Aston Villa Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

orourkeda

Who can tell?

matrim

The Economist wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I know it depends. I want you to put it on record where you think Villa will finish, even with the uncertainty about transfers. Your best guess. The point is to measure your dis-satisfaction/pessimism/whatever. Then we can use it in six months' time to see how perceptions have changed and if the transfers have lived up to what we expected, not hoped for.

Go on. Be brave. A number between 1 and 20 won't hurt.

As I said, as it stands I think we can still get the players to get ahead of both Everton and Spurs so for me at the moment I'd say 6th

Helix

The Economist wrote: »

Yeah but...


is debatable. I mean would signing Warnock, Distin, some RB who can cover CB, Delph, and Catermole be considered a few typical MON signings or a good last 4 weeks? Very easily be argued either way. Say you dropped Delph, and added Ruud Van Nistelrooy and Upson. Would that count as amazing or just good?

I don't think I'm going to get an answer off you so nevermind tbh.

well then all i can possibly give you is where the current squad will finish, which was the first answer

to be fair, its a retarded question

youre essentially saying "where will we finish, based on signing or not signing any players who might or might not sign"

Time Magazine

Helix wrote: »

well then all i can possibly give you is where the current squad will finish, which was the first answer

to be fair, its a retarded question

youre essentially saying "where will we finish, based on signing or not signing any players who might or might not sign"

Nah it's not retarded. What it's asking you is what quality of player (and how many) do you think MON will sign, but with something clear and cut (league position) rather than something we can debate about (whether Warnock would be a good signing or not).

matrim

The Economist wrote: »

Nah it's not retarded. What it's asking you is what quality of player (and how many) do you think MON will sign, but with something clear and cut (league position) rather than something we can debate about (whether Warnock would be a good signing or not).

For me the types of signing we would need are

LB - Warnock would fit there fine for me
RB - as backup so either a promising youngster or an experienced older player would do me fine
CB X 2 - Someone like Distin and someone along the lines of Upson \ Hangeland
CM - I'm not too sure about who would be right for this, as so much depends on what formation we want to play. At the very least I want someone who actually wants to get on the ball and the skill to use it (which is easier said than done)
CF - someone who can offer us something different up front so for me Tuncay would suit for this

invincibleirish

Villa to finish in and around 8th to 10th place for me. Top 4 + City, Everton & Spurs to all finish above AV for sure. It'll be the Fulhams, West Hams and Sunderlands of this world Villa will be scrapping with without significant reinforcements to the squad.

Esse85

I can see players getting p1ssed off with the mananger soon, what must the likes of Ashley Young really be thinking, I know what he said yesterday but deep down i bet its a different story.

I thought the squad looked poor when the season ended, its an absolute shambles the state of it now just over 2 weeks before the start of the season.

villains77

6th with a bit of luck 5th depends on who he gets in really

DSB

Any lower than 6th, and MON must go.

orourkeda

DSB wrote: »

Any lower than 6th, and MON must go.

Why?

DSB

orourkeda wrote: »

Why?

Because it'll be 100% his fault, and should people sit by and watch while he undoes the position he brought Villa to, just because it was him who put us there?

orourkeda

DSB wrote: »

Because it'll be 100% his fault, and should people sit by and watch while he undoes the position he brought Villa to, just because it was him who put us there?

Thats an extremely shortsighted and narrow minded outlook. There can be no arguments that the club has made substantial progress under his management.

DSB

orourkeda wrote: »

Thats an extremely shortsighted and narrow minded outlook. There can be no arguments that the club has made substantial progress under his management.

Did I argue otherwise? That doesn't mean if he mucks it up (which I really think he is), he shouldn't be given his bike, and told to get on it.

orourkeda

DSB wrote: »

Did I argue otherwise? That doesn't mean if he mucks it up (which I really think he is), he shouldn't be given his bike, and told to get on it.

What exactly are you arguing? He hasnt mucked anything up yet. Why all this negativity? They havent even kicked a ball yet and people are suggesting the manager be sacked if they dont finish top 6 or CL. This is idiocy.

DSB

orourkeda wrote: »

What exactly are you arguing? He hasnt mucked anything up yet. Why all this negativity? They havent even kicked a ball yet and people are suggesting the manager be sacked if they dont finish top 6 or CL. This is idioicy.

