Aston Villa Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Raekwon

Unsurprisingly there is not much news to report today (apart from the Reading game this afternoon) but I did stumble upon this webpage with pictures of all the Villa kits through out our history. Interesting stuff.

Neil3030

Holy **** the 1878-1881 jersey is class!!



Friedel saved a penalty on his debut, but a largely 2nd tier team could only draw 1-1. Curtis got a run out too which is fantastic news.

Bounty Hunter

a bid was rejected from a prem team for Shorey but Steve Coppell expects him to leave in the next few days after an improved bid. The club involved were not named

Mr Alan

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

a bid was rejected from a prem team for Shorey but Steve Coppell expects him to leave in the next few days after an improved bid. The club involved were not named

but Tony Adams was at their most recent game in the stands, that may be an indication it was portsmouth.

Bounty Hunter

well their most recent game was today against Villa and despite not being injured Shorey didnt play

Neil3030

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

a bid was rejected from a prem team for Shorey but Steve Coppell expects him to leave in the next few days after an improved bid. The club involved were not named

If a bid was made that was below their clearly stated and reasonable asking price, odds on it was Villa.:P

Mr Alan

Neil3030 wrote: »

If a bid was made that was below their clearly stated and reasonable asking price, odds on it was Villa.:P

if we hadnt already bought Dossena, we could be another canditate, although ours probably would have involved a couple of players as well :D

do yous need a LB of Shoreys quality/price tag? Bouma-i really rate. I know he is injured, but he'll be back in a few months.

Bounty Hunter

tbh I rate Bouma higher than Shorey but considering Bouma can also play CB I wouldent be shocked with this move as Villa also need CB cover.

Neil3030

Mr Alan wrote: »

if we hadnt already bought Dossena, we could be another canditate, although ours probably would have involved a couple of players as well :D

haha!

do yous need a LB of Shoreys quality/price tag? Bouma-i really rate. I know he is injured, but he'll be back in a few months.

Another catch 22 imo. Since MON's hardly going to have that level of competition at all positions next season, do you sign a starting quality LB and risk the implications that would have for Freddie, or risk an obvious temporary solution to play what could end up being half next season's games?

Silvestre on loan would be my favoured option, but that was just tabloid talk I reckon.

Mr Alan

General Krulak wrote:

If Martin came to Randy and said I need 30 million pounds for player "X"...that this player will fit right into what we are trying to do and is the type of player that will take us where we "both" want to go...Randy will have his check out before Martin gets past the player's name!!! Additionally, he will be equally ready to fund the other players that Martin says we need. I have said it before, Randy has NEVER said no.

yous need a new manager.

or this general needs to stop lying.

one or the other.

DSB

Mr Alan wrote: »

yous need a new manager.

or this general needs to stop lying.

one or the other.

That is definitely the general lying. If we were able to sign players for 30 million there would be no problem here.

Bounty Hunter

no 30m player would ever head to Birmingham at this moment in Villa's development and if they did they most certainley would not be MON type players as they most likely would only be heading their for a pay day so maybe the general is saying something that simply couldent happen to illustrate that the money is available and MON (who does not need replacing atm IMO) hasnt used it yet. MON will live and die by results nothing else. Thus far results have been great therefore Lerner is continuing to give MON his 100% percent backing, even though MON wants total control of transfers in/out and isnt really convincing us that he is doing a great job on that front. However he is notorious for buying late in transfer windows and at this time last year we had only signed Reo-Coker, yet four more still arrived (Carson, The Hare, Knight & Davies) whats to say that wont happen again. If he signs a RB, LB, RM and a CF im sure every Villa fan will be happy about the squad. Only time will tell and im willing to wait.

DSB

To be fair Davies was the only 1 of those transfers that really worked out. Harewood wasn't too bad either but isn't the sort of player we need to be signing. So that meant we signed late and poorly.

