Aston Villa Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

slingerz

Helix wrote: »

why? hes rubbish

:eek:

I'd take him off ye no bother.

L'prof

Helix wrote: »

why? hes rubbish

Swap you for Bendtner???

wynters

I've always been a fan of Agbonlahor. There's no question he's out of sorts at the moment, but he's chalked-up 10 PL goals and 8 assists so far this season. Only Anelka (15) and Robinho (11) have scored more, but their assists number only 1 and 4 respsectively, so statistically (I said statistically!!!!) Agbonlahor is the better team-player! Only Berbatov (9) has more assists.

On current form we're not really expected to get anything from the Liverpool and United games, so I'd leave Gabby in the side, in the hope that he might nick a goal and get some confidence back. Dropping him now would only further effect his confidence so there's no real point in making that situation any worse considering the opponents...

'People' (i.e. YOU Helix! ) call for Gabby to be dropped and for us to stop playing 'hoofball'... Fair cop, but that would more than likely leave us with Heskey & Carew partnership up-front, two of the most hoofball-friendly front men in the league! The long-ball situation will only get worse if Gabbys pace is removed from the equation and a 2nd back-to-goal striker plays instead. Those passes behind the full back for Gabby to chase will just become hoofs to the edge of the box if those two are paired up front...

For me, the Heskey signing is fast becoming one of Faustino Asprilla proportions! We were flying until he came in. Don't like to make a scapegoat of any player (the way some people are doing with Gabby!) but Heskey hasn't really shown ANY understanding with our other attacking players so far...??? Young/Carew, Young/Gabby, Carew/Gabby, Milner/Carew... they all seem to have a cohesiveness. They know each others game. Heskey doesn't seem to have anything even close to that yet!? Since he joined, he's scored only one goal (on his debut), and hasn't contributed a single assist, the very thing he was bought for.

He's also taken one of the midfielders places so a winning 4-5-1 system has changed to accomodate him.

A better & more solid defence (with the players we have coming back) will give midfielders licence to push forward a bit more, who do you want running onto their through balls - Gabby or Heskey?

If you're defending from the front then Heskey is a good option, but we need goals, and Heskey is undoubtedly less of a goal threat compared to the other two, so he'd be the one I'd drop.

Helix

wynters wrote: »

'People' (i.e. YOU Helix! ) call for Gabby to be dropped and for us to stop playing 'hoofball'... Fair cop, but that would more than likely leave us with Heskey & Carew partnership up-front, two of the most hoofball-friendly front men in the league! The long-ball situation will only get worse if Gabbys pace is removed from the equation and a 2nd back-to-goal striker plays instead

not at all

if you paid attention to us youd see that as soon as carew comes on we immediately gain a lot more width, and things stop going to young 99% of the time

milner comes into play a lot more and we end up putting more balls in the box rather than hitting them for people to chase

carew up top on his own with someone (barry) attacking from the middle is far preferable to hit and hope

Helix

slingerz wrote: »

:eek:

I'd take him off ye no bother.

have you ever actually watched the chap play tho? or are you basing it on the fact that he scored a few goals earlier in the season?

he has no touch, no skill, cant beat players, cant pass, cant cross, and misses more sitters than ive ever seen another player manage

plus hes lazy as sin

tok9

tbh i think he's completely overrated just cause he's english... All he has is pace imo. He misses far too many chances but i suppose he's still young and could prove me wrong! Although i'd be extremely surprised if he did

whatawaster

Agbonlahor would be a terrible signing for Liverpool. Firstly, he'd cost loads. Secondly, why not just let the infinitely more talented Babel waste chances for us for free?

invincibleirish

Bring back 451, Drop Heskey & Gabby.

Pray for the Return of Laursen and accept Villa over achieved for the first 2/3 of the season.

Look forward to the summer.

wynters

haha "If you paid attention"!!!!

