Aston Villa Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

shoutman

FFS, everyone knows we are on a horrible run. The fact that we are going to be in europe to years in a row is special. We have not done that for years. To say that brian little, john gregory and david o'leary all did the same as MON is complete and utter rubbish. They all had one season where it went well for them. Villa did well last season, and despite this terrible run have done well this season. To compare MON to those other three is just the stuff of loons!
The pair of you are either 1)smoking something strong or 2) taking the piss out of me.

Mark my words Villa will be competing for europe again next season. If this is not the case I will gladly eat my hat.

shoutman

Helix wrote: »

apparently the least we've ever won at home in a season before now is 6 so unless we win the next 2, thats going to be a horifically embarrassing stat to live with

I really do not give a toss about stats, I would have taken fifth before the season, obviously I'm not delighted with it but if we get europe next season it means that we are still one of the top clubs in europe, the fact that we will be there two seasons in a row will show players that Villa weren't just one season wonders and if they want to play european football year in year out then Villa are as good a team to play for as any other outside of the top four.

Helix

if youre happy enough to have one of our worst home records ever, play players out of position constantly, have no plan b, sign duds, and play in the uefa cup thats fine

id prefer if we sorted out those issues first, and then took a look at where we can go

but most importantly of all, id like to see us play decent (non route one) football again

invincibleirish

shoutman wrote: »

FFS, everyone knows we are on a horrible run. The fact that we are going to be in europe to years in a row is special. We have not done that for years. To say that brian little, john gregory and david o'leary all did the same as MON is complete and utter rubbish. They all had one season where it went well for them. Villa did well last season, and despite this terrible run have done well this season. To compare MON to those other three is just the stuff of loons!
The pair of you are either 1)smoking something strong or 2) taking the piss out of me.

Mark my words Villa will be competing for europe again next season. If this is not the case I will gladly eat my hat.

You want to relax with the drug taking allegations there Shoutman, if you can't see the parallels between MON & Gregorys seasons of big spending, promising results but then a severe loss of form i suggest you look harder.

I like MON, great character, Villa have played some fantastic football this year, the best in years, but Laursen aside a lot of our troubles have been self inflicted imo.

shoutman

Gregory sides did not show the promise of the current side, We haven't played as good football as we have this season since the days of big Ron. And I barely even remember those days.
Helix have you watched the recent games we were playing some very good football. Yes MON could of done things differently and maybe things would be different and we'd be still looking at fourth spot. Equally if Stoke hadn't got two goals from no where at the end of that game we could of gone from strength to strength and be playing for third spot. It's all hypothetical.

I just think that this disastrous run is not down solely to the manager. And a lot of things have gone against us. I still think he is the best manager we could hope for and I hope, as I know you guys do, that next season he can prove you wrong and we'll be once again playing for fourth spot.

Bounty Hunter

i think the easiest thing here is just to disagree with them as i think the only way they will be convinced is on the pitch. We were ahead of schedule this year and it caught up with us but so far this season as a whole has again been another improvement and i hope that trend and the man who has overseen it continues in place

Helix

shoutman wrote: »

Gregory sides did not show the promise of the current side

john gregory was one signing away from challenging for the title

shoutman wrote: »

We haven't played as good football as we have this season since the days of big Ron. And I barely even remember those days.

we played better football last season than this season, and we have played nicer stuff under both little and gregory

shoutman wrote: »

Helix have you watched the recent games we were playing some very good football.

yeah we've played some decent stuff the last few games, but in the bigger picture of the whole season we've been a long ball kick and rush team

shoutman wrote: »

I just think that this disastrous run is not down solely to the manager. And a lot of things have gone against us. I still think he is the best manager we could hope for and I hope, as I know you guys do, that next season he can prove you wrong and we'll be once again playing for fourth spot.

i hope im wrong as well, but i dont think i am. mon still has the same issues with his management as he had at celtic. he needs to start thinking outside the box, but i think it might be a bit beyond him

shoutman

Helix wrote: »

john gregory was one signing away from challenging for the title

IMO this is an absolutely ridiculous statement. What signing would of had us in the title race come the end of the season? If Gregory was such a good manager why has he faded into relative obscurity?

invincibleirish

shoutman wrote: »

IMO this is an absolutely ridiculous statement. What signing would of had us in the title race come the end of the season?