Bounty Hunter

DSB wrote: »

To be fair Davies was the only 1 of those transfers that really worked out. Harewood wasn't too bad either but isn't the sort of player we need to be signing. So that meant we signed late and poorly.

but MON is being judged on results and after those changes not due to them although they do illustrate changes are likely to be made we finished 6th. Say this time we sign Shorey, Finnan, Milner and K.Doyle (just the first 4 names that have been linked during the summer that i thought of) would you be happy then? and is it an unbelievable prospect

Mr Alan

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Say this time we sign Shorey, Finnan, Milner and K.Doyle (just the first 4 names that have been linked during the summer that i thought of) would you be happy then? and is it an unbelievable prospect

what i find strange about it is, if there is so much money available....why would you be signing 2 players from a relegated team, a player who is past it/very close to past it in most peoples eyes, and a player who has hardly set the world alight at Newcastle?

wat about the likes of Modric/Aimar/Lescott/Eto'o/Milito.....these are players that are/were available. and they are leagues ahead of the names you mentioned.

DSB

I don't think they're the calibre of player we need to be looking for, with the exception of Milner. So I wouldn't be happy. I don't just want players for the sake of it. I'd like a manager who can bring in better players than that. Sidwell, Friedel and Guzan really isn't an overly impressive transfer haul.

Of course its a results based business and nobody will be calling for O'Neill to go while results remain impressive. But he has put himself in a position where if results do go average or below, he has to take responsibility for that, and the price would ultimately be his head in my opinion, and rightly so. I definitely agree with Mr.Alan that the Lerner-O'Neill relationship isn't all its cracked upto be with the general going on about how O'Neill can do whatever he wants.

Mr Alan

btw the players i named were just the first couple that came into my head, but i was just pointing out the difference in class between the players that are available, and the players MON is targetting.

Eto'o would be far more likely to go to VP than De La Red tbh.

Eto'o would move if the money was right. christ he may be going to azjerbajan or wherever the ****, he just wants a huge payday, Randy can give him that. Lerner has the money (see the generals earlier post), De La Red on the other hand is one of the hottest properties around and very highly rated by Madrid. He aint going anywhere.

everton would sell Lescott for the same reason as most clubs of that size....$$$$$$$$$$......they haven't a pot to piss in. 15-20m would buy him in the morning i'd imagine.

Milito-perhaps he wouldnt move to Villa, but its certainly worth a punt, i wouldnt have thought Modric would go to Newcastle and he very nearly did, also would never have thought that Dos Santos would have gone to Spurs and he did! If Villa can get bids accepted for these types of players, then MON can meet with them, thats where he would prove his worth-but he seems scared to try.

Hate to say it, but i agree with Helix on the MON issue, he has taken yous as far as he can imo.

Speaking of Helix, he actually made an excellent post on Villa talk asking the general a series of questions that we fair and well reasoned (suprisingly;))

the general shot his huge post down with a one line response, not answering anything.

seems the general doesnt like anyone who refuses to accept everything the club say hook line and sinker.

Bounty Hunter

Al i did say thaty those names were just the first 4 i thought of that had been linked that play in the needed positions but...

I really cant imagine any of those players even thinking about moving to B6, hate to say it but Villa are not an attractive proposition for a player. Maybe Lescott if Villa had of gone in for him when Everton did but cant see why he would leave there now,Eto'o is the perfect example of what i said in my first post on this topic a 30m player that would have no interest in going to Villa and if he did you would have to question his motives (£$£).

I think the O'Neil-Lerner relationship is fine however should the rest of the transfer window not pan out as we would hope and the results get worse from last season then I dont think Lerner would hesitate in stepping in and either taking more control of transfers or trying to get someone who could, atm tho its fine.

Friedel is a quality signing, check how many times he has been mentioned in that best/worst signing presictions tthread (always in the best catagory) and Guzan as last years MLS (i know thats not Prem standard) goalie of the year is about as good as any team could expect as their sub goalie. Sidwell is a good signing too at 5m and might just be a squad player, Barry is still a Villa player.

as i said including last year when only 1 of 5 had signed at this point, it seems MON alwyas seems to sign players late and im willing to wait and see

JPA

Eto'o wouldn't move to Villa at this moment in time for any money in the world.
That is ludicrous.

Villa fans here and on Villa Talk should be on suicide watch it seems.
Doom mongers everywhere you look.

Mr Alan

JPA wrote: »

Eto'o wouldn't move to Villa at this moment in time for any money in the world.
That is ludicrous.

About as ludicrous as him considering moving to Kuruvchi?

a club in the Uzbekistan league?

Or as mad as him flying out there to discuss the possiblity of the move?