There's no question Carew on his own up front would be the best option at the moment, but does MON see it like that??? Why is he persisting with two up front? Can you see him changing that? And who would you bring into midfield to go 4-5-1?

Helix

whatawaster wrote: »

why not just let the infinitely more talented Babel waste chances for us for free?

ahahah sums it up perfectly

would even work if you stuck kuyt in in place of babel

tok9

slingerz wrote: »

The fact that Villa fans would even consider selling Aghbonlahor is beyond belief to me.

I'd love for Liverpool to give Villa £50 million for Barry, Aghbonlahor and Young. That would be good shopping for me.

How much would agbonlahor cost!!
talking 13-15 for barry
Young 25-30
Agbonlahor 5-7 mill!
He'd be shown up for his poor finishing at pool... no offense to villa

Helix

wynters wrote: »

haha "If you paid attention"!!!!

There's no question Carew on his own up front would be the best option at the moment, but does MON see it like that??? Why is he persisting with two up front? Can you see him changing that? And who would you bring into midfield to go 4-5-1?

well you clearly dont pay attention if youre saying that carew up top means even more hit and hope, because it doesnt. as soon as he comes onto the pitch we spread the play out both wings immediately and therefore look infinitely more dangerous

midfield id go for would be

---

barry

---

young---petrov---reo coker---milner

and actually let barry play some football for a change

Helix

tok9 wrote: »

He'd be shown up for his poor finishing at pool... no offense to villa

hes already been shown up for it at villa, i dont think he'd look any worse at liverpool tbh

a decent player would have 20+ goals at the villa already with the amount of great chances gabby manages to balls up

wynters

Helix wrote: »

well you clearly dont pay attention if youre saying that carew up top means even more hit and hope, because it doesnt. as soon as he comes onto the pitch we spread the play out both wings immediately and therefore look infinitely more dangerous

midfield id go for would be

---

barry

---

young---petrov---reo coker---milner

and actually let barry play some football for a change

If YOU paid attention to my original post David Brent, you'd see I was talking about a Heskey-Carew 'partnership'! Nothing derogatory about Carew or his impact on games when he comes on. Are we on the same side here or wha'?

Helix

i never mentioned a heskey carew partnership tho

wynters

tok9 wrote: »

How much would agbonlahor cost!!
talking 13-15 for barry

Barry can buy himself out of the remainder of his contract at the end of this season by effecting the Webster ruling. We won't get a penny for him in terms of transfer fee.

Helix

wynters wrote: »

Barry can buy himself out of the remainder of his contract at the end of this season by effecting the Webster ruling. We won't get a penny for him in terms of transfer fee.

only if he doesnt go to another club in england tho

and theres been no foreign interest, so we will get a fee

L'prof

wynters wrote: »

Barry can buy himself out of the remainder of his contract at the end of this season by effecting the Webster ruling. We won't get a penny for him in terms of transfer fee.

I don't think he'll be using the Webster ruling to be honest!

wynters

Helix wrote: »

only if he doesnt go to another club in england tho

and theres been no foreign interest, so we will get a fee

ahhHHHhhhh! Nice.

L'prof

Helix wrote: »

only if he doesnt go to another club in england tho

and theres been no foreign interest, so we will get a fee

Article 17 of FIFA's Regulations for the Status and Transfer of Players is entitled "Consequences of Terminating a Contract Without Just Cause", and is the fifth article of Chapter IV, "Maintenance of Contractual Stability between Professionals and Clubs". It outlines the provisions which apply if a contract is terminated without just cause, and the requirement for the party in breach to pay compensation.[9] Specifically, it states that any player who signed a contract before the age of 28 can buy himself out of the contract three years after the deal was signed. The window is shortened to two years if he is 28 or older.[10][11] Article 17 was introduced in December 2004, with effect from 1 July 2005.[12]

Link

Ye'll get money for him no matter what!

slingerz

Helix wrote: »

only if he doesnt go to another club in england tho

and theres been no foreign interest, so we will get a fee

I'd say £10 million at the most

JPA

I hate Villa fans sometimes.


