Arsenal Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

L'prof

DSB wrote: »

You honestly think 3 experienced players will put you up there alongside Man United and Chelsea who have top quality players across the park. Lets be honest, this Arsenal team probably wouldn't be in the CL next season only for a complete collapse from Villa. They're a million miles off winning the league right now.

You're completely underestimating how stretched we were this season due to injuries. We still manged to go on a run of 21 unbeaten in the league. Oh but sure, that's right any old team could do that! We're not that far off, we just lack any real consistency this season, but that will come! If we bring in 3 players that can seriously challenge for first team places, then yes we'll be well up there!

EDIT: 12 points isn't exactly a million miles either! Nobody was outstanding this season. I feel on our current form in the league we would have caught Villa sooner or later anyway!

yahoo_moe

gosplan wrote: »

Most likely because we're caught between two styles but never properly committing to one, evidenced by poor crossing,

Yeah this has been annoying me for a while but last night really crystallised it - time and again, Sagna hitting the first man or looping it long and high (and others are the same). If we're going to suddenly be a team who cross the ball, we should really be able to do it properly - Utd seemed more than happy to let Sagna wind up for crosses and waste our good approach play.

yahoo_moe

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I wonder, will we win something before the cycle repeats itself again? ... Where are his priorities?

While winning something is always a goal, we can't just guarantee that by spending £40m. I think the number one priority is stability - and because we can't guarantee success just by flashing the cash, I'm okay with that.

TOP PREMIER LEAGUE WAGE BILLS 2006/7
Chelsea - £132.8m
Manchester Utd - £92.3m
Arsenal - £89.7m
Liverpool - £77.6m

That's with Henry though, which was £5m that year. I know Arshavin and Nasri have been added and Ade's wages have gone up, but Chelsea (Alex, Bosingwa, Anelka, Malouda, Deco, improved contract for Lampard), United (Berbatov, Tevez, Anderson, Nani, improved contracts for Rooney, Ronaldo and maybe Vidic) and Liverpool (Torres, Mascherano, Arbeloa, Benayoun, Aurelio, improved contract for Agger) have all increased in that time too, probably by more.

The club made a £25m profit last year, where's that gone?

From a fan's point of view, it might seem that every penny should be spent straight away. But given how close we came to losing 4th this year (and before - even with Henry, Campbell, Pires, Ljungberg and Cole), I find it comforting that we're not budgeting right to our limit.

Royale with Cheese

DSB wrote: »

Lets be honest, this Arsenal team probably wouldn't be in the CL next season only for a complete collapse from Villa.

Rubbish. Unbeaten in the league in about 20 games, consistently near the top of the form table for the past few months.

They put together a very strong run, and deserve to be where they are in the league.

DSB

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Rubbish. Unbeaten in the league in about 20 games, consistently near the top of the form table for the past few months.

They put together a very strong run, and deserve to be where they are in the league.

Lets be fair, Villa would have been expected to take 10 points more than they had in the 9 games since Stoke, with Arsenal still having to play United or Chelsea. Villa really should have taken 4th place, but absolutely fell apart.

And that 20 game unbeaten thing is good, but they've had 9 draws since their last defeat, which makes it not so good in comparison to the teams they're competing with. 4 or 5 losses in there with no draws and they'd have been in a better situation and closer to the top.

Pepe LeFrits

DSB wrote: »

You honestly think 3 experienced players will put you up there alongside Man United and Chelsea who have top quality players across the park. Lets be honest, this Arsenal team probably wouldn't be in the CL next season only for a complete collapse from Villa. They're a million miles off winning the league right now.

That's bollocks to be fair. A complete collapse from Villa allied to the small detail of 21 game unbeaten run in the league...

3 players could make all the difference. Look at what Arshavin has added to the team. Three new players and the squad would be massively stronger than the team which pushed Chelsea and United a long way last season.

Pepe LeFrits

yahoo_moe wrote: »

While winning something is always a goal, we can't just guarantee that by spending £40m. I think the number one priority is stability - and because we can't guarantee success just by flashing the cash, I'm okay with that.

