Aston Villa Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

MementoMori

wynters wrote: »

Would love to see this guy join us, but looking at the comparitive competition for full back positions at Everton and Villa, he'd probably have a better chance of first team football at Everton. That 2nd right-back position in the England World Cup squad (after Glen Johnson) is still up for grabs, so we shouldn't be suprised if he opts for Everton. Still think we could have had him by now had we been quicker on the draw a much more assertive in our approach... still not over yet though.

Would agree with a lot of this.

There's also the fact that Everton probably have a better record of giving youngsters a chance. After Arsenal, it's probably between Everton and West Ham in terms of numbers of youngster given a chance in the PL in the last few years. MON doesn't exactly have a huge record of giving younger players a chance.

I think the level of competition would be a key thing as well. Displacing Tony Hibbert isn't exactly the most. There's also the fact that the Everton back four are pretty settled as a unit whereas the Villa defence is a bit up in the air with the loss of Laursen.

In general I'd agree with the assessment of MON as being too slow in the transfer market.

Bounty Hunter

I read a number of posts from another forum where Boro fans are discussing the 18m Tuncay/Downing deal and they were referring to L.Young's move to Villa and how it showed how MON does business. Supposidly he contacts the selling club to ask permission to speak to the player and says that he will meet their valuation if it is realistic and if the deal is kept confidential (he may therefore pay a million or so over the odds but will negotiate if its far too much) after this he speaks to the player several times to find out what they are like and if they could fit in at Villa and then if all is good he will make his bid official and the transfer will go through almost immediatley and it will seem like it was all done in a day.

However should the club, player or media leak the story to the media Martin is liable to pull the plug on the whole deal. they suggest that this is what happened with Bentley last month and that since he has switched his attension towards Downing to be the man to rotate with Young & Milner on the wings.

This method whilst infuriating to fans of his club would suggest as seen with him before that nothing will happen for ages during transfer windows but then a number of deals could be done in a short space of time. So lets hope we are almost in that short space of time now

Esse85

Stubborness again, MON's way or no deal.

JPA

I don't really see any problem with that way of doing things.
Seems fairly normal.

Neil3030

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

I read a number of posts from another forum where Boro fans are discussing the 18m Tuncay/Downing deal and they were referring to L.Young's move to Villa and how it showed how MON does business. Supposidly he contacts the selling club to ask permission to speak to the player and says that he will meet their valuation if it is realistic and if the deal is kept confidential (he may therefore pay a million or so over the odds but will negotiate if its far too much) after this he speaks to the player several times to find out what they are like and if they could fit in at Villa and then if all is good he will make his bid official and the transfer will go through almost immediatley and it will seem like it was all done in a day.

However should the club, player or media leak the story to the media Martin is liable to pull the plug on the whole deal. they suggest that this is what happened with Bentley last month and that since he has switched his attension towards Downing to be the man to rotate with Young & Milner on the wings.

This method whilst infuriating to fans of his club would suggest as seen with him before that nothing will happen for ages during transfer windows but then a number of deals could be done in a short space of time. So lets hope we are almost in that short space of time now

Jesus, MON wouldn't last a day at Real Madrid or the like!!

Bounty Hunter

remember that isnt for sure what he does although it does make sense and ensure as DO'L would say he gets a good bunch of lads

it would also explain why Southgate etc says hes recieved no bids for said players as the bid isnt official yet and when it is itl probably go through that day instead it is one of the enquiries he admitted he had had

MementoMori

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

However should the club, player or media leak the story to the media Martin is liable to pull the plug on the whole deal. they suggest that this is what happened with Bentley last month and that since he has switched his attension towards Downing to be the man to rotate with Young & Milner on the wings.

On this - why the fup should it matter if the media find out about a possible deal ? I'd imagine in most cases it's not likely to affect matters that much.
There may be some cases where it might interfere with the deal but those would surely be in the minority. Are people seriouly suggesting that MON backs out of deals just because the media find out? If he does it's utter lunacy.

Bounty Hunter

MementoMori wrote: »

On this - why the fup should it matter if the media find out about a possible deal ? I'd imagine in most cases it's not likely to affect matters that much.
There may be some cases where it might interfere with the deal but those would surely be in the minority. Are people seriouly suggesting that MON backs out of deals just because the media find out? If he does it's utter lunacy.

well id say its more that if the player or club leak it it would mean that the player is looking for another club to come in for him or the club is looking for a bidding war for the player which MON wouldent want after agreeing to pay the asking price. He wouldent pull out just cos the media know what hes up to even though he may not want that

wynters

Being prudent and taking time to make sure the deal is right for Villa is all well and good, but ONLY if we're the only club interested in a player. That formula doesn't account for other clubs - our closest rivals City, Spurs and Everton more often than not - being interested in the same players at the same time during a restricted transfer period.

