Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

~Rebel~

slingerz wrote: »

Pennant is a better option than Kuyt on the right. He's a natural right winger where Kuyt is not he'd offer better quality ball to the forwards

Kuyt makes a much bigger impact in big games, particularly big european games. Also Kuyt is quite a decent crosser of the ball.

~Rebel~

Masch booked in the argentina game so will miss the midweek game, back to Melwood early. No bad thing really with ManUtd coming up

herbieflowers

hehe, Tevez sent off too...fishy

~Rebel~

herbieflowers wrote: »

hehe, Tevez sent off too...fishy

heh, its like Lucas and Anderson in the olympics all over again!

mike65

Benny scored for Israel and Babel set up Huntelaaaaaaar with a left sided cross in thier freindly with Australia (Kewell scored for them).

Mike

missingtime

It always worries me that liverpool players score when they dont play for liverpool

mike65

Benayoun would have been playing in the centre just off the striker I expect, so he scored.

Mike

Dub13

IIRC we were playing well this time lads year and when the team came back from the International brake they played crap for a few weeks.Lets hope it has the reverse effect this year.

Malice

mike65 wrote: »

Benny scored for Israel and Babel set up Huntelaaaaaaar with a left sided cross in thier freindly with Australia (Kewell scored for them).

Mike

Don't forget Skrtel scored for Slovakia as well!

DeadSkin

"I'm your man" :pac:

missingtime

malice_ wrote: »

Don't forget Skrtel scored for Slovakia as well!

Yea...its a few pages back. Good to see our defenders scoring.
At least we know they can. Once we get someone who can take a ****ing corner...

Interesting article in the sunday times on gerrard.
I'll see if i can find it on the net.

The Sunday Times wrote:

Steven Gerrard: Paying the price for his versatility

Steven Gerrard ought to be the Bryan Robson de nos jours. Instead he is in danger of becoming a new Paul Madeley who, with Don Revie’s Leeds and England, was so proficient in a number of positions that he never settled in the one he wanted. The Liverpool captain regards himself as a central midfielder, full stop, and has come to regret the versatility that has seen him shunted into different roles, for club and country. He offers a startling statistic: in 68 appearances for England he has patrolled his preferred beat just five times. He could not recall Robson or Paul Ince playing wide on the left.

Full article

mike65

Read that, clear message being sent to Rafa about where he plays.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article4691512.ece

Mike

missingtime

Snap!

PHB

It's Gerrards own fault that he isn't being played in central midfield. He's lost his discipline, especially in regards to his movement and his decision making. That discipline is essential for a central midfielder.
He has become a withdrawn striker, kinda of doing the opposite to what Scholes did. He isn't 'good' enough to play central midfield anymore, he is an attacking midfielder/withdrawn striker now.

missingtime

PHB wrote: »

It's Gerrards own fault that he isn't being played in central midfield.

Thats a bit harsh...you cant improve if you been shifted here there and everywhere.

Could you say its Rooneys fault for not scoring enough goals? He too has been shifted here there and everywhere. Often playing out on the wing for champions league games.

Both players play for the team more than themselves or their own development.

PHB

missingtime wrote: »

Thats a bit harsh...you cant improve if you been shifted here there and everywhere.

Could you say its Rooneys fault for not scoring enough goals? He too has been shifted here there and everywhere. Often playing out on the wing for champions league games.

Both players play for the team more than themselves or their own development.

Well like, Rooney isn't meant to score goals anyway. He has been shifted about for the good of the team no doubt. The shift was good for him in many ways, made him a better all round player. Also most Untied fans think Rooney was at least in the top 3 of our best players last year, and by far the most important player for the team. Last year however, he was doing a job for the team. This year, he'll start to revert to old. So in that sense, I wouldn't blame him, but then again, I'm not hugely concerned about him.

Gerrards problems didn't start when he was shifted however. They started when he was dragging the club through countless games. IMO he developed an attitude that he had to do it all, which at the time, was the right attitude, because he literally dragged Liverpool through lots of games. But when Liverpool started to get other good players, his wastefulness started to become more and more noticable.

Liverpool fans aren't happy with a poor performance and a last minute goal from him anymore, which used to be what Liverpool desperately needed. His general play needed to be better. But it wasn't getting better, so Rafa made the right move and moved him to the right, where he had a fantastic season. Now he's moved him into a behind the striker type player, and he was amazing there too. These are positions where you can get the amazing parts of Gerrards game, but without the negatives. He was shifted there because his game was messed up, it didn't mess up his game [although I'm sure he's adjusted his game somewhat to new positions, it's just not the primary cause]

leninbenjamin

I noticed that article too, overly sympathetic i thought.

