Foxes in garden - advice for dog owner

Girl123

I'm looking for some advice on a situation - there have long been foxes in my local area due to waste ground etc. The house next door has been vacant for several years and we think that there is a fox den at the back of the garden.

In the last couple of weeks there have been many sightings of foxes - particularly what look like cubs (that would fit in with the mating season and them coming to ground in summer).

Basically, I don't have a problem with foxes and happy to let them be. Unfortunately, they are coming into the back garden quite a lot during the night - my dog is constantly agitating to be outside when they are around, particularly around 3 or 4 in the morning!

Last week the dog chased a fox around the garden - luckily the fox made its escape (we think they are getting into the garden via a hole under the shed).

We're concerned on 3 fronts -

1) Dog getting into a physical fight with fox and getting bitten or injured
2) Dog picking up disease from foxes - she actually got mange a few years ago and we worked out that foxes were sleeping in her outside kennel - have door to close kennel now
3) Dog is keeping people awake at night, wanting to get outside.

Anyone have any advice that might help - is there anything that can be done about the fox den next door? Should we just concentrate on trying the limit the foxes into our garden e.g. check out hole under the shed?

Thanks!

LisaO

Defo try & make your garden as inaccessible as possible. Foxes are amazingly agile but like all feral creatures will choose the easiest option. Any idea why they are coming into your garden? Make sure no food or rubbish left out to attract them.

Have heard (now not sure how true this is!) that they are deterred by smell of male human urine. So if you could get a fella to pee all over the fence ...:D

whitser

2 options really. seal up your garden as best as possible, but it'll be hard to keep them out. also the dog will still know they are next door. or get them moved or culled. urban foxes are notoriously mange ridden due to the fact that they live in such close proximity of each other and cos of the stress of urban living and bad diets.
make sure theres no food supply for them and they should stop coming into your garden, fox wont risk an encounter with a dog unless theres some reward.

Girl123

Thanks guys, there's no food source in the garden, we keep the dog's bowl in the house..the only things it could be coming in for are - smell from wheely bin? water pond? smell from empty beer/wine bottles left outside?

Interesting about the pee thing...might mention it to likely candidates!

Getting them moved or culled...I wouldn't want to kill them off necessarily and besides which I've heard that even if foxes are killed, others will take their place so it's a futile exercise.

If we wanted to see about getting them moved, do u know who would do that?

whitser

ispca will help you move them,maybe,i dont know. they'll probably give you a number for someone who can trap them for you. culling them, more will sooner or later move in,maybe, but not this summer. once they are shifted you could make the next door neighbours shed so that they cant or wouldnt like to live under it.
i just hope whoever moves them isnt stupid enough to release mangey urban foxes into the countryside. they wont last too long. and could damage a healthy rural population.
personnaly, as vermin they should be culled, especially mangey urban foxes.

whitser

your best bet is probably a professional pest controller.

Vegeta

LisaO wrote: »

Have heard (now not sure how true this is!) that they are deterred by smell of male human urine. So if you could get a fella to pee all over the fence ...:D

A normal fox in the wild uses its sense of smell a lot and will react well to the man pee. Just do it in a bottle and bring it out side. Her fella whippin it out in the back yard may cause some problems of its own

I don't know how well it will work with urban foxes as they are not as afraid of man as they should be. Worth a try though.

Catch and release wont work as they suffer dreadfully in the wild.

LisaO

Catch & release or culling will only remove foxes that are there but others will soon move in if there is an established local population.
Maybe the garden pond is being used by them as a convenient water source? Perhaps it could be covered by netting or something so that they can't access it.

Back to OPs concerns re: dog. Unlikely to get into a fight with fox, as whitser said:

fox wont risk an encounter with a dog unless theres some reward.

Foxes no. 1 priority is self-preservation - it can't run risk of injury unless absolutely necessary & therefore v. unlikely to attack/engage with dogs/cats.

Can you move dog to an area at front of house at night - away from garden, so she can't see/hear the foxes?

Risk of disease is a tricky one - make sure dog is up-to-date with all vaccs, flea & worm treatments & maybe ask vet if they would recommend any further precautions?

Just a thought - wonder if there are any of those ultra-sonic devices that might work, like the ones you plug in to keep rats & mice away?

Think there are outside ones to keep cats out of your garden - would they work on foxes?

Whispered

Can you please catch a fox cub and give it to me? I want one!

If you can't do that maybe a sensor light would work?

Girl123

Thanks for the tips...will try them out and see if can help.

Helena - sure, can you take them all?!

doctor evil

Don't get the fox relocated as you are just transfering the problem, not solving it.