Eto'o, imo, for huge money, would certainly consider moving to Villa.

Bounty Hunter

btw JPA i couldent agree more (not about Eto'o i said about him earlier) everyone is getting very hysterical due to the silly season of transfers that it is.

ive said many times that Villa should be looking at players like Darijo Srna for example who plays RWB & RM (two positions we need) is a regular quality cration internation who currently plays for Shaktar Donetsk in the Ukraine and despite the fact that they have Champions league football im sure the lure of the Prem could work on him and we wouldent even cost too much (by English standards anyway).

However it seems that MON picks his no.1 targest in different positions and haggles for the entire off-season with that players club trying to get them for the best price possible. If he cant he will maybe wait till the next window (RB) or scramble for a squad player as cover (Salifou and Harewood).

Incase anyone thinks the money isnt there... This Summer the Cleveland Browns (Randys other team) were extremely aggressive during the offseason trying to establish themselves as a contender in the AFC. Not only did they re-sign RB Jamal Lewis and QB Derek Anderson, they made three high-risk, but high-reward additions. DTs Shaun Rogers and Corey Williams will bolster Cleveland's defense up front, while WR Donte' Stallworth will provide Anderson with another explosive weapon. The three players contracts reportedly add up to $115 million.... that was as of May 20th and they are only in pre-season now too

wynters

I'm as frustrated as any Villa fan at the moment but I think Villa fans everywhere need to relax a little.

It takes a far better calibre of player to improve on a 6th place finish than it does to improve on 11th...

Of course there's an argument that we should be much further towards completing the squad considering the season starts in less than 2 weeks, but unfortunately the transfer deadline is 2 weeks after that again. The calibre of player a Champions League-less club like us will be competing to sign will always have agents in their ear advising to hold-off until the deadline for a potentially better offer. At the moment, we're a club in European football limbo who are in the market for players who could quite possibly do better (CL football). That's just the way it is. But that's an industry-wide situation, not an MON or Aston Villa 'problem'.

O'Neill could probably go and sign the likes of Shorey, Milner, Scharner, Bullard etc. tomorrow if he wanted to if stories of the clubs financial clout are to be believed, but do players like that really have the kind of quality to push us on to a 5th or 4th place finish??? If an extra couple of weeks wait means we were to get the likes of a Podolski/Schwiensteiger, Diego, de la Red, SWP, Juninho, Lescott or Gudjonnsen (all hypothetical but not unrealistic) for example instead??? then I think the wait for that better standard of player would be extremely worthwhile. We'll still have 95+% of the seasons games to play at the deadline when you factor-in cup games etc., so what price is a couple of weeks wait if it means getting-in much better quality players?

It's frustrating I know! But I think the clubs 'wwwait-forrrrr-it' attitude in the face of snowballing fan-frustration is a sign that O'Neill really is in the market for some very good players. Getting the right kind of player to improve the club and take us forward is what this is all about... we could consolidate 6th with a Bullard or a Milner etc. (and players like that would be welcome additions!) but surely the objective is to improve on that?

I'll be as p/ssed off as anyone if the squad is still not drastically improved come September 1st, but I'm hoping the wait will be pleasantly surprising.

We've been here before with MON and transfer windows, and we've steadily improved each year regardless depending on the kind of player we've required at the time. He deserves some time and understanding.

PHB

That seems fair enough. But surely if he doesn't add significantly in the next window questions either have to be asked of him or Lerner.

JPA

PHB wrote: »

That seems fair enough. But surely if he doesn't add significantly in the next window questions either have to be asked of him or Lerner.

Only if we struggle with results.

Esse85

The uefa cup match has been switched, the 2nd leg will now be at home.

PHB

No, irrespective of that. If you don't significantly add to the squad people have to ask why otherwise you will stagnate. I know lots of Villa fans are comfortable with getting 6th or so again, but if you don't at least challenge the top 4 this year Young is going to certainly get restless.

JPA

Mr Alan wrote: »

About as ludicrous as him considering moving to Kuruvchi?

a club in the Uzbekistan league?

Or as mad as him flying out there to discuss the possiblity of the move?

Eto'o, imo, for huge money, would certainly consider moving to Villa.