I mean really fecking hate after a sweep through the forums. Miserable shower of pessimists.

therecklessone

Helix wrote: »

only if he doesnt go to another club in england tho

Where is that in the regs?

Helix

therecklessone wrote: »

Where is that in the regs?

not sure buit ive seen it cited several times, the webster only applies if its to leave your club for a team in another country

therecklessone

Helix wrote: »

not sure buit ive seen it cited several times, the webster only applies if its to leave your club for a team in another country

Not my reading of it.

From what I have read there's scope for Villa to get more than just his years wages off him if he choose to exercise Webster.

The original case saw Hearts awarded £625k compensation where they had looked for £5m, and Webster's legal team argued for £250k. The appeal found Wigan were not at fault, but questioned the role of his agent, and the final sum was in part to reflect his future earning potential. If Barry does move, I'd say Villa could argue last summer's transfer saga played a huge part in his decision and FIFA might add a few extra £ on. They can also find the plaer and his new club jointly responsible.

That said, I'd be stunned if Villa got more than half of what was on offer last summer.

Helix

id take £8m no problem tbh, we wont get much more

i think the departure of barry will give mon the kick in the arse he needs to bring in the creative player we've been crying out for for so long

therecklessone

Actually, I've just seen the CAS ruling on Webster's appeal.

The final compensation was a paltry £150k.

Seems Barry might just be able to walk for a year's wages...:eek:

therecklessone

http://www.tas-cas.org/d2wfiles/document/363/5048/0/CAS%201298%201299%201300%20Award.pdf

There's the CAS judgement if you're really interested.

JPA

Barry would never use the Webster ruling so it's all irrelevant.

Neil3030

Who coaches the forwards at Villa? I think they have as much a part to play in Gabby ineffectiveness as anyone tbh. 3-4 years playing professionally in the premiership and he still shows no movement in the box when the ball's out wide?

Anyone who quotes these basic stats to get Gabby's back either doesn't watch Villa matches or knows very little about football. Yes, he has 10 goals and 8 assists this season, that's all well and good, but against what teams and under what circumstances did he score his goals? How many sitters has he since missed? How many times has he stood motionless in the penalty area while the ball is out wide, while being comfortably marked? How many times has he given the ball away? How many times is there a simply pass available that he either blithely ignores or just doesn't have the cop to recognise?

I think Helix said it best earlier on when he said that any decent striker, if given the same run of games in our first team as Gabby, would be touching 20 goals right now, no question.

Gabby is a better than average player, he shows flashes of brilliance and lightning pace, but there is little else to his game. Now if that's the fault of the coaching staff, then that needs to be seriously looked at, but I'd be inclined to doubt it.

I would happily see MON take 15m for him (if anyone'd pay it) and go sign a goal scorer.

JPA

I think Helix said it best earlier on when he said that any decent striker, if given the same run of games in our first team as Gabby, would be touching 20 goals right now, no question.

And yet the top scorer in the league right now is on 15?
Gabby has been very ineffective recently but the long balls to him don't help. How many of them has he scored from?
I'm not denying he has been playing badly but when a team has a slump, 1 or 2 players always get blamed when the fact is that the team collectively started playing badly which affects everyone.
Ashley Young has been playing badly, but noone is suggesting we sell him.

Isn't it just obvious that Gabby is out of form and down on confidence? He's never had the greatest footballing brain but with the right ball to him he is lethal.

Helix

ashley young is a good player with plenty about him tho, gabby is not

Neil3030

JPA wrote: »

And yet the top scorer in the league right now is on 15?
Gabby has been very ineffective recently but the long balls to him don't help. How many of them has he scored from?
I'm not denying he has been playing badly but when a team has a slump, 1 or 2 players always get blamed when the fact is that the team collectively started playing badly which affects everyone.
Ashley Young has been playing badly, but noone is suggesting we sell him.

