Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Jazzy

gareth barry would have made no difference todays result. a quality right winger would have

jesus_thats_gre

Tusky wrote: »

Until Mascherano is back, I really think the below is the way forward.

---

Torres

Babel

---

Keane

---

Kuyt

---

Alonso--Gerrard

Dossena--Agger--Carra--Arbeloa

---

Reina

I don't think that there is any doubt about this. Mind you, playing Hypia today was a major surprise.

I have been thinking about how we might play when we do eventually get everyone back and if we do sign Barry. I have come to this conclusion:

---

Reina

---

Arbeloa

---

Carra

---

Agger

---

Dossena

---

Masch

---

---

Gerard

---

Barry

---

---

Keane

---

Babel

---

---

Torres

---

When attacking, the above will become:

---

Reina

---

---

---

Carra

---

Masch

---

Agger

---

Arbeloa

---

Gerard

---

Barry

---

Dossena

---

Keane

---

Torres

---

Babel

---

LuckyLloyd

Leagues are won with these types of end results - i.e. getting the extra two points you don't deserve despite the poor performance.

leninbenjamin

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I don't think that there is any doubt about this. Mind you, playing Hypia today was a major surprise.

I have been thinking about how we might play when we do eventually get everyone back and if we do sign Barry. I have come to this conclusion:

---

Reina

---

Arbeloa

---

Carra

---

Agger

---

Dossena

---

Masch

---

---

Gerard

---

Barry

---

---

Keane

---

Babel

---

---

Torres

---

When attacking, the above will become:

---

Reina

---

---

---

Carra

---

Masch

---

Agger

---

Arbeloa

---

Gerard

---

Barry

---

Dossena

---

Keane

---

Torres

---

Babel

---

the thing there is though that you end up with exactly the same weaknesses as you did in the beginning of the window. square pegs, round hole, namely Keane and Babel.

Boggles

raven136 wrote: »

kuyt was very poor but cresit where its due Yossi was very good.

You must have been watching a different match, Yossi was terrible. In fairness to Kuyt he was brutal on the wing but when he moved more central in the latter stages he caused the Sunderland defense a bit of trouble.

dfx-

Jazzy wrote: »

gareth barry would have made no difference todays result. a quality right winger would have

A scarecrow standing on the wing would be more useful to Liverpool at this point. They are narrow beyond belief.

Jazzy

dfx- wrote: »

A scarecrow standing on the wing would be more useful to Liverpool at this point. They are narrow beyond belief.

yeah i know. such a pain to watch sometimes. ive been calling out for a quality winger for years that actually uses the length and breadth of the pitch rather then this narrow play. remember how chelsea knoocked us out last year? Kalou using the space of the pitch to knock a ball in. granted riise had to f**k it up too but sometimes thats wat u need to get through

What a goal, what a player!



Torres!

The Rooster

Tusky wrote: »

I think it will just mean playing either Gerrard or Keane in Kuyts current position.

---

Torres

Babel

---

Gerrard

---

Keane

---

Alonso--Masch

This is clearly our best team/formation (plus some sort of back 4 ) with Babel, Gerrard and Keane being very fluid and regularly inter-changing. 3 totally different players, should be a good combination. But how often will we see it? Will useless hole Kuyt ever get dropped??

redspider

I think in a 4-2-3-1 its clear that Babel could be on the left in the 3 and Gerrard in the centre. The problem is on the right hand side. Robbie doesnt fill that role if you ask me, and wont be able to defend ala Kuyt. Kuyt doesnt fill the role either in terms of his attacking attributes. There lies the problem Robbie could play the centre perhaps but then we'd have Stevie play on the right, and that doesnt use him to his best. I think Benitez will try this out at least once though as he knows that wherever he throws Gerrard, he'll ty his best and do okay.

There is no easy decision I dont think with 4-2-3-1 as we dont have the personnel and Berry would not plug thaht hole either. With 4-3-2-1 it is easier in terms of players attributes suiting their roles but it requires the 3 to work differently than the 2 in the current formation, and someone would have to be designated central. That should be Masch.

One thing I noticed about yesterday (yes, it was in a match!) was that Kuyt and Arbeloa were so short on ideas when on the ball. They kept passing the ball forward and back and from side to side with each other without creating or threatening to creeate anything.

