Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

herbieflowers

sigh, joke. Internet football fans are a sensitive lot!

Hero Of College

ajeffares wrote: »

+1
I had had my eye on him for a while before liverpool got him and I think rafa should give him a full match more often, give him more exp

Rafa was mindful of his trip back from China, prolly didn't want to jade the kid.

Besides, Dossena+Benny was working in the early part of the game. Nothing wrong until the clash with Al-Adi-I-Slapped-Mash-And-He-Slapped-Me-But-Got-Caught-Dare.

Hero Of College

herbieflowers wrote: »

how do ye think Pool will do this season? Do you think they're a couple of players short of mounting a challenge? Do they need more width?

Don't need more width, per se.

Width is the sort of thing you need for split moments in any one game, as opposed to something you need every minute of every game of the season.

Its more a question of generating width, in an instant, and using it, than having width all the time.

Thats how I see it. We need someone who can GET WIDE, beat his man, and get quality ball in. Then go back to the midfield. Like Babel. If he can get wide, get the ball in, that will do.

That doesn't mean we should go out and buy a guy who can't tackle, can't shoot, can't head but who can get up and down the line fast.

Benitez already approached Quaresma, and, to my understanding, the little Portuguezer came across as being unwilling to change his game in any respect for Benitez. End of conversation.

eZe^

Riera wasn't excellent all season at Espanyol. He was excellent up until christmas, where Espanyol were playing excellent attacking football and found themselves competing for a CL spot. Then, as usual with the likes of Espanyol and Atletico, they capitulated due to injuries to Tamudo and Jarque. If it wasn't for their excellent start, they'd have been in a relegation dog fight, in this half of the season, Riera was quite simply shi*e. He is exactly like Espanyol, incredibly inconsistent, one day he is amazing, next day he is casper. He's a risk, and it could pay off.

~Rebel~

eZe^ wrote: »

He is exactly like Espanyol, incredibly inconsistent, one day he is amazing, next day he is casper. He's a risk, and it could pay off.

Agreed, at the 16mill sterling that was being mooted, he sounded very expensive, but at 11mill euro's it sounds much better. Think it would be a great move specifically as we also have Babel there. Between the 2 of them id be quite happy with that wide/attacking left position. 2 nicely different options and whichever doesn't start, would make our bench look more dangerous.

Chardee MacDennis

Hero Of College wrote: »

Thats how I see it. We need someone who can GET WIDE, beat his man, and get quality ball in. Then go back to the midfield. Like Babel. If he can get wide, get the ball in, that will do.

how many times have you sen Babel hit the byline and get a ball in, very very rarely - ha may get to the corner of the box and the byline and drag a ball back but thats about it. he doesnt get the real width we need.

in the current setup we need someone who is gonna be running the line for the majority of the game giving space to the boys in the centre while making an option down the wing - that is not and never will be Babel and if you think it will you are seriously deluded.

PHB has said it time and time again and he is completely right we have scored when we have had width on the pitch because it makes room for Torres, Gerrard and Keane to do their stuff. you even said it yourself that Torres scored because he didnt get closed down quick enough, ask yourself why he wasnt closed down when he had been for the previous 80+ mins, because Auriello and El Zhar were dragging the full backs out of the centre and therefore not able to commit more men to close down in the centre.

its very simple. if we pick up a true wide man, i think the final peice of the puzzle is in place (not neccesarily to win the league but to play to our potential) and we will see the team playing to their best and not tripping up over one another in a horribly confined playing space.

eZe^

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Agreed, at the 16mill sterling that was being mooted, he sounded very expensive, but at 11mill euro's it sounds much better. Think it would be a great move specifically as we also have Babel there. Between the 2 of them id be quite happy with that wide/attacking left position. 2 nicely different options and whichever doesn't start, would make our bench look more dangerous.

Well, the good thing about Riera is that he is a winger, he can stay on the touch lines and cross balls in, or he can cut inside and take on a shot. He isn't the new fad of playing the SS on the wing. He is also tall, so he isn't bad in the air either. He will give natural width to Liverpool, something your current fullbacks and existing wingers seem to be failing miserably at achieving.