Barry, Laursen, Knight, Taylor gone.
Downing brought in who can't play til December.
Squad was already dangerously small.
Its almost August.
This is bad management.
Idiocy is spelt like this.

Esse85

Finnan is joining Pompey, dunno why MON didnt sign him.

orourkeda

DSB wrote: »

Barry, Laursen, Knight, Taylor gone.
Downing brought in who can't play til December.
Squad was already dangerously small.
Its almost August.
This is bad management.
Idiocy is spelt like this.

It was a typo if you want to get petty about it.

Barry sold for an 8 figure profit
Laursen forced to retire through injury. (Nobody's fault)
Zat Knight wasnt a particularly good player but was still sold at a profit.
Stuart Taylor rarely played.

Kindly explain the bad management at play.

DSB

orourkeda wrote: »

It was a typo if you want to get petty about it.

Barry sold for an 8 figure profit
Laursen forced to retire through injury. (Nobody's fault)
Zat Knight wasnt a particularly good player but was still sold at a profit.
Stuart Taylor rarely played.

Kindly explain the bad management at play.

Right now, 8 figure profits, aren't what Villa need, they need a squad on the pitch,
Whether Laursen's injury was anyones fault or not, he still needs to be replaced like.
Yet again, the profit is irrelevant, when Villa are seriously understrength, they could go sell the whole squad and make a massive profit, but it wouldn't be good business. And he was also a MON signing.
Yes he didn't, and Villa need players who actually will.

Kinetic^

Esse85 wrote: »

Finnan is joining Pompey, dunno why MON didnt sign him.

Because he's gash.

orourkeda

DSB wrote: »

Right now, 8 figure profits, aren't what Villa need, they need a squad on the pitch,
Whether Laursen's injury was anyones fault or not, he still needs to be replaced like.
Yet again, the profit is irrelevant, when Villa are seriously understrength, they could go sell the whole squad and make a massive profit, but it wouldn't be good business. And he was also a MON signing.
Yes he didn't, and Villa need players who actually will.

You made accusations of mismanagement on the part of Martin O'Neill when quite clearly this is an absurd suggestion. He sold Gareth Barry because it was the right thing to do and the club were suitably paid for this. We all know Martin Laursen needs to be replaced. Its obvious the squad needs to be embellished but to suggest that the manager is mismanaging the club just doesnt hold up. Also to make the suggestion that profit doesnt matter in Modern day football is another fallacy.

orourkeda

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Because he's gash.

A good player. However, would it have been anything other that a stop gap signing

Helix

orourkeda wrote: »

Kindly explain the bad management at play.

clubs buy before they sell seems to be the excuse rolled out when people question why mon is slow in the market, yet we never seem to bother with that... we sell first and worry about replacement bodies later

the problem with that is 2 fold

1) you run the risk of teams bending you over a barrel as time ticks on. "oh villa want our center back do they? well lets ask for silly money since they have very little time left to bring someone in, if they want him that badly theyll pay it"

2) you run the risk of ONLY being able to bring in players nobody wants. they dont care if they go, and we're left sniffing around the rejects. leading to dodgy signings who arent going to play

lets be completely objective here. the season ended in may. the last window closed in february. now surely mon knew in january who hed like to bring in to improve the team. im sure it was more than a list of 2 or 3 players too. youd have to question the mindset of a manager who didnt have a list of about 10 players for each position listed in preferential order, im sure we're all agreed in that

now, what possible reason was there for us not to start inquiring and bidding on players from may onwards, since we knew we were going to need quite a few players in?

we may have been doing just that, but if we were and now we find ourselves staring the season kick off in the eyes with only a single signing to our name you would have to get an inkling that perhaps theres something not quite right.