Juninho and/or Robbie Keane

Helix

shoutman wrote: »

IMO this is an absolutely ridiculous statement. What signing would of had us in the title race come the end of the season? If Gregory was such a good manager why has he faded into relative obscurity?

juninho

can you not remember that season or something?

its been one that has repeated and repeated and repeated over and over again since

villa look strong, villa in the mix up, villa fail to buy the correct/any player, villa fade away

gregory never did much after villa coz he was crooked as a £6 note more so than anything to do with his managerial skills.

i get the feeling you cant remember too much of gregorys reign or something...

shoutman

Yes I remember it. Who forgets a cup final?
But I honestly don't think Juninho, despite his wonderment, would of had us winning titles.
At the time, when Gregory left, I wanted nothing more then to pelt eggs at Ellis, but all that said Gregory was a flash in the pan, his time up to present has shown that.

Just give MON time and hopefully he will prove you wrong.

invincibleirish

shoutman wrote: »

Yes I remember it. Who forgets a cup final?
.

Wrong season:P suddenly i'm beginning to feel kind of old.......

But seriously i'll guess we'll see in the summer what MON is thinking.

Helix

verton 0-0 Aston Villa 15-08-1998
Aston Villa 3-1 Middlesbro 23-08-1998
Sheff Wed 0-1 Aston Villa 29-08-1998
Aston Villa 1-0 Newcastle 09-09-1998
Aston Villa 2-0 MK Dons 12-09-1998
UEFA Cup Aston Villa 3-2 Stromsgodset 15-09-1998
Leeds 0-0 Aston Villa 19-09-1998
Aston Villa 1-0 Derby 26-09-1998
UEFA Cup Stromsgodset 0-3 Aston Villa 29-09-1998
Coventry 1-2 Aston Villa 03-10-1998
West Ham 0-0 Aston Villa 17-10-1998
UEFA Cup Celta Vigo 0-1 Aston Villa 20-10-1998
Aston Villa 1-1 Leicester 24-10-1998
English League Cup Chelsea 4-1 Aston Villa 28-10-1998
UEFA Cup Aston Villa 1-3 Celta Vigo 03-11-1998
Aston Villa 3-2 Tottenham 07-11-1998
Southampton 1-4 Aston Villa 14-11-1998
Aston Villa 2-4 Liverpool 21-11-1998
Nottm Forest 2-2 Aston Villa 28-11-1998
Aston Villa 1-1 Man Utd 05-12-1998
Chelsea 2-1 Aston Villa 09-12-1998
Aston Villa 3-2 Arsenal 13-12-1998
Charlton 0-1 Aston Villa 21-12-1998
Blackburn 2-1 Aston Villa 26-12-1998
Aston Villa 2-1 Sheff Wed 28-12-1998
English FA Cup Aston Villa 3-0 Hull 02-01-1999
Middlesbro 0-0 Aston Villa 09-01-1999
Aston Villa 3-0 Everton 18-01-1999
English FA Cup Aston Villa 0-2 Fulham 23-01-1999
Newcastle 2-1 Aston Villa 30-01-1999
Aston Villa 1-3 Blackburn 06-02-1999
Aston Villa 1-2 Leeds 17-02-1999
MK Dons 0-0 Aston Villa 21-02-1999
Aston Villa 1-4 Coventry 27-02-1999
Derby 2-1 Aston Villa 10-03-1999
Tottenham 1-0 Aston Villa 13-03-1999
Aston Villa 0-3 Chelsea 21-03-1999
Aston Villa 0-0 West Ham 02-04-1999
Leicester 2-2 Aston Villa 06-04-1999
Aston Villa 3-0 Southampton 10-04-1999
Liverpool 0-1 Aston Villa 17-04-1999
Aston Villa 2-0 Nottm Forest 24-04-1999
Man Utd 2-1 Aston Villa 01-05-1999
Aston Villa 3-4 Charlton 08-05-1999
Arsenal 1-0 Aston Villa 16-05-1999

it all went tits up just before chrimbo when ellis wouldnt pay the extra £500k to bring juninho to the club. we had signed merson and dublin earlier that season and we has just run a little bit stale. same as now, teams knew how to play against us and we didnt have a plan be. gregory decided that juninho would solve the problem but ellis wouldnt pay the extra

its reasons like that which make villa fans somewhat cynical. we've seen it all before, all the promise, all the "on the up" talk and then we NEVER invest properly on the playing side and it always ballses us up

invincibleirish

Helix wrote: »

Aston Villa 3-2 Arsenal 13-12-1998

What a game, again a spooky relevance to this season. Although 98/99 WHU pipped Villa to 5th on the last day of the season, Everton might get there before then!

