Foxes in garden - advice for dog owner

whitser

i've had a break out of mange with my dogs,after getting a dog that had it. and i've also seen foxes rotten with it. the best solution here is a cull. if it was rats you wouldnt think twice. urban foxes were a novilty 10 yrs ago now they're becomoing real pests.

Girl123

To answer other questions - no, haven't heard of any problems with cats going missing.

We're going to try to get in touch with the person responsible for house next door - it is the relative of the person who was living there. We think they are planning to rent out the house in the near future so they'll definitely have to deal with the foxes themselves. Some recent work in the next door back garden meant that earth was moved around and we think the foxes made their den in this area.

There are fox sightings every night - we think that there are fox cubs living in the den so would explain why more are around.

whitser

i colud give you a lend of some hounds, but if you think your dog makes noise barking at charlie, wait til you hear these gals when they smell a fox:D:D.

Whispered

bunny shooter wrote: »

That would be cruelty (against the fox) ! Illegal too ?

Not illegal actually and I was pretty obviously joking. :rolleyes:

hehe, great name too. Obviously veeeeeery worried about cruelty aren't you.

LisaO

Have alook at something like this:
http://www.pestcontrolshop.co.uk/acatalog/strikeback_advanced_animal_repeller_foxes.html

Combined with making your garden as univiting as possible it may help to reduce the problem?

IRLConor

helena.ryan wrote: »

Not illegal actually and I was pretty obviously joking. :rolleyes:

I'm aware you're joking, but AFAIK it actually is illegal unless you're a registered wildlife dealer.

I could be wrong and I'd be curious to find out if someone knows the real story.

Vegeta

helena.ryan wrote: »

Not illegal actually and I was pretty obviously joking. :rolleyes:

Its illegal (as far as my lay understanding goes) unless you are a wildlife dealer or you can prove the animal (any wild animal not specific to fox) was disabled or injured.

sections 45, 22, 23 and 42 of the wildlife act 1976 with the 2000 ammendments and various S.I. s in there too.

Vegeta

IRLConor wrote: »

I'm aware you're joking, but AFAIK it actually is illegal unless you're a registered wildlife dealer.

I could be wrong and I'd be curious to find out if someone knows the real story.

too fast for me you fecker, I went and looked through the other sections and they are just stating its ok if the animal is injured and you intend to return it to the wild, or it is disabled.

Whispered

OH my mistake! My understanding of it was that endangered animals such as hedgehogs, birds etc were illegal to keep, but "pest" species like rats and foxes, you can do what you want with. Doesn't make much sense that it's illegal to house a fox, but not to kill it.

Of course I want to make it clear that I was only joking, and I agree that it's cruel to keep wild animals contained. (almost as cruel as some of our farming practises, hehe, just trying to stir it now) :P

carwash_2006

The laws protecting wild species are not just to protect them from extinction or cruelty. It is also to make sure they stay wild and don't become more of a pest to farm stock. A fox that has been partially tamed is going to be more of a nuisance to farmers as it will not have the necessary fear of man.

If you go down the road of looking for these foxes to be captured and released somewhere else make sure that whatever plan the people doing it is realistic and looks after the welfare of both the foxes and any farmers in that area.

You cannot expect them to just adapt to country living, or if they do, make sure that they will not just get shot by a very angry farmer who is suddenly finding his chickens becoming the foxes dinner.

It wasn't me!

helena.ryan wrote: »

Obviously veeeeeery worried about cruelty aren't you.

I hate to be a complete pedant (well, not really), but shooting really couldn't be considered a cruel death.

Back to the OP, the only thing you can do is contact your local SPCA or similar organisation. People have made their positions clear, and this really shouldn't turn into a debate. Short of the cull option, that's the other obvious route to take. Best of luck.

Vegeta

helena.ryan wrote: »

Doesn't make much sense that it's illegal to house a fox, but not to kill it.

very good point, I suppose one is to prevent prolonged cruelty, potential domestication and urbanisation while the other is to allow for the protection of farm stock and birds/animals the fox preys on.