There's 3 or 4 clubs chasing the same types/calibre of players, so it's an all- out scramble. By right, any research that needs to be done into a players character or to see if he'd 'fit-in' should really have been done well before the transfer window opens. If that story is true, I'd wonder what the Villa scouts get paid for... coz they're sh/t.

JPA

wynters wrote: »

Being prudent and taking time to make sure the deal is right for Villa is all well and good, but ONLY if we're the only club interested in a player. That formula doesn't account for other clubs - our closest rivals City, Spurs and Everton more often than not - being interested in the same players at the same time during a restricted transfer period.

There's 3 or 4 clubs chasing the same types/calibre of players, so it's an all- out scramble. By right, any research that needs to be done into a players character or to see if he'd 'fit-in' should really have been done well before the transfer window opens. If that story is true, I'd wonder what the Villa scouts get paid for... coz they're sh/t.

How are you supposed to know if a player would fit in without talking to him?
And you're not allowed talk to players without permission from the club.

Superhands

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

I read a number of posts from another forum where Boro fans are discussing the 18m Tuncay/Downing deal and they were referring to L.Young's move to Villa and how it showed how MON does business. Supposidly he contacts the selling club to ask permission to speak to the player and says that he will meet their valuation if it is realistic and if the deal is kept confidential (he may therefore pay a million or so over the odds but will negotiate if its far too much) after this he speaks to the player several times to find out what they are like and if they could fit in at Villa and then if all is good he will make his bid official and the transfer will go through almost immediatley and it will seem like it was all done in a day.

However should the club, player or media leak the story to the media Martin is liable to pull the plug on the whole deal. they suggest that this is what happened with Bentley last month and that since he has switched his attension towards Downing to be the man to rotate with Young & Milner on the wings.

This method whilst infuriating to fans of his club would suggest as seen with him before that nothing will happen for ages during transfer windows but then a number of deals could be done in a short space of time. So lets hope we are almost in that short space of time now

very interesting - although seems crazy if that was the only reason to decide against moving for Bentley

Bounty Hunter

Superhands wrote: »

very interesting - although seems crazy if that was the only reason to decide against moving for Bentley

well most Villa fans seem to think Bentley is still a probable move although personally i dont see both him and downing joining as we already have Young & Milner but if they do and nobody leaves i wont complain.

people need to remember as well that "that forumla" as wynters put it isnt set in stone or even 100% accurate (although it makes sense considering our dealings) and of course if other teams come in for a player MON really wants he could accelerate his process once he believes that player will fit in.

Also if that formula is to be believed then it is wuite likely that we are looking at other players that the press hav no clue about because the player/club involved have done as MON would wish and kept stum.

wynters

JPA wrote: »

How are you supposed to know if a player would fit in without talking to him?
And you're not allowed talk to players without permission from the club.

... Footballers move in the same social circles, they live in the same affluent suburbs, play together on international teams, and have former team-mates, managers and coaches who'll know what they're like professionally... There's ways of indirectly finding out what a player is like on a personal and professional level via the football network. You shouldn't need to wait to speak to a player directly to have a fair idea of what he's like... that side of things should be boxed-off long before any approach is made.

Helix

wynters wrote: »

... Footballers move in the same social circles, they live in the same affluent suburbs, play together on international teams, and have former team-mates, managers and coaches who'll know what they're like professionally... There's ways of indirectly finding out what a player is like on a personal and professional level via the football network. You shouldn't need to wait to speak to a player directly to have a fair idea of what he's like... that side of things should be boxed-off long before any approach is made.

this x10000000

JPA

wynters wrote: »

... Footballers move in the same social circles, they live in the same affluent suburbs, play together on international teams, and have former team-mates, managers and coaches who'll know what they're like professionally... There's ways of indirectly finding out what a player is like on a personal and professional level via the football network. You shouldn't need to wait to speak to a player directly to have a fair idea of what he's like... that side of things should be boxed-off long before any approach is made.

Personally, I don't think you can asses a person until you meet them face to face, no matter what anyone else has said about them.

matrim

JPA wrote: »

Personally, I don't think you can asses a person until you meet them face to face, no matter what anyone else has said about them.

