spain international has since been linked with interest from Arsenal, and Liverpool manager Benitez revealed yesterday that talks had taken place between officials from Anfield and the Emirates.

But it is thought Arsene Wenger is unwilling to meet Liverpool’s asking price for the 26-year-old.

Alonso is cup-tied in Europe until the new year after appearing in Liverpool’s Champions League qualifier in Belgium against Standard Liege on Wednesday night.

Alonso, who was signed for £10.7m from Real Sociedad in August 2004, was loudly cheered by home supporters during the friendly against Lazio last week. However, the Spaniard has now informed Benitez he wants a fresh challenge.

Ballague update -


http://www.guillembalague.com/interview_desp.php?id=19

Balague Update.

Response to Benitez quit report

Just after the story about Rafa Benitez thinking of quitting was published on our website on Friday evening, I got a call from the Spanish manager. It was a frank exchange of words and one thing became very clear: Rafa's commitment to Liverpool Football Club is absolute.

Rafa said “I am not thinking of leaving. My commitment with the club, the fans and the players is so big that just because I can be disappointed about different things, I won’t stop trying my best to achieve all of the targets that we have established as a team."

" My family and myself are very thankful to the club, the fans and the city and we will never give up fighting to get the best for Liverpool,” he added

From those words every one of you can come to their own conclusions. I think it is quite obvious that there are conflicts at the club and also that it was probably not good idea to come out with that kind of story just before the beginning of the season.

However, as I see it, that fact,coupled with Rafa’s words, does not change the content of what I wrote on Friday - and I stand by it completely.


It seems to me that there are two different forces working at the club that are sometimes pulling in different directions: something that the owners choose to ignore.

It is only normal that the manager despairs some times and even thinks about quitting. In periods of bonanza (when the team wins titles or outside the transfer market periods) there exists a creative relationship between manager and key members of the board; but there are other times, like in recent weeks, where the tension grows and it appears as if they are working against each other.

There remain questions that need to be answered. If Rafa was happy to let Xabi Alonso go to Juventus, why hasn’t he gone? If Rafa wanted the arrival of Gareth Barry prior to Robbie Keane, why hasn’t he come - and how is it that it has taken months for Liverpool to tell Aston Villa that their valuation of the player is too high? Whatever the manager wants is not always what he gets. Is that good for the club?

gucci

mike65 wrote: »

I HATE music on these vids, nothing beats the sound of the crowd and excitible commentary.

Mike.

Totally, their ususally like something you'd hear coming out of a eastern eurpoean builders van on the weekend, that crappy dance with a female singing through a synthesizer....
first game of the season, the time we usually get to be optimistic.....!!pity there is so much back room talk giving out negative stuff, its gonna be a long season of this hicks/gillette crap....hopefully the team can keep it all from effecting them and get on with it.

machiavellianme

At least 2 of our 3 Olympians will be back after Tuesday. The winner of Brazil v Cameroon play the winner of Argentina V Netherlands in the semis on Tuesday. Either Mascherano or Babel can book their flight home at 5pm this afternoon though. Would it be bad form to wish it was Mascherano?

Tusky

machiavellianme wrote: »

At least 2 of our 3 Olympians will be back after Tuesday. The winner of Brazil v Cameroon play the winner of Argentina V Netherlands in the semis on Tuesday. Either Mascherano or Babel can book their flight home at 5pm this afternoon though. Would it be bad form to wish it was Mascherano?

With the fixtures we have, I think we need Babel more.

MementoMori

Tusky wrote: »

With the fixtures we have, I think we need Babel
more.

I'd agree - the left side is a worry.

In injury time in the Brazil Cameroon game - still 0-0 - Cameroon down to 10 mins since around the 50 min mark - Cameroon playing v defensively - I don't know if there is extra-time or penalties. Would assume ET but this competition is so strange I don't know.

Only seen the second half - Lucas has played well - very nice and tidy - however the Cameroon do onlyhave the ten men. As against that Brazil havent created too many clear cut chances.

mike65

Mike - Ive looked back a couple of pages and I cant see that story posted anywhere. Also, its only from todays papers...

Tusky (and shotamoose) my bad if I got it wrong (maybe all these articles are starting to look the same), as for Balague. maybe he should just keep a lid on it. While it could smack of "head-in-the-sand" I'd prefer not to read about Rafa leaving before a Prem ball has been kicked.

