Aston Villa Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

invincibleirish

JPA wrote: »

What? Villa have been completely outspending their income. Where do you think the money has been coming from? You are ignoring wages and other costs.

Well what i meant by that and my interpretation of Krulaks comments is that Lerner has allocated the TV money to MON for transfers, he isn't cashing in his assets to pay for players, but he will do for the right £30m player.

Helix

JPA wrote: »

Why would it be lower?

his signings havent exactly delivered

the chairman is hardly going to have the same enthusiasm with regard to giving him tens of millions to spend this time around after half the players he bought last season didnt work

JPA

Helix wrote: »

his signings havent exactly delivered

the chairman is hardly going to have the same enthusiasm with regard to giving him tens of millions to spend this time around after half the players he bought last season didnt work

Well you don't throw players away after a season do you?

Neil3030

Guys Lerner will bankroll MON with as much money as he would another manager or he'll sack him. Not only would it be counter-intuitive, it'd be suicidal to Villa's progress to not bankroll the manager out of a lack of confidence. Lerner knows that if Villa don't spend this summer we will see our progress reverse on us, which will require another rebuild - why in God's name would he let that happen?

He either:

(a) doesn't have the money
(b) has the money and will give it to MON
or
(c) will sack MON and give the money to a new manager.

Helix

you most certainly dont, nor to you keep throwing millions of pounds at a manager who has yet to prove he can actually deliver in that respect

we'll see a modest summer at best, if the signings from last year start to improve and the manager can bring in some successes with his few quid then we'll see more money being put into it next year

as mon says, the club is being run as a business now, so the chairman isnt going to be frivilous

Helix

Neil3030 wrote: »

Guys Lerner will bankroll MON with as much money as he would another manager or he'll sack him. Not only would it be counter-intuitive, it'd be suicidal to Villa's progress to not bankroll the manager out of a lack of confidence. Lerner knows that if Villa don't spend this summer we will see our progress reverse on us, which will require another rebuild - why in God's name would he let that happen?

He either:

(a) doesn't have the money
(b) has the money and will give it to MON
or
(c) will sack MON and give the money to a new manager.

d) isnt 100% sure of mons transfer policy but still wants him at the club, so will give him a reasonable, but fairly modest, war chest this summer and see how things go from there

Bounty Hunter

Helix wrote: »

d) isnt 100% sure of mons transfer policy but still wants him at the club, so will give him a reasonable, but fairly modest, war chest this summer and see how things go from there

Personally i cant see any way of Villa not spending big this summer unless we want no improvement at all especially when you consider how much it would cost if we have to replace or captain and vice captain with hopefully players of a similar high standard.

if i had to guess right now id say Defour is a possible Barry replacement and apart from at RB/the wings we have all our squad players so would now expect a few Milner esque MON signings instead of the poorer ones some might highlight.

Helix

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Personally i cant see any way of Villa not spending big this summer unless we want no improvement at all

i would imagine youre going to be a very disappointed bunny come september 1st

invincibleirish

Yeah there will be money, but should be interesting to see who he goes for. Unlike last summer its a case of quality over quantity this time round.

Neil3030

Well I'm sorry but if, after 3 years, Lerner still has reservations about MON and won't bankroll him to the full amount to keep the club progressing then it says as much about his inadequacies as it does MON's. As the chairman of the club it's his responsibility to hire the right guy who he wants to give the funding to. The club is the one who suffers at the end of the day if he hasn't got the savvy to hire a manager who he trusts with the full extent of his financing.

JPA

Neil3030 wrote: »

Well I'm sorry but if, after 3 years, Lerner still has reservations about MON and won't bankroll him to the full amount to keep the club progressing then it says as much about his inadequacies as it does MON's. As the chairman of the club it's his responsibility to hire the right guy who he wants to give the funding to. The club is the one who suffers at the end of the day if he hasn't got the savvy to hire a manager who he trusts with the full extent of his financing.

Well this is just Helixs opinion the situation. We have progressed this season. Anyone can see that. Patience is what is needed. there is no quick immediate fixes.

Helix

Neil3030 wrote: »

Well I'm sorry but if, after 3 years, Lerner still has reservations about MON and won't bankroll him to the full amount to keep the club progressing then it says as much about his inadequacies as it does MON's

he didnt have any reservations last year or the year before, im just suggesting that i think he may well this time

all this stuff coming out of the club about it being run like a business suggests that the chairman isnt prepared to bankroll the manager this summer the same way he did last year

perhaps mon told him that a big spend last summer was all he needed for the major rebuild, and then every summer thereafter would be one or 2 players and the chairman is holding him to that

either way, we wont be in the top 5 spenders in the world again this summer

Helix

JPA wrote: »

Well this is just Helixs opinion the situation. We have progressed this season. Anyone can see that. Patience is what is needed. there is no quick immediate fixes.

unless we win both our remaining home games itll be our worst home record of all time

thats not really progress

wynters

JPA wrote: »

Do Liverpool still want Barry? They're the only team he could join I would think.