I'm not looking for money to be spent for the sake of it, but we have had glaring issues for some time. What's the most Wenger has ever spent on a CB or a DM? He's not afraid to splash out on attacking players.

L'prof

DSB wrote: »

Lets be fair, Villa would have been expected to take 10 points more than they had in the 9 games since Stoke, with Arsenal still having to play United or Chelsea. Villa really should have taken 4th place, but absolutely fell apart.

And that 20 game unbeaten thing is good, but they've had 9 draws since their last defeat, which makes it not so good in comparison to the teams they're competing with. 4 or 5 losses in there with no draws and they'd have been in a better situation and closer to the top.

Current run:

P   W   D   L   F   A  GD Pts
2008-2009:  21  12   9   0  38  14  24  45

2.14 points per game, which over a season would be 81 points.

So while 9 draws there isn't great, it's still a decent amount of points!!!

Last eight:

P   W   D   L   F   A  GD Pts
2008-2009:   8   7   1   0  25   7  18  22

2.75 points per game, which averages at 104 points :P

Anyway, I always expected Villa to drop away eventually (not as dramatically as they did), their squad isn't big enough and the Uefa Cup didn't help either.

yahoo_moe

DSB wrote: »

Lets be fair, Villa would have been expected to take 10 points more than they had in the 9 games since Stoke, with Arsenal still having to play United or Chelsea.

I agree that Villa fell apart - but if we're talking expectations over arbitrary time periods, Arsenal would have expected not to lose to Hull, Stoke and Fulham in the opening third of the season. And they would have expected more than four consecutive 0-0s against West Ham (H), Spurs (A), Sunderland (H) and Fulham (H).

Villa were in pole position - Arsenal came back while Villa fell behind. Simple as.

MementoMori

So just had a look at the Arsenal squad and what they cost. Some of these prices might be slightly off but I'm reasonably confident most that they are pretty accurate overall. Also there is the fact that the Gallas/Cole swap deal complicates matters as it's hard to figure what Gallas "cost" Arsenal. Also I couldn't find anything about how much Utd got for Silvestre or AS Monaco got for Armand Traore.

Clearly Wenger has assembled a very decent squad on not very much money.
The two big outliers are clearly Arshavin and Nasri. Interestingly Nasri was bought last summer and Arshavin in January, so you might possibly argue that lately he has been willing to adjust his philosophy slightly to bring in big-money signings.

Looking at the list overall there does seem to be an imbalance in terms of the number of quality attacking players compared to the quality defenders. I wonder if this might be down to the fact that it takes longer for defenders to mature/come into their own when compared to attackers. If you put a young quality attacker into a team and he makes a mistake, it's unlikely to cost the team anything. However if you put a young promising defender into a game and he makes a mistake it can have serious consequences. It's not a hard and fast rule but in general if you think of promising starlets it's a lot easier to think of young attacking players when compared to young defenders.

I really can't see Wenger moving on in the summer, because I think the board at Arsenal know that there aren't other candidates out there who are likely to do any better. Arsene might decide to quit himself but I don't think that's too likely either.

However I think serious questions would have to be asked if the priority in the summer transfer market wasn't the defence/defensive midfielders.

Andrei Arshavin £15m
Samir Nasri £12m
Eduardo £7.5m
Emmanuel Adebayor £7m
Tomáš Rosický £6.8m
Bacary Sagna £6m
Theo Walcott £5m (Another £7m in add-ons)
Aaron Ramsey £4.8m
Denílson £3.5m
Robin van Persie £2.75m
Manuel Almunia £2.6m
Phillipe Senderos £2.5m
Fran Mérida £2.1m
Abou Diaby £2m
Lukasz Fabianski £2m
Håvard Nordtveit £2m
Angel di Maria £2m
Emmanuel Eboué £1m
Alexandre Song £1m
Pedro Botelho £1m
Cesc Fàbregas £700k
Vito Mannone £350k
Gaël Clichy £250k
Nicklas Bendtner £225k
Kolo Touré £150k
Carlos Vela £125k
Nacer Barazite Nominal Fee (£100K)
Vincent van den Berg Nominal Fee (£100k)
Henri Lansbury Free
Amaury Bischoff Free
William Gallas swap with Ashely Cole
Mikaël Silvestre Undisclosed
Armand Traore Undisclosed
Jack Wilshere 0
Johan Djourou 0
Francis Coquelin 0
Jay Emmanuel-Thomas 0
Kieran Gibbs 0
Mark Randall 0
Emmanuel Frimpong 0
Gavin Hoyte 0
Jay Simpson 0
Abu Ogogo 0
Rui Fonte 0
Paul Rodgers 0
Rene Steer 0
Kerrea Gilbert 0
Wojciech Szczesny 0