Mike.

Tusky

mike65 wrote: »

Tusky (and shotamoose) my bad if I got it wrong (maybe all these articles are starting to look the same), as for Balague. maybe he should just keep a lid on it. While it could smack of "head-in-the-sand" I'd prefer not to read about Rafa leaving before a Prem ball has been kicked.

Mike.

Well the second article is pretty much a retraction. Sounds like Rafa gave him a bollocking.

mike65

Some reckon this is Rafa using his friend for "political" reasons but its all a bit messy and I can't see a "plan" - after all if G&H called his bluff and sacked him who would replace him? No one in thier right mind (who Liverpool might want) would take the job.

Mike.

machiavellianme

mike65 wrote: »

Some reckon this is Rafa using his friend for "political" reasons but its all a bit messy and I can't see a "plan" - after all if G&H called his bluff and sacked him who would replace him? No one in thier right mind (who Liverpool might want) would take the job.

Mike.

Hughes? I'm sure he'd be in a marginally better situation. Oh wait, I noticed the bit in brackets. Nevermind.

gixerfixer

mike65 wrote: »

Some reckon this is Rafa using his friend for "political" reasons but its all a bit messy and I can't see a "plan" - after all if G&H called his bluff and sacked him who would replace him? No one in thier right mind (who Liverpool might want) would take the job.

Mike.

Ah come on now.The most successful club in the history of the game in England and no one would want to manage them? I think not

Dont be at yourself

I can't think of anybody who could come in and take over from Rafa.

Most of the promising managers in Spain have secured new jobs or contracts over the summer, and Italy is still reliant on the same old faces!

leninbenjamin

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I can't think of anybody who could come in and take over from Rafa.

Most of the promising managers in Spain have secured new jobs or contracts over the summer, and Italy is still reliant on the same old faces!

i'll be f*cking killed for this, but i'm going to say it anyway:

Moyes.

Chardee MacDennis

leninbenjamin wrote: »

i'll be f*cking killed for this, but i'm going to say it anyway:

Moyes.

:eek: get out....

i really dont rate him, he's a Sam Allerdyce great with a small club but i dont think he will ever make the step up.

EDIT: pointless conversation btw Rafa aint going anywhere...

PHB

To re-iterate

GuanYin wrote: »

Please note the following Rules:

1. NO MATCH DISCUSSIONS
- Match threads will be created for matches/match weeks where required.
- Match discussion will be deleted.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055356406

mike65

Fer petes sake.

Alright.

Mike.

PHB

It'll work out better, trust me

Tusky

I dont understand that rule. The problems that arise in these superthreads arent because people discuss matches, its because posters constantly bring up the same stuff over and over again and derail the thread.

PHB

Tusky wrote: »

I dont understand that rule. The problems that arise in these superthreads arent because people discuss matches, its because posters constantly bring up the same stuff over and over again and derail the thread.

Take it to the discussion of rules thread?

whatawaster

good to see Rafa saying he wants to stay. Good news indeed.
And good to see Babel back next week.

PiE

PHB wrote: »

Take it to the discussion of rules thread?

Take it to the suggestions forum.

Villain

See my post here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055334961&page=9

PHB

Just to say this again:
To re-iterate

GuanYin wrote: »

Please note the following Rules:

1. NO MATCH DISCUSSIONS
- Match threads will be created for matches/match weeks where required.
- Match discussion will be deleted.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055356406

mayordenis

yea we saw it ok, well done, you've made your point, you're an absolute legend.

yayamark

Was my post deleted?

PHB

yayamark wrote: »

Was my post deleted?

It was moved

Villain

You know if Rafa could splash out a few wingers or even one and get the best out of Babel they could really push on, although at the same time if Torres was to get injured long term they could really struggle.

mike65

A game of two halves. Plessis was subbed for injury not tactical which is alarming in itself. Alonso changed the game with a fine cameo that showed he can do it, but as his future is still up in the air I'm not going to get excited. As for the rest, Keane/Torres is not happening at all. Kuyt was a waste of space today that there was no Pennant to call upon is not great (the bench was rather odd anyways), Masch and Babel cannot get back quick enough and we need a winger. Sorry for stating the bleeding obvious.

