Gun safe 2 guns, gun safe room 3 guns ????

riflehunter77

Lads has any one heard anything like this, heard this over the weekend. One of the lads that goes deer stalking allegedly got a letter the other day stating that a new law was coming in and that his gun safe would no longer be enough because he had 3 firearms and that he would have to build a safe room to hold his firearms. Has any one else hard anything along these lines or is it just bull.. It sounds a bit far fetched to me

Mellor

Is a safe not just a small room?

Sparks

Part bull, part not. There are Guidelines from the National Crime Prevention Unit on secure storage which the Super can choose to enforce. There is no law however. And the NCPU guidelines don't match the description too well:

The firearm has to be stored in a structurally sound building.
Gun cabinets must be used.
Firearms should never be left unattended.
Three categories for secure storage:
Category A (rifles to .22, shotguns)
- Gun Cabinet (not insisting on BS standard, just that it be fit for purpose), secured to a solid wall or floor and concealed if possible.
- The dwelling should be reasonably secure (good doors and windows).
Category B (fullbore rifles)
- Gun Cabinet as in category A
- Seperate storage area in the cabinet for ammunition
- Audible (not necessarily monitored) alarm on the dwelling
Category C (pistols and revolvers)
- Gun Cabinet as in category B
- External doors must be in good condition with 5 lever mortice locks or for patio doors, anti-lift devices.
- Alarm to EM5031 standard, monitored by a recognised monitoring centre
Also, if you have four or more firearms in a category, you must meet the standards of the next higher category (so 4 cat A firearms = you must meet the cat B conditions).

It wasn't me!

Safe room? What exactly are they looking for? Cupboard? Box room? Armoured kitchen? That sounds rather insane.

CJhaughey

I have seen this in other countries, I think the spec was 1/2 ply lining room, if windows were fitted they had to have steel frame bolted to window surround and bars 20mm thick and x distance apart, door and frame had to be re-inforced with steel and multiple locks, alarms on door/window and IR inside
Basically it might not stop a determined thief/thieves but it would take an awful long time and a lot of noise to break in and by the time you got in the local armed police would have arrived.
Easily Do-able if you have a small room with no windows

Sparks

But it's not in the NCPU guidelines and it's definitely not in any law out there. Maybe there's confusion over the requirements for firearms dealers and those for ordinary shooters?

G17

riflehunter77 wrote: »

It sounds a bit far fetched to me

I would not be at all surprised if this story is indeed true. I've seen crime prevention officers poo poo the most stringent security arrangements. No harm either, I don't mind lining my house with steel (it'll kill me wi-fi signal though!), just so long as we know what the current whim, I mean well researched and totally logical guideline, is.

Shooter "here's my steel lined house officer, will you have a cup of tea?"

CPO "I'm afraid we require titanium sir"

Shooter "ah no, I was only messin', it is titanium"

CPO "em, I meant (looks in book) hafnium carbide"

Shooter "oh, do they have that in Woodie's?"

CPO "em, can I have that tea now?"




If you want to have a Co2 .177 air pistol, it's only right that you lay mines around your home - now that's sarcasm.


AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D:D:D

Sparks

I've seen crime prevention officers poo poo the most stringent security arrangements.

After the NCPU guidelines were drawn up and announced or before then?

G17

Sparks wrote: »

After the NCPU guidelines were drawn up and announced or before then?

4 weeks ago to the day almost. The recommendations (in relation the FCP) were mentioned but I believe he said "who knows what's going to happen", that was interpreted as "what recommendations, are those my feet?".

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

Part bull, part not. There are Guidelines from the National Crime Prevention Unit on secure storage which the Super can choose to enforce. There is no law however. And the NCPU guidelines don't match the description too well:

Thought the FCP had an agreement regading this and that alarms didn't have to be monitored ?

At local gun club AGM last nite a member advised us that he was contacted by local FO and advised he needs a gun safe, monitored alarm and CCTV installed as new legislation due. He has 4 firearms. No pistols or fullbore rifles heard a few other lads had same type of conversation with FO

cavan shooter

See below excerpt from the recent brief sent out by the FCP, this was also published in ISD

MINIMUM STANDARDS OF HOME SECURITY:
The minimum standards of home security have been agreed:

LEVEL 1: It shall be sufficient where the license holder has only a single shotgun that it be broken down into it’s component parts and each part hidden separately. A gun cabinet is not required.

