Arsenal Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Quazzie

Denilson will NEVER be as good as Cesc. It's really unfortunate that Arsenal's future lies with Cesc. He is such an important part of it because he is both the present and the future. If we lost Cesc it is just further evidence (if any is even needed) that Arsenal cannot hold onto their top players. A reputation of creating good players then selling them when they get good is a very bad thing to have. Look at West Ham if ya need an example. Losing Cesc would have a more detremental effect than losing any of the others (Overmars, Vieira, Pires, Henry, Hleb, Flamini). All players that stated they wanted to leave and who we surrendered to. The difference this time is for each of them we always had someone lined up to replace them. I don't think we can replace Cesc. He represents all that is good about this club. Losing him might just disprove the theory of youth development, and therefore negate Arsenal's whole philosophy.

leninbenjamin

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Losing him might just disprove the theory of youth development

no it doesn't, it just means you have to do more to hold onto you're best players.

Quazzie

leninbenjamin wrote: »

no it doesn't, it just means you have to do more to hold onto you're best players.

Like win trophies? If we can't do that then I think we will lose Cesc. It is currently October 8th and we are already out of the running for the PL (not mathematically but realistically). Our main hope is the Champions League and to win that it seems we have to hope someone else knocks out the other PL teams in it. We have plenty of prospects with the potential to be a really great team, but losing Cesc might just set a precedence for other members of our youthful future, and thats where it turns tragic. One player does not make a team, and never will, but we really need to stop the outflux of great talant from our club. Other players that left were always sold at their peak or just after it, and therefore its always been kind of justified selling them, but Cesc is not in this category. Selling him would be the first player we sold that we knew was going to get better after he leaves. And thats whats scary. Its not only that we are making ourselves weaker but we are making other teams stronger. We are too big a club to be a feeder club for Europes elite.

leninbenjamin

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Like win trophies? If we can't do that then I think we will lose Cesc. It is currently October 8th and we are already out of the running for the PL (not mathematically but realistically). Our main hope is the Champions League and to win that it seems we have to hope someone else knocks out the other PL teams in it. We have plenty of prospects with the potential to be a really great team, but losing Cesc might just set a precedence for other members of our youthful future, and thats where it turns tragic. One player does not make a team, and never will, but we really need to stop the outflux of great talant from our club. Other players that left were always sold at their peak or just after it, and therefore its always been kind of justified selling them, but Cesc is not in this category. Selling him would be the first player we sold that we knew was going to get better after he leaves. And thats whats scary. Its not only that we are making ourselves weaker but we are making other teams stronger. We are too big a club to be a feeder club for Europes elite.

if you look at the Flamini situation though, it was just a major f*ckup by the club. by all accounts he was initially offered a fraction of what a first team regular could expect. it was only when it became apparent that he was leaving for Milan that Arsenal finally upped their offer to match his demands. i mean that kind of crap would have anyone wanting the door. of late it seems to be just this basic man management where the club are messing up on.... i mean the Adebaor situation is then the direct flip of this. caved into his demands even though he didn't really deserve it... Wenger is going to have to ask some tough questions of himself i think. forget the trophies, if you can't get your man management right at this level then you might as well pack it in.

yahoo_moe

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Our main hope is the Champions League and to win that it seems we have to hope someone else knocks out the other PL teams in it.

Yeah because we could never possibly hope to beat another Premier League team ever :rolleyes:

leninbenjamin wrote:

Wenger is going to have to ask some tough questions of himself i think. forget the trophies, if you can't get your man management right at this level then you might as well pack it in.

I don't think that's entirely fair - everything hasn't gone perfectly but he's wanted help (seemingly Grimandi in a more senior role) for some time now and he has yet to get it.

leninbenjamin

yahoo_moe wrote: »

I don't think that's entirely fair - everything hasn't gone perfectly but he's wanted help (seemingly Grimandi in a more senior role) for some time now and he has yet to get it.

and he's yet to get it because it's up to him to hire whoever comes in. it's nigh on, what, 18 months now? it's just too easy to give excuses...

