Aston Villa Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

invincibleirish

I think you misjudge the reaction to Villas performances JPA, its not about squandering 4th or the CL but more to do with Villa being in an awful 3 month long run of bad form. Grievances over tactics, formation & signings are inevitable in situations like this, its laughable to think Villa were once in the run for fourth with our comedy defence.

Lets just focus on the summer and see what the transfer window brings, reasonable people will realise the loss of Laursen & Bouma has had a a major impact on the season, and lets sell Shorey!.

Helix

eagle eye wrote: »

I just read your sig Helix. I think thats very sad. How long is it since Villa were up at the top end of the table and O'Neill comes in and has an immediate impact and you say he is overrated. Very sad imo. A bit of realism required. Alex Ferguson took 6 years to put a League winning team together.

ive always said he was overrated

before he took over, when he took over, and now

Helix

JPA wrote: »

We were a relegation candidates before MON came in

we were never realistically relegation candidates tho, we had one absolutely shambolic season due in no small part to behind the scenes infighting and mismanagement, but that 16th place finish was not representative of the team in the slightest

JPA

Helix wrote: »

we were never realistically relegation candidates tho, we had one absolutely shambolic season due in no small part to behind the scenes infighting and mismanagement, but that 16th place finish was not representative of the team in the slightest

We were in real danger of relegation so we were definitely relegation candidates.

Helix

yeah but people make out that mon inherrited one of the worst teams in the premiership. he didnt

Savman

Ah here, enough of the excuse making please. This is now 100% MON's side, all supposed 'deadwood' has been cleared. "Let him buy his own players" we were told, well...we did. And I'm losing count of the number of Misses V Hits.

Bear in mind, and I hate to point it out, but MON did not buy Laursen or Bouma. Nor Barry for that matter. Gabby got his debut before MON's arrival too. Milner had already played for Villa long before O'Neill spent twelve mill on him.

So it looks like that January oh so long ago, when he signed Carew and Ashley Young in the space of a week has been his best moves as Villa manager. He then signed players like Davies, Sidwell, Reo Coker, Milner, Knight, Shorey, L. Young and Harewood for a estimated total of £40m odd, £22m of which went on Sidwell, Davies and Reo-Coker alone :eek:

Another £8m would have got him a Robinho or a Berbatov, hell even a Defoe or a Bent.

kinaldo

Savman wrote: »

Ah here, enough of the excuse making please. This is now 100% MON's side, all supposed 'deadwood' has been cleared. "Let him buy his own players" we were told, well...we did. And I'm losing count of the number of Misses V Hits.

Bear in mind, and I hate to point it out, but MON did not buy Laursen or Bouma. Nor Barry for that matter. Gabby got his debut before MON's arrival too. Milner had already played for Villa long before O'Neill spent twelve mill on him.

So it looks like that January oh so long ago, when he signed Carew and Ashley Young in the space of a week has been his best moves as Villa manager. He then signed players like Davies, Sidwell, Reo Coker, Milner, Knight, Shorey, L. Young and Harewood for a estimated total of £40m odd, £22m of which went on Sidwell, Davies and Reo-Coker alone :eek:

Another £8m would have got him a Robinho or a Berbatov, hell even a Defoe or a Bent.

I agree with this and also think it's a damning indictment of the rest of the Premiership that Villa are currently the 'best of the rest'.

Doodee

I think it is clear that some changes will have to be made during the summer.
I worried about our encounter with Fulham, mainly because they are playing great football under Hodgeson. Thats even more clear now. There defense was solid today. Hangeland was able to keep Carew quiet in the air, and they were always pressuring when Villa had possession.

I saw Shoreys reaction to being subbed, It was a little odd substituting 2 defenders like that. I felt Barry becomes ineffective when played at left Back, simply because he is not able to get into the positions that he does before making assist.

A.Young seemed to become silent after that knock to his Shin/Ankle. Apart from the near post chance. I still don't get why Abby didn't cross it into the free Davies in the box.
Heskey was utter ****ing ****. A waste of a substitution. If he had been awake he might have gotten us one back, but I no longer rate him as a good striker. I've heard people say that when he is on form he is unstoppable but I'm afraid that is not good enough when he lacks form so often.

I think that MON must try to get Hangeland. He should start early too as I would say more clubs will be interested, and I'm sure Fulham will want to hang onto him too. Regardless, he will do wonders for the defense.

I also feel that we should chase Kranjcar as a replacement for Barry in the middle. There seems to be something lacking for our options in attack which might be going through the center.