Hero Of College

BastardPrince wrote: »

how many times have you sen Babel hit the byline and get a ball in, very very rarely - ha may get to the corner of the box and the byline and drag a ball back but thats about it. he doesnt get the real width we need.

in the current setup we need someone who is gonna be running the line for the majority of the game giving space to the boys in the centre while making an option down the wing - that is not and never will be Babel and if you think it will you are seriously deluded.

PHB has said it time and time again and he is completely right we have scored when we have had width on the pitch because it makes room for Torres, Gerrard and Keane to do their stuff. you even said it yourself that Torres scored because he didnt get closed down quick enough, ask yourself why he wasnt closed down when he had been for the previous 80+ mins, because Auriello and El Zhar were dragging the full backs out of the centre and therefore not able to commit more men to close down in the centre.

its very simple. if we pick up a true wide man, i think the final peice of the puzzle is in place (not neccesarily to win the league but to play to our potential) and we will see the team playing to their best and not tripping up over one another in a horribly confined playing space.

two things

1. I said, in regards to babel...."IF"......as it happens he has been TRYING to get to the byeline a bit.

2. There is waaaaay more to "width" than men getting to the byline. Cristiano Ronaldo is "just a winger" according to the media men. Last time I saw him get to the byeline and cross was....never.

Hero Of College

eZe^ wrote: »

Well, the good thing about Riera is that he is a winger, he can stay on the touch lines and cross balls in, or he can cut inside and take on a shot. He isn't the new fad of playing the SS on the wing. He is also tall, so he isn't bad in the air either. He will give natural width to Liverpool, something your current fullbacks and existing wingers seem to be failing miserably at achieving.

My understanding is that Everton are far closer to signing him.

~Rebel~

Hero Of College wrote: »

My understanding is that Everton are far closer to signing him.

all it takes to completely swing something like that is a matched bid.

Chardee MacDennis

Hero Of College wrote: »

two things

1. I said, in regards to babel...."IF"......as it happens he has been TRYING to get to the byeline a bit.

2. There is waaaaay more to "width" than men getting to the byline. Cristiano Ronaldo is "just a winger" according to the media men. Last time I saw him get to the byeline and cross was....never.

1. Trying? when exactly? with the 4/5 touches he had yesterday?

2. no but staying out wide is where we get width which Babel, benayoun, keane and gerrard dont do. Neither does Ronaldo, who isnt really a winger he is a forward, a winger doesnt get 3 assists. Young or Bentley are wingers.

herbieflowers

...though Bentley was playing off Bent yesterday (pedant's corner)

Chardee MacDennis

herbieflowers wrote: »

...though Bentley was playing off Bent yesterday (pedant's corner)

yes but if you tell gerarrd or babel to stay wide, they dont - they naturally drift inside. if you tell young or bentley to hug the touchlines then they stay out there on attacks and come inside less.

Hero Of College

BastardPrince wrote: »

1. Trying? when exactly? with the 4/5 touches he had yesterday?

2. no but staying out wide is where we get width which Babel, benayoun, keane and gerrard dont do. Neither does Ronaldo, who isnt really a winger he is a forward, a winger doesnt get 3 assists. Young or Bentley are wingers.

Come on..........you CANNOT go on just yesterday. As it happens, Babel is a striker, IMO.

I think Liverpools width is coming from Dossena and Degen, when he is fit.

Dossena has been providing some good balls in.

Hero Of College

herbieflowers wrote: »

...though Bentley was playing off Bent yesterday (pedant's corner)

Nobody at Spurs did any playing yesterday. Except Sunderland.:p

Honestly.....how Ramos gets away with it. If he was Benitez, chop-chop.

Chardee MacDennis

Hero Of College wrote: »

Come on..........you CANNOT go on just yesterday. As it happens, Babel is a striker, IMO.

what? i was saying you are the one going on yesterday, Babel rarely goes wide. You said he has been trying recently and i asked when considering yesterday was his first game fro us since the end of last season.

Like Babel. If he can get wide, get the ball in, that will do.