£90.55m

yahoo_moe

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I'm not looking for money to be spent for the sake of it, but we have had glaring issues for some time. What's the most Wenger has ever spent on a CB or a DM? He's not afraid to splash out on attacking players.

CBs just don't cost money, though. Vidic was only about £7m but if we'd signed him two seasons ago, we might've won the league last year.

DM fair enough - but in terms of who's moved in the last couple of years, it's been pretty slim pickings. And even then, we should be mainly talking about last summer when Flamini - who proved ideal for us last season - wasn't replaced. There's a lot to be said for the theory that Wenger was ready to sign Alonso for £14m-ish last summer before the Barry move fell through (I'm pretty sure we all expected that to go ahead).

MementoMori wrote:

However I think serious questions would have to be asked if the priority in the summer transfer market wasn't the defence/defensive midfielders.

I think that's fair enough.

DSB

yahoo_moe wrote: »

I agree that Villa fell apart - but if we're talking expectations over arbitrary time periods, Arsenal would have expected not to lose to Hull, Stoke and Fulham in the opening third of the season. And they would have expected more than four consecutive 0-0s against West Ham (H), Spurs (A), Sunderland (H) and Fulham (H).

Villa were in pole position - Arsenal came back while Villa fell behind. Simple as.

You're right, but the difference is we're not talking about Villa as title contenders next year, you hear what I'm barking dawg?

jank

DSB wrote: »

You honestly think 3 experienced players will put you up there alongside Man United and Chelsea who have top quality players across the park. Lets be honest, this Arsenal team probably wouldn't be in the CL next season only for a complete collapse from Villa. They're a million miles off winning the league right now.

Horse manure. Last year we went very close to winning the league. A few players can make a huge difference to a team. Imagine United with Ronaldo and Rooney injured for the best part of 4 months?

jank

Anyway even if Wenger was going to go who would we replace him with.
The only name I can think of is Jose the "Special One". United are eying him up for the management job as soon as fergie steps down (which IMO will be next year!)

Anyone else? Hiddink?

As for DM and CB who is out there? De Rossie maybe, Flamini Yay Toure.
Micah Richards. Names arent jumping out at me like it did previously.

DSB

jank wrote: »

Horse manure. Last year we went very close to winning the league. A few players can make a huge difference to a team. Imagine United with Ronaldo and Rooney injured for the best part of 4 months?

And subsequently lost 2 of your most impressive players who were a massive loss last season. Seriously, if you think Arsenal have any hope of winning the league next year, without massive investment, I'd love to have a pair of those goggles. They don't have anything close to a squad.

OPENROAD

DSB wrote: »

And subsequently lost 2 of your most impressive players who were a massive loss last season. Seriously, if you think Arsenal have any hope of winning the league next year, without massive investment, I'd love to have a pair of those goggles. They don't have anything close to a squad.

The squad is not actually that bad but we have just been done on injuries that no other team could cope with, a bit more luck on the injury front and a couple of signings we will be very close.

jank

DSB wrote: »

And subsequently lost 2 of your most impressive players who were a massive loss last season. Seriously, if you think Arsenal have any hope of winning the league next year, without massive investment, I'd love to have a pair of those goggles. They don't have anything close to a squad.

Maybe you should read what I post before you talk ****.

