Aston Villa Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

JPA

Helix wrote: »

i dont think we're looking for someone who does what barry does, so you cant really say we need someone better than him. we DO need someone different tho, we're unable to unlock defences at the moment, and our lack of goals from set pieces this year has hurt us

I'm not sure if you're for or against Barry with that statement but if Barry stays at Villa he will be first choice for the next four years.
If we need something different it should be up front, someone clever, skilful, creative. Not much to ask for eh!

Helix

the comment was wholly neutral with respect to barry, it was just a response to someone saying we needed to replace him and someone else asking who we could get better than him. my point was i dont think if we were to get rid of him that we'd need a "better" version of him in instead, we'd need something completely different

Time Magazine

JPA wrote: »

If you could name a player that we could sign who will not only join us but actually be better than Barry I'd be shocked.

Helix wrote: »

the comment was wholly neutral with respect to barry, it was just a response to someone saying we needed to replace him and someone else asking who we could get better than him. my point was i dont think if we were to get rid of him that we'd need a "better" version of him in instead, we'd need something completely different

Exactly what I meant. This season Petrov has been doing the defensive midfielder role better than Barry ever did it. I know we wouldn't get anywhere near £18m for Barry anymore, but we'd never have gotten that for Petrov. So if it was a choice of selling Barry for ~£12m or Petrov for ~£5m, I'd sell Barry.

If we get CL football and around £10m for Barry there are a lot of players who we could afford and could reasonably buy. Tim Cahill springs to mind, but he's getting on. If we got CL Diego might be tempted from Werder Bremen, who were doing fairly crap this season last time I checked. Yoann Gourcuff might come if guaranteed first team football.... maybe.

Bounty Hunter

If we get CL football why the hell would we sell Barry?

Instead we would sign him up to a longer deal and still look for other players. TBH despite him being new Sidwell would be the one to loose out for me and sure Petrov isnt exactley young who knows how long we will get this form out of him when you conside his previous Villa form.

JPA

The Economist wrote: »

Exactly what I meant. This season Petrov has been doing the defensive midfielder role better than Barry ever did it. I know we wouldn't get anywhere near £18m for Barry anymore, but we'd never have gotten that for Petrov. So if it was a choice of selling Barry for ~£12m or Petrov for ~£5m, I'd sell Barry.

If we get CL football and around £10m for Barry there are a lot of players who we could afford and could reasonably buy. Tim Cahill springs to mind, but he's getting on. If we got CL Diego might be tempted from Werder Bremen, who were doing fairly crap this season last time I checked. Yoann Gourcuff might come if guaranteed first team football.... maybe.

But Barry was never a defensive midfielder and is one of our best players and best performers this season.
Maybe I'm missing something but why would we ever want to get rid of Barry?

Neil3030

Did anyone else think the team looked nervous today? I couldn't help but feel they were bottling a lot of passes and shots - hope it's not a sign they can't handle the pressure at the top...

Time Magazine

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

If we get CL football why the hell would we sell Barry?

Instead we would sign him up to a longer deal and still look for other players. TBH despite him being new Sidwell would be the one to loose out for me and sure Petrov isnt exactley young who knows how long we will get this form out of him when you conside his previous Villa form.

JPA wrote: »

But Barry was never a defensive midfielder and is one of our best players and best performers this season.
Maybe I'm missing something but why would we ever want to get rid of Barry?

As much as I liked us playing 4-5-1 I don't think it'll suit us long term. So with something like

Friedel
Young--Cuellar--Laursen--Bouma
Milner--Petrov--Barry--Young
Gabby--Carew
Subs: Guzan, Shorey, Davies, Reo-Coker, Sidwell, Heskey, Fonz.

as 4-4-2 but with a more attacking/creative role, only Petrov or Barry could go. I know GB isn't playing the role Petrov did in the 4-5-1 setup, but I think if one had to be dropped and sold (say to make room for our new man Diego) then if the choice was selling Barry for £12m or Petrov for £5m, then on this season's form I'd sell Barry. Of course I'd sell NRC or Sidwell first, but I can't see either Petrov or Barry happy on the bench. But I suppose at the end of the day we'd be playing enough matches to rotate a bit. My point was that we are a bit route one and it'd be great to add a little more.