Helix

invincibleirish wrote: »

What a game

bloody hell yes. i got great mileage out of that one with my arsenal supporting father

invincibleirish

Jeez has it really been 10 years since all that?, being spanked by Keegans Fulham in the cup, Stan going loco, big Dion arriving, losing to Charlton in the last minute after almost relegating them, that Arsenal game, and of course being top at Xmas. Where does the time go.

Helix

only feels like 4 or 5 years ago

its mad

x in the city

shoutman wrote: »

IMO this is an absolutely ridiculous statement. What signing would of had us in the title race come the end of the season? If Gregory was such a good manager why has he faded into relative obscurity?

one signing from the title..

am I missing something!

Helix

x in the city wrote: »

one signing from the title..

am I missing something!

yes, perhaps you shouldve read the discussion

Savman

I stopped paying attention as soon as Sven Bung Eriksson and Avram 'Penfold' Grant got mentioned without any lolcats for Messr Helix :eek:

JPA

Helix, maybe years as a Villa fan as made you ultra sceptical but I think we all know things are different now. No?

Helix

Savman wrote: »

I stopped paying attention as soon as Sven Bung Eriksson and Avram 'Penfold' Grant got mentioned without any lolcats for Messr Helix :eek:

grant was a slip away from winning a european cup, and did a pretty bloody impressive job at chelsea managing a bunch of superstars who likely had no respect in the slightest for him at the start

JPA wrote: »

Helix, maybe years as a Villa fan as made you ultra sceptical but I think we all know things are different now. No?

remains to be seen. itll all count for the same if the manager keeps buying what would appear to be the wrong players, and playing people in the wrong positions

Neil3030

I've faith in MON so I'm not getting dragged into an argument between two sides whose opinions are probably not going to change any time soon.

I just hope Fergie is getting a comparable slating form certain people on this board who had a go at MON for "devaluing and insulting the tradition of UEFA cup" etc, for virtually fielding his under 12s today in an FA cup semi final in lieu of a game against Portsmouth next week in the league.

wynters

Helix wrote: »

grant was a slip away from winning a european cup, and did a pretty bloody impressive job at chelsea managing a bunch of superstars who likely had no respect in the slightest for him at the start

Fair enough... But it's not difficult to get results with a squad that good. You're saying Grant is better than O'Neill... and that sir, is madness!

... I find these negative opinions on O'Neill a little worrying. What if they snowball and O'Neill goes the same way as O'Leary??? (in terms of his relationship with the fans and how that all ended), that'd be two managers in a row that the fans will have ran out of the club. Which decent manager in his right mind would then come to work for Villa with fans like that? Alarmist negativity is not the answer.

I had a conversation with someone recently about how a slice of relegation might do Geordie fans some good. That 'going down' might provide a sobering reality check for their delusions of grandeur. But by the same rationale, some Villa fans need to wake up aswell. We're not a top 4 club just yet so maybe we should stop using those standards as a stick to beat O'Neill with.

We're only 3 years into the famous '5 year plan' remember, and we've already come very close to breaking into the top 4. The very fact that we're all as disappointed to not get a CL place shows the progress we've made under O'Neill!

Sure, we could do a Chelsea or a Man City on it and just fck money at it, but there's something a bit plasticy about that approach. That kind of 'boil in the bag' success degrades a club to the neutral fan. We've progressed steadily and I think there's credibility in doing it like that... we're now in a position to warrant being ambitious in the transfer market. We've earned it.