Redspider

PHB

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I have been thinking about how we might play when we do eventually get everyone back and if we do sign Barry. I have come to this conclusion:

---

Reina

---

Arbeloa

---

Carra

---

Agger

---

Dossena

---

Masch

---

---

Gerard

---

Barry

---

---

Keane

---

Babel

---

---

Torres

---

When attacking, the above will become:

---

Reina

---

---

---

Carra

---

Masch

---

Agger

---

Arbeloa

---

Gerard

---

Barry

---

Dossena

---

Keane

---

Torres

---

Babel

---

Seems to me like Rafa has become very fond of 2 deep lying midfielders. You've got your DMC (Mascherano) who is always sitting back and your more creative midfielder who is box-to-box. I'd imagine in general Barry/Alonso would be sitting relatively back, but pushing up only occassionally.

whatawaster

Boggles wrote: »

You must have been watching a different match, Yossi was terrible. In fairness to Kuyt he was brutal on the wing but when he moved more central in the latter stages he caused the Sunderland defense a bit of trouble.

Yossi was very good, especially in the first half when he looked our only threat.

The Rooster

redspider wrote: »

I think in a 4-2-3-1 its clear that Babel could be on the left in the 3 and Gerrard in the centre. The problem is on the right hand side. Robbie doesnt fill that role if you ask me, and wont be able to defend ala Kuyt. Kuyt doesnt fill the role either in terms of his attacking attributes. There lies the problem Robbie could play the centre perhaps but then we'd have Stevie play on the right, and that doesnt use him to his best. I think Benitez will try this out at least once though as he knows that wherever he throws Gerrard, he'll ty his best and do okay.

Gerrard has played some of his best football for Liverpool out wide. In any event the 3 should be very fluid, constantly switching between right, left and centre.

Defensive ability is irrelevant for these 3 when Mascho is back, so long as they do their bit of work. Not that Robbie is any worse than Babel in that dept

Dont be at yourself

redspider wrote:

I think in a 4-2-3-1 its clear that Babel could be on the left in the 3 and Gerrard in the centre. The problem is on the right hand side. Robbie doesnt fill that role if you ask me, and wont be able to defend ala Kuyt. Kuyt doesnt fill the role either in terms of his attacking attributes. There lies the problem Robbie could play the centre perhaps but then we'd have Stevie play on the right, and that doesnt use him to his best. I think Benitez will try this out at least once though as he knows that wherever he throws Gerrard, he'll ty his best and do okay.

Gerrard had a fantastic season on the right, and I think Babel on the left, Keane off Torres and Gerrard on the right could be our strongest formation.

slingerz

Ideally you'd have Mascherano and Alonso as the defensive 2 with Gerrard wide right, Keane in behind and Babel wide left. A player of Robben/Quaresma's quality is sadly lacking from Liverpool at the moment. Kuyt works hard in fairness to him but he offers nothing out wide and only congests things by comng inside. Pennant would be a better option than him.

Whats the story with El Zhar getting a few runs? I thought Nemeth/Pacheo would be closer tot he team than him?

Tusky

We have money for another big signing apparently.

Rafael Benitez made the position of chief executive Rick Parry untenable in the aftermath of Liverpool’s first win of the season, revealing he had been in direct contact with co-owner Tom Hicks about the farcical stuttering of the club’s efforts to sign Gareth Barry from Aston Villa and and sell Xabi Alonso.

Benitez made it abundantly clear that he blamed Parry for the club’s failure to sign Barry, the player he had identified as his prime target back in April, and revealed he had gone straight to the owner to ensure there was a resolution of the issue.

“I was in contact with Tom Hicks and I was told we have the money because we were selling players for more than £20 million, so we had enough and we have enough,” Benitez said. “And if we sell or one or two players we’ll have enough to sign another good player. I will not say which player but I have the support of at least one of the owners.

“I sent emails to all of them. He was clear that we had some money, he told me if I sell players, you can buy these players. So it isn’t a question of money. We have problems because we are not doing things that, in my opinion, we have to do in terms of signing players.’’ When asked directly if the problem was with the chief executive, Benitez made it clear he felt the club’s business was not being conducted properly.

“The question is that we have to be quicker and I told them these things four years ago and I continue thinking the same,” he said. ‘‘That way we can save more money and be able to sign the targets we have.”

Benitez was also clear in denying reports that he was prepared to quit because of the problems at Anfield. “My commitment to the club is 100 per cent, to the fans, with the players, with the club in general. I’ve said it 100 times — my family is really happy here and I want to win trophies with Liverpool.”

raven136

Parry is ajoke,the americans are a joke,the only one with the clubs interest at heart is rafa.
Give him the money,lets see what he gets and leave it at that.
Chief executives and owners cant be dictating what type of player we buy,its not like its their own personal money:rolleyes:

jesus_thats_gre

About El Zhar, I think he is putting him on show to generate some interest in him in the hope that we can get 2/3/4 million for him.