I'd agree with this. You can have an idea of what the person might be like but you can't make a yes or no call without meeting them yourself

Helix

matrim wrote: »

I'd agree with this. You can have an idea of what the person might be like but you can't make a yes or no call without meeting them yourself

definitely, but how many transfers to you reckon go through without the manager meeting the player before he puts pen to paper?

surely it doesnt have to be as drawn out and arduous as it would appear to be when we do it?

you could excuse it if every signing was mind blowingly brilliant too, but theyre not. its almost as if hes putting personality ahead of footballing ability at times if this is true

wynters

JPA wrote: »

Personally, I don't think you can asses a person until you meet them face to face, no matter what anyone else has said about them.

Well then you Sir, are a fool.

e.g.
Hitler / Vlad the Impaler / Ivan the Terrible / Jeffrey Dahmer - Bunch of cnuts.

Gandhi / Nelson Mandella / Mother Theresa / Paul McGrath - Sound.

Never met any of 'em, but I'd trust other people's word...

mink_man

wynters wrote: »

Well then you Sir, are a fool.

e.g.
Hitler / Vlad the Impaler / Ivan the Terrible / Jeffrey Dahmer - Bunch of cnuts.

Gandhi / Nelson Mandella / Mother Theresa / Paul McGrath - Sound.

Never met any of 'em, but I'd trust other people's word...

ah now?...hitler??

Helix

fraiser campbell to sunderland just went through

there might just be something to the rumours that we hijacked their deal for bent

ive been saying it for the last 2 years, he'll score an absolute bucketload in our team

JPA

Helix wrote: »

fraiser campbell to sunderland just went through

there might just be something to the rumours that we hijacked their deal for bent

ive been saying it for the last 2 years, he'll score an absolute bucketload in our team

Ya, I won't complain if we get Bent but I'll be gutted if Carew leaves.
Spurs want a bucket-load for Bent, almost what they paid for him and I can't see us paying that, but with Carew as part of the deal it could got through.
Hopefully Carew will stay and we also sign Bent, hopefully. :cool:

Helix

mon will be signing his own p45 if he lets carew go for less than an insane amount of money

spurs want £12m apparntly. which isnt all that much in this day and age, its a HELL of a lot less than the £16m they paid for him 2 years ago when you look at the way footie has gone since

ive no problem paying over the odds for first teamers, none whatsoever. its wasting money on "squad players" that really annoys me

matrim

I think Carew for Bent would be awful business. I like Bent and would like him at Villa but with Carew instead of to replace him.

Also, Knight is now being linked with a £3m move to either Bolton or Wolves

Mr Alan

Bent for 12m would be a good buy.

Would love Rafa to wind O'Neill up & make a move for Carew. Shame yous wouldnt accept vouchers for our club shop for him

be shocking to get rid of Carew.

Helix

matrim wrote: »

I think Carew for Bent would be awful business

would be, but i cant see it happening

if we're getting bent in itll be supplementary to jc not a replacement

JPA

Helix wrote: »

mon will be signing his own p45 if he lets carew go for less than an insane amount of money

spurs want £12m apparntly. which isnt all that much in this day and age, its a HELL of a lot less than the £16m they paid for him 2 years ago when you look at the way footie has gone since

ive no problem paying over the odds for first teamers, none whatsoever. its wasting money on "squad players" that really annoys me

Sunderland have supposedly bid £12 million and he was given permission to speak to them but I don't think that is the finalised fee.

Esse85

Carew wont be sold this season, FFS lads cop on.

JPA

Esse85 wrote: »

Carew wont be sold this season, FFS lads cop on.

An ITK says he will. Of course they are 90% BS.
Apparently MON AND randy were very pissed off at Carew last season and were willing to sell ASAP but his form has changed things. That is from mysteryman, a mostly reliable journo or something on VT.

Helix

JPA wrote: »

Sunderland have supposedly bid £12 million and he was given permission to speak to them but I don't think that is the finalised fee.

posted on another board i use which seems to confirm that we're interested and that he wants to join us

Bents best mate posts on a spurs board I use, on thursday he said that ye havent agreed a fee for Bent yet, we accepted a £14m bid from Sunderland for him and he agreed personal terms but he's definately holding out on them.

therecklessone

Lads, a headsup on cheapish flights:

Just booked retrun flights to Brum for Villa vs Spurs in November, it's a 5:15 kick off so I'm flying out of Dublin at 2pm and back home on the last flights.

€10, not to be sniffed at.

Helix

yeah theres some really great prices to be had right now

wynters

NOTW linking us that German U-21 kid Mesut Ozil... looked a very crafty player in that U-21 tournament. 16 assists in the Bundesliga last season.