Helix

wynters wrote: »

Fair enough... But it's not difficult to get results with a squad that good.

scolari didnt manage it, and grants accomplishments in terms of results were on a par with mourinhos.

wynters wrote: »

You're saying Grant is better than O'Neill... and that sir, is madness!

im saying that to make the next step i think we need something different to o'neill. better isnt necessarily the correct word. what we have is a solid base to build on, mon might surprise us and play a blinder in the summer, bringing in what we're crying out for. if he doesnt then i suspect next season might well be his last because youd have to expect city and spurs to be in the mix next time round

wynters wrote: »

I find these negative opinions on O'Neill a little worrying. What if they snowball and O'Neill goes the same way as O'Leary??? (in terms of his relationship with the fans and how that all ended), that'd be two managers in a row that the fans will have ran out of the club. Which decent manager in his right mind would then come to work for Villa with fans like that? Alarmist negativity is not the answer.

to be fair ive had much the same opinion of the bloke since day 1, i thought hed done it in the summer, but it didnt work out as well as it appeared it might

wynters wrote: »

We're not a top 4 club just yet so maybe we should stop using those standards as a stick to beat O'Neill with.

we would be, comfortably, if we'd brought in some defensive back up in january and the manager hadnt decided to completely change a winning (if unattractive) formula to accommodate heskey

wynters wrote: »

We're only 3 years into the famous '5 year plan' remember, and we've already come very close to breaking into the top 4. The very fact that we're all as disappointed to not get a CL place shows the progress we've made under O'Neill!

again, the fact that we've completely pissed away relative comfort in 4th spot shows that something isnt right

wynters wrote: »

we're now in a position to warrant being ambitious in the transfer market. We've earned it.

of course, but my constant criticism of the man is that i dont think hes capable of being ambitious in the transfer market. hopefully im wrong, but i wouldnt bet against another summer of english players none of the top four would be bothered with

Savman

wynters wrote: »

But by the same rationale, some Villa fans need to wake up aswell. We're not a top 4 club just yet so maybe we should stop using those standards as a stick to beat O'Neill with.
.

The man speaketh some sense. The most agonising part of our downfall is the realisation that even if we did carry the run forward and somehow qualify for the Champions League, the cold hard truth is that we would not last very long in it.

invincibleirish

Savman wrote: »

The man speaketh some sense. The most agonising part of our downfall is the realisation that even if we did carry the run forward and somehow qualify for the Champions League, the cold hard truth is that we would not last very long in it.

Is it though? even if Villa did make the CL in August and lost, by that point we would have had a summer of high expectation and hope and built off the back of that, not least the possibility of our stand in captain signing a new contract. Now we face into the summer with very little changed from last.

Anyway no point dealing in what ifs and could have beens, perhaps GB leaving this summer will act as a catalyst for MON to to re-organise and re-shape the team.

x in the city

Neil3030 wrote: »

I've faith in MON so I'm not getting dragged into an argument between two sides whose opinions are probably not going to change any time soon.

I just hope Fergie is getting a comparable slating form certain people on this board who had a go at MON for "devaluing and insulting the tradition of UEFA cup" etc, for virtually fielding his under 12s today in an FA cup semi final in lieu of a game against Portsmouth next week in the league.

I think thats a bit harsh, the team that finished had scholes,anderson, tevez,park, rio, macheda [remember him?], berbatov, evra, vidic.

to say he fielded an u12 side is a bit childish by all accounts.

The same 'u12' side beat spurs in the carling cup final apparently?

Judging from his side line antics I don't think he wanted to go out of the competition

Frisbee

x in the city wrote: »

I think thats a bit harsh, the team that finished had scholes,anderson, tevez,park, rio, macheda [remember him?], berbatov, evra, vidic.

to say he fielded an u12 side is a bit childish by all accounts.

The same 'u12' side beat spurs in the carling cup final apparently?

Judging from his side line antics I don't think he wanted to go out of the competition

If he wanted to win he had stronger players than Gibson, Welbeck, Macheda, Fabio and Foster available to him.

Savman

invincibleirish wrote: »

Is it though? even if Villa did make the CL in August and lost, by that point we would have had a summer of high expectation and hope and built off the back of that, not least the possibility of our stand in captain signing a new contract. Now we face into the summer with very little changed from last.

Anyway no point dealing in what ifs and could have beens, perhaps GB leaving this summer will act as a catalyst for MON to to re-organise and re-shape the team.