Even with Bouma coming back next season we still need cover at the back, and I wouldn't mind seeing us get rid of Knight. There always seems to be a weakness when he is at the back.

I really hope we have a good time shopping cause next season is going to be difficult. Let's just hope that we can get a win off Newcastle or Boro and Everton loose to WH or Fulham.

Helix

we dont need cover at the back, we need first choice players

matrim

Savman wrote: »

So it looks like that January oh so long ago, when he signed Carew and Ashley Young in the space of a week has been his best moves as Villa manager. He then signed players like Davies, Sidwell, Reo Coker, Milner, Knight, Shorey, L. Young and Harewood for a estimated total of £40m odd, £22m of which went on Sidwell, Davies and Reo-Coker alone :eek:

Milner and L. Young have been good signings.
Reo-Croker has been decent (and if played properly can be good)
I still think Davies and Sidwell can turn good
Knight and Harewood were always just stopgap squad players

Savman

I don't think you can replace players like Barry or Laursen tbh. Good players can be found, but great players only come along once in a blue moon.

God forbid one of the CL superpowers come sniffing around Ashley Young or Carew :eek:

DSB

Savman wrote: »

I don't think you can replace players like Barry or Laursen tbh. Good players can be found, but great players only come along once in a blue moon.

God forbid one of the CL superpowers come sniffing around Ashley Young or Carew :eek:

Young might happen, Carew won't. He wouldn't improve them. But he is imperative to us.

matrim

Savman wrote: »

I don't think you can replace players like Barry or Laursen tbh. Good players can be found, but great players only come along once in a blue moon.

God forbid one of the CL superpowers come sniffing around Ashley Young or Carew :eek:

I don't think we'd let O'Neill would let Young leave unless it was for a ridiculous amount of money.

I agree that great players are hard to find. And Barry and Laursen are very hard to replace but hopefully it will be possible

Helix

barry leaving will turn out to be a good thing for us

with him in the squad we'll always lack a cutting edge. thats not because he isnt a fantastic player, but because of the sort of fantastic player he is. a central pairing of him and petrov is the reason we cant break teams down when they park the bus

o'neill wont buy the creative central midfielder we need to fix that unless his hand is forced

Savman

matrim wrote: »

Milner and L. Young have been good signings.
Reo-Croker has been decent (and if played properly can be good)
I still think Davies and Sidwell can turn good
Knight and Harewood were always just stopgap squad players

Interesting. I mentioned a whole bunch of MON-bought players and the best descriptive phrases you can use is:
"good signings"
"decent"
"can be good"
"can turn good"
"stopgap squad players"

Says a lot doesn't it?

Sorry, but when you have aspirations for the Champions League...."good" just ain't good enough.

Helix wrote:

o'neill wont buy the creative central midfielder we need to fix that unless his hand is forced

He may not buy another one full stop. I mean, where's he gonna go, the Gareth Barry store? They open late on sundays? :pac:

invincibleirish

I agree with Helix in that Barry leaving will be a good thing, there is an opportunity to replace him with a different type of midfielder, hopefully MON will seize upon it. The flipside is that Sidwell & NRC might be getting a lot more starts next season.

Laursen on the other hand will be difficult to replace, i cannot see Hangeland coming to an under performing Villa if there is a couple of clubs in for him, particularly if they are London based.

shoutman

Villa are under performing but players are going to see Europe in Villa and think its a step up. Villa are still a team on the up with an ambitious chairman and manager. The club will not be happy that we performed the same as we did last year, but we are still in europe and thats not a bad thing.

matrim

Savman wrote: »

Interesting. I mentioned a whole bunch of MON-bought players and the best descriptive phrases you can use is:
"good signings"
"decent"
"can be good"
"can turn good"
"stopgap squad players"

Says a lot doesn't it?

Sorry, but when you have aspirations for the Champions League...."good" just ain't good enough.

He may not buy another one full stop. I mean, where's he gonna go, the Gareth Barry store? They open late on sundays? :pac:

But I only mentioned the players that you said in your post.

He also brought in A. Young, Carew, Petrov who were 3 or our best players this year (I'd also put L. Young as one of our best players).

Even Milner has 8 assists which is joint top with Young and Gabby.