I don't know what that was about but Eto'o will join one of the top 10 clubs in Europe or stay at Barca.
We need to be targeting players for whom it is a step up to play for us and to play in the Premier League. We could go down the road of throwing massive wages at a player to convince them to come but I don't think we will.

JPA

PHB wrote: »

No, irrespective of that. If you don't significantly add to the squad people have to ask why otherwise you will stagnate. I know lots of Villa fans are comfortable with getting 6th or so again, but if you don't at least challenge the top 4 this year Young is going to certainly get restless.

Obviously if we don't improve people will ask questions.
But if we sign unfashionable players and we do improve fans will still moan about lack of big names, lack of money spent etc.
Fans want glamour, they want recognition from the media.

~Rebel~

We dont know what will happen over the next month, but if it goes anything like last season, i could see fans not being placated by anything less then a 5th place finish. If you finish 6th or 7th, fans will be thinking "what if we had those one or two extra quality players that Lerner was happy to finance but MON wouldn't buy". At least with a full squad and a 6th place finish fans will know everything that could have been done was done.


Similar to how a lot of liverpool fans felt during the middle of last season, ruing the lack of cover at CB which could have made such a difference.

JPA

~Rebel~ wrote: »

We dont know what will happen over the next month, but if it goes anything like last season, i could see fans not being placated by anything less then a 5th place finish. If you finish 6th or 7th, fans will be thinking "what if we had those one or two extra quality players that Lerner was happy to finance but MON wouldn't buy". At least with a full squad and a 6th place finish fans will know everything that could have been done was done.

Ya definitely true, the what if brigade.

Savman

While I can accept the gripes and the less than favourable mood in the camp at the current time, I would hope that when things improve that this thread is as popular as it is now.

In other words, I hope some posters are as quick to compliment as they are to criticize.

wynters

PHB wrote: »

That seems fair enough. But surely if he doesn't add significantly in the next window questions either have to be asked of him or Lerner.

I think as a chairman and manager they're both as good as we could hope to have to be honest...

Certainly oustide of the transfer windows there's no-one else I'd rather have in charge of the team in terms of tactics and motivation than O'Neill. NOBODY.

We're just in a strange situation in terms of attracting the players required to improve us further. We've reached a ceiling of sorts... With no CL football, we're unlikely to get those CL quality players who are on an upward curve and who's stock is rising... they'll go to the big boys, so we're left with either with players who've moved to CL clubs and have failed to establish themselves as first teamers - a Gudjohnsen or SWP for example, aging players at bigger clubs, or the better players in lesser quality leagues like France and Germany. All of whom will wait, and wait, and wait until the end of the window to see what kind of offers come along...

Another factor in all this is that we need players who are willing to take on the challenge of trying to qualify for CL football next season perhaps... which is difficult to do in the Premiership considering the top 4 has been so copper-fastened in recent times.

Villareal are a perfect example of a good transfer strategy. Small club ('think they're stadiums capacity is less than 15,000 or something?) who tend to target 'big-money-flops' or good quality aging players - Riquelme & Pires being good examples respectively. So it is possible to do. There are good players out there. Being alllowed the chance to speak to them and then trying to convince them to come to Villa is another thing...

It's a tough station.

Boggles

wynters wrote: »

I think as a chairman and manager they're both as good as we could hope to have to be honest...

Certainly oustide of the transfer windows there's no-one else I'd rather have in charge of the team in terms of tactics and motivation than O'Neill. NOBODY.

We're just in a strange situation in terms of attracting the players required to improve us further. We've reached a ceiling of sorts... With no CL football, we're unlikely to get those CL quality players who are on an upward curve and who's stock is rising... they'll go to the big boys, so we're left with either with players who've moved to CL clubs and have failed to establish themselves as first teamers - a Gudjohnsen or SWP for example, aging players at bigger clubs, or the better players in lesser quality leagues like France and Germany. All of whom will wait, and wait, and wait until the end of the window to see what kind of offers come along...

Another factor in all this is that we need players who are willing to take on the challenge of trying to qualify for CL football next season perhaps... which is difficult to do in the Premiership considering the top 4 has been so copper-fastened in recent times.

Villareal are a perfect example of a good transfer strategy. Small club ('think they're stadiums capacity is less than 15,000 or something?) who tend to target 'big-money-flops' or good quality aging players - Riquelme & Pires being good examples respectively. So it is possible to do. There are good players out there. Being alllowed the chance to speak to them and then trying to convince them to come to Villa is another thing...

