Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

mike65

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It is both of them, in reality.

If Rafa hadn't tried so hard to sell him last summer then he may have been happier to stay this summer. I think the actions of last summer are a big factor in him wanting to leave this summer.

Oh I agree but its all about presentation and spin. I'm sure Alonso would have been happy enough to stay but when Real came calling it was the handy get out.

spockety

rarnes1 wrote: »

ffs, that's almost as bad as Livertweet.

Livertweet... those guys who were insisting that Rafa was holding out for an official transfer request from Xabi Alonso...? Hrmmmmm..

Hobart

Boggles wrote: »

Can he not be told shove his transfer request up his hole?

Or does a club have to give it?

He can. Villa did it with Barry last year, but Liverpool won't, unless the offer from Spain is derisory.

Pity he's leaving, but I can't blame the chap, Rafa tried his best to get rid of him last year, and Xabi did the decent thing and showed him how wrong he was.

Good luck Xabi, thanks for all the work!!

whatawaster

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It is both of them, in reality.

If Rafa hadn't tried so hard to sell him last summer then he may have been happier to stay this summer. I think the actions of last summer are a big factor in him wanting to leave this summer.

Please tell me how Rafa “tried hard” to sell him last summer?
Did he do up a brochure for him? Drag him around Europe to trials with various clubs?
Or was he just willing to accept a fair price (around 18m) for an excellent but out of form player, which, in the end, no club matched.

Boggles

Dub13 wrote: »

He can be told he is not moving alright but I never agree with this is you get a good offer for a player,there is no point in keeping a player who does not want to be at your club.

If City came in with 40 million, does Alonso have a choice or does he have to go to them?

Mitch Connor

Cyrus wrote: »

nice bit of stirring there mitch, all of this has been explained to you before :rolleyes:

im sure plenty of united fans said the same about ronaldo

anyway if he wants to go let him go, however his timing sucks

It is not stirring - i don't think he is a merc.

Liverpool tried hard to sell him last summer, the reasons for that are not relevant. they didn't want him last summer and tried to get rid of him, but this summer he is a merc because he wants to leave after 5 years?

I'm sure plenty of fans did, more so last summer than this summer imo, where the transfer was handled much better. I wouldn't call Ronaldo a merc - he has always wanted to play for Madrid and has never hidden that fact. It is not like he (or Alonso) only want to play for Madrid for the money. If they were pushing for moves to City that would be another matter entirely.

I can understand United and Liverpool fans being upset over two such important players leaving but i think calling them mercs over it is incorrect. Alonso was shown last summer that he wasn't wanted. He ended up staying and was one of your best players last season - that is great professionalism imo. To call him a merc isn't right imo.

whatawaster

Boggles wrote: »

If City came in with 40 million, does Alonso have a choice or does he have to go to them?

No Liverpool can accept or reject any offers they see fit. They grant permission to Xabi to speak to whatever clubs they want him to speak to.

Dub13

Boggles wrote: »

If City came in with 40 million, does Alonso have a choice or does he have to go to them?

The club pick who he can talk to,remember a couple of years ago we matched the price for Gabriel Heinze but they would not do business with us.

spockety

Boggles wrote: »

If City came in with 40 million, does Alonso have a choice or does he have to go to them?

I'd say bugger all people here know the true ins and outs of it.. but to speculate wildly perhaps Alonso's agent/lawyer is clever enough to know to put in wording that makes it clear it is a request for a transfer to Real Madrid and only Real Madrid?

Also presumably Alonso would have to agree personal terms anyway. Or does a transfer request essentially mean that Liverpool can sell the last 3 years of his contract to whoever they want? Surely not.

mike65

I guess we should take Livertweet more seriously!

http://twitter.com/Livertweet

Did they kill him on the 20th?

Mitch Connor

spockety wrote: »

Livertweet... those guys who were insisting that Rafa was holding out for an official transfer request from Xabi Alonso...? Hrmmmmm..

They must have an inside track - no one could have predicted something like that.:D

If livertweet were on the money, on stuff like the Villa/Silva deal which is sealed according to them, do you not think even one paper would have picked up on it at this point? They are making this stuff known to the world, do you think not one journo has read about livertweet?

SlickRic

mercenary was the wrong word to use so i shouldn't have used it.

let's drop it from the discussion i reckon and discuss everything else.

again, apologies.

Boggles

Dub13 wrote: »

The club pick who he can talk to,remember a couple of years ago we matched the price for Gabriel Heinze but they would not do business with us.

Thats what I was thinking.

I have no doubt City are monitoring this and would not surprise me in the least if they tried to hijack the deal.

spockety

Mitch Connor wrote: »

They must have an inside track - no one could have predicted something like that.:D

I'm not suggesting everything they say is right, obviously they got the Villa/Silva thing wrong.