Let's pretend Villa sealed CL qualification. And draw one of Europe's big dogs at the first hurdle. How many of the current squad do you think are even close to that level? I could count on one hand the amount of really class players at Villa Park, the rest would be lambs to the slaughter.

mirwillbeback

Savman wrote: »

Let's pretend Villa sealed CL qualification. And draw one of Europe's big dogs at the first hurdle. How many of the current squad do you think are even close to that level? I could count on one hand the amount of really class players at Villa Park, the rest would be lambs to the slaughter.

So in 3 seasons MON has gathered five or less class players with a chairman who we are told will back him to the hilt. And you attack me for saying it might be time for him to go

invincibleirish

Savman wrote: »

Let's pretend Villa sealed CL qualification. And draw one of Europe's big dogs at the first hurdle. How many of the current squad do you think are even close to that level? I could count on one hand the amount of really class players at Villa Park, the rest would be lambs to the slaughter.

Well the point i was trying to make was would it be the end of the world if we didn't make it past the qualifiers? the boost alone from taking 4th(and depriving rivals of the chance of CL qualification) would be reason enough to be joyful.

But if we're analysing the Villa squad and looking for a 1982 repeat then here we go:

CL quality players:
Laursen
Young
Barry
Carew

Maybes:
Petrov
Milner
CC
Gabby
Bouma

Doesn't inspire confidence, but remember we have MONs tactical nous to fall back on:p.

wynters

With the probable loss of Barry to a club playing CL football, and Laursen through retirement, it's very likely that we'll be losing two of our best players this summer. Our captain and vice-captain...

Who would your choices be for direct replacements for those two???

invincibleirish

wynters wrote: »

With the probable loss of Barry to a club playing CL football, and Laursen through retirement, it's very likely that we'll be losing two of our best players this summer. Our captain and vice-captain...

Who would your choices be for direct replacements for those two???

Will if this were Champ Manager i'd take Moutinho & Hangeland, but with MON i'd expect signings like Huddlestone & Bramble!

shoutman

Martin O'Neill has admitted Aston Villa "won't be able to compete financially" with the big four clubs in the Premier League.But the Villa manager insists he is still driven on to succeed and to overcome that disadvantage.
Villa have been in the top six virtually all season and were in strong contention for a Champions League spot until a recent poor run of results left them trailing Arsenal by seven points.
O'Neill said: "We have been up there all season, never out of the top six.
"But we are in the same league as Manchester United, who have gates of 75,000 and are a different entity. We are in there against Arsenal, who house 60,000 fans every home game.
"Then we are against the other two (Liverpool and Chelsea), who have our sort of gates but not only have the experience behind them but a lot of money to go at it as well."
O'Neill is full of praise for the backing he has received from club owner and chairman Randy Lerner during the past two and a half years and last summer he splashed out £50million on new signings.
But the former Celtic boss admitted: "We won't be able to compete financially. We are trying to run this as a business at this minute. That is difficult, especially in this day and age.
"It is a tough old business. Financially it is tough out there - and we are not going to be running this club in the manner of some other clubs.
"But I think that is part of the excitement of it all. You have to try and find other ways to compete. I don't think we'll ever be up there in finance terms but it doesn't mean you cannot compete in other ways."
O'Neill is also adamant he would not pay grossly-inflated transfer fees to bring players to Villa Park.
He said: "I don't mind paying over the odds for some player but, if some player was worth £7million and I was told you'd have to pay £15million, I couldn't do so.
"However, if I thought someone was worth it in the long term, like an Ashley Young, then I'd pay a bit over the top."
Meanwhile, O'Neill is set to hold talks with skipper and central defender Martin Laursen, who has been ruled out for the remainder of the season with his latest knee injury setback.
O'Neill is keen to gauge the state of mind of Laursen and find out if he has the desire and hunger to go through another period of rehabilitation after so many knockbacks in his career.
Laursen has not played since early January and his absence has coincided with Villa conceding 25 goals in the last 11 games.

Well there ya go, Lerner obviously isn't willing to empty his pockets like Hicks and Gillette are....

