Arsenal Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Hero Of College

Mr Alan wrote: »

emm Frisbee-3 of those players have been sold-if thats the reason for the unconvincing form surely the pundits should in fact be having even more of a pop at Arsene?

and i think its very fair to compare the loss of Mascherano to the loss of Fabregas, they are different types of midfielders, but both are arguably the top midfielder in world football for their position and their loss to any team would be huge.

Evidently Frisbee drinks deep of the well of the Philosopher John Giles when he salivates over Fabregas.

Giles is prone to irrational outbursts. When he is not telling us all about Billy Bremner, he is telling us about "The Worlds Outstanding Midfield Player, Cesc Fabregas"

The notion of a single, outstanding midfield player is utter rubbish. It is as unprovable and unrealistic a nomination as the "Pound For Pound" theory which circulates in boxing.

Giles himself as much as acknowledged this when he said that if Diego Maradona played for Brazil in the 1980's, Brazil would have been unbeatable. In other words, its a team game, a jigsaw, and players are the missing pieces. They complement each other, but are useless on their own.

Case In Point:- the 1980's French Team. Sure, Platini was the best known, but he is best remembered as being but one quarter of the legendary "Carre Magique"- the "Magic Square", consisting of Platini, Alain Giresse, Jean Tigana and Luis Fernandez.

Similarly, take the case of Emilio Butragueno. His nickname, "El Buitre", {the Vulture} was a play on both his surname and his tendency to swoop and score. See his goal for Spain against Ireland if you want proof.

However, more famous than El Buitre was La Quinta Del Buitre - the Vultures Cohorts, consisting of Butragueno himself and Manolo Sanchís, Martín Vázquez, Míchel and Miguel Pardeza

There is no such thing as "THE OUTSTANDING PLAYER".

We all have our favourites. We all have a guy who we think is the main man. But when you examine it forensically, a watch is more than the sum of its parts.

But at the end of the day, players need other players. A backdrop, a set, a stage.

To dismiss Mascherano whilst deeming Fabregas indisposable is plain wrong. Mash does his thing, Fabregas does his, and they are both valuable in different ways.

Hero Of College

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

This is the Arsenal thread. Piss off to your own thread to talk about Liverpool.

We are not talking about Liverpool. We are talking football. It would be unwise for Arsenal to think that Fabregas absence is the cause of all the difficulties you had yesterday. For one, it allows people to have excuses. Secondly, it heaps pressure on the man himself, a pressure which he, and men bigger than him {Willy G} buckled under last season.

Fabregas being out does not help. Anymore than Mascherano being out did not help Liverpool.

It would be objective to consider that an absent player is a loss- irrespective of the team in question.

Anything else is a double standard.

eZe^

Kompany really would have been the perfect DMF replacement for Flamini/ Gilberto. When I've seen him at Hamburg playing CB, he can put in a quality performance for 99% of the game, but slip up at the end and cost the team a goal. He is a little naive for CB but could turn out to be an excellent on in the future. However, he is an excellent DMF, because he can afford to have the slight defensive lapse, he also has an excellent range of passing.

Hero Of College

eZe^ wrote: »

Kompany really would have been the perfect DMF replacement for Flamini/ Gilberto. When I've seen him at Hamburg playing CB, he can put in a quality performance for 99% of the game, but slip up at the end and cost the team a goal. He is a little naive for CB but could turn out to be an excellent on in the future. However, he is an excellent DMF, because he can afford to have the slight defensive lapse, he also has an excellent range of passing.

I would not be surprised if Sissoko plutzed and Juve and Wenger made a move for £5m or so.

eZe^

Sissoko is a fantastic DMF, he has also become much better at passing. If I could have any DMF in the world at Barca it'd prob be Sissoko.

Won't happen though, Juve are more than happy with him, I know some Juve fans, and they all adore him.

cson

Methinks it would have been an awful lot easier to give Flamini his 60k a year or whatever he was looking for rather than do nothing and be left with a huge problem in CM (Which paradoxically was our stongest position at the start of last year, we had Fabregas-Gilberto-Flamini-Diarra-Denilson-Diaby) with only 7 days to sort it.

leninbenjamin

bbc.co.uk/football wrote:

Wenger no closer to new signings

Boss Arsene Wenger says there are no new Arsenal signings on the horizon, as the transfer deadline approaches.

Despite having been linked with Aston Villa's Gareth Barry and Xabi Alonso of Liverpool, Wenger told BBC Sport: "We are not close to signing anybody."

But Cesc Fabregas feels the addition of Alonso would be important for his side.

"He is my friend and apart from that he is a great passer of the ball, he works hard defensively, he's experienced and he is only 26", the Spaniard said.