Babel is a striker. I am well aware of that, if you are too why are you talking about him getting wide?

we need genuine width plain and simple.

eZe^

I always thought Babel was more effective as a winger, from his Ajax days, he was never a consistent goal scorer, he was dangerous on the wing though. He seems to cut inside, take too many touches at Liverpool though, maybe he just needs a little more time to adapt to the EPL.

~Rebel~

eZe^ wrote: »

I always thought Babel was more effective as a winger, from his Ajax days, he was never a consistent goal scorer, he was dangerous on the wing though. He seems to cut inside, take too many touches at Liverpool though, maybe he just needs a little more time to adapt to the EPL.

He's most effective in the wing forward role he's being used in. It suits his game perfectly, using his pace out wide and coming inside onto his right foot. In the future i could see him developing into the center forward role, but not yet imo.

Karmafaerie

BastardPrince wrote: »

PHB has said it time and time again and he is completely right we have scored when we have had width on the pitch because it makes room for Torres, Gerrard and Keane to do their stuff. you even said it yourself that Torres scored because he didnt get closed down quick enough, ask yourself why he wasnt closed down when he had been for the previous 80+ mins, because Auriello and El Zhar were dragging the full backs out of the centre and therefore not able to commit more men to close down in the centre.

its very simple. if we pick up a true wide man, i think the final peice of the puzzle is in place (not neccesarily to win the league but to play to our potential) and we will see the team playing to their best and not tripping up over one another in a horribly confined playing space.

Okay, I've heard this so much in the last few days from PHB and now others are mimicking it.

Let me ask you something.
(I'd love an answer from you too PHB).

If we're only scoring when we bring "width" on, please explain last season.
All the same wide players that we've deployed so far.
Kuyt/Babel/Benni/Arbeloa/Finnan/Aurelio/Voronin with the exception of the departed Riise/Kewel and incoming Doss/Degen.
Yet last season, we scored more goals than any other English team in all comps!

With no "width"!

Did El Zhar get loads of games last season that nobody noticed?!

No.

We just don't play with "wide" players, as some would call them.

We've had a stuttering start to the season, but as long as we keep winning, the confidence will build and build, and that's when things will start to click.

The reason that things looked better after Zhar came on, isn't that the opposition couldn't handle all the magical width, it's cause Liverpool changed their formation.
The defenders were used to one thing, and then couldn't adapt when late in the game things changed.

It's called changing the point of attack, and its managing 101.

Every team does it.
You lock the defenders into one mindset, and then switch everything, and see if they can cope.

Sunderland and Middlesborough couldn't.

Result. 6 points.


But leaving all that aside, lets go back to my first point.
If we can't score without width, how come we scored so many without width last year?
Or has football change so much in the last few months.

God, this really is ridiculous.
Every season people invent a new stick to beat Rafa with.

Karmafaerie

eZe^ wrote: »

I always thought Babel was more effective as a winger, from his Ajax days, he was never a consistent goal scorer, he was dangerous on the wing though. He seems to cut inside, take too many touches at Liverpool though, maybe he just needs a little more time to adapt to the EPL.

I really do think that he has all the neccesary skills to make a truely world class forward.

I've followed most of his carrer, as I'm a closet Ajax fan.
What most people here don't understand is how much most Ajax fans rated him.
It's very rare that an 18-19 year old has such a following, with banners in the crowd every match and such.

He needs a few years to properly learn his game, and I think he'll be world class.

For me, all the best strikers in the world have two things in common.

Firstly, they all have supreme confidence and faith in their own abilities.
Nobody can argue that Ryan doesn't have that.

Secondly, they don't fit into a mold.
There was nobody like Henry before him.
No Pele, Maradona, Ronaldo (clasic), Ibrahimovic, Bergkamp, Van Basten, etc.


They play their way, and then others try and emulate.
I know that Babel gets labled as the next Henry a lot, but I see a different player.
One that'll be IMHO, someone special in a few years.

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Secondly, they don't fit into a mold.
There was nobody like Henry before him.
No Pele, Maradona, Ronaldo (clasic), Ibrahimovic, Bergkamp, Van Basten, etc.

It's borderline blasphemy to mention Babel in the same post as all those players.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

They play their way, and then others try and emulate.
I know that Babel gets labled as the next Henry a lot, but I see a different player.
One that'll be IMHO, someone special in a few years.