Isn't it just obvious that Gabby is out of form and down on confidence? He's never had the greatest footballing brain but with the right ball to him he is lethal.

Look at the team's he's scored against:

Man City 3
Bolton 2
Blackburn 2
West Brom 1
Wigan 1
Arsenal 1

Now I'll happily admit he had a blinder against Arsenal, but aside from that, he has scored against 5 clubs this season. Now look at his assists, aside from the clubs mentioned above, he has contributed an assist against:

Everton
Portsmouth
Sunderland

So in total, he has either scored or created a chance against 9 teams, most of which are in the bottom half of the table or fighting for relegation. People really need to get beyond blindly accepting numbers and figures as a measure of the player and start watching the lad play, seeing what he's not doing that other strikers would and the chances he has to either score or at least get open (part of the reason Ash has been so poor is that Gabby makes NO effort to get open when Ash has it out wide).

Esse85

A.Young has every chance of playing in the champions league if not with Villa, then take your pick from: Arsenal, Man Utd, R.Madrid, Barca etc....

The only chance Gabby has of playing CL football is with Villa, the above mentioned teams would have no interest in him.

x in the city

Neil3030 wrote: »

Who coaches the forwards at Villa? I think they have as much a part to play in Gabby ineffectiveness as anyone tbh. 3-4 years playing professionally in the premiership and he still shows no movement in the box when the ball's out wide?

Anyone who quotes these basic stats to get Gabby's back either doesn't watch Villa matches or knows very little about football. Yes, he has 10 goals and 8 assists this season, that's all well and good, but against what teams and under what circumstances did he score his goals? How many sitters has he since missed? How many times has he stood motionless in the penalty area while the ball is out wide, while being comfortably marked? How many times has he given the ball away? How many times is there a simply pass available that he either blithely ignores or just doesn't have the cop to recognise?

I think Helix said it best earlier on when he said that any decent striker, if given the same run of games in our first team as Gabby, would be touching 20 goals right now, no question.

Gabby is a better than average player, he shows flashes of brilliance and lightning pace, but there is little else to his game. Now if that's the fault of the coaching staff, then that needs to be seriously looked at, but I'd be inclined to doubt it.

I would happily see MON take 15m for him (if anyone'd pay it) and go sign a goal scorer.

:rolleyes:

Helix

x in the city wrote: »

:rolleyes:

id be happy with 10m tbh, but as this thread shows there are people (non villa fans especially) who for some reason have bought the hype, so i think we could probably get more

JPA

Obviously players score more against the lesser teams.
But he can't be singled out like that. Players do less against better teams and better players. That's the most obvious thing in the world. IF we had better players supplying the ball for him he'd probably have more goals

If we were leading the league and Gabby was underperforming against all the better teams there would be a more convincing case against him.
But what about that period of 13 unbeaten when he was up front on his own running his arse off against lost causes, keeping the opposition on their toes.

There's no numbers or statistics to say he done good in those matches but we know had a big contribution.

All I'm saying is, yes he's been underperforming, yes he should have been on the bench, but he's far from sh!t, very far.

Esse85

He needs a rest, Heskey should be dropped, Carew should start, play 5 in midfield, Play players in their natural position, use the subs oh and one more thing if your listening Martin, so being so bloody pig headed.

Helix

JPA wrote: »

All I'm saying is, yes he's been underperforming, yes he should have been on the bench, but he's far from sh!t, very far.

watch him next time you get the chance, for the full 90 minutes

bar the occasional game hes absolutely useless. if hes not running into the opposition hes standing around with his hands on his hips when he should be shaking his marker

hes just simply not good enough

if he didnt have pace hed have nothing at all

Neil3030

JPA wrote: »

Obviously players score more against the lesser teams.
But he can't be singled out like that. Players do less against better teams and better players. That's the most obvious thing in the world. IF we had better players supplying the ball for him he'd probably have more goals

If we were leading the league and Gabby was underperforming against all the better teams there would be a more convincing case against him.
But what about that period of 13 unbeaten when he was up front on his own running his arse off against lost causes, keeping the opposition on their toes.