I said (in case you missed it) that a few players can make a big difference. 2 or 3 good players can make a big difference to Arsenal. I never said that the squad as is, is good enough....

tony1kenobi

MementoMori wrote: »

Also there is the fact that the Gallas/Cole swap deal complicates matters as it's hard to figure what Gallas "cost" Arsenal.

About 20 million I reckon.

DSB wrote: »

Seriously, if you think Arsenal have any hope of winning the league next year, without massive investment, I'd love to have a pair of those goggles. They don't have anything close to a squad.

They aren't goggles. They are Arshavin.

DSB

jank wrote: »

Maybe you should read what I post before you talk ****.

I said (in case you missed it) that a few players can make a big difference. 2 or 3 good players can make a big difference to Arsenal. I never said that the squad as is, is good enough....

Was the question whether I thought United could compete for the title without Rooney and Ronaldo for 4 months? I'd say yeah, they'd be weakened by it, and they'd find it harder, but they've a very strong squad that would cope.

tony1kenobi wrote: »

They aren't goggles. They are Arshavin.

Arshavin is class, but he isn't gonna be the difference with winning the league. People saying Arsenal need 3 experienced players to challenge is off the mark, they need 3 more Arshavin quality players, to go with Fabregas and Van Persie, preferably at the back. A good holding midfielder is a necessity too.

That_Guy

I wouldn't be surprised to see Wenger going for Bassong from us if we go down. I know he's young but I think Wenger can mould him into an incredible player. I think Arsenal really need someone like him in their squad.

As much as I'd love to keep him at Newcastle next year, I don't think Championship football is what he wants to be playing.

jank

Maybe we should buy Joey Barton.........

*gets coat*

MementoMori

MementoMori wrote: »

Andrei Arshavin £15m
Samir Nasri £12m
Eduardo £7.5m
Emmanuel Adebayor £7m
Tomáš Rosický £6.8m
Bacary Sagna £6m
Theo Walcott £5m (Another £7m in add-ons)
Aaron Ramsey £4.8m
Denílson £3.5m
Robin van Persie £2.75m
Manuel Almunia £2.6m
Phillipe Senderos £2.5m
Fran Mérida £2.1m
Abou Diaby £2m
Lukasz Fabianski £2m
Håvard Nordtveit £2m
Angel di Maria £2m
Emmanuel Eboué £1m
Alexandre Song £1m
Pedro Botelho £1m
Cesc Fàbregas £700k
Vito Mannone £350k
Gaël Clichy £250k
Nicklas Bendtner £225k
Kolo Touré £150k
Carlos Vela £125k
Nacer Barazite Nominal Fee (£100K)
Vincent van den Berg Nominal Fee (£100k)
Henri Lansbury Free
Amaury Bischoff Free
William Gallas swap with Ashely Cole
Mikaël Silvestre Undisclosed
Armand Traore Undisclosed
Jack Wilshere 0
Johan Djourou 0
Francis Coquelin 0
Jay Emmanuel-Thomas 0
Kieran Gibbs 0
Mark Randall 0
Emmanuel Frimpong 0
Gavin Hoyte 0
Jay Simpson 0
Abu Ogogo 0
Rui Fonte 0
Paul Rodgers 0
Rene Steer 0
Kerrea Gilbert 0
Wojciech Szczesny 0

£90.55m

Angel di Maria plays for benfica. we never signed him. heard he is quality though. hoping we did.

yahoo_moe

DSB wrote: »

You're right, but the difference is we're not talking about Villa as title contenders next year, you hear what I'm barking dawg?

Ah well I wasn't really talking about the possibility of an Arsenal title challenge next year...

BUT

it does strike me that 'massive investment' and the '2 or 3 players' that you guys are arguing for and against probably aren't that far away from each other given that the 2 or 3 players people want would have to be top quality. I partially agree with you, though - I don't think Arsenal have been set up to win the league for a couple of seasons now, though I do think we're slowly turning that round if we can hold onto what we have and add.

On Bassong, I'd gladly snap him up - looks a great player. Very much in the Gallas mould (though a leftie), so could easily be first-choice for us after 2 blooding-in seasons while Willie winds down.