Wasn't it Babel himself that said he would be the next Henry?

Where are you getting the optimism for his potential for being the next big thing, he has played 50 games for Livepool already, I just don't see it.

~Rebel~

Boggles wrote: »

It's borderline blasphemy to mention Babel in the same post as all those players.



Wasn't it Babel himself that said he would be the next Henry?

Where are you getting the optimism for his potential for being the next big thing, he has played 50 games for Livepool already, I just don't see it.

I think perhaps your not looking very hard.

To even just take his last major act of last season, coming on in place of Fernando Torres when we were desperate for a goal in extra time against Chelsea in the Champions League final. Occasions dont come much bigger, but he stood up and produced some magic. He did exactly the same against Arsenal in the quarter final when we looked in real trouble, earning us a penalty with some brilliant play, and then securing the win with a great touch, great show of strength, speed, power and finishing.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

It's borderline blasphemy to mention Babel in the same post as all those players.

If you say so Boggles.

Boggles wrote:

Wasn't it Babel himself that said he would be the next Henry?

Nope. It was first Van Basten, then Daglish, then Andy Grey, then George Boatang.

Babel responded to all that saying that it was an honour to be asosciated with such a player, that he'd always been a fan of Henry, that he was disapointed that Henry left the same season he came, that he saw some similarities in himself to Henry, and that he thought if he worked hard he could be as succesful.
This was printed under the heading of "Babel: I'm The Next Henry"

Boggles wrote:

Where are you getting the optimism for his potential for being the next big thing, he has played 50 games for Livepool already, I just don't see it.

I'm getting it from three years of watching him week in, week out.
From all the thousands of Ajax fans who used to chant his name, from the reports from all of his coaches and players he's played with, and from the two eyes I was born with.

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I'm getting it from three years of watching him week in, week out.
From all the thousands of Ajax fans who used to chant his name, from the reports from all of his coaches and players he's played with, and from the two eyes I was born with.

Well like you said you are biased because you are a long time fan, unfortunately I don't watch the Eredivisie every week (What channel is it on by the way?).

I can only make my mind up on what I have seen of him, mostly with Liverpool, he has never overly impressed me. If you could point out a game which he was outstanding by all means do, I will certainly study it?

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

Well like you said you are biased because you are a long time fan, unfortunately I don't watch the Eredivisie every week (What channel is it on by the way?).

I used to live in Holland.
Nice try though.
And if you really are interested, it's now on Setanta, although for the last few years I've used a magical invention called the internet.

Boggles wrote:

I can only make my mind up on what I have seen of him, mostly with Liverpool, he has never overly impressed me. If you could point out a game which he was outstanding by all means do, I will certainly study it?

Well if you're not impressed by what you've seen, then all I can say is that you're in for an amazing surprise.;)

We can argue till the cows come home, lets just leave it to Babel to show you on the pitch shall we?

Boggles

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Well if you're not impressed by what you've seen, then all I can say is that you're in for an amazing surprise.;)

We can argue till the cows come home, lets just leave it to Babel to show you on the pitch shall we?

That would be best I think, providing he gets picked to start I suppose.

Melion

Boggles. Didn't you embarass yourself enough the other night? Slating all of us for not watching Degen as much as you but throwing in a sly dig(what channel is that on btw) at someone who has lived in Holland and seen more of Babel than any of us.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

That would be best I think, providing he gets picked to start I suppose.

Well Rafa's said that he will be.
He said that this'll be a big season for Ryan, and that he's going to answer a lot of questions or something like that.
Hopefully you'll get more of a chance to see what I can.

Karmafaerie

Melion wrote: »

Boggles. Didn't you embarass yourself enough the other night? Slating all of us for not watching Degen as much as you but throwing in a sly dig(what channel is that on btw) at someone who has lived in Holland and seen more of Babel than any of us.