L'prof

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Our main hope is the Champions League and to win that it seems we have to hope someone else knocks out the other PL teams in it.

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Yeah because we could never possibly hope to beat another Premier League team ever :rolleyes:

I think he's right in the fact that the Champons league is our only hope of silverware this season though, don't you? The only way, for me, that we can get the league back on track is by beating 2 out of United, Liverpool, Chelsea the first time we play them and that's a tall order! As for hoping we don't face Premiership teams in the Champions League, that's a bit harsh. I think we were very unlucky last season (and against Chelsea that year...Wayne Bridge :mad:) and I'm hoping that this season we can knock and English team out!

Galvasean

Sky Sports News wrote:

Indeed his only medal in the last three years has come with Spain - who he helped to the Euro 2008 title in the summer.

Erm, didn't Cesc get a Champions League silver in 2006 and Carling Cup silver in 2007?

L'prof

Galvasean wrote: »

Erm, didn't Cesc get a Champions League silver in 2006 and Carling Cup silver in 2007?

Yeah, but the only medal anyone cares about is a winners medal!

Dont Ban Me

Appently Aaron Ramsey is as talented at his age as Cesc was too!! Apparently, lets hope so and that he gets his chance in the team, with only Song and Denilson in front of him the competition aint that great!

yahoo_moe

leninbenjamin wrote: »

and he's yet to get it because it's up to him to hire whoever comes in. it's nigh on, what, 18 months now? it's just too easy to give excuses...

Maybe - but as I understood it, Arsene wanted Grimandi to come in in a purely football role but the board wanted some kind of combined role or something.

But I can't really remember how I thought it was going before Edelman's departure so I could just have it arseways.

Galvasean

A few of the young guns on way out:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/n/nottm_forest/7649361.stm

Pepe LeFrits

Rene Steer will also be leaving shortly.

Galvasean

I wonder will any of those Arsenal-Forrest players pplay against ireland B tomorrow..

Evil_Clown

It looks like the old International curse is back for another bout of arsenal crippling

Both van Persie and Gallas are out of their matches but the injuries do not seem that serious so hopefully ...........

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/08102008/1/van-persie-iceland-game.html

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/08/10/09/SOCCER_France.html&TEAMHD=soccer

Frisbee

Wouldnt mind both of them missing the first game back with Arsenal tbh.
Means Bendtner/Vela and Djourou could get a much needed start...

Evil_Clown

Frisbee wrote: »

Wouldnt mind both of them missing the first game back with Arsenal tbh.
Means Bendtner/Vela and Djourou could get a much needed start...

Maybe Gallas missing 1 or 2 games would be possibly a good thing(give Djourou a chance), but I think van persie is playing much better than Ade at the moment and I would rather see a van persie / Bendtner combination up front

Galvasean

Wouldn't mind seeing Ade miss a game or two. His performances havent been as good as they should be and he has that look of "I'm indispensable" about him.

Galvasean

Anyone catch the England legends v Arsenal legends game on Setanta yesterday?
We were pretty well represented. For Ireland there was Frank Stapleton, Niall Quinn and Eddie McGoldrick.
For england Paul Merson, Nigel Winterburn, Ray Parlour and David Platt.

OPENROAD

Galvasean wrote: »

Anyone catch the England legends v Arsenal legends game on Setanta yesterday?
We were pretty well represented. For Ireland there was Frank Stapleton, Niall Quinn and Eddie McGoldrick.
For england Paul Merson, Nigel Winterburn, Ray Parlour and David Platt.

Yup, was pretty good seeing the likes of Merse Winterburn and Parlour playing again,I celebrated Winterburns winning penalty like an Arsenal goal brilliant.

Galvasean

Galvasean wrote: »

Anyone catch the England legends v Arsenal legends game on Setanta yesterday?
We were pretty well represented. For Ireland there was Frank Stapleton, Niall Quinn and Eddie McGoldrick.
For england Paul Merson, Nigel Winterburn, Ray Parlour and David Platt.

