Aston Villa Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

shoutman

What signature did I remove?

I just think its crazy people calling for MON's head (and don't say that people aren't) when there is no one available to replace him who will do a better job then he has done to date.

Villain

lol I've gone off this thread, who in the name of god would we get to manage us that is better than MON??

FFS 5th or 6th is a great improvment

Esse85

shoutman wrote: »

What signature did I remove?

I just think its crazy people calling for MON's head (and don't say that people aren't) when there is no one available to replace him who will do a better job then he has done to date.

Did you not have as your signature?

"In MON, we trust"

If not my mistake.

12 without a win, with all the money he spent, people are entitled to ask questions. There's no need for you to keep suggesting would we rather Avran Grant, if a replacement was needed then there would be lot more available applicants than just Avran Grant in the summer.

Esse85

Villain wrote: »

lol I've gone off this thread, who in the name of god would we get to manage us that is better than MON??

FFS 5th or 6th is a great improvment

6th would be the same as last year, hardly a great finish when you consider the money wasted to get there.

Helix

shoutman wrote: »

I'm pretty frustrated at the people who say that we need to replace him because we are doing so poorly at the moment. He still has us in a position that we would of been happy with preseason. No one is happy that we are here now but I'd still prefere MON then Avran f%$king Grant.

avram grant, the man who had chelsea playing well... something mourinho at the end of his tenure and phil scolari couldnt do. the man who got them to the european cup final and only failed to take the trophy home because the captain slipped while taking a penalty

our current run of results has very little to do with my opinion on o'neill. the performances are much the same as they were when we were getting results... ie dreadful for the most part

Helix

a post i made on villa talk is pretty relevant to my point here:

how it works is that we've been pretty **** all season. we went through a run where we were getting results, now were going through a run where we arent. but the performances themselves arent all that different when you look back on them

Manchester City W 4-2: great 15 minutes from gabby, defensive frailties showed, decent performance all round but the scoreline glossed over issues that would haunt us all season

Stoke City L 3-2: inability to deal with barrage of long balls and throws into the box cost us big time. not a shocking performance, but below par

Liverpool D 0-0: liverpool never showed up, their main threat went off injured and we had NOTHING about us to break them down

Tottenham Hotspur W 1-2: we never looked like dropping points here, but another late goal could have hurt us. this was a solid performance, no doubt

West Bromwich Albion W 1-2: 2 goals in a minute and it shouldve been a walk in the park, but we somehow conspired to make heavy weather of it and almost lost out. decent for a small part of the game, got goals, and then played like crap

Sunderland W 2-1: came back from a goal down to lead, but were absolutely shocking for the second half as 10 man sunderland completely took control of the game

Chelsea L 2-0: played off the park by an understrength chelsea side

Portsmouth D 0-0: another home game where we were incapable of breaking down the opposition

Wigan Athletic W 0-4: vintage stuff, one of the few really good performances this season

Blackburn Rovers W 3-2: shouldve been far more comfortable, but yet again we managed to let them back into the game for a nervy end

Newcastle United L 2-0: shouldve been out of sight within the first 40 minutes, but we werent and then we collapsed

Middlesbrough L 1-2: rubbish stuff compounded by individual errors to cost us the game

Arsenal W 0-2: performances like this one make the ****e we've peddled most of the season all the more unbearable. this match proved that we could actually play a bit of football

H Manchester United D 0-0: solid performance never really let united pay, their main threat withdrew with injury after nrc had him in his pocket for the whole match

H Fulham D 0-0: couldnt break stubborn opponents down at home, again, because of our predictable play

A Everton W 2-3: cracking finish to the game makes people forget that we almost threw this one again after letting everton back into the game when they shouldnt have had a sniff

Bolton Wanderers W 4-2: another one of the all too rare decent performances, another late goal conceded tho

West Ham United W 0-1: struggled to break down the opposition but a slice of good fortune from an og got us the win

H Arsenal D 2-2: outplayed them start to finish but still found ourselves 2-0 down before a penalty and last minute equaliser salvaged something from what shouldve been a comfortable win.

Hull City W 0-1: rubbish again. unable to break down the opposition again. own goal saves us again

West Bromwich Albion W 2-1: shouldve been comfortable again, conspired to fall apart again, squeaked over the finish line again.