It's a tough station.

That just sounds like too many excuses to be honest, if the likes of Pompey can sign decent players and get a good band of talent together than there should be no excuse for teams such as Villa.

DSB

Boggles wrote: »

That just sounds like too many excuses to be honest, if the likes of Pompey can sign decent players and get a good band of talent together than there should be no excuse for teams such as Villa.

I dunno if you're aware, but Villa just finished ahead of all Tottenham, Man City and Portsmouth this season, I wouldn't bet against them doing that again this season. I do have a problem with O'Neill's transfer policy but it isn't all doom and gloom at all. He shouldn't sign players just because they're big names like Tottenham, or just for the sake of it, but he needs to sign players nonetheless.

Boggles

DSB wrote: »

I dunno if you're aware, but Villa just finished ahead of all Tottenham, Man City and Portsmouth this season, I wouldn't bet against them doing that again this season. I do have a problem with O'Neill's transfer policy but it isn't all doom and gloom at all. He shouldn't sign players just because they're big names like Tottenham, or just for the sake of it, but he needs to sign players nonetheless.

I picked Pompey on purpose because of the arguement of attracting the right sort of talent, if Pompey hadn't done so well in the cup I'd be sure that they would have finished above Villa.



The likes of Spurs and City are different arguements TBH.

wynters

Boggles wrote: »

That just sounds like too many excuses to be honest, if the likes of Pompey can sign decent players and get a good band of talent together than there should be no excuse for teams such as Villa.

Not trying to make excuses, just trying to give the flip-side of the story to balance some of the O'Neill bashing that's going on here...

The Portsmouth example is an excellent shout too... that's exactly the same thing as I was saying about Villareal... Portsmouth have signed aging players like Campbell and James, or players who failed to establish themselves at bigger clubs - Crouch, Defoe, Johnson, Diarra... and have assembled a damn good side.

DSB

Boggles wrote: »

I picked Pompey on purpose because of the arguement of attracting the right sort of talent, if Pompey hadn't done so well in the cup I'd be sure that they would have finished above Villa.



The likes of Spurs and City are different arguements TBH.

Ifs and buts to be honest. We could say something similar and say if Davies hadn't been injured against Arsenal, we'd have finished 5th. But we can only deal with what actually happened. Everton got more points than Villa, and Villa got more points than Portsmouth. And I'd like to think that this season it'll be more a matter of us catching up on 5th, than 7th or 8th catching up on us.

homah_7ft

Boggles wrote: »

That just sounds like too many excuses to be honest, if the likes of Pompey can sign decent players and get a good band of talent together than there should be no excuse for teams such as Villa.

It's clear as day to me what is going on with regards, "The money". Randy Lerner has made it clear he will fund any capital cost that MON requests. For evidence look at Bodymoor etc. This would also explain why the transfer kitty is so large but we don't have a queue of the world's greats waiting to join us.

There is no bankrolling of operational costs going on. In essense the wage structure has not increased to match the new transfer money. IMHO it makes sound business sense to tie the operational costs to the revenue stream available.

V1llianous

Just to let you know I was on the lookout for this jacket and even though I found it in Elvery's for €50 it wasn't in the correct size i.e. Large.

http://www.astonvilladirect.com/stores/astonvilla/products/product_details.aspx?pid=45284&bid=9&mid=26


Due to the improvement in the exchange rate between the euro and sterling I was actually able to get it including the postage for about the same price.

It may be worth checking for some items to see if it is cheaper via the official shop to see if it works out cheaper than shops here. Make sure you don't select euro as the currency as the exchange rate on the day would be more favourable.

DSB

Just thinking about it, if this transfer does go through for 18 million, neither us nor Liverpool fans are in a position to be slagging O'Neill. He'll have been just after nicking Liverpool blind so maybe that deadline business was better left where it was after all.

Villain

If we get 15 million and Finnan I'll be very happy, MON may have lost a PR compaign but I think he will win the fight and get what he wants.

DSB

Villain wrote: »

If we get 15 million and Finnan I'll be very happy, MON may have lost a PR compaign but I think he will win the fight and get what he wants.