the alternative is that we didnt do that, in which case you have to get an inkling that perhaps theres something not quite right

theres no use rolling out the "well other clubs havent signed many players" line either. other clubs didnt have to replace gareth barry and martin laursen BEFORE even thinking about strengthening the smallest squad in the permiership

maybe there are 6 or 7 great signings just around the corner, we'll know come september 2nd. but we cant talk about what hasnt happened, might happen and we hope happens right now. we have to look at the simple truth of it:

laursen is gone
barry is gone
we have 2 center backs at the club
we have one right back (now injured)
a left back the manager doesnt fancy
a left back just recovering from a career threatening injury
a midfielder the manager clearly doesnt rate as a midfielder and instead plays at right back
a left winger who cant play til december signed when arguably the left wing was the strongest part of the team
we are OUTBID on a £2.7m player
we sell zat knight, on what looks like the assumption that distin was ready to sign, only to have it now look like hes going to stay at pompey
we have a first team squad including only 16 players who have started a premiership game

the window has been open for 2 months now and the problems now are much as they were when it opened. there is 1 month left in the window. surely past form dictates that the issues will not be fixed in that time frame. do the "in mon we trust" brigade HONESTLY think that hes going to completely about turn to fly in the face of every season he's been a football manager, and suddenly bring in all the bodies required in a 4 week period?

now he might, im not saying he wont for sure. but this is real life, you look at the probability of things, and imo the probability of this isnt all that high

orourkeda

The simple explanation is to scrap the transfer window. Its a stupid system and only encourages panic buying and grossly inflates prices.

Esse85

Good post Helix

DSB

The worst part is that people are gonna see a few good results at the start of the season and be like 'told ya so'

Esse85

orourkeda wrote: »

The simple explanation is to scrap the transfer window. Its a stupid system and only encourages panic buying and grossly inflates prices.

Whats this got to do with anything??

We know the rules, everyone must operate within those rules.

DSB

orourkeda wrote: »

The simple explanation is to scrap the transfer window. Its a stupid system and only encourages panic buying and grossly inflates prices.

Yes because MON can't manage transfers when other managers can, the transfer window should be abolished.

Helix

orourkeda wrote: »

The simple explanation is to scrap the transfer window. Its a stupid system and only encourages panic buying and grossly inflates prices.

or prepare better for it?

orourkeda

We dont know what's being lined up on the transfer front. This is something we need to reserve judgement on until the window closes.

orourkeda

Helix wrote: »

or prepare better for it?

How?

Helix

orourkeda wrote: »

How?

as i said in that big post on the last page:

lets be completely objective here. the season ended in may. the last window closed in february. now surely mon knew in january who hed like to bring in to improve the team. im sure it was more than a list of 2 or 3 players too. youd have to question the mindset of a manager who didnt have a list of about 10 players for each position listed in preferential order, im sure we're all agreed in that

now, what possible reason was there for us not to start inquiring and bidding on players from may onwards, since we knew we were going to need quite a few players in?

we may have been doing just that, but if we were and now we find ourselves staring the season kick off in the eyes with only a single signing to our name you would have to get an inkling that perhaps theres something not quite right.

the alternative is that we didnt do that, in which case you have to get an inkling that perhaps theres something not quite right

orourkeda

Esse85 wrote: »

Whats this got to do with anything??

We know the rules, everyone must operate within those rules.

It takes away the panic buying. It also suits clubs lower down the leagues

orourkeda

Helix wrote: »

as i said in that big post on the last page:

This may have happened as youve said yourself. To call it bad management is unfair

Helix

orourkeda wrote: »

How do you know this hasnt happened?

did you even read what i posted? at all like? seriously?

Esse85

Why are you talking about this, its irrelevant.

Other clubs/managers cope, ours doesnt. Fact

orourkeda

Helix wrote: »

did you even read what i posted? at all like? seriously?

Its corrected. Relax

DSB

I honestly don't understand this chaps mindset. Messi MIGHT sign, but it won't happen.

orourkeda

Whats not quite right???

Helix

orourkeda wrote: »

This may have happened as youve said yourself. To call it bad management is unfair

lets say youre the manager of a shop

there are 2 shifts per day during the week, each requiring 3 staff. you have 6 weekday staff. its starting to take its toll, people need days off sick, for funerals for hospital appointments, but you dont bring in any more staff. you keep going with the 6. then all of a sudden 2 leave, and 2 are off long term sick. you dont have enough staff to get the job done

you knew you didnt have enough staff, people told you you didnt have enough staff, but you didnt get anything done about it for whatever reason

do you think youd keep your job?

