BT Billing screwed up yet again - can i move?

Supercell

So I got BTBB around the new year..all was great with my newfound speediness.

Then I got my first bill...double what it should have been.
Called the support line and was reassured it was going to be taken care of and my account would be credited.

That was fine..but next bill was roughly what i was expecting a "normal" one to be.
Called the support line and asked for a refund to my bank account this time please.

I got the refund, all was well ..or so i thought.

However, I've just checked my on-line account and they billed me for the last two months plus added on the refund as being in arrears!!

I called their customer care and the original person tried to tell me it was eirrcoms line rental charge or something..I then pointed out that the "arrears" amout is exactly - to the cent what I was refunded in May..she persisted with Eircom this and that (I moved line and everything to BT - in fact last mail I had from Eircom was in January with a cheque enclosed refunding 7 euro line rental for the period I had paid in advance but was now with BT ..).
By some miraculous coincidence "Eircom" through Esat are billing me this month exactly what BT admitted over charging me in Febuary!! , on top of my regular BT line rental....

I asked to speak to a supervisor.

She said my account was in credit that if I read my bill more carefully I would see I had only been billed for this month.
I then asked her why my bank account was showing a debit of exactly this months total plus the "arrears" amount..as per my bill.
She said she would check with the "credit team" and get back to me tomorrow morning.

She was nice and I understand the stress of working in a call centre environment..but a little more honesty and less BS would go a long way..

How fécking hard is it to just bill me what I fécking owe them?

My broadband "contract" started in Febuary..can I move to another provider before then?, this billing stuff is starting to stress me out a bit.
I don't enjoy making complaint phone calls, really is unpleasant. I'd rather just move to someone else that will just provide the service and bill me and not screw up..and if they do, wont take months and months and months to fix it....

Its five months since Esat fécked up my first broadband bill with them and i'm STILL trying to get it sorted out.

Surely I have grounds for moving to another provider without penalty?
At this point I'm willing to forego the 90 odd Euro they are overcharging me for peace/sanity of mind.

jor el

Welcome to the billing nightmare that is BT Ireland. You can expect the debt collectors any day now too, no joke. I just finished (hopefully) a six month ordeal today, with an email to Chris Clark, the CEO of BT Ireland. I cc'd Joe Duffy, Conor Pope, the Consumers Association and ComReg on the email. Got a reply back from Mr Clark within an hour, apologising and promising to get someone on it right away.

I have been in contact with with BT Ireland, the Data Protection Commissioner's Office, a UK based debt collection agency called Credit Solutions Ltd, the Credit Services Association of which Credit Solutions Ltd is a member, the Information Commissioner's Office in the UK, and the CEO of BT Ireland, all over a €50 billing error. Incompetence doesn't even come close to describing them.

Cancel your direct debit now and don't pay over another penny till this is fixed.

chris.clark@bt.com is the top man, emer.2.kennedy@bt.com seems to be something to do with customer complaints, or perhaps she's just the one in charge of fixing the fcuk ups. Full time job in itself, for a whole team even.

dub45

And people wonder why I constantly warn about BT? Quite simply no isp has been so consistently bad at billing for so long - there is no excuse for it whatsoever - there should be a sticky warning people about it. that rant over and of course it wont be the last about BT I am sure I would just like to offer you some advice.

Lousy billing is probably not enough to justify cancelling a contract at least without establishing a paper record of your troubles. As jor el points out above BT are never slow to resort to the debt collectors and you do not want that hassle.

So first things first - cancel your direct debit - that will give you control over your bank account. Now to cancel your direct debit the procedure is to inform your bank so write to your bank explaing that you want to cancel it - hand it in yourself. Write to BT informing them that you want to cancel your direct debit and that you will be happy to pay them the corret charges. Register it. I know it costs money but it is an investment in your financial health for the future.

People should be aware that under the rules of the direct debit scheme disputed charges should not be billed. That means if yoiu get your bill the requisite 14 days ahead of debit date (which of course most people dont!!!!:mad:) you should contact the biller immediately and inform them of the issues and point out to them that you should not be debited. As far as I can see most billers do not know the rules of the scheme and there are no sanctions ever applied to them so they do what they bloodywell like.

Full dd rules can be found at www.ipso.ie.

Supercell

I got a call from them today, they claim the billing is correct.
They are at a loss as to why they refunded me the exact same amount I'm apparently in "arrears" this time around.
I give up at this point.
I've asked for this in writing and will take it from there.

Unfortunately my contract with them runs until December, I've written in my calender to remind me to switch the second i can.

Is there any regulatory body i can complain to about them?

Once i have the written stuff from them I think maybe the small claims court is the way to go?
I plan on writing to all the papers also in the hope that maybe one of my letters gets printed,. I've no doubt at all that mine isn't an isolated case.
I'm mad as hell, I've written off trying to negotiate with their phone staff so unfortunately think the only way forward here is to start pursuing other options.