(off topic) these games are played in fantastic spirit imo. the spirit the game of football should be played in. barry fry is a thoroughly wonderful character and the last of his kind currently involved in the game.

merse/and parlour after putting on a few pounds but winterburn don't look as bad.

gallas being dropped wont do the team a bit of harm as he is muck these days. completly going missing for corners. toure not much better. i cant understand why djourou was dropped in the first place when you consider they kept 2 clean sheets the first two games when he played v wba and twente.

Galvasean

The question is will Wenger opt for Djourou or try out Silvestre?

OPENROAD

Galvasean wrote: »

The question is will Wenger opt for Djourou or try out Silvestre?

I have a feeling he will go for Silvestre, would like him to anyway.

Frisbee

Evil_Clown wrote: »

Maybe Gallas missing 1 or 2 games would be possibly a good thing(give Djourou a chance), but I think van persie is playing much better than Ade at the moment and I would rather see a van persie / Bendtner combination up front

Yeah RVP is playing better, but you just know Ade is gonna be awkward and not get injured all season...

estebancambias

Arsenal are heavily keeping tracks on James McCarthy apparently. Probably will cost more than Ramsey though so I'm not sure if it will happen. I'd say Bayern Munich or Barca is more likely or perhaps an upper-mid table team where he can use as a launching pad.

eZe^

Apologies about Hleb asking Fabregas to join him at Barca, it was a little embarassing. I wouldn't worry about it anyway, Fabregas is the last player Barca need when they have Iniesta and Xavi...

OPENROAD

estebancambias wrote: »

Arsenal are heavily keeping tracks on James McCarthy apparently. Probably will cost more than Ramsey though so I'm not sure if it will happen. I'd say Bayern Munich or Barca is more likely or perhaps an upper-mid table team where he can use as a launching pad.

What source? Why would you say he could go to Barcelona? Is he that good?

estebancambias

He's NOT Lionel Messi style good. But he has great football intelligence. He probably has the same style as Ramsey so it comes down to which one nurtures their ability and progesses the best. He is the real deal. Liverpool offered 1 million for him which I'm not sure if he refused himself saying he wasn't ready to move on.

http://www.premiershiplatest.com/news/liverpool-boss-benitez-impressed-with-16-55824.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/h/hamilton_academical/6638285.stm

Barcelona according to his manager Billy Reid have wanted to take him over ever since they first got news of him.

Palermo apparently offered 6 million pounds during the summer for him.

Of course with anything a player of his age could only just be potential but at this time he's got a hell of a lot of potential.

I could actually see him being very like Esteban Cambiasso. I seen him play German for Ireland u-17's I think and he was by far the most composed player on the pitch, got two as well in a victory.

eZe^

estebancambias wrote: »

Esteban Cambiasso

You-Esteban Cambiasso style, or Esteban Cambiasso-Esteban Cambiasso style? :pac::pac:

Galvasean

I suppose its only natural that any great young prospect would be linked with us.
Would be nice to have a green gunner once again. (a good one)

estebancambias

there is only one esteban cambiasso style eze.

eZe^

estebancambias wrote: »

there is only one esteban cambiasso style eze.

I forgot! He's biting your style isn't he? :pac:

OPENROAD

Galvasean wrote: »

I suppose its only natural that any great young prospect would be linked with us.
Would be nice to have a green gunner once again. (a good one)

Is he not thinking of playing for Scotland?

estebancambias

Galvasean wrote: »

I suppose its only natural that any great young prospect would be linked with us.
Would be nice to have a green gunner once again. (a good one)

I honestly thought Stokes would make it. I also thought he would be a lot better than what he has shown in his career to date so far, although 14 goals in 14 in a professional league whatever level for a midtable club at 18 is an amazing statistic.

estebancambias

OPENROAD wrote: »

Is he not thinking of playing for Scotland?

Thankfully not. Well he rejected their callup.

I forgot! He's biting your style isn't he?