Sunderland W 1-2: came back from a goal and a man down to win thanks to a penalty. by no means a great performance, but with the man down it was a great outcome

Portsmouth W 0-1: early lead gave false hope that we could go on and end this one with relative ease, but we didnt. again we let the other team take control. held on tho

Wigan Athletic D 0-0: we were actually very very good in this one despite yet another home scoreless draw. did everything but score. just one of those days

Blackburn Rovers W 0-2: the last time we won a game. dominated and couldve won by more

Chelsea L 0-1: the curse of the new manager was always going to strike here, regardless of how well we did or didnt play. this one was a write off as soon as hiddink was appointed

Stoke City D 2-2: threw this away courtesy of, shock horror, falling apart in the last 10 minutes when a bit of pressure was put onto us

Manchester City L 2-0: absolutely clueless. everything about this one was a mess

Tottenham Hotspur L 1-2: see above, til carew came on and started causing real problems

Liverpool L 5-0: despite the absolute mauling the scoreline suggests, this was for the most part one of our better footballing performances. the only thing was that they kept going up and scoring

Manchester United L 3-2: again, the season old trend of falling apart when put under late pressure costs us

Everton D 3-3: excellent game for the neutral, and we probably did enough to win this in the end, but it wasnt to be and a draw was probably a fair result. some silly defending

West Ham United D 1-1: falling apart near the end? never!

Bolton Wanderers D 1-1: clueless, uninterested, unimaginative, unresponsive. at least everton lost tho, eh?

we have NOT been any use for the majority of the season, but we had an incredible run of luck. i had hoped that it was just a case of waiting for the players to click for the performances to improve, but instead the performances stayed roughly the same, and the luck disappeared

Esse85

Villain wrote: »

FFS 5th or 6th is a great improvment

Is it really??

5 wins out of 17 home games.
So far we've scored at least 10-12 goals less and conceded more compared to this time last season.
We're about to qualify for a competition that we've shown to have no interest in. How will this help us attract players?
The wins we've had have been down to alot of luck, penalties, og's, deflections on shots.
Knocked out early in three cup competitions.
Still one of the smallest squads in the league.
We're gonna lose the captain and vice captain.

Well worth the £50-60m spent last summer:rolleyes:

Villain

Its consistency 6th in a once off season can happen pretty easy, we are now establishing ourselves as a consistent top 6 team, and if we hadn't lost our captain who knows what could have been.

I said before the season started that 5th or 6th would be good and then we could build from there I still believe that.

How many times have we got a top 6 spot only to slide down the table the following season.

Esse85

Villain wrote: »

How many times have we got a top 6 spot only to slide down the table the following season.

Which is looking a likely scenario for next season with the reinforcements Spurs and Man City will bring in.

Helix

Villain wrote: »

Its consistency 6th in a once off season can happen pretty easy, we are now establishing ourselves as a consistent top 6 team

we're establishing ourselves as a route one team who can be defended against easily by sitting deep, and who will fall apart in the last 10 minutes if under any sort of pressure

Bounty Hunter

just curious at the start of this season what is the worst Villa could do under MON for you to consider yourself still happy with how the season went overall?

I expected 5th, 6th was acceptable, 7th a step backwards, anything lower would be a failure for def.....4th would have been amazing tbh id have been very surprised but pleasantly so.

Obviously our expectations changed but the achievements of our team/manager shouldent change just cos we have a good start to the season.

and yes this is now MON's Villa with the majority of players being his signings but starting from a club lucky to get relegation survival did you really expect that squad to be a CL quality squad in just 2 and a half years, cos i didnt.

MON is not infallable, we have played muck on numerous occasions this season and those that support MON as manager have said as much, but that doesent mean we think we should sack him. Look to all the big clubs we want to emulate, do they chop and change their manager all the time ? or do they gives people like Rafa, Fergie and Wenger the time needed to attempt to fulfill the expectations of the fans.

homah_7ft

What a topsy-turvy season. Have had way worse as a Villa fan though in fairness. The disappointment is worse I suppose when you start to think of what could have been. Laursen being lost was the killer blow. Not having the quality there to replace him at least partially is to blame. No point in worrying about Spurs in the off season it's the same story every summer. If we can get some depth in (taking into account we'll be losing quality) and I'll be content. In summation- I'm taking the glass half full view

Helix

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Obviously our expectations changed but the achievements of our team/manager shouldent change just cos we have a good start to the season.

we're on course for our worst home record of all time

Bounty Hunter

Helix wrote: »

we're on course for our worst home record of all time

as you keep repeating, personally i couldnt give a shoite as long as our away recored compensates for it. Obviously i want better and hope for better next season but stats mean nothing to me unless its the amount of league points we have.

Helix

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

as you keep repeating, personally i couldnt give a shoite as long as our away recored compensates for it. Obviously i want better and hope for better next season but stats mean nothing to me unless its the amount of league points we have.