Well in fairness he was hardly gonna know that.;)

~Rebel~

Melion wrote: »

Boggles. Didn't you embarass yourself enough the other night? Slating all of us for not watching Degen as much as you but throwing in a sly dig(what channel is that on btw) at someone who has lived in Holland and seen more of Babel than any of us.

to be fair i dont think the Degen person was boggles, that person was a pool fan iirc

The Rooster

~Rebel~ wrote: »

to be fair i dont think the Degen person was boggles, that person was a pool fan iirc

Yeah, the Boggles gem was:
"If Arbeloa was playing on the left, and Messi was playing on the right, how could Arbeloa have been marking Messi??"

zAbbo

From this mornings rags

Espanyol have accepted a £12m offer from Everton for winger Albert Riera, but the player's preferred move is to Liverpool. (Guardian)

Middlesbrough will resist any offers - thought to be about £14m - from Liverpool for winger Stewart Downing. (Daily Mail)

Boggles

Melion wrote: »

Boggles. Didn't you embarass yourself enough the other night? Slating all of us for not watching Degen as much as you but throwing in a sly dig(what channel is that on btw) at someone who has lived in Holland and seen more of Babel than any of us.

What??

Your parnoia is kicking in again, it was a genuine question. But the only time you seem to contribute to the forum is to have a dig at me, this time over Degen, a player I have never mentioned as far as I am aware of. Keep up the sterling work. :rolleyes:

The Rooster wrote: »

Yeah, the Boggles gem was:
"If Arbeloa was playing on the left, and Messi was playing on the right, how could Arbeloa have been marking Messi??"

Yeah well done thats exactly what I said. :rolleyes:

If it wasn't for me some of ye wouldn't have anything to say.

Melion

Boggles wrote: »

What??

Your parnoia is kicking in again, it was a genuine question. But the only time you seem to contribute to the forum is to have a dig at me, this time over Degen, a player I have never mentioned as far as I am aware of. Keep up the sterling work. :rolleyes:

My apologies, i got you mixed up with someone else.

redspider

That was a 'saving' win by Liverpool over the w/e. Liverpool left it late in a game where they were the better team, with 16 attempts on goal to Boro's 7.

Again, a 4-4-2 formation, although midfield at times was a diamond with Gerrard at the most forward apex:

---

Reina

---

Arbeloa - Carra - Skrtel - Dossena
Kuyt - Alonso - Gerrard - Benayoun

---

Keane ---- Torres

---

Performances once again by the full-backs that are not at the standard that we need. Combined with the lack of linking up with the wide midfield players, this left us short on cutting edge attacks. Alonso did well I thought but is not a player that can hold in front of the defence on his own when midfield is in diamond shape. Masch can do that but is less good then creatively going forward. Once he returns there will be some difficult choices for Rafa in terms of personnel and changes. Masch is also likely to be 'rusty' after his beijing exertions.

Robbie tried hard again but things aren't going as he would have hoped. Himself and Torres got a few link ups, but this pairing will need further improvement if it is going to benefit us long-term. Liverpool should be putting away teams of Middlesboro's ilk with easy wins or at least by creating many chances. That we didnt and it took wonder stikes by Gerrard and a foray by Carragher is indicative that things are not where we they should be.

Babel came on but didnt do a hell of a lot. Perhaps he has Olympic blues or was still semi-jet-lagged. It was a fine stike by Mido for their goal. And equally a fine finish by Stevie for the winner at the death. Himself, Carra and Torres are a solid backbone on this team. Skrtel also played well but Reina did have a moment which required Carra to bail us out. We just need better quality players in other positions. The flank positions are clearly a problem in midfield, and now the flanks at the back are a problem as well which is disconcerting. These areas are where Rafa has brought in the most players over the years and we still havent got the correct result that we need.

A big game on Wed beckons .... fingers crossed we get a goal, and they dont. Panic would likely lead this team to a disaster, a disaster whilst not probable, is still possible. The team selection for the CL match on Wed will be interesting.

Redspider

monkey9

I'm actually slightly worried about Wednesday. This could be very very dodgy, like an undercooked chicken from a dirty looking chinese takeaway!!

Boggles

monkey9 wrote: »

I'm actually slightly worried about Wednesday. This could be very very dodgy, like an undercooked chicken from a dirty looking chinese takeaway!!