Yes. Yes he is.

Galvasean

estebancambias wrote: »

I honestly thought Stokes would make it. I also thought he would be a lot better than what he has shown in his career to date so far,

Yeah I was expecting him to make a big impact in Arsenal's CC team a few years back. Just never really happened for the guy. I still think he'll get into the Ireland set up but not as a first choice or anything.

OPENROAD

estebancambias wrote: »

I honestly thought Stokes would make it.

Never struck me as an Arsenal player, even when he went out on loan, I thought the best he could hope for is making the bench, what he has done since suggests Arsene was spot on,thought he would have played more for Sunderland.

estebancambias

Apparently he has a really bad mindset which obviously played a part in his lack of progress.

thread from a few years back.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054850765

OPENROAD

estebancambias wrote: »

Apparently he has a really bad mindset which obviously played a part in his lack of progress.

thread from a few years back.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054850765

Do you think he will make it at Sunderland? Or should he drop down to championship, get his game and try and get a good scoring run.

estebancambias

eh honestly i dont know where he can go from now in his career. He is very smart and has a good first touch but he just lacks something I think to succeed in EPL(high level). I watched him last Thursday for Ireland in the B game and while at times he looked very good(which you'd expect against a nothing team) he just lacked that something.


If I was him I would try get my agent to look at clubs in Spain and Italy and look to make a stab at it there like Pongolle did when he left liverpool.

leninbenjamin

he wont make it. he's been given more than enough opportunities, and apart from the odd glimmer he hasn't really taken them.

estebancambias

well he could be a late bloomer.

WOW hes only just gone 20.:eek: I would have thought he was approaching 22 by now.

must have been younger than everyone else on the shels team.

Galvasean

I see Adebayor got 4 goals for Togo against Swaziland. He loves it when the goings easy.

Frisbee

estebancambias wrote: »

Apparently he has a really bad mindset

He does. I was in the guys class up until Junior Cert when he left school.
'Grade A Douchebag' would be the nicest term I could think of to describe him.
He'll be another Clinton Morisson or David Connolly I reckon. Championship hero but wont cut it in the big time...

Arsenal1986

seems like miraculously Robbie van Persie has managed to not injure himself too badly anwill probably play for holland tomorrow....when of course he will horribly injure himself presumably......Quick question where do people see Eduardo fitting in when he gets back?Immediate 3rd choice striker or has Bendtner done enough at this stage to hold on to that

Frisbee

On the strikers current form if Eduardo gets back into the form he was in he should push Ade out of the starting line up with the way he's been playing.
A rotation between Abe/RVP/Eduardo/Bendtner will be the most likely with Ade and RVP getting the nod as starters the majority of the time

Arsenal1986

thats what i was thinking myself....we've such unbelievable quality up front outside the top 4 all 5 of our strikers would walk into any Priemership team now if only we'd that kind of depth in quality for centre mid

yahoo_moe

Frisbee wrote: »

On the strikers current form if Eduardo gets back into the form he was in he should push Ade out of the starting line up with the way he's been playing.

Apart from the fact that it will presumably take Eduardo time to get back into that kind of form (and rekindle his understanding with the other players), he does a completely different job for the team. In open play, Adebayor offers a lot more than Eduardo (and gives defenders a very different challenge) so I don't think you'll see Eduardo taking his place anytime soon.

Frisbee

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Apart from the fact that it will presumably take Eduardo time to get back into that kind of form (and rekindle his understanding with the other players), he does a completely different job for the team. In open play, Adebayor offers a lot more than Eduardo (and gives defenders a very different challenge) so I don't think you'll see Eduardo taking his place anytime soon.

Thats why I said if you were to do it by Ade's current form and if Eduardo can recapture the form he was in.
In that case Eduardo would be a no-brainer.
Obviously they offer different roles to the team

Im_No_Superman

Ramsey has scored a beauty and has set up Wales second goal. He really is going to be a top top player imo. Just adds to the dissapointment that ye got him ahead of United.