But there are very very few official transfer requests ever handed in by top players. I mean, did Ronaldo even hand one in? I doubt it!

This is a rare situation, so no I would say that it was not easy to predict.

super_furry

If he goes, he goes. Had a good final season after a dreadful one the year before, and has pretty much doubled the price Liverpool will get for him on the back of it. It was always more important to keep hold of Mascherano anyway.

Mitch Connor

spockety wrote: »

I'd say bugger all people here know the true ins and outs of it.. but to speculate wildly perhaps Alonso's agent/lawyer is clever enough to know to put in wording that makes it clear it is a request for a transfer to Real Madrid and only Real Madrid?

Also presumably Alonso would have to agree personal terms anyway. Or does a transfer request essentially mean that Liverpool can sell the last 3 years of his contract to whoever they want? Surely not.

A player can't be forced to sign for any club, and no player can force a club to accept an offer. Transfer request or not. A transfer request doesn't become a legally binding release fee clause. It is an acknowledgement that a player wants to leave, and will not receive any loyalty bonus they would otherwise have been due.

City could bid 100million for him, Liverpool could accept that, but Alonso could simply reject the move. Liverpool could reject the bid too, if they wanted to, and Alonso could do nothing about it because he doesn't have a a release fee clause, which the TR doesn't change.

Mitch Connor

spockety wrote: »

I'm not suggesting everything they say is right, obviously they got the Villa/Silva thing wrong.

But there are very very few official transfer requests ever handed in by top players. I mean, did Ronaldo even hand one in? I doubt it!

This is a rare situation, so no I would say that it was not easy to predict.

The Ronaldo one is an odd one imo.

He certainly told United he wanted to leave - whether that constitutes a TR is something I am not sure of. I would be very interested to know if he did receive a 'golden handshake' from United.

Also, I don't think it is that rare to be honest. I predicted he would put in a TR if it looked like the deal would not go through, so did a lot of mates.

spockety

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The Ronaldo one is an odd one imo.

Actually my point is that the Alonso one is an odd one. The Ronaldo one is the norm. A top player obviously wants to leave, and gets his wish, but without having to hand in an official transfer request.

I mean, off the top of my head other than Gareth Barry last year, I cannot remember any top players handing in transfer requests to get out of their club?

Mitch Connor

spockety wrote: »

Actually my point is that the Alonso one is an odd one. The Ronaldo one is the norm. A top player obviously wants to leave, and gets his wish, but without having to hand in an official transfer request.

I mean, off the top of my head other than Gareth Barry last year, I cannot remember any top players handing in transfer requests to get out of their club?

Apparently Berbatov did.

Heinze did.

Robbie Keane did

Gareth Barry did.

Didn't take me long to find them.... i'm sure there are more too.

Figo did, didn't he? I think Ronaldo (Brazilian) did too.

noodler

We got Keane the same way last year so it is hard to be too bitchy but I am very disappointed he has decided he wants to leave when we finally look like getting our act together in the league.

One thing though, this move has to be right for LFC above all. If Madrid offer anything less than 25m pounds then we should reject it plain and simple. They have been taking the piss out of Liverpool with some of their more recent transfer deals Owen/Nunez, Morientes and Arbeloa to be honest.

Not saying they knew Mori would suffer in England but they really dug their heels in over the price of a player they didn't intend to play.

Cyrus

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It is not stirring - i don't think he is a merc.

Liverpool tried hard to sell him last summer, the reasons for that are not relevant. they didn't want him last summer and tried to get rid of him, but this summer he is a merc because he wants to leave after 5 years?

no they didnt try hard to sell him

they were prepared to sell him for a price that wasnt matched.

Boggles

Cyrus wrote: »

no they didnt try hard to sell him

they were prepared to sell him for a price that wasnt matched.

Doesn't really matter how hard they tried to sell him, the point is they were willing to let him go. It obviously upset him

Alonso had no say in his future last year, this year it really is in his own hands.

slingerz

DeadSkin wrote: »

.................and/or Real player as part of the deal?

The allegeded £23 million plus Negrado with Sneidjer coming on loan would be a super deal for Liverpool. Make a profit as well as cover some squad areas. Can focus on bring in a replacement for Xabi in the form of Hamsik/Aqualini with perhaps Silva joining with the leftover cash?

SlickRic

slingerz wrote: »

The allegeded £23 million plus Negrado with Sneidjer coming on loan would be a super deal for Liverpool. Make a profit as well as cover some squad areas. Can focus on bring in a replacement for Xabi in the form of Hamsik/Aqualini with perhaps Silva joining with the leftover cash?

i like this kind of thinking.

Best of luck to him, he's been a great player for us and it's sad to see him go.

We are however going to get fantastic money for him and I'm sure this will be spent on a couple of decent players.