Helix

shoutman wrote: »

Well there ya go, Lerner obviously isn't willing to empty his pockets like Hicks and Gillette are....

i suspect the chairman is a little wary of pumping another shed load of money in this summer after seeing little return for his investments last year tbh

Mr Alan

Like Hicks & Gillette are?

i presume that was a joke?

invincibleirish

Knight, NRC, Sidwell, Davies, CC, Heskey & Shorey are the question mark big money signings

The Youngs, Carew, Milner & Petrov are the signings that have been good

50/50 on Friedel, and have discounted minor signings like Salifou & Routledge.

So i'm not sure what Lerner is making of it all, of course i doubt Lerner is actually dipping into his own pocket for investments, rather he's letting MON spend the TV money earned.

Neil3030

x in the city wrote: »

I think thats a bit harsh, the team that finished had scholes,anderson, tevez,park, rio, macheda [remember him?], berbatov, evra, vidic.

to say he fielded an u12 side is a bit childish by all accounts.

The same 'u12' side beat spurs in the carling cup final apparently?

Judging from his side line antics I don't think he wanted to go out of the competition

So what, MON just put his feet up in Moscow and had a few cans? Fergie's priorities were glaringly manifest in the team he started, regardless of how he let instincts take over once the game began. And if you want to equate the FA Cup to Carling Cup in terms of prestige you're clutching at some pretty desperate straws mate...

Neil3030

If we've to replace Barry and Laursen with what is now emerging to be a tight enough transfer kitty I think we'll struggle to hang onto 5th/6th place. Though if we get, say, 5-8m for Barry, maybe a few quid for Harewood and Lerner doles out 5-10m of his own we might get moderate enough replacements but I wouldn't hold my breath...

invincibleirish

I don't think the transfer kitty will be that tight, it'll probably be similiar to last season. 30-40m is the magic figure from the TV deals, but i think the reason we spent little money in January is MON spent his budget for the year last summer.

The difference Lerner could make is easy but expensive, when MON spends the allocated money but Lerner ponies up the 15-20m for that one extra signing. I think thats what General Krulak was getting at when he came out with a while back that Lerner would spend £30m on a player if he thought it was the right one. What impact the global financial crises has had on Lerners thinking since i don't know.

shoutman

We will get at least 12mil for Barry. He's not out of contract so things wont change that much. Barry is easily worth 12million, if not a lot more, to any club in england.

Neil3030

Personally I don't see us getting that much for Gaz but it would be pretty sweet if we did. If were then to get in Defour/Moutinho as a direct swap and then pony up some Lerner dosh on a top Centre-Half I'd be happy. Anything on top of that we'd have to see as a bonus.

JPA

invincibleirish wrote: »

Knight, NRC, Sidwell, Davies, CC, Heskey & Shorey are the question mark big money signings

The Youngs, Carew, Milner & Petrov are the signings that have been good

50/50 on Friedel, and have discounted minor signings like Salifou & Routledge.

So i'm not sure what Lerner is making of it all, of course i doubt Lerner is actually dipping into his own pocket for investments, rather he's letting MON spend the TV money earned.

What? Villa have been completely outspending their income. Where do you think the money has been coming from? You are ignoring wages and other costs.

Helix

invincibleirish wrote: »

What impact the global financial crises has had on Lerners thinking since i don't know.

he's made money out of it

the sterling collapse magically made randys $$s worth far more ££s

Helix

shoutman wrote: »

We will get at least 12mil for Barry. He's not out of contract so things wont change that much. Barry is easily worth 12million, if not a lot more, to any club in england.

no we wont, we'll get £8m and i wouldnt imagine too much more

he hasnt been a patch on his form last season either, despite winning man of the match for simply being on the pitch at villa park it seems

Helix

invincibleirish wrote: »

Lerner would spend £30m on a player if he thought it was the right one

his confidence in the manager getting that right must surely be lower than it was this time last year, thats why i dont think we'll see it. maybe one £10m-£15m player, but the rest (2-3) ~£5m

JPA

Do Liverpool still want Barry? They're the only team he could join I would think.

Helix

JPA wrote: »

Do Liverpool still want Barry? They're the only team he could join I would think.

id be kinda surprised if they did tbh, but you never know

JPA

Helix wrote: »

his confidence in the manager getting that right must surely be lower than it was this time last year, thats why i dont think we'll see it. maybe one £10m-£15m player, but the rest (2-3) ~£5m

Why would it be lower?