IRLConor

helena.ryan wrote: »

Doesn't make much sense that it's illegal to house a fox, but not to kill it.

I think the difference is that the latter is primarily done out of economic necessity (farm animal protection or control of a disease vector) rather than the desire to keep an animal as a pet. The former is a "want" and the latter is a "need".

helena.ryan wrote: »

Of course I want to make it clear that I was only joking, and I agree that it's cruel to keep wild animals contained. (almost as cruel as some of our farming practises, hehe, just trying to stir it now) :P

Keep stirring and you'll find that one logical conclusion of that argument is that it's more humane to hunt wild animals for meat than to farm them for it.

Whispered

IRLConor wrote: »

Keep stirring and you'll find that one logical conclusion of that argument is that it's more humane to hunt wild animals for meat than to farm them for it.

This was my very point.

It wasn't me!

I have this lovely dream of someday supplying all my own meat and fish. Living in Wicklow, I could dine like a prince on venison.

IRLConor

helena.ryan wrote: »

This was my very point.

Oh, good. The other logically consistent position is that eating animals is wrong and that we should neither hunt them nor farm them. Not something I agree with, but I respect that position all the same.

lightening

whitser wrote: »

now they're becomoing real pests.

I dunno about that. I live about 5k from Dublin city centre. There is a very healthy population of very healthy fox's and badgers in the area. None of my neighbours have a problem with them. The fox's do however keep the rat and grey squirrel population somewhat at bay. (according to some vet from Trinity I met doing wildlife work in the area).

I think urban wildlife should be encouraged.

Whispered

IRLConor wrote: »

The other logically consistent position is that eating animals is wrong and that we should neither hunt them nor farm them. Not something I agree with, but I respect that position all the same.

I don't eat animals, and I wouldn't hunt, nor would I agree with hunting for fun. It's the lesser of two evils if done properly though (IMO). This is tooootally off topic for this thread. Apologies OP and mods.

Whispered

lightening wrote: »

I think urban wildlife should be encouraged.

Some of my most wonderful memories as a child involves wildlife. My fiance grew up in the city and did not experience anything like that. It would be great for city kids to have some interaction with wild animals, not just pets or on TV.

It wasn't me!

lightening wrote: »

I dunno about that. I live about 5k from Dublin city centre. There is a very healthy population of very healthy fox's and badgers in the area. None of my neighbours have a problem with them. The fox's do however keep the rat and grey squirrel population somewhat at bay. (according to some vet from Trinity I met doing wildlife work in the area).

I think urban wildlife should be encouraged.

Hmm, just to check, but last I checked, there was no veterinary course or department in Trinity, so that may be disputable.

BlackCat2008

Vegeta wrote: »

Do you have any contact details for group you mention above? Would be interested to see their figures and findings.

Doesn't anyone watch animal plant, wildlife rescue run by Simon Cowell if you don't do and if you do pay more attention.
Most of our animal rescue gro
~ups were started in the UK and then came over here to help us ie spca, paws etc so I think it's worth a few calls to see if they have landed yet.

I only back from work so I didn't have time to make any calls but some one has just told me that Marley Park my know who to contact so I'll take a drive up to them tomorrow and ask.

Girl123 You seem to be happy to leave them alone so just make sure your dog is up to date on everything and try to proof the garden. Chances are as soon as there's constant movement next door they'll move on some were else and no one will have to do anything so I'll try to find info on them as well as a why to have them moved and you can choose from there.

lightening

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Hmm, just to check, but last I checked, there was no veterinary course or department in Trinity, so that may be disputable.

He had a big electronic tracker and was working on a project with NUG on red squirrels.

whitser

lightening wrote: »

I dunno about that. I live about 5k from Dublin city centre. There is a very healthy population of very healthy fox's and badgers in the area. None of my neighbours have a problem with them. The fox's do however keep the rat and grey squirrel population somewhat at bay. (according to some vet from Trinity I met doing wildlife work in the area).