"For me he would be perfect. I'd love it."

The transfer window shuts on 1 September and Wenger has had to contend with the midfield departures of Mathieu Flamini, Gilberto Silva and Alexander Hleb, while Samir Nasri, Aaron Ramsey and Amaury Bischoff have been brought in.

But Arsenal were forced to field winger Emmanuel Eboue in central midfield alongside Denilson in the 1-0 defeat at Fulham on Saturday.

The 21-year-old Nasri and 19-year-old Theo Walcott occupied the wings but were both off colour in the surprise loss at Craven Cottage.

And Fabregas, 21, currently ruled out of action with injury, is keen to make sure the squad is challenging for honours this season.

He said: "This club has something special that no others have. We have to take care of it.

"I have a lot of friends in Spain and Italy and when they speak about other clubs I know I am privileged to be where I am.

"I don't want to lose it. I want to win things for the club. I want to get experience here. I want to play for Arsenal.

When you see football all around the world, you see very few teams who play the way that we play.

Cesc Fabregas

"When you see football all around the world, you see very few teams who play the way that we play.

"I just enjoy it. I feel it is my home now."

Fabregas also confessed his desire to one day captain the club.

"I would love it," he continued.

"I am happy with everything, my number four, playing for Arsenal in centre midfield and giving 100% every game.

"But if the boss thinks in one or two years I am ready to be captain, I will take the armband."

lovely.

on the Flamini thing, I read recently enough that Arsenal really ****ed him around. supposedly they wouldn't come close to his demands initially, then he got pissed off, Milan came in for him, and only then did Arsenal up their offer. if true it's very worrying.

Royale with Cheese

leninbenjamin wrote: »

on the Flamini thing, I read recently enough that Arsenal really ****ed him around. supposedly they wouldn't come close to his demands initially, then he got pissed off, Milan came in for him, and only then did Arsenal up their offer. if true it's very worrying.

They did that to Edu anyway. Wouldn't meet his demands until it was too late and he'd decided to leave. Pretty stupid alltogether. The club had the money to pay him, and decided he was worth it in the end, but had spent too many months dicking around and it cost them a player.

The negotiators at the club might need a bit of a slap if they did it with Flamini too.

jank

I think the issue here is the board. They need a kick up the arse and provide the funds for Wenger. This season is becoming a write off already unless its sorted out in the next few days. The squad is one of the weakest in the league.

OPENROAD

jank wrote: »

I think the issue here is the board. They need a kick up the arse and provide the funds for Wenger. This season is becoming a write off already unless its sorted out in the next few days. The squad is one of the weakest in the league.

The board and Arsene have both said that funds are available.

I think their is a bit of an overreaction to the Fulham result, I still expect we will make one more signing before the transfer deadline.

To say that our squad is one of the weakest in the league is madness imo.

Tusky

jank wrote: »

I think the issue here is the board. They need a kick up the arse and provide the funds for Wenger. This season is becoming a write off already unless its sorted out in the next few days. The squad is one of the weakest in the league.

Get a grip man. The season is 2 games old. The Champions League, Fa cup & Carling Cup haven't even begun yet.

And in regards to Arsenal one of the weakest squads in the league...I'm speechless. And I'm a Liverpool fan!

Galvasean

Weakest? Look at poor old Everton. No signings, lots of injuries.

AnCapaillMor

OPENROAD wrote: »

The board and Arsene have both said that funds are available.

We've heard that line for the past 3 years. I think the loss could be the best thing to happen to us, it will provide a necesary kick in the arse. same story as 99/00 our 1st 11 practically picks itself, when either vieira or petit were out we were screwed and we had a chance to sign hamman and we pulled out of it. I'vw no doubt in my ind we would've won the league that year. This year looks the same excep its just if cesc is out.

BTW Denilson is Berts legacy when he's good he's brilliant when he's bad he's very bad.

Galvasean

At least the womens team are doing well..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/women/7580186.stm

yahoo_moe

jank wrote: »

I think the issue here is the board. They need a kick up the arse and provide the funds for Wenger. This season is becoming a write off already unless its sorted out in the next few days. The squad is one of the weakest in the league.

The season is far from having to be written off and the Arsenal squad is far from being one of the weakest in the league - we're weak in certain areas, certainly, but that's judging the squad in terms of how capable they are of mounting a title challenge (a pretty high yardstick). Not performing in one match when a few players are injured or still coming back to full fitness doesn't make a squad of players instantly sh*t. Relax and get a grip.