Helix

JPA wrote: »

But Barry was never a defensive midfielder and is one of our best players and best performers this season.
Maybe I'm missing something but why would we ever want to get rid of Barry?

to step in here, i think barry offers us a certain amount of what he does best, but if we're to pursue a 4-4-2 formation (which we might not) it would be between replacing barry, or replacing petrov with someone who can unlock defences

barry doesnt seem to have that particular talent about him, so personally, i think if we were to go 4-4-2 in future, hes probably the one we'll get rid of. not because hes not brilliant for us at what he does, but more because what we need out of our non defensive midfielder is likely to be different to what barry offers us

*edit*

i see the economist has already answered with pretty much the exact same thing i wrote lol

Helix

Neil3030 wrote: »

Did anyone else think the team looked nervous today? I couldn't help but feel they were bottling a lot of passes and shots - hope it's not a sign they can't handle the pressure at the top...

there are a few heads in the team who i suspect might not be ready for high pressure situations just yet, ash being one of them

im not saying theyll never be ready, i just think that this season might be a bit early

JPA

This is one of those silly arguments with no real point, but if Barry stays at villa for the next few years, whatever formation we play, he will be a part of it.

matrim

Neil3030 wrote: »

Did anyone else think the team looked nervous today? I couldn't help but feel they were bottling a lot of passes and shots - hope it's not a sign they can't handle the pressure at the top...

Yeah, I thought this too.

I also thought we looked very slow. Normally we're alot faster to get \ release the ball upfront but we just looked sluggish. We really need a bit of a break to give the players a rest

Neil3030

Speaking of Gaz, NOTW stick their oar in once again:

BARRY VOW TO VILLA
Qualify for Champions League and I'll stay

QUALIFIED PROMISE - Aston Villa skipper Gareth Barry

By DAVID HARRISON, 21/02/2009
GARETH BARRY is ready to commit his future to Aston Villa — IF they qualify for the Champions League.

The England midfielder is yet to sign a new deal at Villa amid fresh rumours of a summer move to Liverpool. But Barry, who wanted to make an £18million switch to Anfield at the start of the season, is prepared to snub the Reds’ renewed advances if Villa secure a top-four finish.

Barry, who turns 28 tomorrow, said: “There’s nowhere else I would want to be playing at the highest level. It’s easy for me to want Aston Villa to play Champions League football. It is also easy for me to give 100 per cent when I am playing for Villa — and to want them to finish as high as possible
Fresh

“It has been great to be loyal to one club for all these years and have that good rapport with the fans. To play at the very top level is even better. The games are coming thick and fast now but I am looking forward to each one of them.

“I feel fresh because the manager has rotated the squad well.”

Bounty Hunter

Villa: Stoke (h), Man City (a), Spurs (h), Liverpool (a), Man utd (a), Everton (H)

these our our next 6 games and atm we have 6 points more than Arsenal who have a easy (in comparison next 6)

Arsenal: Fulham (h), WBA (a), Blackburn (h), Newcastle (a) Man City (h), Wigan (A)

There are 18 points up for grabes during these games and after these Villa's fixture list gets a lot easier (in comparioson to the above 6) going into the final 6 games of the season while Arsenal have games against both Man utd and Chelsea on the horizon. If we are on a similar points tally to Arsenal going into these final 6 games we should have a huge chance to get a CL spot this season.

With Arsenal's form not being brilliant itself atm (0-0 draws at Sunderland isnt whatts expected if they are to catch us) I wouldent think that full points for Arsenal from those 6 games should be expected, so assuming they win atleast 4 and draw the other two giving them 14points minimum from those six that would mean Villa would need to pick up atleast 8 points from their six games and I think that is very possible.

my predictions:
Stoke (h) Win
Man City (a) Draw
Spurs (h) Win
Liverpool (a) Draw
Man utd (a) Loss
Everton (H) Draw.................9pts total

this would leave us on around the same tally as Arsenal but with the following games left:

Aston Villa: West Ham (H) Bolton (A) Hull (H) Fulham (A) Boro (A) Newcastle (H)

Arsenal: Liverpool (A) Middelsboro (H)Portsmouth (A) Chelsea (H) Man Utd (A) Stoke (H)

In essence you can split the remaining season into first half really tough Villa fixtures and the 2nd much harder Arsenal fixtures so if we can get a respectable points haul from our next six league games id be fairly confident of us doing better than Arsenal in the final 6 games of the season. Im actually more confident atm than I was before the weekends games despite Villa's loss, but this next couple of games is going to be a huges test and kicking it off with a win vs Stoke and revenge for defeat earlier in the season at the brittania is essential.

invincibleirish

I think its simple really Villa have to start winning the home games. Our brilliant away form has masked our sometimes average home results. The away record will be sorely tested with trips to City/Pool & Man Utd. Only Everton out of the top half of the table have won less home games then Villa so far.

so 6 home games left, all winnable, pick up near maximum points at home will push Villa nearer to the magic 70 point mark. Then continue our away day exploits and allowing for defeats at the 3 places above Villa need to win or avoid defeat against Fulham/Boro/ & Bolton to take us into the CL.

Villain

Everton dropped 2 points today which is good news as they are on a great run and I feared they might get into the mix for 4th and 5th and they still might.

If we could get 9 points from the next 3 it would be great as I think we will struggle in the following 3 games.

Savman

League table makes for interesting reading. Villa lie 11pts behind Man U so we can catch them as soon as there's a cold day in hell.

6pts ahead of Arsenal is not comfortable by any means however being just 1 behind Chelsea and 5 behind Liverpool means our faith very much remains in our own hands.

The most likely scenario is that Liverpool and Chelsea will fight for 2nd place and Villa/Arsenal to fight for 4th. I think Villa have been in better form and are in better shape even though Arsenal can never be written off I don't think we'll see the best of them til next season.

So, I will predict:
1. United
2. Chelsea
3. Liverpool
4. Villa
5. Arsenal

invincibleirish

Oh you've jinxed it now Savman. I can't call it because its out of our hands now, the hard part was building the lead now its over to Arsenal to see if they can build an unbeaten run like we did over the winter months, they are still well capable of doing so.

A win against Stoke and everything is back on track. Just this tricky Moscow affair to come now.

Neil3030

LOL how funny would it be if Villa get the CL, but due to competition in CMs brought about by the arrival of a new creative midfielder, MON declares the CL Petrov's tourney and only plays Barry in the league. Oh I would rofl...

Savman

invincibleirish wrote: »

its out of our hands now

Er, so long as we maintain sufficient clearance between us and Arsenal, it's advantage Villa. We're not reliant on anyone else (yet). I'm only pointing out the obvious here, by a quick glance at the league table and the way it's shaping up.

Arsenal will make a dash for 4th and we'll have to be in feckin top form to keep our noses in front because I'm fairly sure they will be breathing down our necks all the way. We knew this would be a tricky run of games and, thankfully whatever happens in the cups, our PL campaign is still intact with a great win against Blackburn and a loss to Chelsea which carries no shame.

We're still there or thereabouts and a fairly possible win against Stoke would be a nice turnaround.

DSB

Spurs and City are games Villa would wanna be winning if they're gonna be a CL team anyway.

Time Magazine

Villa 3/1 to beat CSKA on Betfair and 7/1 for draw at half-time + Villa win on PaddyPower. 2-0 to Villa is 19/1. All good bets imho.

L'prof

The Economist wrote: »

Villa 3/1 to beat CSKA on Betfair and 7/1 for draw at half-time + Villa win on PaddyPower. 2-0 to Villa is 19/1. All good bets imho.

I'd back a draw as I think it's the best Villa can hope for on that plastic pitch in Moscow, but I'd like to see them go through!

Savman

Just watched highlights of Villa V Chelsea, seemed that it was a standard game between 2 good, if different, teams. You have to give credit where it's due, the goal they scored would undo any defence in the world, absolutely stunning from both Lamps and le Sulk. Young's free against the bar had Cech well beaten and if Gabby had a bit more composure he might have stuck that chance in. All in all, it shows how far we've come that we can match up to a team of that calibre and be bitterly disappointed with a loss.