Yes the second half of this season has been disappointing but we are still guaranteed European football next season and can finish 5th. MON has made mistakes in the transfer market but we have a good core of a team and we can only hope that we build on that next season.

villains77

i was at the math yesterday and couldnt believe how bad we played after the 2nd half. really thaugh we could get a win after the way we played. the team look really tired and not bothered to play for anything. we really have to get the 6 points from next 2 games to keep everton at 6th. and buy new players. i wreckon shorey will be gone as a result of his outburst to the dug out after being subbed. well at least we in europe next season hope he doesnt treat it like he did last time. we could have gone far in that if he wanted it to. it will make for an intresting summer to see who he buys / doesnt buy.

Neil3030

Tevez want's to stay in England apparently, I think if MON lets a player of his calibre join another club without even making an effort to sign him up he should be chased from b6 with torches and pitchforks. He'll likely end up at City, but ffs try and make it LOOK like you want to sign top players MON!

Helix

i agree completely neil

the chances of us getting him would be slim to none, but we should be breaking our bollox to try. tevez and carew up front would be bloody fantastic

Savman

Neil3030 wrote: »

Tevez want's to stay in England apparently, I think if MON lets a player of his calibre join another club without even making an effort to sign him up he should be chased from b6 with torches and pitchforks. He'll likely end up at City, but ffs try and make it LOOK like you want to sign top players MON!

-says he's leaving Old Trafford
-says he wants to stay in England.

er, hello? Get in there ffs.

JPA

I'd love Tevez at Villa but FFS lads, it ain't gonna bloody happen is it and it's nothing to do with MON.

L'prof

Savman wrote: »

-says he's leaving Old Trafford
-says he wants to stay in England.

er, hello? Get in there ffs.

Yeah, but from here it doesn't seem like yer top of his priorities!

Tevez wrote:

Any club I join, whether it be Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City, Liverpool or Everton, will be a rival of Manchester United.

wynters

I don't think there's much hope of us getting someone like Tevez, his profile might be a little bit TOO high, but I do agree we should be trying. And if Spurs and City have made enquiries, then so should we!

I hate that 'small club' attiitude that we can't go for, or sign big name players. The lack of CL football is an abvious hinderance, but that can also be an advantage in the season before a World Cup in terms of being able to offer regular, less rotational football at a strong enough club. There are players at top European clubs who aren't playing regularly and need to guarantee themselves playing time to secure their WC places (Metzelder and Trezegeut to name but two... even Anderson at United, some of the Dutch lads at Madrid - van der Vaart...?) and when you look at some of the players Allardyce brought to Bolton, or when Tevez and Masherano joined West Ham that time! - it is possible...

Outside of the top 4 sides though, there is another bracket of player we should definitely be chasing if we want to break the top 4 - 'the best of the rest' - the likes of Lescott, Cahill, Richards, Bentley...

If we wanna break the top 4, the club has to think big!

Savman

If he mentioned City and Everton, we'd be at least in with a fighting chance. I'd imagine he'll have offers from the continent, possibly CL clubs.

I don't see how merely registering an interest in this sort of player is somehow above and beyond MON and Aston Villa's capabilities

Helix

JPA wrote: »

I'd love Tevez at Villa but FFS lads, it ain't gonna bloody happen is it and it's nothing to do with MON.

we have to try

JPA

Savman wrote: »

If he mentioned City and Everton, we'd be at least in with a fighting chance. I'd imagine he'll have offers from the continent, possibly CL clubs.

I don't see how merely registering an interest in this sort of player is somehow above and beyond MON and Aston Villa's capabilities

Register an interest for what?
What's the point? He'll join a Champions league club or stay at United.
And whether he wants to stay in England, I think his master decides where he will go.

matrim

We should definitely be going for him, whether we get him or not is another thing but we should at least try.

He's the type of player we want, loads of ability and a good attitude and workrate

Helix

JPA wrote: »

Register an interest for what?
What's the point? He'll join a Champions league club or stay at United.
And whether he wants to stay in England, I think his master decides where he will go.

if we're in for tevez it raises our profile

believe it or not, thatll make a huge difference in how we're viewed by potential signings

JPA

Helix wrote: »

we have to try

Why? Because Tevez is a secret Villa fan?
Because no other Champions League club will want him?
I don't know why fans say we should at least try when it just won't happen. Is it just for show?