Tusky

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

About El Zhar, I think he is putting him on show to generate some interest in him in the hope that we can get 2/3/4 million for him.

Not really the best time to do it considering it was looking like we were going to draw...

el rabitos

i think its more about generating competition for places while we're light in a few areas

jesus_thats_gre

Tusky wrote: »

Not really the best time to do it considering it was looking like we were going to draw...

Maybe not but to go from barely using him in pre-season to using him in the first two competitive games of the season is odd if he isn't up to something.

mike65

Liverpool fans trying to get inside the head of the Liverpool manager is destined to end in tears of frustration.

Mike.

pesireland

Hey lads just go my access the the footie fourms.

What does everyone make of Dossena??, to me he looks no better than Riise, Arulieo or Insua.

Keane will come good though, its always tough making your Debut away from home on the first day of the season.

herbieflowers

It's too early to make a judgement on Dossena. I only saw him playing that friendly against Lazio. It may take some time for the new signings to settle in, it's usually the case.

Guy:Incognito

pesireland wrote: »

Keane will come good though, its always tough making your Debut away from home on the first day of the season.

Meh, personnaly debut means little in this cae. He played mdweek n Europe s that was his competitive debut. He's played in the PL for years.

pesireland

herbieflowers wrote: »

It's too early to make a judgement on Dossena. I only saw him playing that friendly against Lazio. It may take some time for the new signings to settle in, it's usually the case.

I will hold my judgement until xmas but i've seen him in a few friendlys and wednesday and yesterday and he looks a bag of nerves on the ball, poor in the air, poor tackler, and poor passing. I hope he improves soon so it won't be a waste of £8m

Stekelly wrote: »

Meh, personnaly debut means little in this cae. He played mdweek n Europe s that was his competitive debut. He's played in the PL for years.

liverpool in general didn't play well, and credit to sunderland for that, But keane and torres were starved of decent ball, Keane made a good chance for him selve just on half time had that went in we would be saying he was the savour not torres, its just torres one chance went in.

GuanYin

Keane and Torres looked like players who hadn't played together much, which isn't surprising because...erm.. they haven't played together much.

Maybe in time they will form an understanding but in the two games I've watched, they don't look tight as a partnership.

herbieflowers

Good strike partnerships rarely form instantaneously. Judging from their styles, I reckon they'll complement each other well (in time).

pesireland

herbieflowers wrote: »

Good strike partnerships rarely form instantaneously. Judging from their styles, I reckon they'll complement each other well (in time).

QIA my friend

GuanYin

herbieflowers wrote: »

Good strike partnerships rarely form instantaneously. Judging from their styles, I reckon they'll complement each other well (in time).

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I just think that Keane plays better with a dedicated striker rather than a player more similar to himself. I honestly think the success of their partnership will depend on how Torres adapts to Keane.

gixerfixer

pesireland wrote: »

Hey lads just go my access the the footie fourms.

What does everyone make of Dossena??, to me he looks no better than Riise, Arulieo or Insua.

Keane will come good though, its always tough making your Debut away from home on the first day of the season.

Far to early to make judgements on all the new signing.Wont stop some fools mind you.I remember skrtel made his debut for us and had a so so game and some "football experts " on here saying it's a duff buy from Rafa:rolleyes:.

Guy:Incognito

gixerfixer wrote: »

some "football experts "

Who's claiming to be a football expert on here? (I'm a given , but I mean among the rest opf you mortals:))

herbieflowers

GuanYin wrote: »

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I just think that Keane plays better with a dedicated striker rather than a player more similar to himself. I honestly think the success of their partnership will depend on how Torres adapts to Keane.

What I meant was, you rarley see a great partnership after two matches right at the start of a season - a time when players are generally rusty. But yeah, it might mean Torres having to become more of an out-and-out, he likes to pick the ball up and run and defenders, and he's pretty good at it, but they said the same thing about Tevez and Rooney being too similar.

PHB

Personally I think the solution is to drop Torres to his position he played for Atletico, a withdrawn striker, and then play Robbie at the front. I'm not sure Robbie will work as the withdrawn striker at this level for one simple reason, he's not a world dribbler. Unlike Gerrard, Rooney, Tevez, he doesn't make driving runs creating space with the ball. Torres however can do this.

Tusky

I dont think anyone is or would be foolish to write off Dossena or anyone else after only a handful of games. That doesn't mean you cant comment on what you see in games, so far what I have seen from him is poor. I'm not saying he wont improve, I'm not saying he was a bad signing.