I mean, just look thru their teamsheet ffs. Deco, Ballack, Lampard, Anelka, Drogba :eek:

Anyway moving on, my view these days is that we are 2 big players away from being a real quality side. What we need is another Ashley Young, maybe in a more central role, we have everything now except that bit of magic that can flip a game on its head (a la Messr Lampard). That type of player, and maybe a dirty old fashioned goalscorer would be the icing on the cake IMHO.

At this stage you really have to say feck CKSA, we have to go hell for leather for CL qualification. I'd still expect MON to put out a half decent side in Moscow, moreso out of pride and appreciation for the travelling fans who are taking a daunting trip and deserve more than a youths and reserve team mish mash.

Doodee

Suazo and Diego in the summer?
One can dream


I'd like to see a win in Moscow myself, but I'm worried about just how much that could effect our PL chances.
We have lost to Borough, Fulham and Stoke in the past. Fulham are also playing some good football right now and deserve that 8th spot they have taken.

wynters

Yeah the UEFA Cup thing is not something we should be too concerned about now... Even IF we risk playing a full-strength side and were to win in Moscow, it looks like the next round opponents would be Donetsk! Do we really need another away game in a far-eastern destination? The UEFA Cup last 16 games would be on March 12th and March 18th, which would give us the following run of fixtures;

04/03 Man City (a)
12/03 UEFA 1st leg
15/03 Spurs (h)
18/03 UEFA 2nd leg
22/03 Liverpool (a)

... Those Premiership games look a little easier on paper without the UEFA games. We're down to the bear bones on centre-halves as it is and there's also 2 England games on March 28th and April 1st that most of the first team will be called up for...

CL qualification means we keep Barry, and would open the door to signing a new calibre of player. Considering the position we're in, maybe it's time to be sensible about the UEFA Cup and just send-out a reserve team on Thursday.

DSB

Spurs, City and Liverpool all have Europe too, although I don't think Spurs are caring too much about it.

Bounty Hunter

DSB wrote: »

Spurs, City and Liverpool all have Europe too, although I don't think Spurs are caring too much about it.

Yup Spurs are only going to have one more game in europe, im actually not sure if i want the same fate for Villa atm (is that wrong?), Hopefully Arsenal will have as many european games as possible without winning the thing. I would really really hate if Villa came 4th and still somehow didnt get CL football.

Savman

wynters wrote: »

04/03 Man City (a)
12/03 UEFA 1st leg
15/03 Spurs (h)
18/03 UEFA 2nd leg
22/03 Liverpool (a)

Balls to that!

Bounty Hunter

Doodee wrote: »

Suazo and Diego in the summer?
One can dream

do you mean Humberto the chilean or more likely David Suazo from Benfica?

if its the latter id doubt it just cos hed be 30 by then and having already signed an experienced striker in Heskey id expect someone slightly younger Luis Suárez from Ajax would be ideal imo.

but if we get CL football maybe it could be more than a dream to have such players at Villa park maybe they would wanna come, maybe not Diego (who im sure would have a few suiters should he move) but players of his ilk whynot.

invincibleirish

I'll happily take a second string side losing in Moscow, that leaves 12 games whilst Liverpool, Arsenal & Chelsea all soldier on in the CL. With a pinch of luck FSW and SAF will be doing the rotation dance leaving Villa well able to focus on getting results at their places.

I will be cheering Arsenals progress in the FA Cup & CL, the more distractions the better. Hopefully of course they'll get knocked out of the CL in S/F, don't think i could take seeing Villa take 4th with Arsenal winning the CL days later:(.