Most papers running with the Downing story today... for a reported fee between £10m - 12m. If taking him now while he's crocked means we get a clear run at him without fffackng 'Arry! or Everton stickin their beaks in then it'll be a good piece of business...

Everton are supposed to be after Tuncay now! Naughton, Defour, now Tuncay.... do Everton have any scouts of their own?????

'See Bentley was attacked in a restaurant last night???

Esse85

Just heard that Bentley was punched in the face while out having dinner with his soon to be wife. Hope it wasnt any of you guys:p

Edit: Wynters, just saw you got there before me!

Neil3030

Not to be a pessimistic pedant, but was there any hardened proof we were ever actually in for Naughton, Defour or Tuncay?

wynters

How much 'hardened proof' do you ever get from Villa though...!? They were names that re-surfaced again and again and again - going back months... the Everton links to the same players only started to appear much later...

invincibleirish

There is indeed great prices to be had for cheapo flights cheers for the info. Tickets for Wigan on sale tomorrow for those with 5 game history, think i'm gonna have to go and clear the credit card debts from last season tomorrow and make this trip happen even if Big John heads to bright lights of London. Buy Bent, keep Carew and get rid of Heskey how is this not obvious?.

Helix

invincibleirish wrote: »

how is this not obvious?.

remember, our manager thinks he's god, so he sees what mortals cant

ahem

JPA

Helix wrote: »

remember, our manager thinks he's god, so he sees what mortals cant

ahem

Martin O'Neill thinks he's god? Does he really?

Helix

JPA wrote: »

Martin O'Neill thinks he's god? Does he really?

he must do

why else would the majority of his players be players with something to prove? he likes to "rebuild" players, or in the case of kids be the one who "makes" them

established players in their prime? oh no thanks, theres no credit to be had for bringing them in

JPA

Helix wrote: »

he must do

why else would the majority of his players be players with something to prove? he likes to "rebuild" players, or in the case of kids be the one who "makes" them

established players in their prime? oh no thanks, theres no credit to be had for bringing them in

And that means he thinks he's god?

Helix

JPA wrote: »

And that means he thinks he's god?

means hes got a god complex

he only buys flawed or unfinished players so that he can reap the rewards his ego desires if he can prove to everyone that he can rebuild them and make them the player they could never have been without martin o'neill

look it was a throwaway comment, stop being so bloody touchy about your precious mon

invincibleirish

Swapping Carew for Bent makes no sense whatsoever so lets hope the ITKs are in the wrong on this as well, you don't have to be pro/anti MON to realise this. How many qoutes have come out of VP over the past few months about strenghtening the squad by player and management?. Bent may have more games in him per season then Big John but with just Heskey as back up its a case of as you were with the Villa squad if Carew leaves.

Raekwon

I see Zola has come out and said he would be interested in signing Eidur Gudjohnsen. I wish MON would take his head out of arse for a few days and make some bloody signings, Gudjohnsen would be a good start.

matrim

wynters wrote: »

NOTW linking us that German U-21 kid Mesut Ozil... looked a very crafty player in that U-21 tournament. 16 assists in the Bundesliga last season.

I don't know much about him but from what I've heard he sounds good and has good stats from the Bundesliga last season and had a great U21 championship

Esse85

Raekwon wrote: »

I see Zola has come out and said he would be interested in signing Eidur Gudjohnsen. I wish MON would take his head out of arse for a few days and make some bloody signings, Gudjohnsen would be a good start.

It was refreshing to hear Zola's honesty in answering the question, makes a change from the usual drivel we hear.

DSB

Finger looks like its staying firmly in for good oul Martin.

Helix

DSB wrote: »

Finger looks like its staying firmly in for good oul Martin.

i wouldnt worry yet

itll only matter if we havent signed anyone after the window opens once we're back in preseason training a week before the start of the season

remember, mon is a world class manager who knows exactly what hes doing

Villain

Helix wrote: »

remember, mon is a world class manager who knows exactly what hes doing

yep

Helix

Villain wrote: »

yep

definitely, and who could argue with that

its not like he plays players in the wrong position, is tactically inept, refuses to drop his favourites, and wastes money in the transfer market

but sure even if he was, we'd still say he was brilliant until he left, then wed start saying he was a bit cat coz hes not our manager any more, and the new guy is instead the best manager in the world ever

JPA

wynters wrote: »

NOTW linking us that German U-21 kid Mesut Ozil... looked a very crafty player in that U-21 tournament. 16 assists in the Bundesliga last season.

I just can't see there being one bit of truth in this.