DenMan

It looks like Wenger is removing the dead wood from Arsenal. Looking increasingly likely that Senderos is on his way to AC Milan (initially on loan) That is the first step towards getting our house in order. I liked him for a while and Wenger really stood by him, but he now knows you can't afford to have any weak links in your team if you want to be successfull. He captained us during pre season and looked set to be captain for the carling cup. Time to get things right methinks. What is it with AC Milan taking Arsenal players?

http://www.skysports.com/football/transfer_clockwatch/0,23710,14896,00.html

gandalf

Jesus jank its way too early to write the season off. Saturday was a bad result but they happen. I expect us to have a good season and hopefully Wenger gets at least one signing in before the deadline (a decent holding midfielder would be great).

Anyone know when Cesc is due back his absence is killing my fantasy football league team!

Villain

Wenger is a genius, Senderos to Milan and Silvestre in great change.

L'prof

In:
Vela
Ramsey
Bischoff
Nasri
Silvestre

Out:
Lehmann
Flamini
Hleb
Gilberto
Hoyte
Senderos?

So 5 in and 6 out, one less player than we had last year...I know some youth players will get more of a run, but that's just not good enough at all! Our squad was small last season and I was calling for more bodies then (up to 4), but that would mean signing 5 more players!

yahoo_moe

jasonorr wrote: »

In:
Vela
Ramsey
Bischoff
Nasri
Silvestre

Out:
Lehmann
Flamini
Hleb
Gilberto
Hoyte
Senderos?

Don't forget Djourou's back, having been gone last year and Song was away at the ANC...

Pepe LeFrits

Those in/out things are misleading because they don't take into account young players coming up. A lot of players who we already had last year have been promoted.

Mannone
Silvestre
Djourou
Song
Diaby
Nasri
Ramsey
Wilshere
Bischoff
Vela

What is of key importance is that we've lost two first teamers (Flamini & Hleb) and only brought one in (Nasri). The others we've lost were squad players and they've all been replaced.

keano_afc

Well I seem to remeber Wenger after the first leg against Twente saying he'd definitely have a midfielder in before the second leg. So we wait with baited breath for a new signing today! Or am i being unrealistic?

jank

keano_afc wrote: »

Well I seem to remeber Wenger after the first leg against Twente saying he'd definitely have a midfielder in before the second leg. So we wait with baited breath for a new signing today! Or am i being unrealistic?

Wenger always comes out with this type of $hit. We will have 3 new players here 2 players there, 30 million war kitty. etc
OK he likes to keep his cards close to his chest but Senderos's departure again is the wrong thing to do but the best thing for the player himself.

He was not as bad as he is made out to be. Still young and learning the trade.

Sorry to be so pesamistic but seriously why do we buy into the bull thats happening now. We should be raging hot title contenders not just gald to have Wenger, Cesc at our club and have a good youth setup and maybe sneak a trophy. Its clear that alot of peoples expectations for the club have dropped and that IMO is the sadest thing of all.

Wenger's job is first team manger and to win trophies for the club. If there are none at the end of this season then he should be called into the boardroom to explain himself. If needs be then move him upstairs to oversee the developement of football at the club and bring in first team manger willing to do the job.

Now I dont think for a minute that this will happen and I think the board are the real culprits here. Wenger will never say any against the board because he is a model pro that wont hang out his dirty linen but there is alot more then meets the eye here.

IMO the board are quite happy to have Wenger there for the next 10 years selling our best players bringing up more talent and selling them on. Breaking even in the transfers every year while using the MASSIVE profit the club generates to pay off the debt ASAP. Doing all this that while making it in the top 4 year in year out. If we sneak a trophy or two then thats a bonus.
Which is why wenger is priceless for us at the mo, but he has the potential to be so much more the this. We are not Spurs for **** sake!
That seems to be the strategy to me. We all remember that moving from highbury was a statement that we were going to challenge the big boys on and off the pitch, but it seems the board forgot its promise to its fans and the club.

Now lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater as chelsea are doing, fiscal responsibility must remain. Personally I think the Chelsea scenario will end in disaster for them not as bad as leeds but bad none the less but come on surely we could have paid flaimini a few k more a week, we wouldnt be in such a bad mess.

The season will pan out but I expect this season to be as bad or worse then the 2005-2006 season without the CL run. Fun times ahead!!
Maybe im overly pessamistic but maybe ill be proved right. I hope im wrong of course and this season is a success.

On that thoughts what will count as success for ye this season for Arsenal FC?

PHB

IMO the board are quite happy to have Wenger there for the next 10 years selling our best players bringing up more talent and selling them on. Breaking even in the transfers every year while using the MASSIVE profit the club generates to pay off the debt ASAP. Doing all this that while making it in the top 4 year in year out. If we sneak a trophy or two then thats a bonus.