If i could turn back time to the second i placed my order....what a mistake that was
Thank God all they do is resell, can't imagine what the service would be like if the billing department ethos was in the Eircom technical department.

dogpile

Been through all that nightmare and bought the tee-shirt...

I always managed to get through to different people on the phone and for some inexplicable reason they always seemed to have completely different details on my account!

they are really really awfull:rolleyes:

dogpile

dub45 wrote: »

. Write to BT informing them that you want to cancel your direct debit and that you will be happy to pay them the corret charges.

I did this and decided to make a payment directly into their bank account, I was given their account number and sort code but little did I know the hassle that would ensue! months and months of them trying to "track" a simple lodgement transaction and still not resolved ..

jor el

dogpile wrote: »

I did this and decided to make a payment directly into their bank account, I was given their account number and sort code but little did I know the hassle that would ensue! months and months of them trying to "track" a simple lodgement transaction and still not resolved ..

I made my final payment through Billpay, and BT have no record of receiving it.

I have now received replies from the CEO, Chris Clark, and also Emer Kennedy, Director of Consumer Division. The resolution of my case is apparently in the post. I'll wait and see what happens. I also got a response from ComReg (quite surprised by that) asking that I give BT 10 days, and if I get nowhere to follow up with ComReg and they'll take it up with BT.

They claim my case is an isolated incident and would not be normal practice. Somehow I'm a bit skeptical of this claim, as three years ago I went through exactly the same thing, when closing my line at a previous address. Nothing has changed. I was already on the new account when all that kicked off too. Had I known, I would have stuck with eircom.

foggy_lad

write a formal complaint to them outlining your issues and how exactly they are overcharging you then you can give them ten days to respond before taking further action like cancelling your direct debits with them! you should cancel all direct debits in effect as this will ensure they cant take anymore from your account.

dub45

Supercell wrote: »

I got a call from them today, they claim the billing is correct.
They are at a loss as to why they refunded me the exact same amount I'm apparently in "arrears" this time around.
I give up at this point.
I've asked for this in writing and will take it from there.

Unfortunately my contract with them runs until December, I've written in my calender to remind me to switch the second i can.

Is there any regulatory body i can complain to about them?

Once i have the written stuff from them I think maybe the small claims court is the way to go?
I plan on writing to all the papers also in the hope that maybe one of my letters gets printed,. I've no doubt at all that mine isn't an isolated case.
I'm mad as hell, I've written off trying to negotiate with their phone staff so unfortunately think the only way forward here is to start pursuing other options.

If i could turn back time to the second i placed my order....what a mistake that was
Thank God all they do is resell, can't imagine what the service would be like if the billing department ethos was in the Eircom technical department.

One of the greatest ever understatements on boards:)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054952665

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055257940

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055040773



The list goes on and on and on and will keep going on and on and on:mad:

vibe666

you can add me to that list too (twice) and then took 92 days to get my phone and DSL back on when I moved house even tho the new place was just in the 'soft-off' mode and still had a dial tone.

i cancelled my DD with them 4 times and they re-created it without my permission and when i complained to the bank they kept telling me they were powerless to stop BT from stealing my money. way to go PTSB!

the ONLY way to solve these sorts of problems is to completely bypass all the callcentre plebs and go straight to the top.

in my case a few years ago it was bill murphy, but he's long gone now (no doubt after some kind of nervous breakdown from all the stress) but chris clarke is the man now, so go to him directly (cc'd to comreg etc.) and politely (but firmly) list all your problems and what you've tried to do to resolve it and ask that this be resolved and he will make sure it is passed to someone with a brain.

dub45

vibe666 wrote: »

you can add me to that list too (twice) and then took 92 days to get my phone and DSL back on when I moved house even tho the new place was just in the 'soft-off' mode and still had a dial tone.

i cancelled my DD with them 4 times and they re-created it without my permission and when i complained to the bank they kept telling me they were powerless to stop BT from stealing my money. way to go PTSB!

the ONLY way to solve these sorts of problems is to completely bypass all the callcentre plebs and go straight to the top.

in my case a few years ago it was bill murphy, but he's long gone now (no doubt after some kind of nervous breakdown from all the stress) but chris clarke is the man now, so go to him directly (cc'd to comreg etc.) and politely (but firmly) list all your problems and what you've tried to do to resolve it and ask that this be resolved and he will make sure it is passed to someone with a brain.

Again some of the many appalling aspects of the banking side of the dd syster. The staff clearly even now do not know the rules of it - there is a suspicious lack of literature about it in branches. There is no proper 'third party' complaints procedure. When a bank f**cks up as yours did in this case there is really no where to go to complain - the dd scheme does not provide for it. If companies knew that there were very heavy mandatory penalites for breaching the system particularly reinstating direct debits then they would be more careful. As it stands the only one ever sanctioned in the dd world is the payer. Miss a dd payment and it can cost you upwards of 25 euros - the companies and the banks can do what they bloodywell like without any fear whatsoever.