Well Benitez definitely wants to keep Alonso anyway... http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12876_5198469,00.html

Mr Alan

Alonso staying does not mean we'd have no interest in Barry imo. Especially at the lower price this year.

wynters

Helix wrote: »

unless we win both our remaining home games itll be our worst home record of all time

thats not really progress

If the league table was based on home wins then Man City would be 2nd now!

Kinetic^

Liverpool & Chelsea wins in the next 2 days will do us a few favours, at least till the weekend.

Helix

wynters wrote: »

If the league table was based on home wins then Man City would be 2nd now!

decent teams should have decent home records, but for our phenomenal away run we'd be in for a worrying last month

shoutman

Helix, I'm guessing that you would prefere to have a phenomenal home record and a sh1t away record.

Helix

shoutman wrote: »

Helix, I'm guessing that you would prefere to have a phenomenal home record and a sh1t away record.

definitely, you can build on that. a great away record cant be relied on like a great home one

also, game over martin laursen

Aston Villa captain Martin Laursen hit by new injury blow

Aston Villa are reeling from the news their club captain Martin Laursen could be out for up to nine months.

The Danish defender needs another knee operation and spent the weekend agonising over his future in his homeland. Laursen, 31, has played just once this year after his problems flared up again before Christmas.

His absence has coincided with Villa slipping out of Champions League contention. And now medical reports confirm that Laursen must go under the knife if he is to play again.

It is a devastating blow to both Villa and Laursen, who has already had three knee operations since arriving from AC Milan in 2004 for £3million. Renowned American Dr Richard Steadman saved Laursen's career in 2005.

And this time Villa boss Martin O'Neill even gave Laursen the option of calling it a day. But Laursen, who retired from international football in January, is launching one last effort to salvage his career after returning to Villa yesterday.

Laursen is now pencilled in for surgery next month and faces six to nine months on the sidelines. The timing could not be worse for fifth-placed Villa, who have not won in 11 games and have failed to keep a single clean sheet, conceding 25 goals.

O'Neill is expected to confirm Laursen's diagnosis today as he tries to rally his squad for the last five games of the season. Fellow defender Luke Young admits Laursen's absence has been a crucial factor in Villa's slump. Young, 29, said: "Martin has been a big loss for us.

He is one of those players, a little bit like a magnet in both penalty boxes. "He wins everything when we are defending then goes up the other end and scores vital goals. "It relieves so much pressure when you see him going up and winning everything in the air.

He is a big loss to us and fingers crossed he can get back. "But when you've got problems with your knees, you can't rush things. "You have to make sure you are 100 per cent right and hopefully he can get himself right and we will see the best of him again."

Villa striker Marlon Harewood, 29, is set to return to the club once his loan at Wolves expires. Harewood will stay at promoted Wanderers for their final two games then go back to Villa Park for the last three Premier League matches.

V1llianous

Helix wrote: »

definitely, you can build on that. a great away record cant be relied on like a great home one

also, game over martin laursen

Linky ?

Helix

V1llianous wrote: »

Linky ?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2009/04/21/villa-hit-by-new-laursen-ko-blow-115875-21294084/

death1234567

A Sad loss. Laursen is a villa legend. Career over.

JPA

Poor fella.

Helix

ah it was coming, its been no great secret

this isnt even the end of it. first it was a few weeks, then it was "setbacks", now its out for 9 months, by august he'll have his retirement confirmed i would suspect

its just a way of breaking the news more easily

now, lets get a certain bearded swede in as his replacement

JPA

Keep dreaming if you think Mellberg is gonna come back.

Savman

Considering his knees were the worst kept secret in football, it's poxy that MON & co. didn't have some kind of contingency in place for when the inevitable layoff came.
We're left with Knight, Davies and Cuellar. You'd have to really wonder whether any of those 3 players would get a game in any Top PL side. Probably not, if we're brutally honest.

Anyhoo, sounds like Laursen wants to give it every chance before he calls it and that's fine by me.

invincibleirish

*sigh* poor old Laursen, if he comes back from this fair play but MON needs a replacement & quickly, offer Fulham Knight & cash for Hangeland.

rgiller

invincibleirish wrote: »

*sigh* poor old Laursen, if he comes back from this fair play but MON needs a replacement & quickly, offer Fulham Knight & cash for Hangeland.

Or we could just offer them less cash and leave Knight out of it

matrim

It really is a pity about Laursen. Hopefully even it he doesn't come back we take him on as a coach to teach the others to defend properly

I'd like to see us make a bid for Lescott as I think he'd be a great replacement for Laursen

JPA

A lot of people suggest Lescott but it's just not possible is it?