I think thats bang on the money to be honest. But Arsenal are in a dodgy financial situation. Their interest needs to be paid off. At the same time, the board want to make a profit every year. The only way the club could give the transfer kitty the rest of the top 4 have is if they weren't going to make any profits, which I doubt they'd be happy about.

Wenger allows them to be able to stay in the top 4, challenge for some trophies, and if things go their way, they could well win it.
That said, I'd be shocked if Wenger doesn't have the funds availible to buy a DM, especially when one is so clearly needed. With it, Arsenal have a run-in which suits them perfectly for the league. Without it, they are dodgy.

yahoo_moe

PHB wrote: »

Arsenal are in a dodgy financial situation.

It's not that dodgy - pretty sure I read around the time that Edelman left that he'd renegotiated the loan terms so they didn't have to be paid back as quickly or something to that effect. They're also at predetermined interest rates as far as I know, and any figures I've seen floating around indicate that the increased gate receipts and development projects are going a long way towards covering the repayments.

jank wrote:

Senderos's departure again is the wrong thing to do but the best thing for the player himself.

You're right that Senderos wasn't as bad as is sometimes made out but I really don't agree with this. Last year, we loaned out Djourou (who I think a lot would agree is the better of the two) for PL experience and while things didn't go his way injury-wise at Birmingham or post-Christmas at Arsenal, we've got him back and fit. That, plus signing Silvestre, means I think it makes sense for the club to allow Senderos to go. With Song available to use at CB also, I don't see why we'd hang onto another player just so that people will see a bigger squad numbers-wise (not always the same as a better, stronger squad).

jank wrote:

what will count as success for ye this season for Arsenal FC?

So far, it's looking like we're yet again better equipped to give the Champions League a go than the PL. Which is a pity - not only would I love to be challenging for the League, but setting a side up for European success is a lot dodgier because the knock-out ties can turn on very small margins and decisions. Unless there's a big first team signing this week, I'd say success would be a CL run a la 2006 (maybe one better though). As of now, I wouldn't necessarily be expecting us to still be challenging for the League come the final 6 games... but I wouldn't have last year either, so here's hoping

PDN

jank wrote: »

On that thoughts what will count as success for ye this season for Arsenal FC?

At the beginning of the season I set a target for success of getting rid of Eboue and Senderos. Two games in and we're half way there already!

Indie18

PDN wrote: »

At the beginning of the season I set a target for success of getting rid of Eboue and Senderos. Two games in and we're half way there already!

couldn't agree more with you. what arsen wenger sees in eboue is beond me. to add to your comment should have got rid of adebayour when we had the chance trust me last season was a one off for him.

herbieflowers

My problem with Eboue is that he's a dirty player.

PDN

herbieflowers wrote: »

My problem with Eboue is that he's a dirty player.

Even worse, he's a dirty, diving, whining player. He could have the skills of a Pele and that would still not compensate for his abysmal personality.

Gangsta

Is the match tonight on tv at all? website says BBC3 but I jus saw their listing and no arsenal game :S?

DenMan

It's on tomorrow night. I heard BBC 3 are showing it live.

Pepe LeFrits

Unlikely, the game is on Wednesday.

Gangsta

oops:o thought it was wed:o

j14

herbieflowers wrote: »

My problem with Eboue is that he's a dirty player.

I remember reading somewhere that at this years Members Day Open Training session at the Emirates they were have a little 5 a side game with Pat Rice as ref.
Nordtviet put in a tackle on Eboue and he hit the ground like a sack of Spuds. Rolling all over the place, Rice let the game continue with Eboue in his final death throes.
Eventually Rice went over to him and pulled him up by the collar, not impressed.
Not one of the players paid any heed to him rolling around. They must be used to it.
Seriously though, who dives in training?

OPENROAD

PHB wrote: »

But Arsenal are in a dodgy financial situation. Their interest needs to be paid off. At the same time, the board want to make a profit every year. The only way the club could give the transfer kitty the rest of the top 4 have is if they weren't going to make any profits, which I doubt they'd be happy about.

Wenger allows them to be able to stay in the top 4, challenge for some trophies, and if things go their way, they could well win it.
That said, I'd be shocked if Wenger doesn't have the funds availible to buy a DM, especially when one is so clearly needed. With it, Arsenal have a run-in which suits them perfectly for the league. Without it, they are dodgy.