Helix

JPA wrote: »

I don't know why fans say we should at least try when it just won't happen. Is it just for show?

ah come on man you know how the game works at this stage

we go in for tevez, make a very public approach and our stock is temporarily raised. it becomes "look at villa, big ambitions there" rather than "look at villa, signing championship players again"

JPA

Helix wrote: »

ah come on man you know how the game works at this stage

we go in for tevez, make a very public approach and our stock is temporarily raised. it becomes "look at villa, big ambitions there" rather than "look at villa, signing championship players again"

It's not a game I want us playing. Like Spurs trying to sign Rivaldo.
At least he sent them a nice letter thanking them for their interest.
I also can't see Lerner doing any deals with Kia whatshisname.

Helix

tough

the game has to be played these days, theres no choice

JPA

Helix wrote: »

tough

the game has to be played these days, theres no choice

Savman

JPA wrote: »

He'll join a Champions league club or stay at United.
And whether he wants to stay in England, I think his master decides where he will go.

If he's after CL, why did he mention 2 non-CL clubs in his statement?

JPA wrote:

What's the point?

Well, we are trying to tell you....

Helix wrote:

if we're in for tevez it raises our profile

matrim wrote:

whether we get him or not is another thing but we should at least try.

What are you suggesting JPA, we avoid chasing any kind of class players at all for fear of rejection? Tevez will most likely not end up at Villa Park, nobody is suggesting that. But by going after him we make a statement of intent to the wider footballing world. Not really that difficult to comprehend really, unless we've already fulfilled our ambitions under MON :rolleyes:

JPA

Savman wrote: »

If he's after CL, why did he mention 2 non-CL clubs in his statement?

Well, we are trying to tell you....



What are you suggesting JPA, we avoid chasing any kind of class players at all for fear of rejection? Tevez will most likely not end up at Villa Park, nobody is suggesting that. But by going after him we make a statement of intent to the wider footballing world. Not really that difficult to comprehend really, unless we've already fulfilled our ambitions under MON :rolleyes:

Trying to sign a player we have no chance of signing makes us a laughing stock. I'm all for bidding for top class players but we at least have to offer them something better than they currently have, more money, better league, bigger club etc. But Tevez is at arguably the biggest club in the world and will stay or join another of the worlds top clubs. THIS IS REALITY.
Making bids to raise our profile is BS. You can agree with this type of policy if you like but it ain't gonna happen at Villa.

PS: Even if we did bid for Tevez we wouldn't reveal it to the media unless it was leaked from the other side.

DSB

We should always be in for players who we can afford, that O'Neill feels would better our team. We probably won't get him, but theres certainly only gain to be gotten from trying.

Savman

JPA wrote: »

But Tevez is at arguably the biggest club in the world and will stay or join another of the worlds top clubs.

Like Everton?

JPA

Savman wrote: »

Like Everton?

:rolleyes: Tevez is not joining Everton.

Helix

JPA wrote: »

:rolleyes: Tevez is not joining Everton.

we dont know who hes joining yet. but we do know hes available for any teams who are interested to make an offer. you seem fairly happy to float around the 5-8th place positions in the league, but there are a few of us whod like to see the club display a little ambition

who couldve seen tevez joining west ham?

sometimes clubs sign players who would normally be a little out of their grasp, but theres no way of knowing unless you make an offer and see what the player says

what on earth has you so worried about tevez saying no thanks?

Neil3030

Well looking at the English teams that might bid for him (seeing as he has said he wants to stay there):

Chelsea - Need to sell to buy
Arsenal - Skint and Wenger strongly hinting at spending freeze this Summer.
Liverpool - Genuine contenders imo. Would prob have the cash (depending on how much Gaz sets them back :P) and he'd probably do really well there.

That leaves:

Everton (probably out of their price range)
City (like I said - he'll probably end up here)
Spurs (saving another 'Arry master market move, I don't see it)

and us.

I'm sorry but backing down from taking on the above clubs in a bidding war is an indication of irreparable weakness.

JPA

I would bloody love Tevez here but what I'm saying, and this is what I believe rather than what I have read, is that he will end up at a Champions League club. So while he may have said he would like to stay in England, if one of the champions league clubs don't sign him then he will not stay. He will go abroad.

How many Villa fans think we would have a chance of signing him? Some of you seem to think he wouldn't come here but sure just try coz it looks good.
I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic.