Rafa has probably known for a while this was going to happen and hopefully has players lined up already.

And as for Pool fans giving him grief for leaving, cop the fcuk on.
He's just given us his best season after almost being shown the door last summer and will make us an extra £10m+ in the process.

And he will receive a fantastic welcome should he ever play at Anfield again with Madrid or anyone else.

dobsdave

Boggles wrote: »

Doesn't really matter how hard they tried to sell him, the point is they were willing to let him go. It obviously upset him

Alonso had no say in his future last year, this year it really is in his own hands.

Alonso didn't have to accept any transfer last season.
If Liverpool accept an offer from whoever this season, then it will be in Alonso hands, but not untill then.

Dublin_Gunner

slingerz wrote: »

The allegeded £23 million plus Negrado with Sneidjer coming on loan would be a super deal for Liverpool. Make a profit as well as cover some squad areas. Can focus on bring in a replacement for Xabi in the form of Hamsik/Aqualini with perhaps Silva joining with the leftover cash?

I'd personally like to see Aquilani come. I think he's at least one on the list who IMO has the strength to compete in the EPL.

Sneijder on loan would be decent also - which an option to buy for a vastly deflated sum at the end of the season if possible.

bluefinger

this might be a bit conspiratorial but part of me thinks that the Arbelo deal might have been a way of sweetening the alonso deal, no?

Hephaestus

slingerz wrote: »

The allegeded £23 million plus Negrado with Sneidjer coming on loan would be a super deal for Liverpool.

How good is Negrado?

I've not seen him play to know if he is possibly a good signing!

stevoslice

super_furry wrote: »

Had a good final season after a dreadful one the year before

again, alonso broke his foot TWICE that season, dreadful for alonso, unfortunate for liverpool, but not something that should be held against him, surely...

Hephaestus

Liverpool midfielder Xabi Alonso has edged closer to Real Madrid after handing in a transfer request at Anfield, according to reports.

Hephaestus

Hephaestus wrote: »

Liverpool midfielder Xabi Alonso has edged closer to Real Madrid after handing in a transfer request at Anfield, according to reports.

Serious???

Kingdom

rarnes1 wrote: »

Serious???

Lol!

5starpool

Just saw this on the guardian website.

I'm depressed now, but not surprised. Hopefully we can get it sorted out soon and get in adecent replacement.

daithijjj

5starpool wrote: »

Just saw this on the guardian website.

I'm depressed now, but not surprised. Hopefully we can get it sorted out soon and get in adecent replacement.

I dont know whats more depressing, alonso leaving or the thought of cattermole coming in. Jesus wept.

Hope benitez has plans for a creative midfielder at least.

SlickRic

the more i think about it, it's not the disaster i first thought it was...as long as rafa has had it clear in his head for a while that xabi might go and has a replacement lined up.

don't get me wrong, it's a huge blow. but if the money is used wisely, alongside keeping Masch, we could stay as strong as before; even, dare i say it, improve given the fact other positions may be improved upon with the cash.

purple_hatstand

This should have been sorted a month ago with any potential replacements and/or new signings included in the pre-season. The timing sucks.

PiE

We need to find a player who can get 10 opposition players red-carded over a season.

That skill doesn't come cheap.

daithijjj

purple_hatstand wrote: »

This should have been sorted a month ago with any potential replacements and/or new signings included in the pre-season. The timing sucks.

Not really, there was a sell on clause taking a cut of any fee if alonso was sold before the 19th of last month i believe.

purple_hatstand

daithijjj wrote: »

Not really, there was a sell on clause taking a cut of any fee if alonso was sold before the 19th of last month i believe.

forgot about that...

NukaCola

It seems strange.
Would Rafa really not let him go and demanded a transfer request.
In doing so wouldn't that give Real Madrid an advantage? (i know we dont have to sell etc etc but realistically...)
Why hand in a transfer request now? Why not weeks ago?

Anyway hope we get a really good deal, they splashed the cash on others i hope they do the same here, it seems strange that they reportedly offer 25 and not go the extra 5mil to meet our asking price? Homegrown spanish player as well as the praise heaped on him by the real madrid president.

Alonso has been excellent for Liverpool and even when he goes the money will be important to build the squad. Top Pro.

I cant wish him luck and success because i really dislike Madrid and hope Barca stitch them up this year again.....in some ways i'm a bitter bitter man

whatawaster

daithijjj wrote: »

I dont know whats more depressing, alonso leaving or the thought of cattermole coming in. Jesus wept.

Hope benitez has plans for a creative midfielder at least.