52 on february 7th, 55 on april 25th then

Bounty Hunter

Helix wrote: »

52 on february 7th, 55 on april 25th then

and thats still enough to have us in 5th which is an improvement on last year so im not too unhappy although obviously recent form is admittidly terrible.

btw seing as you selectively quoted me, im still curious as to this...

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

just curious at the start of this season what is the worst Villa could do under MON for you to consider yourself still happy with how the season went overall?

btw incase you are trying to convince anyone we should sack MON it wont work on me, like i said i dont think he is not infallable and he is very much so open to criticism but Villa have continued to improve under him and imo it is crazy to sack the manager in such circumstances. It is however understandable you question how far he can take us, but for now talk of replacing him is very premature afaic

Helix

where did i say we should sack mon?

Bounty Hunter

well whats the point in the past several pages of mon vs anti mon crap on this thread so, we all know and admit we have sucked recently but overall things arent that terrible is all myself, shoutman etc are saying

im still curious what you would have been hapy with at the start of the season though

invincibleirish

Its highly unlikely MON is gonna leave in the summer so the argument is irrelevant. If we don't pin the catastrophic loss of form on MON then who is to blame? and is there any hope for MON, how about a big spending summer will that appease you Helix?

Esse85

At the start of the season i would of been happy with 5th, but in January when Arsenal couldnt win a game and we were on a decent run, it was obvious that current situation wouldnt last, Arsenal were always gonna regain form but MON could and should of strenghtened the squad, in fact he made it worse by signing Heskey.

The funds appear to have been there, so why didnt he bring in reinforcements?? He fcuked here big time, March and April have been shocking months for Villa, yet they needn't have been had MON taken advantage of the window he had open to him.

If Arsenal hadnt been so bad then 5th would of been great, but the chance was there, MON didnt take it, he gambled on getting by with a small squad, he gambled on the UEFA cup game and both back fired.

Helix

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

well whats the point in the past several pages of mon vs anti mon crap on this thread so, we all know and admit we have sucked recently but overall things arent that terrible is all myself, shoutman etc are saying

im still curious what you would have been hapy with at the start of the season though

i thought we'd finish 8th. i wouldnt have been happy with it tho. id have been happy with a 5 point increase on last season, because that would be a decent level of progress

invincibleirish wrote: »

Its highly unlikely MON is gonna leave in the summer so the argument is irrelevant. If we don't pin the catastrophic loss of form on MON then who is to blame? and is there any hope for MON, how about a big spending summer will that appease you Helix?

big spending in the summer wont appease me no, nor will we have lots of money to spend. what would make me happy would be if the manager would stop being to infuriatingly stubborn and tactically inept

Kinetic^

Why not write a strongly worded letter to AVFC then?

Helix

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Why not write a strongly worded letter to AVFC then?

why, am i not allowed to give opinions on villa in the villa thread in the soccer forum?

Kinetic^

Helix wrote: »

why, am i not allowed to give opinions on villa in the villa thread in the soccer forum?

I never said anything of the sort.

Savman

Balls to all of it tbh. I think we've all had enough time to pass educated opinion on MON, three seasons in you have to seriously question some of his signings. Good players have been available but he refuses to entertain anyone without a British passport. When you limit yourself to English players, you get all heart, workrate and effort but you don't get flair or class, barring the odd exceptions like Gerrard and Lampard. Hence the complaints about our "one dimensional play".

Carew and Petrov are our 2 best performers, both have a touch of class about them yet neither is British. Coincidence? I think not.

I've looked forward to previous summers with anticipation, this time I'm quite concerned. Laursen done for, Barry probably as good as gone, how do you replace 2 top drawer players with a stiff ass transfer policy?

The same man who paid £12m for James Milner has absolutely no right to complain about an 'inflated' transfer market, oh the irony :rolleyes:

mirwillbeback

I did it politely last week.

F*ck that.

O'Neill out. NOW

shoutman

Savman wrote: »

The same man who paid £12m for James Milner has absolutely no right to complain about an 'inflated' transfer market, oh the irony :rolleyes:

At the time an awful lot of people were happy with the signing, money was not a problem.

We paid way over the odds for Young at the time too but there are no complaints now are there.

People are being incredibly short sighted calling for MON's head. Ridiculous imo.

I know there are one or two among this board who always disliked the appointment of MON as manager. But it simply can not be argued that he has brought Villa on leaps and bounds.
Where is the loyalty? I for one do not want villa to return to the manager roundabout days of the past where we have a new manager every two years.

Let MON complete five years, we can see how his five year plan has turned out and we can make changes then. Obviously if we are fighting relegation next season he wont be around, but I simply can not see that happening.