I think he'll have won the PR campaign in the end. Once it all gos through people will start to think and realise Martin O'Neill realised all the objectives he set out in the first place. I feel really stupid for not thinking of this before.

eigrod

I really don't understand this "robbing Liverpool blind" mentality.

Of course it's a lot of money (£15m, £16m, £17m), whatever it may be. But Man Utd set down the marker by paying £17m for Hargreaves and up to £18m for Carrick. In my view Barry is at least as good as either of those. It's market value.

If Liverpool go on to challenge ManU and/or Chelsea right up to April/May and come out with a League title and/or CL, it'll be money very well spent. If they finish 4th again, then it will be questioned. Benitez will know that.

By consistently getting to the CL final/semi final/knockout stage over the last 3 or 4 years, it brings a return on large transfer outlay. Buying players like Barry & Keane, should at the very least ensure that this continues.

DSB

In my opinion Liverpool could get alot better for 18 million.

Villain

IMO Liverpool already have players for that position that are better.

Boggles

eigrod wrote: »

Of course it's a lot of money (£15m, £16m, £17m), whatever it may be. But Man Utd set down the marker by paying £17m for Hargreaves and up to £18m for Carrick. In my view Barry is at least as good as either of those. It's market value.

The pounds signs tend to flash whenever a selling club get involved with United. It's not like they intentionally set down these huge transfer markers. For what Hargreaves is and has acheived I would suggest it was correct market value. 17 million for a player who at Bayern won 4 league titles, a champions league and 3 or 4 cups. He was also bought at peak age for a midfielder, add to that his versatility and what he has achieved in 25 odd appearances for United so far plus he has 40 plus appearances for Enland. United may not have recouped the 17 million for Hargreaves yet but there is nothing to suggest they won't, next season is a big one for Hargreaves, at the end of last season he was on record as saying that he was just getting started and he didn't want it to end, this time coincided with his best performances.

As for Carrick he cost United 14 million with 4.6 to be added if he won a CL and a couple of league titles in a certain time frame, this was done in the shortest time possible. At the time there were eye brows raised, but what he acheived can only have lowered those eyes brows rapidly.

eigrod wrote: »

If Liverpool go on to challenge ManU and/or Chelsea right up to April/May and come out with a League title and/or CL, it'll be money very well spent. If they finish 4th again, then it will be questioned. Benitez will know that.

This is true, it is why Villa would never do a deal like United did with Spurs for Carrick. The chances of them getting a performance return is alot slimmer.

In the future we will get a clearer picture of the true value of Barry, it just doesn't depend on how well Liverpool do with him, it also depends on how Villa do without him, if he goes on to win the league with Liverpool and Villa finish 12th, has he proved himself worth 18 million, or do you think then Liverpool got a bargain and he was worth 25+.

Only time tells of the true value of a player.

PHB

More accurately, only time will tell whether or not the manager was right to pay the value of the player that he paid. Fergie was proven right on Carrick. On Hargreaves too, although why people would question the money we paid for Hargreaves is somewhat beyond me considering his stature as a player before he joined us.

DSB

I dunno if Fergie was justified in the signing of Carrick. I know they won stuff with him in the side and all but I'm of the opinion they'd have won the same with a cheaper alternative as he wasn't pivotal to the United team and at teams I considered him to be poor, others he has been better. Wouldn't consider him worth the transfer value though.

Boggles

DSB wrote: »

I dunno if Fergie was justified in the signing of Carrick. I know they won stuff with him in the side and all but I'm of the opinion they'd have won the same with a cheaper alternative as he wasn't pivotal to the United team and at teams I considered him to be poor, others he has been better. Wouldn't consider him worth the transfer value though.

Central midfield is pivotal to any successful team, nowhere to hide there, it is not a position you get away with being a passanger or being more bad that good.

He has played over a 100 games in 2 years, 2 league medals a champions league, and an fa cup runners up medal. That is not just "some stuff", don't forget aswell he replaced Keane in the team, huge burden on what was relatively young shoulders. To say he wasn't a big part in Uniteds success is simply not fair to the lad.

I've been a critic of Carrick in the past, but when I have seen him the odd few occasions live, I was extremely impressed.

DSB

I know what he has won. I just don't think that he was a major part in it, and that other players could have done what he did at a cheaper price. Either way, this isn't the thread for that discussion.