I think urban wildlife should be encouraged.

look at the problems they are having in england now with un checked fox populations in cities. they are as big a nusense as rats.
urban wildlife should be encouraged alright, but that doesnt mean let to breed to un sustainable population levels.
op has already said her dog got mange from a fox, and foxes get mange when they are too many in an area. maybe the foxes in your area are healthy but where op is they are mangey.

Whispered

Without a doubt they should be checked. A trap and neuter scheme like with feral cats could work? But that doesn't mean they should all be culled.
(I know you didn't say they should whister)

It wasn't me!

Trap, neuter and release? Does no-one else see that as horrifically cruel? I hate it when done to feral cats; a quick end is far better, but with a completely wild animal? It's unconscionable, in my honest opinion.

lightening

whitser wrote: »

look at the problems they are having in england now with un checked fox populations in cities. they are as big a nusense as rats.

In what way? I googled "urban foxes england" and most of the websites are positive, people don't seem to be bothered. You might find one or two negative ones, but for each one you will find numerous positive ones.

Rats are very very different to foxes. They get in to our kitchens, our bathrooms, their urine carries dangerous diseases. They are built to get in to small places, they can chew through almost anything, they are pretty fearless will get pretty close to humans.

Although the urban foxes are certainly braver than their rural cousins, they are not a danger to us.

Urban wildlife is a positive thing for all of us. I have seen sparrow-hawks, a peregrine falcon, kestrels, kingfishers, I think I saw a harrier, badgers, hundreds of water birds including the growing population of egrets and the amazing European fox.

They are an incredible addition to Dublin. Most of their ancestors were here before us and don't forget, foxes kill rats!

Their numbers are not out of control and comparing them to rats is wrong in my opinion. From what I can gather they are catching mange from our feral cats.

whitser

i love foxes and think its great that we have some in our cities,i've often gone out to howth to watch them at night. but when it comes to keeping numbers down culling is the best method.

lightening

whitser wrote: »

i love foxes and think its great that we have some in our cities,i've often gone out to howth to watch them at night. but when it comes to keeping numbers down culling is the best method.

Yeah, its brilliant. We watch them from the bedroom window. I don't have kids, but when I do, I would hate to think they would be totally dislocated from indigenous wildlife.

OP, sorry for going so off topic.

Whispered

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Trap, neuter and release? Does no-one else see that as horrifically cruel? I hate it when done to feral cats; a quick end is far better, but with a completely wild animal? It's unconscionable, in my honest opinion.

While I appreciate that you are as entitled to opinion, as I am to mine, can you tell me why it is cruel? In my opinion, a quick dart, an operation which they don't remember and release in an environment they are familiar with is much better than killing? Granted, I know very little about wild animals so I could be wrong.

Feral cats are every bit as wild as urban foxes.

Girl123

Black Cat, if you hear of anything, let me know. We're trying out the male urine advice and other suggestions people have had.

I've never heard of a trap, neuter and release scheme for foxes!?

If we didn't have the dog then it would be a non-issue about the foxes as they don't pose any problem for us humans.

There really are a lot of them around, I looked over the back wall last night and saw one straight away . Then later I was out walking the dog and saw 5 fox cubs down on a green (which is where the waste ground behind my house eventually leads on to).

I stayed back with the dog on the lead but my friend walked a bit closer to them. This was 9.30pm by the way. The cubs really showed no fear of him and were just playing away.

One cub looked a bit older and while we were standing there, he crossed the field and then crossed over the road to the other side!

It seems to be an unusually big litter (I thought fox litters were usually 2 or 3 large) and don't seem to be that wary of humans.

Anyhow, our dog was none the wiser as we didn't let her see them. Though one passing neighbour inquired 'Would we not let the dog at them?'

Em...no.