There's no numbers or statistics to say he done good in those matches but we know had a big contribution.

All I'm saying is, yes he's been underperforming, yes he should have been on the bench, but he's far from sh!t, very far.

That's fair enough, though I never said he was sh1t, in fact I specifically said he was a better than average player and even called into question whether the coaching staff may be contributory to his narrow repertoire of skills currently being made obvious for all to see.

I was happy with his performances under the 4-5-1, because I think that system was working as a whole. See, this brings me back to the input of coaches, MON this time. The 4-4-2 requires more than a runner, an errand boy and MON really needs to accommodate or assimilate - change the players or change the formation.

JPA

Helix wrote: »

watch him next time you get the chance, for the full 90 minutes

bar the occasional game hes absolutely useless. if hes not running into the opposition hes standing around with his hands on his hips when he should be shaking his marker

hes just simply not good enough

if he didnt have pace hed have nothing at all

Ya and pace is a bloody big thing to have. He's good in the air and he's a good finisher as well. But he's a brainless eejit no doubt.
He can't make chances for himself, he's a striker not a playmaker.
If we got the creative midfielder you mentioned earlier it might have a positive effect for him as at the moment the only way we have of getting through a defence is by going out wide. A through ball from a midfielder seems an alien concept.

eagle eye

I dunno, I was saying yesterday that Carew/Agbonlahor has worked. It got you where you were before Carew got injured. He is back now, he scores goals everytime he plays by the looks of things so why is he not starting?

Its clear that big John and Gabby work, most of Gabby's goals have come while Carew was playing, I'm not sure how many exactly but I think its 8 of his 10 PL goals.
Now that seems to me like a partnership, I still think Heskey is a fine player but I do think you need somebody clinical and fast to work off him. Gabby is not clinical enough and Big John is not fast enough. Is is possible that its a case of Gabby being slow to gel with new players?

On the Barry thing, he is going nowhere imo and to be even thinking about it at this stage is premature. Sure you have lost fourth place on goal difference but its a long way to the finish line. You have some tough games in the next couple of weeks but remember Arsenal have a tough run in having to face away games with Manchester United and Liverpool, they also have Chelsea at home amongst others,and Wigan away is not easy either.

Jaysus lads don't lose hope at his stage, Villa are a great club and its great to see them back in the thick of the action but if fans lose hope that quickly I would start to wonder if the fans are anything like what they used to be. I was chatting to my bro and he is still full of beans and belief that Villa will make it. He believes that Villa can take a point from Anfield and then the return of Martin Laursen will give the players the lift they need.

tok9

JPA wrote: »

Ya and pace is a bloody big thing to have. He's good in the air and he's a good finisher as well. But he's a brainless eejit no doubt.
He can't make chances for himself, he's a striker not a playmaker.
If we got the creative midfielder you mentioned earlier it might have a positive effect for him as at the moment the only way we have of getting through a defence is by going out wide. A through ball from a midfielder seems an alien concept.

He's diff not a good finisher.... and i don't think he's that good in the air either... that chance against everton in the f.a cup spring immediately to mind!

JPA

tok9 wrote: »

He's diff not a good finisher.... and i don't think he's that good in the air either... that chance against everton in the f.a cup spring immediately to mind!

He is a good finisher, just doesn't take every chance but no player does.
He has missed good chances but he's off form.

Neil3030

He's a bad finisher who has betimes shown some excellent finishes.

wynters

JPA wrote: »

He is a good finisher, just doesn't take every chance but no player does.
He has missed good chances but he's off form.

100%.

To people who slag him off for not moving enough... I don't see Berbatov scampering about the pitch chasing the ball down, yet he's a £30m+ player, who - incidentally, has scored fewer goals in the PL for the Champions...? All this "any other striker would have 20 goals by now" is complete horsesh/t.