I'd get it culled and get onto who owns the derelict house, perhaps it can be boarded up properly.

lightening

I see a lot of urban fox's (last one I saw last night) and lately they look very very healthy. Not much mange at all.

And they are pretty brave!!

Our man in Havana

Moved to hunting. Discussion is now more to do with hunting. Feel free to fire it back if nessasary.

It wasn't me!

Hmm, just a respectful suggestion, but given the OP is fairly keen on not killing it, perhaps Nature and Birdwatching would be better? Less likely to degenerate into two sides, pro-killing and anti-killing.

bunny shooter

helena.ryan wrote: »

Can you please catch a fox cub and give it to me? I want one!QUOTE]

That would be cruelty (against the fox) ! Illegal too ?

BlackCat2008

whitser wrote: »

your best bet is probably a professional pest controller.

I don't agree, pest control companies drown, gas and slaughter them any way they feel fit (as long as they don't have to hand over money) any animal cot by them suffers a horrific death. I have a cat they cot, cage and all (and their not getting it back) were they cot a cat considered to be Ferrel, I had her neutered and her ear clipped to say so and turns out she's just very scared and hasn't been handled very much, she doing well now as a foster Mam to a five week old kittie go figure?

Is it not enough we have left them with no were to go only to hunt them down for trying to survive I joined this sight thinking it was for all those who love animals (might have to do some rethinking on this)

Girl23 if you ring the spca they should be able to give you the name of a wild life group that might be able to help in relocating them as well as seeing to there medical needs. These groups will slowly release the foxes in to a rural area after a time to adjust to it, at leased it's worth a few calls to find out.( cheaper than a pest control company will charge)

Culling is not the answer more will find the empty den and take it over. The foxes are very loyal to each other and stick together to survive a mate will know the second another mate is shout and or killed and will call out for weeks until they finishes grieving and yes I have seen and heard this with my own eyes and ears and it was on Ch4 the owner of a house didn't want paw prints on his picnic table anymore (poor baby) so hired someone to kill them he shout the pregnant vixen first with a silents weapon with in a split second of the vixen being shout the male a few doors down started to call out and ran to find her dead and him self shout next if only humans were that careering we'd have a much happier world to live in.

I'll see if I can't find someone to help just don' jump on the band wagon just yet, put up some heavy curtains in the back and try leaving a radio on so your dog can't hear them. Try and cover your pond with metal mash not net as the younger ones will get cot up in them and either drown or choke to death. If you are putting out food try putting garlic and edible worm powder in it to help control past they carry. and they normally run when a spot light comes on.

Fare play to you for trying to sort the situation as nice a way possible. Culling and pest control is just an easy way out. And by the way foxes help control the population of rats and mice.

kerryman12

If It was me I would try to track down the owner of the derilect house. If there are fox's in the back garden then there may be vermin, and not just of the animal kind around. It is their responsibility to look after their patch.

cavan shooter

if you get the Fox moved you will have to try and destroy the den to stop other foxes from using it. Where ever you are living it sounds as if you have a number of foxes and you might not be seeing the same one.

Out of interest is anyone missing cats in your area??

IRLConor

It's a tricky problem you have OP.

If you want it moved, not killed, then you need to answer the question "Where will it be moved to?" before deciding who to get to deal with it and how it will be done.

For the moment at least it might be worth trying to seal off your garden as best you can. If it's hard to get into and has nothing to interest it (i.e. food left out) then it will probably spend less time in your garden. It won't get rid of it altogether but it could be enough to satisfy your needs and wants in relation to the fox.

stevoman

IRLConor wrote: »

It's a tricky problem you have OP.

If you want it moved, not killed, then you need to answer the question "Where will it be moved to?" before deciding who to get to deal with it and how it will be done.

It is indeed a very tricky one. I know this has been suggested already, but i would recomend having them culled and then sealing up the den. Thats all that can be done.

Calling the relative ISPCA's etc. will not do any good. They will indeed just move them out to the countryside and this is worse for them in the long run. I know alot of animal lovers will get peace of mind thinking they will have been moved on to another life, but this is certanly not the case.

I recently read an article about urban foxes that are being caught by relative organistions, and some of these foxes where knocked down by cars and brought to vets to be mended. In the end they were put into the back of a van anf left out in the countryside (14 of them!).

they were found near a sheep farm all standing around hungry and confused as they are not used to hunting in the wild and as there were no bins to raid and were starving. The farmer had no option but to shoot them all and on closer inspection they were indeed found to be city foxes, and some had stitches were they were seen to by vets.

its a tightrope unfortunatly but i would say its best to cull them, its not as if they are the only urban foxes in dublin, the city is actually full of them!