I find it particularly ironic when he talks about having to do the defensive role when playing along side Redknapp, then being able to 'express' himself along side Hamann. that's where the problem lies, as he's matured as a player he's taken it as a licence to roam. when he's been given the opportunity to play CM in the past few years he's looked decidedly dodgy and illdisciplined, and it should be noted that his performances have continued along that vein this season even though he's been largely in his favoured spot. call it what you like; but it doesn't change the situation. he's no longer a proper CM. I just wish he'd stop moaning about it and realise that the teams he plays in nearly always perform better when he's NOT in CM.

monkey9

Ah sure, Gerrard won't be our problem for long. According to the News Of The World himself and Essien are going to Man City in January. :rolleyes:

~Rebel~

Plessis has an interview up on the official site today. Obviously nobody's told the poor guy he's not included in the Champions League Squad listings either.

The former Lyon midfielder admits he would love to be part of the squad that takes on Marseille in the Champions League on September 16.

"Of course! First of all I hope I'll be part of the squad," he said.

"Then, for sure I was hoping we would draw Lyon or Marseille so I could come back and play in France. At the end of the day it's an immense pleasure, even if we know it’s going to be very difficult.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N161204080907-1056.htm

Chardee MacDennis

anyone else reckon there is an unusual amount of unrest coming from the club in the last few weeks? Rafa giving out about the media, sami about the EC squad, Stevie about his position and carra's book. just doesnt seem like the team is signing off the same song sheet any more...

missingtime

PHB wrote: »

Well like, Rooney isn't meant to score goals anyway. He has been shifted about for the good of the team no doubt. The shift was good for him in many ways, made him a better all round player. Also most Untied fans think Rooney was at least in the top 3 of our best players last year, and by far the most important player for the team. Last year however, he was doing a job for the team. This year, he'll start to revert to old. So in that sense, I wouldn't blame him, but then again, I'm not hugely concerned about him.

Gerrards problems didn't start when he was shifted however. They started when he was dragging the club through countless games. IMO he developed an attitude that he had to do it all, which at the time, was the right attitude, because he literally dragged Liverpool through lots of games. But when Liverpool started to get other good players, his wastefulness started to become more and more noticable.

Liverpool fans aren't happy with a poor performance and a last minute goal from him anymore, which used to be what Liverpool desperately needed. His general play needed to be better. But it wasn't getting better, so Rafa made the right move and moved him to the right, where he had a fantastic season. Now he's moved him into a behind the striker type player, and he was amazing there too. These are positions where you can get the amazing parts of Gerrards game, but without the negatives. He was shifted there because his game was messed up, it didn't mess up his game [although I'm sure he's adjusted his game somewhat to new positions, it's just not the primary cause]

While its as plain as day that Gerrard's best seasons have come from playing in positions that aren't his natural position, I just feel that it's hard to blame someone for not being able to improve on their preferred position when they never get to play in it.

I feel though as club captain he doesn't need to refer to this every season.

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

Well like, Rooney isn't meant to score goals anyway.]

:rolleyes:

DeadSkin

Steven Gerrard needs to stfu and do as Rafa says.

gixerfixer

BastardPrince wrote: »

anyone else reckon there is an unusual amount of unrest coming from the club in the last few weeks? Rafa giving out about the media, sami about the EC squad, Stevie about his position and carra's book. just doesnt seem like the team is signing off the same song sheet any more...

Nope. Cant say i have noticed. Media will try and blow it up into "crisis at Anfield" or some crap like that. They need something to write about ya know:rolleyes:

Malice

anyone else reckon there is an unusual amount of unrest coming from the club in the last few weeks? Rafa giving out about the media, sami about the EC squad, Stevie about his position and carra's book. just doesnt seem like the team is signing off the same song sheet any more...

The media delight in putting a negative connotation onto anything Rafa says. A simple quote will be twisted for all it's worth!

We've known for years that despite all the evidence to the contrary, Gerrard reckons his best position is centre midfield. I'm also not surprised that Hyypia is pissed off at not being named in the Champions League squad. The media would like to twist it but you could also put a positive spin on it by implying that at least Hyypia's not intending to sit on his arse collecting his paycheck every week. He wants to play and he's unfortunate that there are three top class centre backs ahead of him in the first team squad.

I am surprised that Carragher has released a book. I don't really like the idea of player biographies being released while they're still playing. What happens if Carragher captains Liverpool to the title this season for example? Will the publishers re-release the book with an added chapter for the 2008-2009 season?

Actually, that brings up a question, does anyone know if Robbie Fowler's book was updated after he came back to Liverpool?

~Rebel~

malice_ wrote: »

I am surprised that Carragher has released a book. I don't really like the idea of player biographies being released while they're still playing. What happens if Carragher captains Liverpool to the title this season for example? Will the publishers re-release the book with an added chapter for the 2008-2009 season?