Now if he gave any indication he would like to come here then bid away but do it in the right manner and not through some kind of media driven, publicity generating way. (I already mentioned that Randy wouldn't touch this kind of semi legal ownership deal with a barge pole but that's beside the point)

shoutman

I think there is less then a 1% chance of us getting him, but its still a chance, as someone has already said, even declaring our interest would show our ambition. And I think at the present time we really need to sign someone or at least show interest in someone who will show the footballing world that we are still an ambitious club looking to break the top four.

invincibleirish

Neil3030 wrote: »

Well looking at the English teams that might bid for him (seeing as he has said he wants to stay there):

Chelsea (Villa spent more then they last summer)
Arsenal (Villa spent more then they last summer)
Liverpool (Villa spent more then they last summer)

That leaves:

Everton (above them in the league)
City (above them in the league)
Spurs (above them in the league)

and us.(fifth, with an allegedly ambitious & rich owner)

If we got it why don't we use it? the general in his good PR thread intimated the money is there for a Marquee signing, Tevez fits any profile i'm sure MON has for a decent player.

The recession is on, some clubs might be strapped for cash, lets see what chairmen are putting their money into their pockets and willing to spend.

Neil3030

JPA wrote: »

I would bloody love Tevez here but what I'm saying, and this is what I believe rather than what I have read, is that he will end up at a Champions League club. So while he may have said he would like to stay in England, if one of the champions league clubs don't sign him then he will not stay. He will go abroad.

How many Villa fans think we would have a chance of signing him? Some of you seem to think he wouldn't come here but sure just try coz it looks good.
I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic.

Now if he gave any indication he would like to come here then bid away but do it in the right manner and not through some kind of media driven, publicity generating way. (I already mentioned that Randy wouldn't touch this kind of semi legal ownership deal with a barge pole but that's beside the point)

Well for starters it sends a message to the fans that the club is showing ambition insofar as it is making an attempt to sign a calibre of player of genuine quality. And as others have already mentioned, it does raise the profile of the club with other potential targets. Now obviously there's going overboard (bidding for Messi, Kaka etc won't suddenly make us appealing to Diego for example), but if kept within the parameters of plausibility this kind of proposition could be a dealmaker for a Haangeland sort, i.e., a player who the likes of Everton/City etc. are eyeing up that we really should be in for. He finds out we tried to get Tevez, there's an instant measure of the club's ambition.

And at the end of the day, what the hell have we to lose? They/he says no, we move on to other targets. Keep in mind that price is really the only stumbling block for Villa signing players from what I've gathered. Have you ever heard of a player say "my club had a deal accpeted from Villa but I had a look round the place, met the manager and just didn't fancy it"?

Savman

JPA wrote: »

:rolleyes: Tevez is not joining Everton.

Put your crystal ball away for just a minute eh? You don't know who he will join (or do you, Kia?)....

You are not quite grasping this are ya? Carlos Tevez, in what seems like a carefully worded PR message, mentioned clubs outside the Top 4, outside the Champion's League...clubs on the "up", if you will. That says to the footballing world, that he is not ruling out the 'best of the rest' clubs. Furthermore, the player also stressed his preference to stay in the Premiership.

Now, for the love of god, can you look at this again and tell us why we should not expect some interest from Villa Park? And if not, why not, exactly? "we wont get him" does not wash with me any more.

I suppose we should just accept our midtable mediocrity and continue to chase the Sidwells and Reo-Coker's of this world for mad money, simply because they are British. I don't see what we have to lose here.

Savman

Just for clarity:

Carlos Tevez wrote:

"I want to play in England because it is the best league in the world and it suits my style.
"Any club I join, whether it be Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City, Liverpool or Everton, will be a rival of Manchester United.
"I would like to thank the United fans for their support. They will always have a special place in my heart.

PR at it's best.

mirwillbeback

Just back from Orlando after 2 weeks of great sun and stangely enough, met 4 Villa fans in the same resort, and saw another 2 jerseys over there. That's about 3 times the amount of Villa fans I personally know in Ireland!

Having spoke to them, they say the feeling in Birmingham is similiar to mine about O Neill. The fans are really getting ticked off with his signings and decisions and the goodwill is starting to wane. Good to know I'm not alone

Didn't get to see the Hull game, would have expected a better win margin, but we were abject against Fulham. So question I have now is if he's beginning to lose some fans, has he already lost the dressing room?

shoutman

mirwillbeback wrote: »

So question I have now is if he's beginning to lose some fans, has he already lost the dressing room?

I think the simple answer to this is no... they did a poll over on villatalk, out of the hundreds that answered the poll 92% were still in favour of mon. I don't think he is close to being ousted yet nor do I think the players have lost respect for him. It's been a long season, and there is not a snowballs that he will be sacked during the summer, so why don't we just wait till next season to start posting mon needs to go stuff again...