And I'm not blindly using his stats to prove a point, I agree that his current form might not warrant a place in the starting eleven, but some people are being WAY over top in their criticism of him. Sell him!!!!???????????? haha. It's becoming a witch-hunt... If you don't like his attitude or his on-field demeanour, the 'hands on hips' thing, that's your problem. But I'd rather have a lazy striker who scores goals than some 'honest pro' tryer who scores fck all. Lets play 11 Marlon Harewoods then! Sure I could run around the pitch all day... does that make me a better player??? Simply having a good attitude does not a good player make. He's probably under instruction to remain in a certain position anyway... Gabby has a languid style, and is way off-form, Simple as.

This Gabby-bashing really is getting ridiculous.

Bounty Hunter

wynters wrote: »

This Gabby-bashing really is getting ridiculous.

The fools that jeered him as he was brought off on Sunday imo only made it more likely that he will start the next game and didnt even further their own point let alone acted in a manner I dont like towards a player who gives his all for the team. Id like him dropped cos of his form and to give Carew a start (maybe in a 4-5-1) but dont want the poor fella cast aside and jeered by the fans of which he himself is one and does his best (even if they dont think its enough) for.

Neil3030

wynters wrote: »

100%.

To people who slag him off for not moving enough... I don't see Berbatov scampering about the pitch chasing the ball down, yet he's a £30m+ player, who - incidentally, has scored fewer goals in the PL for the Champions...? All this "any other striker would have 20 goals by now" is complete horsesh/t.

Nobody said anything about him tackling back or chasing the ball all over the pitch, the criticisms were all in the realm of Gabby's lack of movement to get into position for a wide player to cross or pass to when Villa are on the attack (usually out wide, given our lack of tools through the middle).

And I'm not blindly using his stats to prove a point, I agree that his current form might not warrant a place in the starting eleven, but some people are being WAY over top in their criticism of him. Sell him!!!!???????????? haha. It's becoming a witch-hunt... If you don't like his attitude or his on-field demeanour, the 'hands on hips' thing, that's your problem. But I'd rather have a lazy striker who scores goals than some 'honest pro' tryer who scores fck all. Lets play 11 Marlon Harewoods then! Sure I could run around the pitch all day... does that make me a better player??? Simply having a good attitude does not a good player make. He's probably under instruction to remain in a certain position anyway... Gabby has a languid style, and is way off-form, Simple as.

This Gabby-bashing really is getting ridiculous.

It's no more or less on display than it has been for the majority of the last year or so as far as I'm concerned, I don't know where you're getting the notion that this is some over-reactive witch-hunt. Agbonlahor is an above average, lightning-quick player, but he simply does not perform consistently enough as a striker to be put in the first 11 of a team with aspirations of qualifying for the Champion's League. People were saying this over the summer, they were saying it when we were on our unbeaten streak, they're saying it now.

If anything I would argue the goals he has scored have done more to disguise his inadequacies as a player than anything else. These inadequacies have been put forward several times now on this thread and they will no doubt be on display against Liverpool. Watch the game and as Helix said earlier, count, for example, how many times Gabby:

• Runs into an opposition player and loses the ball
• Fails to make any attempt to shake his marker, or move into open space when the ball is out wide
• Loses control of the ball with his first touch
• Ignores a wide open player in space, when the pass is the obvious option
• Misses a clear goalscoring opportunity

Admittedly, as a Villa fan, I genuinely hope the answer to that last bullet point is 0!

eagle eye

Is nobody willing to address the fact that he has played very well in all the games with Carew?

Bounty Hunter

eagle eye wrote: »

Is nobody willing to address the fact that he has played very well in all the games with Carew?

well everyone wants Carew and nobody expects too many changes to the line-up so tbh id say if carew was swapped in for Heskey atm wed be happy, although Im not sure if weve won since we stopped playing 451 and if i had to just pick 1 villa striker atm it would be Carew and not Gabby