L'prof

Goalkeepers:
Manuel Almunia
Lukasz Fabianski
Vito Mannone

Defenders:
Bacary Sagna
Kolo Toure
William Gallas
Gael Clichy
Philippe Senderos
Mikael Silvestre
Johan Djourou
Armand Traore
Kieran Gibbs

Midfielders:
Tomas Rosicky/Theo Walcott
Cesc Fabregas
Alexandre Song/Denilson
Andrey Arshavin/Samir Nasri
Aaron Ramsey
Jack Wilshere
Emmanuel Eboue
Amaury Bischoff
Abou Diaby

Strikers:
Eduardo/Emmanuel Adebayor
Robin van Persie
Carlos Vela
Nicklas Bendtner

I dunno, I just can't see how we'd be that far away if we added a defender, defensive midfielder and maybe a goalkeeper or another midfielder to that squad. Our first 11 is great, but we don't have enough experienced cover is all! We had a ridiculous amount of injuries this season and I feel that's the only reason we didn't challenge.

Quazzie

Goalkeepers:
Manuel Almunia
Lukasz Fabianski
Vito Mannone

Defenders:
Bacary Sagna
Kolo Toure
William Gallas
Gael Clichy
Philippe Senderos
Mikael Silvestre $
Johan Djourou
Armand Traore $
Kieran Gibbs

Midfielders:
Tomas Rosicky $ /Theo Walcott
Cesc Fabregas
Alexandre Song $/Denilson$
Andrey Arshavin/Samir Nasri
Aaron Ramsey
Jack Wilshere
Emmanuel Eboue
Amaury Bischoff
Abou Diaby$

Strikers:
Eduardo/Emmanuel Adebayor$
Robin van Persie
Carlos Vela
Nicklas Bendtner$

The $ are beside players that we could do with selling and replacing tbh. Obviously we can't afford to change all them without affecting team stability but I'd be happy with as many as possible.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

The $ are beside players that we could do with selling and replacing tbh. Obviously we can't afford to change all them without affecting team stability but I'd be happy with as many as possible.

Why would you sell Song? He's about the only player this year that has actually improved and played well in the position we're weakest in! Obviously we still need someone to come in to be first choice ahead of him but he's great to have.

Also can't agree with Rosicky or Bendtner. Rosicky wouldn't get us any money anyway cos his contract is pretty much finished and Bendtner is very good for a fourth choice striker, even if he's frustrating and a bit of a tit.

Quazzie

playa3 wrote: »

Why would you sell Song? He's about the only player this year that has actually improved and played well in the position we're weakest in! Obviously we still need someone to come in to be first choice ahead of him but he's great to have.

Also can't agree with Rosicky or Bendtner. Rosicky wouldn't get us any money anyway cos his contract is pretty much finished and Bendtner is very good for a fourth choice striker, even if he's frustrating and a bit of a tit.

I think we could atttract better players than Song. He has improved but he is still not to the standard I would hope to have. Agreed though that he might be ok as a back up, due also to the fact he can fill in at CB.

As for Bendtner I really hate the guy and think he is seriously out of his depth. Even as a fourth choice striker I'd rather see him gone. Adebayour, Van Persie, Eduardo, and Vela. We could sell Bendtner and replace him with someone that has more presence and ability. That would be five reasonably young and good strikers which would be more than enough.

L'prof

It's a fúcking disgrace

itsjaybud

Did anyone see this goal, ive looked for a link to it but maybe its too early for it to be posted yet or is it?!

Sounds like a quality finish from a very promising player.

Fran-tastic strike ends Merida goal drought

It's been one year, seven months and 25 days since Fran Merida scored a Reserve League goal. But when it came, it was worth the wait.

The Spanish midfielder flighted a delightful chip over Dean Kiely to give Arsenal the lead at the Hawthorns on Wednesday night. West Brom hit back to earn a 1-1 draw but Merida's strike will live long in the memory.