Cattermole is no replacement for Alonso, but he would be a good understudy for Alonso. His price is creeping too high for my liking but i would like to see us use the money we get from Alonso's sale to buy a direct, albeit younger replacement (15m or so) and a second choice DM (someone like Cattermole would be good in this role) for around 5m or so ideally
That would leave us with plenty of strength in depth in midfield with Masch and Lucas already there.
We'd still have money left to put towards an AM too

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

the more i think about it, it's not the disaster i first thought it was...as long as rafa has had it clear in his head for a while that xabi might go and has a replacement lined up.

don't get me wrong, it's a huge blow. but if the money is used wisely, alongside keeping Masch, we could stay as strong as before; even, dare i say it, improve given the fact other positions may be improved upon with the cash.

It's far from a disaster, it's a big blow alright but united have suffered a bigger one imo losing Ronaldo.

Losing Mash as well would be a disater alright, hopefully it doesn't come to that.

The Recliner

PiE wrote: »

We need to find a player who can get 10 opposition players red-carded over a season.

That skill doesn't come cheap.

And someone who will go for goal from the halfway line at any opportunity, used to love seeing him try that

Dublin_Gunner

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

Why hand in a transfer request now? Why not weeks ago?

Probably because there was an agreement made between himself and Benitez, that if he wishes to go, he's to do it formally, and hand in a request. Simples.

This relinquishes any blame for the move on the club, and puts the transfer firmly in the hands of the player.

Plus, officially, the fans will know that he went, and was let go, because he wanted to. No sense hanging on to a player who doesn't want to play for you anymore.

Its a loss, but not as big as most would lead you to believe IMO. He's replaceable, maybe not with a player of the same calibre or style, but certainly not a loss that would be detriment to any title challenge.

I think if anything, Liverpool proved last season that they can still do the job without some of our top players.

purple_hatstand

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Probably because there was an agreement made between himself and Benitez, that if he wishes to go, he's to do it formally, and hand in a request. Simples.

This relinquishes any blame for the move on the club, and puts the transfer firmly in the hands of the player.

Plus, officially, the fans will know that he went, and was let go, because he wanted to. No sense hanging on to a player who doesn't want to play for you anymore.

Its a loss, but not as big as most would lead you to believe IMO. He's replaceable, maybe not with a player of the same calibre or style, but certainly not a loss that would be detriment to any title challenge.

I think if anything, Liverpool proved last season that they can still do the job without some of our top players.

I'm not sure I agree with this. The understanding between Alonso & Masch (which naturally extends to other First XI players) was forged over a prolonged period and that CM partnership in particular was fundamental to our challenge last season.

Replacing him with an equally talented player is one thing, recreating that level of understanding on the pitch is another which is why IMO, it's a shame a replacement is not even going to get a full pre-season...

I hope I'm wrong...

5starpool

I think the main thing about the transfer request was probably the 'loyalty' bonus. This does not now hav eto be paind to Xabi, so will bring down the asking price a bit.

Also, according to rumour (not a great source though), officials are in Rome trying to tie up a deal for Aquilani.

Source: http://www.goal.com/en/news/11/transfer-zone/2009/07/30/1412289/liverpool-in-rome-to-close-alberto-aquilani-deal-report

Kingdom

If the upshot of this summer is:

Out :
Xabi Alonso
Alvaro Arbeloa

In:
Glen Johnson
Alberto Aquillani/Tomas Hamsik
David Silva
Alfredo Negredo
Wesley Sneijder (loan)
Philip Degen (for real this time:P)

for an outlay of perhaps 15m

then you'd have to be happy.

5starpool

Kingdom wrote: »

If the upshot of this summer is:

Out :
Xabi Alonso
Alvaro Arbeloa

In:
Glen Johnson
Alberto Aquillani/Tomas Hamsik
David Silva
Alfredo Negredo
Wesley Sneijder (loan)
Philip Degen (for real this time:P)

for an outlay of perhaps 15m

then you'd have to be happy.

Apart from the fact that I am not totally convinced by you figures (even though it is closer than I first thought), I doubt we would get Sneijder on loan as part of the deal with RM. I think personally, that it will just a straight cash deal, and that a lot of that will be spent on a replacement for Xabi, and maybe there might be money left over for Silva if he is willing to come to Anfield.

slingerz

Kingdom wrote: »

If the upshot of this summer is:

Out :
Xabi Alonso
Alvaro Arbeloa

In:
Glen Johnson
Alberto Aquillani/Tomas Hamsik
David Silva
Alfredo Negredo
Wesley Sneijder (loan)
Philip Degen (for real this time:P)

for an outlay of perhaps 15m

then you'd have to be happy.

Yep I'd agree with you on this. Pehaps Ashley Young instead of David Silva but thats nitpicking.

I think squad players like Lee Cattermole, Steven Warnock(to replace Dossena) and Michael Turner/David Wheater would be important to Liverpool to maintain a title challenge and meet the homegrown player regulations for the CL