Liverpool should come through, it will be cagey thou. Stanard Liege looked streets ahead of both Boro and Sunderland. Pressure on Liverpool thou especially if Liege score.

redspider

By the way, its common how some match statistics can be misleading. Robbie was awarded with an assist for Gerrard's goal:

Assist (pass) by Robbie Keane (Liverpool) from centre of penalty area. Goal by Steven Gerrard (Liverpool) curled right-footed (top-right of goal) from centre of penalty area (18 yards).

Of course, what happened in real life was that a long ball came in, went over the defenders head, Robbie mis-contolled the ball in the box as the ball hit him and then rolled towards Stevie who cracked it home. It was completely unintentional by Robbie, an inadvertent "assist" if ever there was one.

Gelio

Boggles wrote: »

Liverpool should come through

Fingers crossed

Malice

zAbbo wrote: »

From this mornings rags

Espanyol have accepted a £12m offer from Everton for winger Albert Riera, but the player's preferred move is to Liverpool. (Guardian)

Middlesbrough will resist any offers - thought to be about £14m - from Liverpool for winger Stewart Downing. (Daily Mail)

The Reira transfer saga reminds me a bit of the Sissoko transfer. He was all set to leave Valencia for Everton and then all of a sudden Rafa got wind of it and put in a bid.

redspider wrote: »

By the way, its common how some match statistics can be misleading. Robbie was awarded with an assist for Gerrard's goal:

Does Carragher get an assist for the own goal?

DeadSkin

monkey9 wrote: »

I'm actually slightly worried about Wednesday. This could be very very dodgy, like an undercooked chicken from a dirty looking chinese takeaway!!

Nah.
Fair f*cks to Liege in the first leg, they were at home and they came at Liverpool from the start. Liverpool were asleep.
Fully expect a comfortable enough win on Wednesday night at Anfield.
Is it on the box?

lpool2k05

DeadSkin wrote: »

Nah.
Fair f*cks to Liege in the first leg, they were at home and they came at Liverpool from the start. Liverpool were asleep.
Fully expect a comfortable enough win on Wednesday night at Anfield.
Is it on the box?

UTV 8pm

monkey9

DeadSkin wrote: »

Nah.
Fair f*cks to Liege in the first leg, they were at home and they came at Liverpool from the start. Liverpool were asleep.
Fully expect a comfortable enough win on Wednesday night at Anfield.
Is it on the box?

I think rte are showing it as well.

My worry is more to do with Liverpool's laborious start. They'll need to up their game a bit for Wednesday. The 1st leg was always going to be tough enough cos Liege, i think, have only lost about one match at home in two years and that defeat even was only after they'd already secured the title.
A score draw will do them. I do expect us to go through, but it could be nervy.

mike65

Masch won't start if you can belive RTE (and I do in this case)

Mike.

copacetic

is on RTE also.

Malice

If Liverpool get an early goal on Wednesday night they will be fine. If they don't then players could start getting nervous.

zAbbo

Even worse if Liege get a goal, they've one or two good players, but we should dispose of them by 2 goals.

Down the years, the amount of teams who buckle at Anfield on European nights is unreal.

copacetic

malice_ wrote: »

If Liverpool get an early goal on Wednesday night they will be fine. If they don't then players could start getting nervous.

the players won't be the only people who are nervous. I'm not feeling too good about it and it is 2 days away.

DeadSkin

Cheers lads, RTE it is so!!!

Ah c'mon lads, what's with the negative vibes :pac:

zAbbo wrote: »

Down the years, the amount of teams who buckle at Anfield on European nights is unreal.

Exactly

Malice

zAbbo wrote: »

Even worse if Liege get a goal, they've one or two good players, but we should dispose of them by 2 goals.

Down the years, the amount of teams who buckle at Anfield on European nights is unreal.

That's true but our record in the Champions League qualifiers isn't that great. Remember Graz AK beat us 1:0 at home in the second leg in 2004/2005 and Maccabi Haifa gave us a scare in the second leg in 2005/2006 (drew 1:1 in the end). I know we won both of those ties over the two legs but the point is there wasn't much room for screw-ups!

DeadSkin wrote: »

Ah c'mon lads, what's with the negative vibes :pac:

True! Come On You Reds!