Another positive test...

Raam

el tonto wrote: »

In fairness, it isn't that surprising. If you asked me before the Tour which one of the big names was the most likely fall afoul, he would have been near top of my list. There's been a lot of gossip about him.

I hear you. It's not Ricco that I'm concerned or even surprised about. It's the fact that it's another blow to the Tour.

justfortherecor

Will be interesting to see if there are a few DNF's on the stage today (although that may be a bit too obvious, may be quite a few in the upcoming days).

myself69

They should start testing for Viagra, the new wonder drug.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/2008/06/are-cyclists-ch.html

justfortherecor

Update from cyclingnews:

Directeur sportif Joxean Fernandez Matxin was surprised as anybody. "We only found out ten minutes ago. The entire team is ceasing its operation, not only in the Tour de France."

fish-head

This is awful! I had Ricco tipped to win.. fookin' Nora!

kenmc

i think it's too late - it seems that the results come out about a week or so after the test, so there could be a load of ppl have tested positive but don't know it yet.
Barloworld shed 2 yesterday after accidents, and another just now according to letour newsflashes... is it harsh to read anything into that?

TinyExplosions

el tonto wrote: »

Damn, this is one that changes the complexion of the Tour. It also puts a stain on this year's Giro. You'd think that he would settle for having a naturally high haemocrit of 51%. Obviously not...

Maybe he was a deep plant like I said on Tuesday?

This quote is interesting:

"Directeur sportif Joxean Fernandez Matxin was surprised as anybody. "We only found out ten minutes ago. The entire team is ceasing its operation, not only in the Tour de France.""

-no more Saunier Duval on the ProTour

dedon

Ya Ricco was a total a**hole as well so I'd say there are a lot of happy people out there. Does not look good for the othere riders in that team. Since they did wreck on a good few stages. Like 3 wins and very high placings. Like who is Cobo??

The funny thing about it is David Millar rode with them last year!!

kenmc

maybe we should sticky this thread

justfortherecor

SDV weren't exactly subtle about it. Ricco absolutely leaping from the peleton to win two stages and then Piepoli and Cobo riding away from the chasers on stage 10 to fight the stage win out amongst themselves.

Good riddance.

Orizio

Does anyone know who those ten riders - besides Ricco and Beltran - were who had abnormally high hemacrit levels before the Tour?

TinyExplosions

Just listening to the interview with Matxin Fernandez, and he doesn't say the team will fold -just that he has to see what's happening.

Interestingly, he's also saying that the only reason the team was pulled is because it was Ricco, and if it had been a lesser rider, they'd have stayed in. Also that the product Ricco used is only on the market for 2 months

justfortherecor

Orizio wrote: »

Does anyone know who those ten riders - besides Ricco and Beltran - were who had abnormally high hemacrit levels before the Tour?

The names of the riders weren't released to the public AFAIK, just to the riders themselves in a letter. Not too sure about the accuracy of this story to be honest, could be just a malicious article by Le Monde.

Although, there certainly are riders with HCT levels close to or over the limit from 'natural' biological causes. Obviously Ricco was one, but maybe that was just from him doping for so many years?! Also rumoured are Valverde and Cunego

Funkyzeit

kenmc wrote: »

i think it's too late - it seems that the results come out about a week or so after the test, so there could be a load of ppl have tested positive but don't know it yet.
Barloworld shed 2 yesterday after accidents, and another just now according to letour newsflashes... is it harsh to read anything into that?

No - lads on Eurosport saying exacly that.

Caroline_ie

I am very disapointed ...

zzzzzzzz

Fcuking d1ckheads

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/7511518.stm

Chips Lovell

I don't find this year's Tour half as depressing as the last few. At least this time around there seems to be a systematic testing regime that's actually working. The blood profiling identified a list of riders with suspicious values beforehand and apparently they're targetting these guys with extra testing. Looks like its working.

Few points:

I'd agree that the abandons from yesterday were kind of interesting.

The reaction of Saunier Duval was also interesting, very different to Barloworld and Liquigas.

There's a ticking time bomb in the form of the UCI's blood passports programme. They've been profiling guys all year and already said they've a list of 20 to 30 riders who are suspect. They aren't ready to draw conclusions yet, but when they do, I wonder if any names from the Tour will crop up.

justfortherecor wrote: »

Also rumoured are Valverde and Cunego

Cunego also has a certificate for a naturally high haemocrit.

dedon wrote: »

The funny thing about it is David Millar rode with them last year!!

And he jumped ship fairly quick.

LDB

So disappointing .... I foolishly thought it would be different this year

Caroline_ie

The Pro Tour is looking more and more like WWE Wrestling - We know it's all fake, but we still get excited about it ...

dedon

I'd say we can expect a few more positives from saun duv yet!. Its a new product and they get their hands on it? Madness. It still raises blood levels so they can detect it that way. The fact that they know the exact product is puzzeling. Must be a new test.