Mike.

Jazzy

i fail to see the difference in having gareth barry instead of alonso in todays match.
if anything we needed a better wide player on the right. Kuyt, Keane and Gerrard all ended up on that right side today and it all became very confusing.
Keane needs a bit more time to gel i think. give him till the end of the month, then the honeymoon period is over

Villain

Rafa says Alonso was sub because of a dead leg.

redspider

I came in here to talk about the Liverpool match, but I spotted this:

> Please note the following Rules: 1. NO MATCH DISCUSSIONS - Match discussion will be deleted.

Hold on, its natural and makes common sense for Liverpool matches to be discussed in this thread, and likewise any match of any club would be valid to be posted in their thread.

Who decided on this rule?

Since when is what happened in a Liverpool match not relevant to the "Liverpool FC Team Talk" thread, a Man Utd match not relevant to "Man Utd Team Talk" thread, etc, etc?

Was there a vote on it which I missed? Or who were the 'wise kings' that decided this?

I'm in favour of changing the rule back. All those in favour, say aye .....

Redspider

73:11 Shot by Fernando Torres (Liverpool) right-footed from right side of six-yard box (6 yards), blocked by Robbie Keane (Liverpool).

Mind you, I understand that his performance wasnt too bad.

Tusky

AYE

Alonso changed the game. Hes a million times the player Plessis is.

The game was really frustrating and we created absolutely nothing in the first half but should have had a peno. The second half was a bit better but we still looked lethargic and disorganized.

To the 'omgz we dont play wingers' brigade - we were playing with wingers today. The wings were a massive problem area.

Benayoun, Aurelio, Kuyt & El feckin Zhar on our wings ? BLAH is what I have to say to that. Why is El Zhar in the squad above other more promising reserve team players...or even Pennant?!

Also thought Dossena & Arbeloa were awful.

The two positives to take away from this in my opinion are -

1) Fernando Torres getting a fantastic goal out of nothing in the first game away from home.

2) Pepe Reina. I just think he has looked really solid in the games hes played thus far. Didnt have to do anything major today but he always looked confident.

ibh

Tusky wrote: »

AYE

Alonso changed the game. Hes a million times the player Plessis is.

The game was really frustrating and we created absolutely nothing in the first half but should have had a peno. The second half was a bit better but we still looked lethargic and disorganized.

To the 'omgz we dont play wingers' brigade - we were playing with wingers today. The wings were a massive problem area.

Benayoun, Aurelio, Kuyt & El feckin Zhar on our wings ? BLAH is what I have to say to that. Why is El Zhar in the squad above other more promising reserve team players...or even Pennant?!

Also thought Dossena & Arbeloa were awful.

The two positives to take away from this in my opinion are -

1) Fernando Torres getting a fantastic goal out of nothing in the first game away from home.

2) Pepe Reina. I just think he has looked really solid in the games hes played thus far. Didnt have to do anything major today but he always looked confident.

I presume that Pennant is no longer in the squad cause Rafa has realised he's a cnut.

I think the reason alonso didnt start had to be injury. Dead leg or what ever. I read this morning that he had a 'knock' so it probably was wise to leave him out.
I would have preferred to see Kuyt subbed at HT though. Let Alonso in with Plessis and let Gerrard hit the right flank or alternate with Keane and Benny.

Alonso is one of my favourite pool players and i think he still has a big part to play esp when the Mascher is back on the scene.

raven136

glad to see the usual liverpool fan common sense reaction ion show today:D

we played a decent team who were well up for it,and id fancy them to hit top ten if they could find a striker.
We won playing not that great,we have torres for games like this and he and keane will take a while to gel,lets give them a chance.
Plessis is a kid and if the papers are to believed xabi asked to leave last night so would you have put him in?(although he was good)
Kuyt wasnt great but with babel and masch back we look better.
A win is a win,who cares how we played.I want wins thats it.

If in 5 games time the situation is a situation is the same then it wil be worrying.

Im far more worried about the rafa situation.

Why do we suffer so bad at taking corners?

redspider

AYE - AYE

Tusky wrote: »

AYE
Alonso changed the game. Hes a million times the player Plessis is.
Why is El Zhar in the squad above other more promising reserve team players...or even Pennant?!
Also thought Dossena & Arbeloa were awful.
The two positives to take away 1) Fernando Torres 2) Pepe Reina.