Girl123

Can a mod please move this back to animals and pets - the main reason I posted this was out of concern for my pet dog - I don't think this should have been moved to hunting!!

Vegeta

I will PM the A&PI mod and move if approved.

stevoman

Girl123 wrote: »

Can a mod please move this back to animals and pets - the main reason I posted this was out of concern for my pet dog - I don't think this should have been moved to hunting!!

In fairness though Girl123, what you are gonna get here are the cold hard facts of the situation.

Nobody here wants to burst into your back garden like commando's with guns or anything, we are just stating the best possible solutions for your problom.

lads have already suggested making your house fox proof, but as you likely know that will cost you a bunch of money.

It wasn't me!

stevoman wrote: »

that will cost you a bunch of money.

And probably won't do an amazing job. If you have reservations about using a pest control company, but do settle on humane culling, get someone you know who shoots (everyone seems to know someone) to do the job humanely. Given you're talking about the size of an urban garden, a .22lr with subsonics is probably the way to go. Keeps neighbours happy and such. Talk to your local police about whether they'd be okay with this. Some might, others might not, but it doesn't do to make assumptions. I really can't condone relocating them I'm afraid. It does not work, whatever anyone may tell you. Urban foxes last only as long in the countryside as it takes for them to spread mange to the local population and starve to death. Not the prettiest truth in the world, but there you go.

Vegeta

stevoman wrote: »

In fairness though Girl123, what you are gonna get here are the cold hard facts of the situation.

Nobody here wants to burst into your back garden like commando's with guns or anything, we are just stating the best possible solutions for your problom.

lads have already suggested making your house fox proof, but as you likely know that will cost you a bunch of money.

I am moving this back to A&PI and I think the discussion should focus on her pet dog and the 3 questions she asked in the original post not the destruction of the foxes.

BlackCat2008

As I said before if you can find the right group to remove them they will do a slow release program. They will keep them penned on someones land who is happy to have them , feed them and lookout for them after they are released, then when they are all well will be put into a larger in closer until they adjust to their surrounding, then en closer is opened and food is left there for them until the foxes stop coming back them selfs and are seen to be doing well hunting for them selfs they are not just thrown into the country side with a wave goodbye.

Just make sure your dog is up to date with it's shoots and flea drops, rats and other vermin Carry mange as well not just foxes along with the people who walk their dogs in the park with you unaware. Birds also carrier a lot of mite. Protecting your dog with the basic's is the best thing to do even when no foxes are around.

Board up the shed to stop them coming in and next time your bins are empty scrub them out with bleach and an old sweeping brush and use bin liners to keep it clean so the foxes can't smell them, even at that foxes are very good climbers and will probably get the picture soon enough that there's nothing there for them and just keep on going. I have foxes in my area and none of my animals have ever had mange nor been kill by them and the wild cats have been here for years and look fine to me even the ones I've trapped and neutered never have mange or are not to badly flea infested we need to learn to live side by side with them as we are the one's who forced them into urban area's in the first place we are meant to be the intelligent one's not happy trigger animals after the damage is done.

Vegeta

BlackCat2008 wrote: »

As I said before if you can find the right group to remove them they will do a slow release program. They will keep them penned on someones land who is happy to have them , feed them and lookout for them after they are released, then when they are all well will be put into a larger in closer until they adjust to their surrounding, then en closer is opened and food is left there for them until the foxes stop coming back them selfs and are seen to be doing well hunting for them selfs they are not just thrown into the country side with a wave goodbye.

Do you have any contact details for group you mention above? Would be interested to see their figures and findings.

stevoman

Vegeta wrote: »

Do you have any contact details for group you mention above? Would be interested to see their figures and findings.

+1

whitser

we're giving the op the wrong answers here.
the one she wanted is that she capture the family of foxes and release them into farthing wood were they'll live out their days playing with the other animals in peace and harmony.

bernard0368

Op

Male pee works well with foxes however the urban fox can be and usually is a far braver animal than its country brother. Try a large cut out of a dog moved every night.
Why not let your dog into the garden most likely the fox will avoid confrontation.

Pest control can be cruel and inhumane.
Moving a urban fox to the countryside I feel would be detrimental to the animal.

Girl123

Whitser, I think if you read my original posting, you might get a better sense of what my question was about.

I don't think there are any easy solutions to this problem. Maybe you've taken exception to the fact that I didn't think this should be moved to hunting forum - to be fair, if I'd wanted to find out ways to kill foxes, I would have posted a question on that in the hunting section.

But if you've ever seen your pet dog's ears mostly covered in mange and annoying them like hell, which happened to my dog 6 years ago, you too would want to avoid it happen again. That's why I asked people's advice and thanks to everyone for your suggestions.