Actually, that brings up a question, does anyone know if Robbie Fowler's book was updated after he came back to Liverpool?

i think this is actually one of the reasons they do it just before the end of their career. Loads of people will buy it, and then if anything does happen in the next year or two to warrent another few chapters, loads of people will buy it all over, including some of those who already owned the 'first' copy.

And yes Fowler did do that, in the softcover version which was later released, he had another chapter talking about his recuperation and his resigning for Liverpool. (read the last chapter in waterstones myself to be cheap)

All in all, yes the media spin things, but just looking at the bones of things - only the quotes from the mouths of the relevent people - Rafa's annoyed at the critics, Gerrard is annoyed about his position (what else is new), Carra seems to have said more then he should in his book, and Hyypia is annoyed. Now, there are reasons for all these things, but its still a fact that thats a fair amount of recent quotes coming out together, especially coupled with Finnans treatment and the stadium plans falling apart leaving us paying massive interest rates with no product to show for it.

I dont think it will matter much (if at all), but its still not ideal.

Charlie

Stumbled across this article about Keegan on RAWK, and I was wondering if other Liverpool fans shared a similar opinion, particularly the older fans amongst you. Found it a very interesting read, as I often wondered if the reason Keegan kinda goes unmentioned in Liverpool conversations was because we adopted him as a Geordie, and that's how most people now view him.

mike65

Its very simple to be honest 1974-1977 was a hell of a long time ago and his replacement was a guy called Dalglish who not only replaced Keegan but was a better player and stayed for the rest of his playing career overseeing triumphs in the mid/late 80s. Had Keegan stayed he would be thought of much more often in terms of Liverpool legends.

Mike

Charlie

mike65 wrote: »

Its very simple to be honest 1974-1977 was a hell of a long time ago and his replacement was a guy called Dalglish who not only replaced Keegan but was a better player and stayed for the rest of his playing career overseeing triumphs in the mid/late 80s. Had Keegan stayed he would be thought of much more often in terms of Liverpool legends.

Mike

Fair enough. It is great reading over the comments after the article and seeing so much passion, admiration, and gratitude for a bloke that I find myself constantly having to defend. One of the few things that I have read over the last week that hasn't made me want to curl up and die.

Dont be at yourself

I've a huge amount of respect for Keegan, both as a player and as a manager.

Imagine if he had Dalglish and Keegan in the team together? Phwoar.

yayamark

malice_ wrote: »

Actually, that brings up a question, does anyone know if Robbie Fowler's book was updated after he came back to Liverpool?

~Rebel~ wrote: »

i
And yes Fowler did do that, in the softcover version which was later released, he had another chapter talking about his recuperation and his resigning for Liverpool. (read the last chapter in waterstones myself to be cheap)

After buying the RF book 3 years ago i finished it finally 2 days ago :rolleyes: a bit slow i know but i lost it, forgot about it etc.

Must go to a bookshop to read the last bit.

Still have stevie Gs book to start.

Karmafaerie

~Rebel~ wrote: »

especially coupled with Finnans treatment

This is really starting to annoy me.

I loved Finnan, thought he was great, one of the best full backs in the league.
And I'm really sad to see him go.

But the amount of baseless acusations about Finnan being treated so badly are ridiculous.

He was brought in, and held his first choice slot for years, but he's getting on, and it was better for him and Liverpool for him to move on.
He was always well treated at Liverpool.

monkey9

mike65 wrote: »

Its very simple to be honest 1974-1977 was a hell of a long time ago and his replacement was a guy called Dalglish who not only replaced Keegan but was a better player and stayed for the rest of his playing career overseeing triumphs in the mid/late 80s. Had Keegan stayed he would be thought of much more often in terms of Liverpool legends.

Mike

I think Keegan is a Liverpool legend in fairness, but yeah i agree with what you're saying.

mru

Karmafaerie wrote: »

This is really starting to annoy me.

I loved Finnan, thought he was great, one of the best full backs in the league.
And I'm really sad to see him go.

But the amount of baseless acusations about Finnan being treated so badly are ridiculous.

He was brought in, and held his first choice slot for years, but he's getting on, and it was better for him and Liverpool for him to move on.
He was always well treated at Liverpool.

+1

I absolutely agree with this. The manager identifed an area that we could strengthen/improve for the future so decided to go with Arbeloa. I've no problems with the way Finnan was treated. It's a business at the end of the day.

noodler

I think Finnan was badly treated. Left in limbo for weeks and then sold essentialy to ensure the Riera deal went off without a hitch.

In the words of Jim Beglin on Saturday evening-shame he has left Liverpool, he is still better than anything they have got.