I'd say a few guys are getting nervous. big time. Its a pity the testing was not as accuarate back in the Armstrong days

zzzzzzzz

dedon wrote: »

I'd say a few guys are getting nervous. big time. Its a pity the testing was not as accuarate back in the Armstrong days

+1

mcgratheoin

Interesting as well that they tested Ricco 4 times in the first 5 days apparently. Have to have a little smug expression here though - there was a poll on the tdf website where the question was about Ricco finishing in Paris and which jersey might he have - I ticked the option that he wouldn't finish at all.

dedon

The fact that guys are targeted is very good. Blood profiling seems to be working some bit

Fion_McCool

Whaaaat were these eejits thinking when they took the stuff ?

Maybe they should monitor IQ as well as haematocrit...

:mad:

Fion_McCool

mcgratheoin wrote: »

Interesting as well that they tested Ricco 4 times in the first 5 days apparently.

It's very sad for the sport, when the first thing that comes into your mind after seeing some extraordinary athletic cycling feat is - what is he taking ?

smithslist

a blood expert reckons they cant prove him positive, since they wasn't a method to test for this type of EPO available, even thought the drug has being available since the new year......says they knew the drug was used in giro

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/?id=/features/2008/tour08_micera_st12

dedon

I assume the Astana boys knew this drug was available.

Contador was very impressive. Beat Ricco.

Chips Lovell

smithslist wrote: »

a blood expert reckons they cant prove him positive, since they wasn't a method to test for this type of EPO available, even thought the drug has being available since the new year......says they knew the drug was used in giro

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/?id=/features/2008/tour08_micera_st12

That's a brief, but very interesting interview, especially regarding the Giro. Money quote:

"I would say, though, that if the UCI's biological passports had been ready, which they should be soon, Riccò would never have started this Tour."

dedon

smithslist wrote: »

a blood expert reckons they cant prove him positive, since they wasn't a method to test for this type of EPO available, even thought the drug has being available since the new year......says they knew the drug was used in giro

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/?id=/features/2008/tour08_micera_st12

Would u mind posting some of that article here. Cant access that website in work

smithslist

dedon wrote: »

Would u mind posting some of that article here. Cant access that website in work

Tour de France News feature, July 17, 2008
Doping expert stunned by Riccò news

Professor Michel Audran is one of the world's leading experts on blood doping. He is also one of nine independent experts chosen to act as consultants in the formulation of the UCI's biological passport. Daniel Friebe, Procycling features editor spoke to Audran this morning within minutes of L'Equipe's website announcing that Riccardo Riccò has tested positive for an EPO derivative after stage four of the Tour de France, the individual time trial around Cholet.

Daniel Friebe: In the last twenty minutes we've heard that Riccardo Riccò has tested positive for an EPO-like product. The early reports suggest that Riccò used CERA or Micera. a so-called third generation EPO. What's your reaction?

Michel Audran: Wow. I'm stunned. I'm amazed they're saying it's Micera, simply because there's no validated test for that yet. The World Anti-Doping Agency is working on a test, but it certainly doesn't exist yet.

DF: What exactly is CERA, or Micera to give it its commercial name?

MA:It's a delayed-action EPO, which has a different molecular mass from EPO. It's only been commercially available since the start of the year. We can tell when someone's used it but we can't declare them positive. In that respect it's like Dynepo, another EPO-like product. We know that Micera was being used on the Giro, so I'm not surprised that it's also turned up at the Tour. But I would be very surprised if they AFLD had declared Riccò positive for Micera, for the reasons I've just mentioned. Maybe they searched Riccò's room and found the product itself...

DF: What's the difference between Micera and traditional EPO?

MA: It's more convenient for clinical patients. They might only have to take Micera once a fortnight or once a month. EPO has to be administered much more often. The effect for an athlete is the same: raised haematocrit, raised haemoglobin, more oxygen to the muscles. It's funny, because Riccò has UCI certification for his high haematocrit already.

DF: You talked about the differences between EPO and Micera, and also the fact that the latter is visible in tests, even if it, until now, it couldn't lead to a positive test. Could you talk a little more about that?

MA: Well, you see synthetic EPO in urine the form of bars on an electrophoregram. If a rider's taken Micera, the bars are located in a different place to those you see in a simple containing synthetic EPO.

DF: This is the third positive since the start of the Tour. Does that suggest to us that the testing being carried out by the French Anti-Doping Agency (AFLD) is more rigorous that the UCI's?

MA: What the AFLD have done very well is target particular riders. I don't think their tests themselves are any more rigorous, though. They'll be adopting the same criteria for positive tests as WADA. I would say, though, that if the UCI's biological passports had been ready, which they should be soon, Riccò would never have started this Tour.