LEVEL 2: In the case of up to and including four non-restricted firearms, the minimum requirement should be a gun safe which meets an agreed specification and it should be bolted to a solid block or concrete wall where possible. Ammunition and component parts such as rifle bolts, pistol slide bars or shotgun fore ends should be stored separately in a secure and safe place.



LEVEL 3: Where five non-restricted firearms or more or even one restricted firearm is kept, the minimum requirement should be the same as for level 2 but in addition, the premises should have an alarm fitted (non monitored) and the external house door should be fitted with locks to BS3621 standard.

N.B. In all levels, the Superintendent for the area concerned will still have authority to require a higher level of security in circumstances where a demonstrable security concern arises. However, should it prove to be the case that Superintendents, or their Crime Prevention Officers, are insisting on higher security levels in all or a significantly high number of cases, it has been agreed that the matter will be referable back to the Firearms Consultative Panel to be dealt with.

Hope this is of use.

bunny shooter

I know that, point I was trying to make is that a certain Super is once again making the rules up as he goes along

chem

bunny shooter wrote: »

I know that, point I was trying to make is that a certain Super is once again making the rules up as he goes along

Sometimes I think the gardai can interpret the firearms laws in the same way fundementelists interpret there religious books:D:D:D

Jonty

G17 wrote: »

I


If you want to have a Co2 .177 air pistol, it's only right that you lay mines around your home - now that's sarcasm.


AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D:D:D

Don't forget to have your HazMat permit for compressed air ready for inspection also!!

G17

Jonty wrote: »

Don't forget to have your HazMat permit for compressed air ready for inspection also!!

Thanks, I forgot that!

Lidl have biohazard suits on Thursday next, also jars of Sauerkraut, 3 for the price of two, oh and table top patio heaters, I'm rambling now. .

Sparks

Jonty wrote: »

Don't forget to have your HazMat permit for compressed air ready for inspection also!!

Humour aside, the compressed air tanks we'd have for air rifles (especially the scuba tanks we refill from) actually are quite dangerous if they let go. Someone worked it out - your typical scuba tank, if it fails while full, would have the same explosive damage as a pair of hand grenades...

Rovi

Sparks wrote: »

Humour aside, the compressed air tanks we'd have for air rifles (especially the scuba tanks we refill from) actually are quite dangerous if they let go. Someone worked it out - your typical scuba tank, if it fails while full, would have the same explosive damage as a pair of hand grenades...

And don't go shooting them with an M1 Garand (in .30-06, naturally), or this will happen-

Sparks

Actually, they tried that on mythbusters - it's a bad idea but more because the tank will act like a balloon that you let go of before tying the neck. It flew all over the place inside the 40-foot container they were doing this in, and it'd ruin your whole day if it actually walloped you, but it didn't explode...

Grizzly 45

Moral;Dont buy alminium scuba tanks in the first place.
Just on a point on this,as a scuba diver,I have to get mine visually inspected every year ,and hydrostatically tested every 3 years.
It is usually cheaper just to buy new tank.
Do the air cylinders folks use to charge up their air rifles,require the same inspections and require them to be marked to eU std.OF the upper quater being painted black/white alternating bands from the neck down?Cos I would hate to think somone unscrouplous out there,is flogging used failed tanks to the unknowing.:eek:

IRLConor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Moral;Dont buy alminium scuba tanks in the first place.
Just on a point on this,as a scuba diver,I have to get mine visually inspected every year ,and hydrostatically tested every 3 years.
It is usually cheaper just to buy new tank.
Do the air cylinders folks use to charge up their air rifles,require the same inspections and require them to be marked to eU std.OF the upper quater being painted black/white alternating bands from the neck down?Cos I would hate to think somone unscrouplous out there,is flogging used failed tanks to the unknowing.:eek:

I'm pretty sure DURC's tank is properly inspected like that. It definitely has the painted marks.

The DU Sub-Aqua Club help out quite a bit when it comes to filling it too. Handy having a "dive shop" less than 50m from the range.

Sparks

Yup, it's a straight scuba tank. Has to be visually inspected every two years and hydrostaticly inspected every five, but because we use them so infrequently by comparison to what they were meant to be used for (several full charge/discharge cycles per day), it's no bother to pass.

IRLConor

Sparks wrote: »

Yup, it's a straight scuba tank. Has to be visually inspected every two years and hydrostaticly inspected every five, but because we use them so infrequently by comparison to what they were meant to be used for (several full charge/discharge cycles per day), it's no bother to pass.

It also doesn't get banged around much. Apart from its trips up the lane to get refilled it rarely moves more than 2 feet from its normal resting place.