It was his first since an equally brilliant free-kick against Tottenham in September 2007 and it capped a pretty good week for the 19-year-old, who made his second Premier League appearance as a substitute in Saturday's 3-0 win at Portsmouth.

"I made the run and Jay [Emmanuel-Thomas] saw me and gave me a great ball. I just saw the chip so I tried it and it went in after nearly two years without scoring a goal," Merida told Arsenal.com.

Full story

itsjaybud

^^^ classy goal just seen it there on Arsenal tv Reserves repeat, taken from just inside the box!

Very much against the run of play though!


Also from the arsenal.com website theyre putting together 50 greatest arsenal goals from a shortlist of 100. Theres two videos there worth a look.

Theres 4/5 that i enjoyed watching again but if i could vote i think Henrys strike against the Hammers back in 2002 would be the one! Theres a few more from him that could have been thrown into the mix aswell!


Gunners Greatest Goals


Not that its too important now but Clichy's season is over.

DSB

itsjaybud wrote: »

^^^ classy goal just seen it there on Arsenal tv Reserves repeat, taken from just inside the box!

Very much against the run of play though!


Also from the arsenal.com website theyre putting together 50 greatest arsenal goals from a shortlist of 100. Theres two videos there worth a look.

Theres 4/5 that i enjoyed watching again but if i could vote i think Henrys strike against the Hammers back in 2002 would be the one! Theres a few more from him that could have been thrown into the mix aswell!


Gunners Greatest Goals


Not that its too important now but Clichy's season is over.

Bergkamps goal against...... I think it was Newcastle?

Pepe LeFrits

We should sell van Persie, Diaby, Silvestre and probably Adebayor. Use the money to buy a new winger, a central midfielder and a centre-back. Something like David Silva/Zhirkov, Melo/Toulalan, Hangeland/Sakho.

OPENROAD

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

We should sell van Persie, Diaby, Silvestre and probably Adebayor. Use the money to buy a new winger, a central midfielder and a centre-back. Something like David Silva/Zhirkov, Melo/Toulalan, Hangeland/Sakho.

Have never taken to Adebayor,don't know why, I just can't take to him, I really believe we sold Thierry too early.

itsjaybud

Personally i would be gutted if van persie was sold during the summer and tbh i cant believe how any arsenal fan would want to see him sold.

I wouldnt be too disappointed to see the following players leave;

Silvestre
Diaby
Eboue
Denilson
Bendtner
Adebayor

Feel a bit harsh putting Denilson on the list but it was either him or Song and my opinion of Song has drastically changed over the past few months and plus he can play at CB (well kinda)

itsjaybud

OPENROAD wrote: »

Have never taken to Adebayor,don't know why, I just can't take to him, I really believe we sold Thierry too early.

Sorry but im really tired of hearing this tbh, Henry is well gone lets just move on!

Pepe LeFrits

van Persie is astonishingly overrated. He's slow, weak, one-footed, wasteful and selfish. His first touch is surprisingly poor and he takes forever to release the ball. For a so-called second striker, he does a terrible job of linking the play. We'd be so much better off with Arshavin doing his job - especially when Arsene goes for his 4-5-1.

He doesn't even score many of his 'wow' highlight reel goals anymore.

OPENROAD

itsjaybud wrote: »

Sorry but im really tired of hearing this tbh, Henry is well gone lets just move on!

Just my opinion, we sold him too early and when we did we never properly replaced him.

itsjaybud

I was actually very impressed with RVP in the majority of the games he played this season when fully fit.

To say hes slow, one footed and weak is not really something i can agree with. Take Wayne Rooney for example just as one footed, not exactly considered to have serious pace but like RVP he doesnt really need it either!

Rooney is obviously alot more physical but again i think RVP is actually a pretty feisty player and wouldnt consider him easily shoved off the ball, he always tends to lean into players and protect the ball pretty well imo.

Arshavin and RVP playing week in week out next season is something i look forward to.

I would be actually pretty shocked if there was that many fans that feel van persie should be sold, but i hear your opinion but completly disagree with it this time round!

itsjaybud

OPENROAD wrote: »

Just my opinion, we sold him too early and when we did we never properly replaced him.