The squad needs a moral boost and sacking the manager isn't going to do that.

Also whoever was commenting on my sig yesterday, I have never removed it.

villains77

imho 5th would be a good season. but the team has played poorly for the last 2/3 months. like no wins since feb is a complete joke for a team like the villa. fair enough if laursen wasnt injured we wouldnt have conceded that many goals. here's hoping to a bday wknd of 3 points on the bank hol monday. are home form is totally dissapointing. losing to the likes of boro and man city drawing with stoke not on. at all. hope we get a few top players in for the summer. think i would have settles for 5th/6th with more points then last year. but 4th would be great but we would be knocked out in the first round if we even get through to the group phase. id like to see us get 4th next yr if we get the right kind of players in. would like to see shorey improve on this season. was at the csk moscow game and was impressed with him, considering that he hasnt started that many games for us b4 then. he had a good game.


anybody going to the fulham game in 2 weeks.

Villain

Anyone who thinks MON should go please let me know who you think will be better, that will want to come to Villa?

shoutman

I believe the two names to date have been Sven and Avram Grant.

matrim

shoutman wrote: »

I believe the two names to date have been Sven and Avram Grant.

TBH, I don't think either of them would be what we need. I don't think Sven is better than MON. And while Grant did a very good job with chelsea he isn't fully proven, especially in the transfer market.

The main criticisms I have with MON can actually be sumed up with one phrase "lack of imagination", both on the pitch and in the transfer market.

MON should definitely be given another season. We've been continuing to make progress and established ourselves as a top 6 team. Now it's about bringing in the right players to take us further. For me this is to make the defense more stable, and bring that extra bit of flair to the attack.

For his signings I don't think he's been too bad

Brad Friedel £2.5m
Brad Guzan £600k

Both good signings. Friedel while not having the best season is a great player. And Guzan looks promising

Luke Young £5.5m - Played very well and worth the money.
Curtis Davies £10m - Looks to be overpriced ATM but is a decent defender and is still young.

Zat Knight £2m - Was always a stopgap to add some depth to the squad. Never going to be a starter but is an average 4th or 5th choice CB

Nicky Shorey £3m - Hasn't played well. Although looked a bit better in the last few games. So far looks a very bad buy.

Carlos Cuéllar £7.8m - Hasn't had the best season, but I still think he's a good defender and with the right partner we could have a very solid defense with him.

James Milner £12m - A bit overpriced but I like Milner and he has played well. Is always going to be good at supplying crosses into the box and willl run his socks off for the team.

Steve Sidwell £5m - I still think he could come good next season

Stiliyan Petrov £6.5m - Our best player this season.

Nigel Reo-Coker £8.5m - Solid performer, played well out of position.

Ashley Young £8m -Great player and was a steal at 8m

John Carew Swap with Baros - One of our best players. Great buy

Emile Heskey £3.5m - Hasn't played well for us yet. But I think he's decent to have in the squad.

Marlon Harewood £4m - Was always a stop gap measure

shoutman

I don't think Sven or Avram Grant would do a job at Villa either, if they came on board they would probably want a total new 11, no doubt some people on here would like to see that happen, but it isn't and shouldn't happen. We do have a good core of players and we also have some players who are either underperforming greatly or have huge potential. Everybody has seen Sidwell, during his time at reading, play like a top quality player. Cuellar has shown good ability and will go from strength to strength, likewise with Davies.
I have a big question mark over Shorey as I don't think he will ever be a european quality left back. Heskey wont be around for long and I fully expect a FC to come during the summer.

Esse85

Helix wrote: »

oh im sorry, i must have missed the bit where i wrote that you said it

please accept my apologies for something i didnt do

*edit*

although ive just noticed your sig

lol

Helix who was this reply aimed at?

shoutman

That was aimed at me.

Neil3030

Man Villa are breaking my heart lately. At least the Bluejays have started the season well.

SlickRic

anyone who wants O'Neill gone, with all due respect, has gone a bit loony.

yeah that's how you'll get to the Champions League...forfeiting stability for a knee-jerk reaction.

hilarious stuff.

invincibleirish

MON isn't going anywhere for a while yet, that said its been 3 years so we're familiar with his ways at this stage and allowed to cast praise & judgement. Now he has to impress in the summers transfer dealings, we've over achieved & under achieved this season. Next season we'll level out somewhere, and going by current form we're more likely to be bottom half then top 6.

shoutman

That's like saying going with the first half of the seasons form we will be champions league next season. We are a top 6 club on paper, we will not be overachieving by coming fifth.

invincibleirish

No its not, its saying without a significant improvement in our defence, in either performance or personnel, we will be overachieving by finishing fifth.

shoutman

Well if we continue to perform as we are doing at present we will be rock bottom of the premiership come Christmas with little or no chance of staying up, I am just of the opinion that this current horrible slump will end and that we could go back to winning games like we were doing pre Christmas.