It would be more or less a sideways step and while Everton don't have that much cash they aren't in too much debt either.
Ignoring the other rumours about why he can't return to Birmingham.

wynters

JPA wrote: »

A lot of people suggest Lescott but it's just not possible is it?

It would be more or less a sideways step and while Everton don't have that much cash they aren't in too much debt either.
Ignoring the other rumours about why he can't return to Birmingham.

I've heard those rumours about him shagging some gangsters bird when he was at Wolves are bollocks? Fictions of BC fans???

PHB

Hangeland would be a huge coup for Villa, I suspect that the top 4, particuarly Arsenal, will be looking at him.

Mr Alan

wouldnt be surprised if we had an interest in Hangeland too. Especially with Hypia being a year older & Agger looking increasingly likely to be heading for the door.

Helix

JPA wrote: »

Keep dreaming if you think Mellberg is gonna come back.

ah i dunno, hes not a regular over in italy and he might answer our call of desperation

Esse85

Mr Alan wrote: »

wouldnt be surprised if we had an interest in Hangeland too. Especially with Hypia being a year older & Agger looking increasingly likely to be heading for the door.

Why did you post this in a villa thread?

We dont care about Liverpool here.

mirwillbeback

Esse85 wrote: »

Why did you post this in a villa thread?

We dont care about Liverpool here.

Because, despite my requests to mods to look at the likes of Mr Alan and X in the City, they seem more fascinated with Villa than their own clubs, and seem to like to grace us with their continuous patronising posts.
:mad:

Neil3030

What's patronising about expressing a likewise interest in a player brought up in this thread as a potential Villa target?

rgiller

Neil3030 wrote: »

What's patronising about expressing a likewise interest in a player brought up in this thread as a potential Villa target?

I'm pretty sure he's not talking about this one particular post. It's more a constant, tedious nagging with a tinge of contempt and, as you know, can get very tiresome

MementoMori

Laursen is a big loss for nine months, especially after losing Mellberg last season.

Seeing as there has been talk of the squad/summer signings/how good bad MON is in the transfer market etc I've been looking at the Villa squad and what they cost. [The prices are the best I could find and I'm open to correction on all but I do think they give a good indication of what MON has spent and what kind of state the squad is in.]

Brad Friedel £2.5m
Brad Guzan £600k
Martin Laursen £3m
Luke Young £5.5m
Wilfred Bouma £3.5m
Curtis Davies £10m
Zat Knight £2m
Nicky Shorey £3m
Carlos Cuéllar £7.8m
Gareth Barry £1m (really not sure about this)
James Milner £12m
Moustapha Salifou Free
Steve Sidwell £5m
Stiliyan Petrov £6.5m
Nigel Reo-Coker £8.5m
Ashley Young £8m
John Carew Swap with Baros
Gabriel Agbonlahor Youth
Nathan Delfouneso Youth
Emile Heskey £3.5m
Marlon Harewood £4m
Craig Gardner Youth
Stephen O'Halloran Youth
Eric Lichaj Youth
Marc Albrighton Youth
Ciaran Clark Youth
Nathan Baker Youth
Chris Herd Youth
Shane Lowry Youth

Total £90.4m

A couple of things jump out
-MON really really doesn't like buying from outside the PL - as a result there are a number of players who look like they have a bit of a PL tax. Maybe he is willing to pay this premium for their experience but it does mean that there is very little chance of picking up a massive bargain. Sure he has had a number of good buys but no absolute gem. The best value he probably got is Carew for Baros which just screams of a steal. Young at £8m was very good value but it was still £8m which isn't exactly cheap.
- I had a look at the other squads for the "top 4" and the three of Spurs and Man City.[Spurs, Everton and City are in because of two factors - the money they've spent and the fact that there are more than likely to be in with a shout of breaking into the top four next season. Others may be saying they are looking to break the top four but I figure those 3 plus Villa are the ones who are genuine possibles] Check Wikipedia to see the various squads
- By my reckoning the various squads cost the following (all approximate but I reckon they give a good general idea of what kind of state the playing pitch is in)

Utd £223m
Liverpool £126
Chelsea £216m
Arsenal £91m
Spurs £193m
Man City £166m
Everton £64m

Looking at the squads of those teams, it is argueable that it's between Everton and Villa in terms of who has the weakest overall squad. It's hard to say for certain but when you compare the players outside the first eleven/eighteen in the various squads it becomes clearer. People might say I'm crazy to say Spurs and Man City have stronger squads than Villa and Everton given their respective positions in the league but I think this is down to the fact that a lot of the Spurs and City players have had poor seasons, as well as the fact that their has been turmoil at the clubs plus the fact that there isn't a massive gap between the squads in terms of best eleven/eighteen but that the gap is outside this. When you look at the squads and compare the players who would be falling into positions 20 to 30 in the squads, the differences in quality quickly become apparent.