In pre-season and in the 2 competitive games thus far he hasn't impressed me...apart from this (even though it didnt result in anything, I never seen Riise try anything like it!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZoqembZ-G8

PHB wrote: »

Personally I think the solution is to drop Torres to his position he played for Atletico, a withdrawn striker, and then play Robbie at the front. I'm not sure Robbie will work as the withdrawn striker at this level for one simple reason, he's not a world dribbler. Unlike Gerrard, Rooney, Tevez, he doesn't make driving runs creating space with the ball. Torres however can do this.

That would be idiotic. Torres has blossomed in the new CF position. The amount of goals he scored last season by making runs in behind defenders was fantastic. We should leave him exactly where he is. 33 goals last season and 1 goal in 1 game so far this season, no reason to play around with his position. Keane will just have to adapt.

gixerfixer

Stekelly wrote: »

Who's claiming to be a football expert on here? (I'm a given , but I mean among the rest opf you mortals:))

Fair enough. Yourself aside Rafa

gixerfixer

PHB wrote: »

Personally I think the solution is to drop Torres to his position he played for Atletico, a withdrawn striker, and then play Robbie at the front. I'm not sure Robbie will work as the withdrawn striker at this level for one simple reason, he's not a world dribbler. Unlike Gerrard, Rooney, Tevez, he doesn't make driving runs creating space with the ball. Torres however can do this.

Couldnt disagree with you more.Torres is magic in his present role.It would be madness to move him to a withdrawn striker role.Keane will adapt in time.

yayamark

If keane is meant to play as a "withdrawn striker" i pesonally dont think he'll flourish. Where keane is happy is in the box in the thick of it.

Torres and gerard seem to know what each other are doing i dont think keane and torres will ever have that partnership unless its a straight 4-4-2

spockety

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Leagues are won with these types of end results - i.e. getting the extra two points you don't deserve despite the poor performance.

Careful now, I have said that kind of thing before, but supporters of clubs who have won the league in the last few years will trounce on you and say that you can really only say that if your club actually HAVE won a league while scraping some games on your off days.

p.s. It was great to see Andy Gray debating the merits of Man Marking today after Martins slammed home for Newcastle against United after losing his marker... not.

Dub13

I am sure a lot of you will remember towards the end of last season Irishkop.com organized a few fundraisers for the Bob Paisley Memorial Fund,the biggest been the 5 a side football tournament I know a few of you lot played in.

Anyway on Saturday the new Bob Paisley Memorial was relieved to the public,Irishkop gets a mention for the 5 a side.So thanks again for all your support.








First part of the unveiling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8nAaUt5qFc

Second Part

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpie558bFrM

PHB

spockety wrote: »

p.s. It was great to see Andy Gray debating the merits of Man Marking today after Martins slammed home for Newcastle against United after losing his marker... not.

Who listens to Andy Gray in any seriousness anyway? What I found funny is that if we zonal marked, that corner would most certainly have been met by a decent defender.

That said, is there any data on amount of goals concedded from set pieces by each team? That'd solve the issue surely once and for all.

Mr Alan

sure its been said somewhere here already, but if Rafas latest comments are in relation to Barry, I think we'll have this as our prefered formation for the year...which i would find quite exciting.

----Alonso--Mascherano--Barry----

---

Keane

---

Gerrard

---

---

Torres

---

similar to wat Chelsea played at times today.
with options like Yossi,Kuyt,Babel,Ngog,Nemeth,Pacheco,Lucas,Plessis etc on the bench, i think that could really work for us.

pesireland

Tusky wrote: »

I dont think anyone is or would be foolish to write off Dossena or anyone else after only a handful of games. That doesn't mean you cant comment on what you see in games, so far what I have seen from him is poor. I'm not saying he wont improve, I'm not saying he was a bad signing.

In pre-season and in the 2 competitive games thus far he hasn't impressed me.


That would be idiotic. Torres has blossomed in the new CF position. The amount of goals he scored last season by making runs in behind defenders was fantastic. We should leave him exactly where he is. 33 goals last season and 1 goal in 1 game so far this season, no reason to play around with his position. Keane will just have to adapt.

Im sure no ones writing off dossena just yet but he doesn't look the most comfortable in possession tbh, And totally agree with the torres thing moving him out of position would be totally stupid imo and no need for it, torres strenghts is playing on the last mans shoulder and using his pace.

pesireland

i think ur strongest team is this.

reina
carragher--agger--skrtel--Dossena/Aruelio
Masc--alonso
Gerrard--Keane--Babel
Torres

thats a strong line up, gerrard on right or centre im not sure maybe i'm trying to accomodate keane

Mr Alan

the three behind torres could switch all through the match, it is quite a line up alright.