Ya i know where your coming from, just after seeing to many similar posts at this stage regards the great man!

Henry pretty hard to replace in fairness and its not as if Wenger was ever going to buy a ready made 25/30 goals a season striker!

Interesting summer ahead i reckon.

OPENROAD

itsjaybud wrote: »

Henry pretty hard to replace in fairness and its not as if Wenger was ever going to buy a ready made 25/30 goals a season striker!

.

True he can't be replaced. Have to say for the first time since he left, I am really excited about a player i.e. Arshavin, will be very interesting to see what Arsene does in the summer.

DenMan

Why do a lot of us here want to see Diaby go? I am a big fan of his. He is stong on the ball, has great technique, scores goals and is a very good passer of the ball. He has been played out of position for most of the season lads. Him and Fabs could be an awesome combination. Everytime I see him play in the middle he looks comfortable and confident. In another year he could be the new Patrick Vieira we are all craving for.

Pepe LeFrits

itsjaybud wrote: »

I was actually very impressed with RVP in the majority of the games he played this season when fully fit.

To say hes slow, one footed and weak is not really something i can agree with. Take Wayne Rooney for example just as one footed, not exactly considered to have serious pace but like RVP he doesnt really need it either!

Rooney is obviously alot more physical but again i think RVP is actually a pretty feisty player and wouldnt consider him easily shoved off the ball, he always tends to lean into players and protect the ball pretty well imo.

Rooney is about as quick as Sagna, and his pace should have been pretty evident on Tuesday when he destroyed us for the third goal. van Persie can't and doesn't do that, he never outpaces defenders. He used to be quite quick when he was young but his lost it with the injuries.

Rooney also is much more two-footed. He prefers his right but he can go with his left also. This is pretty evident when you see him run at defenders and they don't know which way he'll go. With van Persie he's always trying to shift it to his left and is generally pretty easily shut down.

Regarding strength... jesus, they're not in the same league, they're not even in the same sport. Rooney regularly bullys defenders. van Persie can generally hold the ball up if it comes to his feet and he can get arse into the defender ala Drogba, but have you ever watched him go shoulder to shoulder with a defender - he gets knocked on his arse virtually every time, whereas Rooney usually holds off the defender comfortably which lets him do what he wants to do with the ball.

Pepe LeFrits

DenMan wrote: »

Why do a lot of us here want to see Diaby go? I am a big fan of his. He is stong on the ball, has great technique, scores goals and is a very good passer of the ball. He has been played out of position for most of the season lads. Him and Fabs could be an awesome combination. Everytime I see him play in the middle he looks comfortable and confident. In another year he could be the new Patrick Vieira we are all craving for.

He's nothing like Vieira at all. He's a flair player with shag all pace who happens to be 6'3". His decision making is terrible and he hasn't got a defensive bone in his body. He's not half the player Vieira was.

tony1kenobi

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

He's nothing like Vieira at all. He's a flair player with shag all pace who happens to be 6'3". His decision making is terrible and he hasn't got a defensive bone in his body. He's not half the player Vieira was.

I agree with DenMan. I think Diaby will become a great player if he is given the chance.

I wouldn't be at all distressed if Van Persie left....

....and I'll pay for Adebayors plane ticket myself. Not an Arsenal man at all with the mouth on him. His best season is behind him.

itsjaybud

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Rooney is about as quick as Sagna, and his pace should have been pretty evident on Tuesday when he destroyed us for the third goal. van Persie can't and doesn't do that, he never outpaces defenders. He used to be quite quick when he was young but his lost it with the injuries.

Rooney also is much more two-footed. He prefers his right but he can go with his left also. This is pretty evident when you see him run at defenders and they don't know which way he'll go. With van Persie he's always trying to shift it to his left and is generally pretty easily shut down.

Regarding strength... jesus, they're not in the same league, they're not even in the same sport. Rooney regularly bullys defenders. van Persie can generally hold the ball up if it comes to his feet and he can get arse into the defender ala Drogba, but have you ever watched him go shoulder to shoulder with a defender - he gets knocked on his arse virtually every time, whereas Rooney usually holds off the defender comfortably which lets him do what he wants to do with the ball.