I have to take issue with your wording regarding the clubs finances. Firstly current debt relates to the stadium only and nothing else. The club successfully renegotiated a far more favourable interest rate and were able to increase the period of the loan. Our latest financial results show a healthy EXCESS cash figure. The stadium continues to deliver huge match day revenues. Highbury Square development revenue should start to come on stream in the next couple of months,apparently 93% of apartments are sold,hopefully despite the credit crunch the vast majority of these will actually buy.

What Arsenal probably do need to watch is their wage bills, that said our overall wage bill is relatively similar to utd and liverpool. What Arsene has always said is that the club will compete within its own financial means and will not go into debt for players. As a supporter I am very happy with this. I am much happier, and indeed there is a big difference that the club does not go into debt with big transfers with no guarantee of success and going into debt with the new stadium which has tripled our match day revenue. We have had one bad result and suddenly everyone is in a panic and saying that we need to bring in x number of players. I still feel we will bring on one more plyer before the deadline.

Royale with Cheese

Barry staying at Villa, means any feint hope of getting Alonso is probably gone now. Inler's agent has ruled out a move to Arsenal for him, for now.

Hoping Wenger pulls a cm out of somewhere in the next few days, seriously doubt it though.

yahoo_moe

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Hoping Wenger pulls a cm out of somewhere in the next few days, seriously doubt it though.

Don't mind about Alonso but Wenger seemed to really rate Inler which is good enough for me to be disappointed.

Might still get someone in but all the noises he's made in the last couple of days about not panic-buying would seem to suggest that there's nothing particularly likely.

Indie18

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Don't mind about Alonso but Wenger seemed to really rate Inler which is good enough for me to be disappointed.

Might still get someone in but all the noises he's made in the last couple of days about not panic-buying would seem to suggest that there's nothing particularly likely.

which is why i think wenger has lost the plot a little. seriously if he still thinks that the kids can do it and won't ever back down on it then it might be time to think about a change mof manager at arsenal. as unthinkable as it may sound i have been saying this for a couple of years now. i mean a blind man could see we are not going to win any thing this year.

Pepe LeFrits

What manager could win Arsenal the league? We simply don't have the resources of United or Chelsea.

The only reason we even have a squad that is within a couple of signings of those two is Wenger.

Indie18

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

What manager could win Arsenal the league? We simply don't have the resources of United or Chelsea.

The only reason we even have a squad that is within a couple of signings of those two is Wenger.

wenger who won't make those couple of signings to get there. i'm not saying he should go but if he is never going to go and sign experience and still try to win the league with players who are only out of nappies then when the chance ever comes about to get another quality manager then MAYBE it should be taken.

OPENROAD

I feel that the player he was going to sign was Alonso but this obviously depended on the Barry deal going through. I am just thinking that if Barry were to move in January we might sign Alonso then.

DenMan

It's a possibility alright, no doubt about it. Don't know if Wenger has ever taken anybody in January if they were cup tied and unable to play in Europe. May be wrong here and hopefully someone can confirm/deny this for me. He also seemed to have all his players available to him for both domestic and European football. He really wants to push for the Champions League this season and will need everybody at his disposal.

OPENROAD

DenMan wrote: »

It's a possibility alright, no doubt about it. Don't know if Wenger has ever taken anybody in January if they were cup tied and unable to play in Europe. May be wrong here and hopefully someone can confirm/deny this for me.

I might be wrong here but I think he is only cup tied for the group stages, so if the deal was done in January he could play in the champions league if we make it through the group stages.

Mossy Monk

I believe so. Essentially cup tied up until the January transfer window

Evil_Clown

Arsenal now been linked with Jonathan de Guzman from Feyenord by the sun.
He is a 'tough tackling midfielder'
I know it's the sun but I will take any sort of hope with regards to a signing at the moment.:rolleyes:

Pepe LeFrits

lol, tough tackling midfielder me hole (not directing this at you btw, but the papers). He's an attacking midfielder, similar to Nasri and the like. I'd be pleased if we signed him 'cos we could do with another creative midfielder, but he's no Flamini replacement.

Royale with Cheese

Arsenal
Porto
Fenerbahce
Dynamo Kiev

Could have been easier.

BobbyD10

Tricky is one word that comes to mind, long trips to eastern europe to return to premiership saturday. Still, your not in it you can't win it.

Gangsta

Don't like Kiev in there. Still, I fully expect us to finish at least 2nd in the group.

eZe^

Gangsta wrote: »

Don't like Kiev in there. Still, I fully expect us to finish at least 2nd in the group.

Pfft, shhh, Arsenal should definitely be aspiring to be topping this group. If you go in with the attitude of thinking you'll be 2nd you'll never win the cup! Although it does look funny to note that this year especially it may not really matter if you qualify 1st or 2nd..