I defy anyone to compare our team now to the one Rafa inherited and tell me they arent worlds apart.

Tusky

Mr Alan wrote: »

----Alonso--Mascherano--Barry----

---

Keane

---

Gerrard

---

---

Torres

---

When I look at that I see a clump of central midfield players. I can just imagine it being a bit over crowed and messy in the middle. The reason it worked today/may work in the future for Chelsea is

a) because they have a quality wide man in Joe Cole

b) they have two top quality attacking full backs bombing up the line.

At the moment we have neither of the above. Our team is crying out for some creativity on the flanks, to spend 18m on Barry and play him in a team with Alonso, Mascherano & Gerrard just doesnt make sense to me.

We shall have to wait and see I suppose.

The more I think about it, Keane seems to be the solution to a problem we didnt have. Our strongest team last season was -

---

Masch--Alonso
Kuyt

---

Gerrard

---

Babel

---

Torres

First priority should have been to replace Kuyt as he is the weak link in that line up. After buying a Kuyt replacement, if there was enough money left to buy Keane &/or Barry, great! However it doesn't seem to be the case. We are now faced with either playing Keane on the right OR moving Gerrard across from a position where he scored 20 goals and got 20 assists from last season to play on the right. Hmm.

I think the smarter thing to do would have been to splash out on a Kuyt replacement and then buy a cheaper striker to replace Crouch. Someone young with potential & wouldnt mind sitting on the bench and learning from Torres.

Mr Alan

Barry is perfectly suited to that formation tusky from wat i've seen of him over the years.

Gerrard is as good as a "wide man" as Joe Cole.

And Bosingwa is ****e!

Tusky

Mr Alan wrote: »

Barry is perfectly suited to that formation tusky from wat i've seen of him over the years.

Gerrard is as good as a "wide man" as Joe Cole.

And Bosingwa is ****e!

But why bend over backwards trying to find a formation to fit 4 central midfielders into a team ? Dont put yourself in that position in the first place. As Ive said before, central midfield is our strongest position, why spend 18m on it when we are weak in other areas ? Doesnt make sense to me.

If you are going to sell Alonso and buy Barry fine, that makes sense. If we are keeping Alonso, spend the money elsewhere.

I disagree about Bosingwa. He had a poor euro 08 but hes certainly not ****.

Boggles

Tusky wrote: »

Doesnt make sense to me.

Doesn't make sense to the Livepool board either.

Mr Alan

Tusky wrote: »

But why bend over backwards trying to find a formation to fit 4 central midfielders into a team ? Dont put yourself in that position in the first place. As Ive said before, central midfield is our strongest position, why spend 18m on it when we are weak in other areas ? Doesnt make sense to me.

If you are going to sell Alonso and buy Barry fine, that makes sense. If we are keeping Alonso, spend the money elsewhere.

I disagree about Bosingwa. He had a poor euro 08 but hes certainly not ****.

Horses for courses.

In order for us to narrow the gap (which is not big, two wins against top 4 and a couple of wins against smaller clubs) Rafa has to use the money and resources available to him.

Now, for us to strengten our wide areas in an effort to compete with Utds we would need to spend probably 50m-60m on 2 players to play out wide. this quite simply, is not possible with our current financial situation.

Instead Rafa is aiming to improve wat we already have, as opposed to building something new altogether.

1)Barry-people are too hard on Alonsos form, but Barry has been far better than Alonso over the last 2 years, in a far inferior team. I really do think that this is undeniable. He can also play in a couple of positions (4-4-2,4-2-3-1,4-3-2-1) and is a leader and well as extremely consistant performer.

2)Keane-improving on the options for us up front with a proven premier league, very clever player who will score goals. someone who can play in a 4-4-2 on the rare occassions needed, or a couple of positions in the 4-2-3-1 formation.

Now, if we sign Barry on August 31st, we will be weaker in the winger department than Utd-i agree 100%. But we dont have to be stronger in every dept than them in order to beat them.

for example if we sign Barry, I would say;

Fullbacks united are stronger
centre halves we are stonger
wingers utd are stonger
central mid we are stronger
forwards toss of a coin

Boggles wrote: »

Doesn't make sense to the Livepool board either.

The same type of board who it didnt make sense to take Cantona before he went to Leeds? or the same board that thought 9m was too much for Alves?

Leave the footballing matters to Rafa, not some clown in a suit.