As slick ric has said above, I think an awful lot of the MON out sentiment is a knee jerk reaction.
Even at the start of the Ferguson era at united there were those calling for his head. I don't for a second think MON is going to be at Villa for twenty years but I do think there is more to come from him.

Helix

shoutman wrote: »

I think an awful lot of the MON out sentiment is a knee jerk reaction

to date ive only seen one person say mon out in this thread

Neil3030

Might be worth getting a bit of transparency here, could everyone please indicate where they stand on MON?

i.e.,

(a) Out now
(b) Out unless he spends big this summer
(c) Give him one more year regardless

etc etc.

FWIW I think he should be given until Christmas and unless we look comfortable in the top 6 he should be sacked. That way a replacement could be brought in for the January window.

Helix

i think next season will be his last

and i think he should be given next season on the off chance some of his potentially dodgy signings come good

in saying that, i do think that hes probably the most overrated manager of premiership history

shoutman

So you are promoted overlord of Aston Villa for a day, Helix, what do you do.

Neil I'm in the give him until christmas AT LEAST, camp.

invincibleirish

Yep i think next season will be make or break for him. With departures of GB & Laursen a big summer is needed to keep team competitive. Spurs, Everton & Man City are unlikely to lose any of their big names in the summer, we're down 2 already seemingly, so its going to be a tough task to remain top 8 imo.

Helix

shoutman wrote: »

So you are promoted overlord of Aston Villa for a day, Helix, what do you do.

Neil I'm in the give him until christmas AT LEAST, camp.

i just said, id give mon next season

Esse85

Spending big is no guarentee of success. The more MON spends this summer, then IMO the more pressure he's putting on himself. He spent big last summer and he was mugged. I just want the players brought in to live up to their price tag.

Dont forget, MON is in foreign territory himself. He's never been in a position to challenge the top 4 in the premiership before. He did a great job with Leicester, i dont regard what he did at Celtic as anything special as that league lacks quality. He may even realise himself that he's out of his depths hovering around 5th 6th position.

There's not a hope in hell he'd be considered for the Man Utd jod when fergie leaves, that position will be filled by someone who's been there and won it all before.

Bounty Hunter

Esse85 wrote: »

Spending big is no guarentee of success. The more MON spends this summer, then IMO the more pressure he's putting on himself. He spent big last summer and he was mugged. I just want the players brought in to live up to their price tag.

It is no guarantee of success but it may be neccessary if we are to make progress again as we will have to most likely replace both Laursen & Barry aswell as making any other improvements and tbh id be hoping that those improvements would be good enough for the first team and therefore will prob cost around 10m.

Dont forget, MON is in foreign territory himself. He's never been in a position to challenge the top 4 in the premiership before. He did a great job with Leicester, i dont regard what he did at Celtic as anything special as that league lacks quality. He may even realise himself that he's out of his depths hovering around 5th 6th position.

There's not a hope in hell he'd be considered for the Man Utd jod when fergie leaves, that position will be filled by someone who's been there and won it all before.

He is in foreign territory alright but that doesent mean he will be out of his depth, he has excelled in any territory he has found himself in so far (Leicster, Celtic an argueably Villa until recently) we can only hope he excells in this new territory and not write him off already. If he can pull off Turning a sleeping giant from the midalnds into a CL side then Man Utd would def look at him (not that i want them to) if not they probably wouldent.

Helix

Esse85 wrote: »

Spending big is no guarentee of success.

spot on. spending right > spending big

mon isnt the type of manager to bring in hidden gems tho. its obvious template fitting players all the time

Esse85 wrote: »

He may even realise himself that he's out of his depths hovering around 5th 6th position.

There's not a hope in hell he'd be considered for the Man Utd jod when fergie leaves, that position will be filled by someone who's been there and won it all before.

i suspect hes known this for a while. in his whole career hes never managed big names. hed be shown the door within 12 months at old trafford, i dont think there are many who've had him as manager of their club who would argue with that.

unless he can turn things around and up his game in the transfer market and tactically, i dont think he'll ever be a top class manager without some major, major changes, despite what some think.

shoutman

Helix wrote: »

spot on. spending right > spending big

mon isnt the type of manager to bring in hidden gems tho. its obvious template fitting players all the time

I think Ash Young is the exception to this, but that said he still fitted his template.