I didnt see the game (I had to rescue somebody's car form a flood!). I hope to catch the highlights later.

Good to hear that Alonso did well, that should give some of the recent doubters some food for thought. I think it would be hard for Plessis to play at the level we require/desire as he is still young and gaining experience. He could make an okay sub this season though once Masch is back along with Leiva. Torres IS our saviour and the only reason why I feel confident of us securing a top-4 place. Without him, we wouldnt have much of a chance I think. If he does get injured, we will be relying on Robbie as the front man.

Wide is a problem, I'm hoping for Babel to help sort that out. Yes, I too am surprised that El Zhar is getting so many run outs. He must have impressed Benitez in pre-season and in training. We havent seen much of it so far in a competitive match.

Not good to hear about Arbeloa and Dossena. I wonder what it will take for Finnan to be given another run?

In terms of club issues, I was surprised by Rafa's recent public 'outburst', he must be frustrated, but that's what Owners and Chief Executives are like. Overall, Rafa got one of his targets, Robbie Keane for 20.3m, which most managers would be more than happy with. Rafa perhaps should have courted Barry on the sly, if he really wanted him. But overall, many people dont see how either Keane or Barry will be major solutions to Liverpool's "ills", and if these are Rafa's two main targets, its easy to see how Owners and Parry are 'questioning' the reasoning. At this moment, singing Barry would be a major surprise for me, unless it was at 12m-15m or something.

Redspider

whatawaster

Good result, poor performance. We are clearly still at least one player short, even when the olympians come back. Babel, whether it be last season's inconsistent Babel, or a new and improved version, is badly missed. Someone who can play on either wing is needed sharpish. Or

whatawaster

I thought Plessis did ok in the first half. Remember that Gerrard isn't an easy player to play alongside in a midfield two. He showed for the ball from the back four and generally made simple passes. He just needs to learn to impose himself on the game more.

Can't understand why N'Gog didn't get a run out. El Zhar is very average.

jesus_thats_gre

Same old craic in that match to be honest. Tis extremely important that we win there kind of matches though so i am happy enough.

Tusky

Rafa on Alonso -

Explaining his decision not to start with Xabi Alonso, Benitez added: "Xabi had a dead leg and we needed to protect him. Plessis was injured too with a knock on his lower back, so I needed to bring Xabi on for the second half.

"We knew Xabi could be only 80 per cent but he played well. Xabi is our player and he is playing well. If he continues to play like this I will be really pleased."

Good to hear.

gucci

Alonso didnt turn the game when he came in, but he made us look more capable of playing football than in the first half. As pointed out before, dossena and arebola were pathetic going forward. stevie g must have had 10 or 11 corners and very few of them hit an dangerous area, never mind getting close to sami or someone who would threaten.So there is some critical areas to improve. It must be the th season of having Sami playing that we havent had anyone capable of finding him from a corner. there is no shame in scoring from set pieces!! come on guys sort it out!

But we won. we have torres, what an awesome finish. delighted he picked up where he left off. was very unfortunate the mix up and him and keane earlier. A win is a win, so its a good start on paper, lots of areas to improve. but its early days so lets not get too carried away either way yet.

Tusky

gucci wrote: »

Alonso didnt turn the game when he came in, but he made us look more capable of playing football than in the first half. As pointed out before, dossena and arebola were pathetic going forward. stevie g must have had 10 or 11 corners and very few of them hit an dangerous area, never mind getting close to sami or someone who would threaten.So there is some critical areas to improve. It must be the th season of having Sami playing that we havent had anyone capable of finding him from a corner. there is no shame in scoring from set pieces!! come on guys sort it out!

But we won. we have torres, what an awesome finish. delighted he picked up where he left off. was very unfortunate the mix up and him and keane earlier. A win is a win, so its a good start on paper, lots of areas to improve. but its early days so lets not get too carried away either way yet.

If you compare what Alonso offered to what Plessis offered, Id say he turned the game. Got on the ball, made plenty of passes, some didnt come off some did. Got an assist for the only goal in the game.

Until Mascherano is back, I really think the below is the way forward.