DSB

Villa desperately need a win against Moscow. 4 games without a win won't do much for that amazing run of form the lads had and certainly will start to put doubts in the mind. Get 2 early goals and then bring some young lads on, do the same against Stoke. The team are well capable.

villains77

any one know of any villa pubs in kerry/cork be going down for a few days this weekend and want to catch a match somewhere if its on. i know there's a man u pub in killarney allright

invincibleirish

I do think MON will put out a strong side in Moscow. But i would think perhaps Petrov & Gabby need some bench time. Sidwell and Fonz/Carew can step in.

invincibleirish

villains77 wrote: »

any one know of any villa pubs in kerry/cork be going down for a few days this weekend and want to catch a match somewhere if its on. i know there's a man u pub in killarney allright

I dunno about any Villa pubs, but i think game is on Setanta Ireland so most places should have it on if they're showing football.

Samurai

villains77 wrote: »

any one know of any villa pubs in kerry/cork be going down for a few days this weekend and want to catch a match somewhere if its on. i know there's a man u pub in killarney allright

theres none in cork anyway

villains77

cheers for that. is it as 3 pm kick off.

JPA

invincibleirish wrote: »

I do think MON will put out a strong side in Moscow. But i would think perhaps Petrov & Gabby need some bench time. Sidwell and Fonz/Carew can step in.

If sidwell replaces Petrov we will lose. full stop.

Kick off is 5 pm our time.

invincibleirish

I'm jus' saying thats all. MON has said he'll consider rotation, Petrov looks tired, Gabby also. Shorey uses the UEFA Cup for his redemption, Sidwell can do so as well.

Bounty Hunter

Am i the only one who wouldent mind seing Shorey get a a chance and a run out in the prem again against Stoke with Young going back to RB and prob Cuellar and Davies in CD?

Doodee

When did the Sidwell hate train leave the station? I appear to have missed it

Bounty Hunter

Doodee wrote: »

When did the Sidwell hate train leave the station? I appear to have missed it

The second we went back to 4-4-2 afaik as he is now no longer considerd good enough for the 1st team. alright sub though

invincibleirish

The consesnsus appears to be the best won't be seen of him until next season. But he's been back 3 months and played a lot of football. Just needs a big game/goals.

Savman

I like Sidwell, but no way ahead of Petrov especially in european competition where Petrov comes into his own. Stan for CSKA, Ginge for Stoke

wynters

I don't think Sidwell's been doing TOO bad has he...??? A couple of costly mistakes perhaps but nothing worth being singled-out for... He just seems to be the one making way for Heskey/Carew at the moment.

Actually, if you look at the games he played since his season started at the end of October, results would suggest we were actually doing better with him IN the team...!

Neil3030

Actually, if you look at the games he played since his season started at the end of October, results would suggest we were actually doing better with him IN the team...!

That's more a result of us playin 4-5-1 than Sidwell being in the team to be honest.

Besides, Sidwell is far more attacking minded a player than Petrov. Not in competition with each other. I'd like to see Petrov and Sidwell start in a 4-4-2 some time, maybe when Barry is being rested/suspended. I think then we'll see the best of him.

One Cold Hand

wynters wrote: »

I don't think Sidwell's been doing TOO bad has he...??? A couple of costly mistakes perhaps but nothing worth being singled-out for... He just seems to be the one making way for Heskey/Carew at the moment.

Actually, if you look at the games he played since his season started at the end of October, results would suggest we were actually doing better with him IN the team...!

I think that's more to do with the formation than Sidwell himself. When he's played we've played 4-5-1 which I think we've been more effective with. As you say, he's had to make way for Heskey/Carew. I'd prefer to have seen us stick with 4-5-1 (or a version of it) versus Chelsea. We only needed a draw against them and 3 in the centre of midfield would have helped us to manage their midfield better.

But yeah, I basically agree with you...he hasn't been terrible.

invincibleirish

Ok then Petrov for CSKA and NRC to return and let him take a breather against Stoke?

One Cold Hand

Neil3030 wrote: »

That's more a result of us playin 4-5-1 than Sidwell being in the team to be honest.

One Cold Hand wrote: »

I think that's more to do with the formation than Sidwell himself.

Great minds...

matrim

in a 442, i'd see sidwell as a replacment for barry not petrov.
One part of me would like to see carew and heskey up front against cska. Although that would mean less pace up front for us to play a counter attacking style.

Samurai

barry ash gabby petrov and heskey all out of squad for moscow, good news i suppose