If you are an English team in Europe you are can easily play 50 games in a season without achieving all that much.
League 38 + Fa Cup 3 + Carling Cup 3 = 44
Europe - either group stages of UEFA or Champions League = 6 games
That's 50 games without really having any big success. Progress further in any of the cup competitions and you are looking at more games (also these would tend to be pretty important games in terms of looking for silverware)
As such you need to have a squad that be able to compete on this level. Looking at this squad it just doesn't look to have that kind of strength and depth necessary to compete at this level.

However on the plus side looking at the squad I do think that Villa are unlikely to lose that many of their first eighteen this summer. The two big players whose future is most up-in-the-air are Barry and Laursen, which even if they were lost to the squad while it would be bad news wouldn't be a massive disaster, especially when you consider how much Laursen has actually played this season.

Beyond them the following players all fall into the likely to stay camp
- Brad Friedel, Brad Guzan , Luke Young, Wilfred Bouma, Curtis Davies, Zat Knight, Nicky Shorey, Carlos Cuéllar, James Milner , Steve Sidwell, Stiliyan Petrov, Nigel Reo-Coker, Ashley Young, John Carew, Gabriel Agbonlahor, Nathan Delfouneso , Emile Heskey, Craig Gardner

Some of them are obviously far more likely to stay than others i.e Petrov just signed a three year contract so I can't see any situation where he would move. There are others who there are likely to be transfer rumours around e.g. Young, Carew, Gabby, but I really can't see MON losing any of the players on the cheap and I wouldn't be surprised if pretty much all of these players were at Villa Park next season. Also I think Harewood and Salifou are likely to be on the way. I may not be spot on with all of the outs but what I'm basically saying is that I don't really see an exodus of players in the summer and that most likely the players who do leave aren't going to be the better players (Barry and Laursen apart) As such it means if MON does buy even a reasonable number of players, (apart from the Barry and Laursen situations) it will mean that the overall squad strength is deepened.

This post got massively out of hand - off for a lie-down now. May ramble more on later

wynters

Tabloid linking us with Lescott already.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2009/04/22/aston-villa-want-everton-s-joleon-lescott-as-martin-laursen-replacement-115875-21295826/

Unfounded speculation of course, but if it's a story that grows legs over the coming month or two it would be no bad thing...!

shoutman

Lescott was a Villa fan growing up, I'm sure he would of dreamt of playing for his favourite club.

Neil3030

The only thing I could see working in our favour on the Lescott front is that he only has 12 months remaining on his contract. Other than that there's no reason for Everton to sell him. I really don't buy the "wants to be closer to home" stuff. I've been to Birmingham. It's a hole.

Savman

Neil3030 wrote: »

I've been to Birmingham. It's a hole.

Never been to Liverpool then :pac:

Neil3030

I have actually. No great shakes but I'd prefer it to brum prob as a city.

mirwillbeback

Neil3030 wrote: »

I have actually. No great shakes but I'd prefer it to brum prob as a city.

+1

Birmingham is worst city I've ever been in.

Sods law to be a Villa fan

invincibleirish

Brums an alright town, has its nice bits and ****holes, but the whole Midlands conurbation is a neverending sprawl of motorways, housing developments, brownfield sites & shopping centres. Would have thought our Dublin based posters would have felt strangely at home;).

Helix

Neil3030 wrote: »

Guys Lerner will bankroll MON with as much money as he would another manager or he'll sack him. Not only would it be counter-intuitive, it'd be suicidal to Villa's progress to not bankroll the manager out of a lack of confidence. Lerner knows that if Villa don't spend this summer we will see our progress reverse on us, which will require another rebuild - why in God's name would he let that happen?

He either:

(a) doesn't have the money
(b) has the money and will give it to MON
or
(c) will sack MON and give the money to a new manager.

mirror reporting our transfer kitty is a whopping £10m for the summer

cant say im shocked

Bounty Hunter

Helix wrote: »

mirror reporting our transfer kitty is a whopping £10m for the summer

cant say im shocked

im not shocked either afterall it isnt that odd for info in a story from the Mirror to be 100% fabricated bullplop.

We should be spending that amount replacing either Laursen or Barry should either not be playing for Villa again not to mention any other activity, it is not our transfer kitty nor do i believe at this moment that we even have a set Summer transfer kitty.

JPA

Helix wrote: »

mirror reporting our transfer kitty is a whopping £10m for the summer

cant say im shocked

I'm shocked you take what the Mirror says seriously for a second.