Had a feeling when i mentioned Rooney this would turn a bit into Rooney verus Van Persie which might enhance your point that van persie should be sold but, for me when they both play to the best of their abilities it would probably be Rooney i would like to see in the arsenal team ahead of RVP but not be as much as your making out.

I just dont see the argument regards both players pace, theyre not the type of players that speed up and down the line and i really do believe when fully fit RVP has every bit as much pace as Rooney does.
The point regarding Sagna tbh again i dont think Sagna is actually that quick!


When deployed on the left rooneys constantly cuts back in to provide a cross on his right foot, it happens on numerous occasions every game he plays from the left. Cant recall Rooney ever doing too much with his left leg regards crosses.

He might take on a few shots on goal, which RVP also does and he can most certainly put his right foot through the ball which we saw away to chelsea this year (i might be mistaken but he did crack one in with it this season)

Granted theres no argument regards physicality of the both players but as ive said RVP can protect the ball pretty well allbeit not to the same extent as Rooney but still effective enough imo.

EDIT: That was it the goal at home to Liverpool cracker!!!

leninbenjamin

DenMan wrote: »

Why do a lot of us here want to see Diaby go? I am a big fan of his. He is stong on the ball, has great technique, scores goals and is a very good passer of the ball. He has been played out of position for most of the season lads. Him and Fabs could be an awesome combination. Everytime I see him play in the middle he looks comfortable and confident. In another year he could be the new Patrick Vieira we are all craving for.

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

He's nothing like Vieira at all. He's a flair player with shag all pace who happens to be 6'3". His decision making is terrible and he hasn't got a defensive bone in his body. He's not half the player Vieira was.

I used be a fan of Diaby, but the lack of progress from him is really worrying. A bit like Bendtner, the raw talent is there but begod they play like kids at times with some of their decisions. I personally think they should be kept away from the starting lineup next season and possibly shipped out on loan to get a season of regula football, to see if signs of their original potential are still there.

p.s. I think RVP should be gotten rid of. he'll never become anything better than he is now. While he's not without talent, he simply isn't good enough for the big games.

itsjaybud

DenMan wrote: »

Why do a lot of us here want to see Diaby go? I am a big fan of his. He is stong on the ball, has great technique, scores goals and is a very good passer of the ball. He has been played out of position for most of the season lads. Him and Fabs could be an awesome combination. Everytime I see him play in the middle he looks comfortable and confident. In another year he could be the new Patrick Vieira we are all craving for.

Ya again i had great hopes for Diaby last year but he just hasnt done it for me and regards the next partner for Cesc, jesus no hes not that type of player at all imo, ie one that will track back as much as he drives forward.

I know where your getting the Vieira thing from when he first burst onto the scene for us he did have a resemblance with his runs etc but now ive lost any such feelings and recently he just doesnt seem to have whats necessary to become a regular at arsenal.

yahoo_moe

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

van Persie is astonishingly overrated.

Rooney v RVP is a less pointless comparison than Diaby v Vieira - but not by much. But I can't agree with your Van Persie assessment really - he's not the quickest, fair enough, but I think his hold-up/link play is pretty good. He's slightly slower than Adebayor at doing it but he can still do it. And he certainly scored at least one showreel goal this year against the 'Pool.

I'd rather sell Ade and keep Van Persie - I don't see where our options come from if we sell both and only buy Zhirkov, Toulalan and Hangeland or whatever.

Diaby I think has ability - but I'd certainly accept him being sold because I just don't see where he fits into the Arsenal team at the moment.

DenMan

Not too long ago we were linked with Torsten Frings and the player himself wanted to join. He could have been a great signing for us but Wenger let that opportunity go.

Frisbee

DenMan wrote: »

In another year he could be the new Patrick Vieira we are all craving for.

1. Tall, Black and Bald.
2. ??????
3. Next Patrick Vieira


Monumental facepalm