---

Torres

Babel

---

Keane

---

Kuyt

---

Alonso--Gerrard

Dossena--Agger--Carra--Arbeloa

---

Reina

gucci

Yeah i guess so, he offered 100% more than plessis, so he probably did turn the game on that fact alone. cant wait til masch is back, although it could be a bit of a shuffle to try get him, gerard, alonso into the one team...kuyt or keane to make way? or will it depend on the opposition?

Tusky

gucci wrote: »

Yeah i guess so, he offered 100% more than plessis, so he probably did turn the game on that fact alone. cant wait til masch is back, although it could be a bit of a shuffle to try get him, gerard, alonso into the one team...kuyt or keane to make way? or will it depend on the opposition?

I think it will just mean playing either Gerrard or Keane in Kuyts current position.

---

Torres

Babel

---

Gerrard

---

Keane

---

Alonso--Masch

raven136

kuyt was very poor but cresit where its due Yossi was very good.If we have him and alonso on top form almost always we could do very well.Both have a great eye for a pass
Lets not forget its the first game and not the end of the world.Bad performance but great win
All this talk of how bad we did,spurs spent a fortune and look at them today

redspider

Babel and Masch will be back around the same time most likely.

One option which I'll repeat is to accomodate Keane and Gerrard perhaps in an Xmas-tree formation, 4-3-2-1, ala:

---

Reina

---

RB - Carra - CB ---- LB
Kuyt - Masch - Alonso/Babel
--- Keane --- Gerrard -

---

Torres

---

Its something akin to a 4-3-3. But what it does clearly imply is that there are no wide midfielders nor wingers. Babel could also play in Alonso's slot for variation and provide a winger-like player although he likes coming in and shooting. The challenge for such a formation is defending against a team that have good wide men.

Today, somewhere (I wont mention the word m___h), it was 4-4-2:

---

Reina

---

Arbeloa-Carra-Hyypia-Dossena
Kuyt-Plessis-Gerrard-Benayoun
---- Keane

---

Torres

---

with Alonso coming in for Plessis. It didnt work really. Gerrard has too much work tacking back to be able to be a spearhead behind Torres. Playing him as a CM with a defending/holding responsibility clearly curtails his presence at the business end of the pitch. Torres suffered as a result.

Robbie just cant fit in, although he had a good touch, but as Liverpool dont have any wide men (ala Lennon) gaps werent appearing and the opposition were able to pick him off. He got off one reasonable effort, BUT he blocked Torres from scoring a near certainty. By the way, that was also a clear penalty. Liverpool clearly deserved the 3 pts.

The formation question remains open. Granted Rafa may be frustrated by the Owners or Parry, but that is the situation at Liverpool at the moment and it wont change. This is Rafa's 5th season now, and with a lack of silverware last season, there will be pressure form Owners and Fans alike for silverware this season. It will be interesting to see how Rafa optimizes his 'squad selections' for the competitions.

Redspider

raven136

redspider wrote: »

BThe formation question remains open. Granted Rafa may be frustrated by the Owners or Parry, but that is the situation at Liverpool at the moment and it wont change. This is Rafa's 5th season now, and with a lack of silverware last season, there will be pressure form Owners and Fans alike for silverware this season. It will be interesting to see how Rafa optimizes his 'squad selections' for the competitions.

Redspider

i dont see it that way.All the fans at games and ones who arent swayed by the media are id say 100%behind rafa.I understand his frustration,we have to trust his judgement in regards to players and all.

The premierleague predictions in the media all poured massive pressure on rafa and liverpool while basically giving arsenal a free ride,something i can understand.
Did anyone hear paul parker on newstalk on friday,he said rafa has a bad transfer record and most of his signings head straight back to spain after failing with us.Do these lads even pay attention to football?agger,reina,skertl,masch,torres.
I know parker is a manc but such bulls##t takes the biscuit.

Tusky

Dont really like that formation. Kuyt only works out wide if he is really far forward. Same for Benayoun and Id bet it would be the same for Babel. They are not traditional wingers..in fact, they consider themselves strikers. Playing them as wide forwards works ok but in that formation they would be a bit deep.

Once we get Mascherano back it will give the full backs more license to go forward so hopefully that will create some width.

Babel should be back in Liverpool tomorrow having been knocked out today.