Dub13

noodler wrote: »

I think Finnan was badly treated. Left in limbo for weeks and then sold essentialy to ensure the Riera deal went off without a hitch.

This is not true as we agreed a price for Riera and were prepared to pay it all in cash,then they were interested in Finnan.what took time was agreeing how much Finnan was worth and therefore knocking that of the already agreed price.

mike65

Here's what Finnan thinks.

"It was totally out of the blue," Finnan told reporters.

"It's exciting to be going to a great club in Spain but I didn't want to leave.

"But it was obvious that I wasn't going to get a game by staying so I didn't really have much choice."

Mike.

noodler

I was under the impression the Riera deal was fairl last minute. The point is not that Finnan wasn't part of the fee, the point is that we agreed to sell at all. We are now a little short in that position.

It certainly wasn't a coincidence we sold him on the last day to a team we were trying to buy another player from for weeks.

Dub13

noodler wrote: »

I was under the impression the Riera deal was fairl last minute. The point is not that Finnan wasn't part of the fee, the point is that we agreed to sell at all. We are now a little short in that position.

It certainly wasn't a coincidence we sold him on the last day to a team we were trying to buy another player from for weeks.

The Riera deal was not a last minute job it was 99% done a few days before the window closed,the Finnan part of the deal was a deadline day addition to the deal.

For some reason Rafa went off Finnan,so he knew he was not going to get much/any game time this season.At this stage of his career he needed to move on.I don't see how he was hard done by managers go off players all the time.

noodler

The player having to publicly come out and say he is in 'limbo' is one piece of evidence.

Its a mistake by Rafa, plain and simple. We could have gotten another season at least from him and now we are stick with Arbeloa (who has promise but has looked suspect so far this season IMO).

missingtime

I'm wondering was it Finnans decision to come out of international retirement that Rafa wasn't pleased with.

noodler

I have a feeling that played a part alright.

prendy

missingtime wrote: »

I'm wondering was it Finnans decision to come out of international retirement that Rafa wasn't pleased with.

i thought the same thing when i saw it.

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

The player having to publicly come out and say he is in 'limbo' is one piece of evidence.

Its a mistake by Rafa, plain and simple. We could have gotten another season at least from him and now we are stick with Arbeloa (who has promise but has looked suspect so far this season IMO).

wat are you talking about?

a mistake plain and simple? how can you possibly say that?

Finnan also came out and said that Rafa had spoken to him about his plans, that he was in limbo at the minute, meaning presumably Rafa told him if we got an offer he would be sold, so Rafa and Finnan were waiting on that offer.

Nothing bad out about that.

The Rooster

I think Finnan was treated shabbily enough by Benitez at the end. Dropped completely from the squad for no reason. And Benitez basically lied when he said the reason he wasnt in the squad was because he wasnt fit.

It looks clear that Sami thinks he's been treated badly too. For a guy who's given the service he has, it would have been far better to inform him of the problems with the CL squad prior to the transfer deadline.

I presume Arsenal, the mancs and Chelsea have also had to leave out a few "names" from their squads....

noodler

No, he was in limbo because he wasn't playing games. He did not say he was allowed to leave at that stage-don't assume things. 'presumably'? You mean you are guessing. Furthermore, trying to offload him to Villa as a makeshift in the Barry deal. More bad treatment.

I think it is a mistake when I compare the form of Finnan and Arbeloa over the last 2 years. Arbeloa has been medicore so far this season and cover from the bench in the form of Degen is kinda light.

Jazzy

wats the likelyhood of Torres being fit for the Utd game? i know gerrard will be out for it. will berbatov being playing btw ?

Mr Alan

The Rooster wrote: »

I think Finnan was treated shabbily enough by Benitez at the end. Dropped completely from the squad for no reason. And Benitez basically lied when he said the reason he wasnt in the squad was because he wasnt fit.

he was dropped because he was for sale?! wats bad out about that? you also think Voronin and Pennant were treated badly? maybe Intandje too?

noodler wrote: »

I think it is a mistake when I compare the form of Finnan and Arbeloa over the last 2 years.

Arbeloa has been better than finnan for us since he has arrived.

Deegan is now there too who can act as Arbeloas back up, and I expect Carragher to play out there a bit this season to. I think Rafa has made a good decision.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

Arbeloa has been better than finnan for us since he has arrived.

Arbeloa has been here for over 2 years and this is completely untrue.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

machiavellianme

Surely Finnan was dropped because he's getting on in years and Rafa figured it better to bed in his successor. Same thing with Sami. We cant play with 3 of the back 4 in their 30's against teams like Villa, Chelsea or Utd as their pace would kill us. Time for the new batch to get a shot. Finnan is getting to retire in sunny spain with a half decent team playing in a more relaxed league, whats wrong with that?