Esse85

invincibleirish

Lets say you're the manager of a football club, with rich owners, in the richest league in the world. You spunk most of your money on so-sos but still fail to fill gaps in the team 4 years out from taking over. In the one season where rivals trip up and slowdown, an opportunity emerges for CL and is blown. Now the squad is threadbare, our rivals have improved immeasurably since the start of 2009 and Villa have, well, just stagnated.

orourkeda

Helix wrote: »

lets say youre the manager of a shop

there are 2 shifts per day during the week, each requiring 3 staff. you have 6 weekday staff. its starting to take its toll, people need days off sick, for funerals for hospital appointments, but you dont bring in any more staff. you keep going with the 6. then all of a sudden 2 leave, and 2 are off long term sick. you dont have enough staff to get the job done

you knew you didnt have enough staff, people told you you didnt have enough staff, but you didnt get anything done about it for whatever reason

do you think youd keep your job?

Isnt that what good management is supposed to be all about. It's still a problem that can be solved and i'm sure the backroom staff will do what they can to remedy this. The situation isnt ideal. However, it isny beyond redemption

Tomthepost

Here we go again!
God alot to respond to here today!

Truth is we have made one signing that in my mind will prove to be an excellent player for Villa.

Interesting to see the MON OUT brigade now complaining that we sold Knight when it was the same people that couldn't handle the fact he was a Villa player in the first place.

Whatever happened to players coming through the ranks? Is there no faith whatsoever that a few might emerge this season?

Helix, the 2.7m player? Who is that? Surely someone that we can do without given the figure.

An arguement was made that with 2 weeks left to the window closing the sellers pump up the price.
This can work both ways in fairness. Approach in May, sellers asks for a crazy amount. Player unhappy at not being left go or club desparately needs funds so they sell on deadline day for a fraction of what they were initially looking for.
We got Maloney for 1m i think?

I certainly don't want 8 signings for the sake of it.

Villa won their last league title with 13 players as I like to throw in now and then. Ok that was back then and things have changed but we now have a settled side that have played together for a few years and getting a little older and more experienced and obviously more used to playing with each other.

I do think we need about 3 first 11 players to be added but this still may happen in time for season KO.

I also want the younger players given a chance this season.

Helix

orourkeda wrote: »

Isnt that what good management is supposed to be all about. It's still a problem that can be solved and i'm sure the backroom staff will do what they can to remedy this. The situation isnt ideal. However, it isny beyond redemption

youre right its not beyond redemption, but would you not agree that it absolutely NEEDS to be redeemed before the window closes?

orourkeda

Esse85 wrote: »

Helpful.

DSB

orourkeda wrote: »

Helpful.

You've been watching too much Simpsons methinks.

orourkeda

invincibleirish wrote: »

Lets say you're the manager of a football club, with rich owners, in the richest league in the world. You spunk most of your money on so-sos but still fail to fill gaps in the team 4 years out from taking over. In the one season where rivals trip up and slowdown, an opportunity emerges for CL and is blown. Now the squad is threadbare, our rivals have improved immeasurably since the start of 2009 and Villa have, well, just stagnated.

Lets say a manager improves a team for 3 consecutive seasons and fans are complaining before the fourth season starts what do you say

Helix

Tomthepost wrote: »

Helix, the 2.7m player? Who is that? Surely someone that we can do without given the figure.

Stanislav Manolev, right back, signed for psv instead for £2.7m. we were outbid by both psv and cologne

Tomthepost wrote: »

I certainly don't want 8 signings for the sake of it.

nor i. i want them because we need them

Tomthepost wrote: »

Villa won their last league title with 13 players as I like to throw in now and then.

redundant in this day and age

Tomthepost wrote: »

Ok that was back then and things have changed but we now have a settled side

a settled side thats lost its captain and stand in captain, and a defender who despite being rubbish was a starting center back for the entire second half of the season. its not really so settled any more

orourkeda

Helix wrote: »

youre right its not beyond redemption, but would you not agree that it absolutely NEEDS to be redeemed before the window closes?

Absolutely. The squad needs to be strengthened. Thats clear. I just think he needs to keep a sense of perspective and to not part with crazy money for the sake of it

Helix

orourkeda wrote: »

Lets say a manager improves a team for 3 consecutive seasons and fans are complaining before the fourth season starts what do you say

it depends

are the fans complaining because of the points raised here? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61352763&postcount=7423

coz if they are, then theyre right