I am also amazed that the bank's accounting/internal audit/security people can stand over a system which so easily allows a customer's accounts to be accessed.


The said Mr Murphy used to have a good reputation on boards for dealing with complaints - what I could never understand was that seeing as how he got so many of them (as have his successors) that he never asked himelf 'Whats bloodyweel wrong here????'''''

A family member worked there for 5 years and it is a nightmare what is going on. While they were working there we had billing issues that we never got resolved . They event brought the bill to the supervisor and had no luck. In the end i was out by 60 quid.

They worked there since it was Esat and really loved the company. But they have let go alot of the Irish Managers in there and had them replaced, with managers from the UK and Northern Ireland. This caused alot of bad atmosphere. The billing department is terrible and had temps working in it. Some temps have been made team leaders and managers. I might sound racist in saying this but irish people have become a minority within the company. I know first hand they are being pushed out of the company, but its been done in such a way that they are covered in what they are doing.

I dont mind mistakes happening in billing as long as there is a system there to get them sorted . But its just getting worse and worse there. Now there are some good workers there especially on the business side. I would highly consider them for a business. But residentially not a chance.

vibe666

BT apparently have something called a paperless DD system which allows them to set up DD's with the banks purely going on their word that they are legit and tha tthey have valid authorisation from the customer and they can seemingly re-do it as often as they like on that basis and the bank can't do a thing to stop them.

dub45

vibe666 wrote: »

BT apparently have something called a paperless DD system which allows them to set up DD's with the banks purely going on their word that they are legit and tha tthey have valid authorisation from the customer and they can seemingly re-do it as often as they like on that basis and the bank can't do a thing to stop them.

This is not just BT its the latest form of dd - its called direct debit plus for some ironic reason given how many minuses are attached to it. Its an appalling invention. It allows companies to sign people up over the phone so obviously no signature is required.

The companies are supposed to confirm the sign up in writing within three days.
The worst thing about the 'plus' thing is that the default notice period is only seven days - this will inevitably mean that the customer will not get even seven days notice knowing how the companies behave and there will be no time at all to dispute misbilling. I cannot understand how any responsible auditor/security types approve these schemes - there are a recipe for disaster. In my experience of the dd plus thing they certainly do not warn you over the phone of the seven days notice.

Anyways just to confirm that dd complaints are not confined to boards:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=648997

Cabaal

Had two complaints with BT Business over billing, both times I had to dump my idiot account manager and instead e-mailed all the high up people I just happend to have e-mail address for

Both times within two days my complaints were sorted,

dub45

Cabaal wrote: »

Had two complaints with BT Business over billing, both times I had to dump my idiot account manager and instead e-mailed all the high up people I just happend to have e-mail address for

Both times within two days my complaints were sorted,

Thats all very well but what happens to 'ord folk' who don't happen to have these email addresses? And these high up people have long known of the BT billing probs and have done absolutely nothing over the years. High ups come and go in the there the institutionalised disfunctional billing system lives on.

jor el

dub45 wrote: »

Thats all very well but what happens to 'ord folk' who don't happen to have these email addresses? And these high up people have long known of the BT billing probs and have done absolutely nothing over the years. High ups come and go in the there the institutionalised disfunctional billing system lives on.

Well, for the moment, everyone should email their complaint to
chris.clark@bt.com
and cc
complaints@btireland.ie, emer.2.kennedy@bt.com, joe@rte.ie, cai@consumerassociation.ie, pricewatch@todayfm.com, Consumerline@comreg.ie

Include a detailed description of your complaint. I gave a synopsis in my email, and attached an 11 page PDF of the actual details. Maybe if Joe Duffy sees enough of the exact same complaint going through, showing it's not an isolated incident as is oft claimed, that they might do some sort of exposé on it.

Leatherbelly

i know i only come on here the odd time to do research and take soundings but i have to say dub45 that it's starting to stand out slightly to me that you are kinda obsessed with BT !!! Were you ever a customer?

What has you so aggrieved as a moderator that you talk about them every week???!!

dub45

Leatherbelly wrote: »

i know i only come on here the odd time to do research and take soundings but i have to say dub45 that it's starting to stand out slightly to me that you are kinda obsessed with BT !!! Were you ever a customer?

What has you so aggrieved as a moderator that you talk about them every week???!!

How perceptive you are Leatherbelly! You mean its only now after all these years that you are noticing:)

I was never a customer. I talk about them because I am appalled that a so called reputable company has for years put people through so much misery and continues to do so. If I was aware of any other company that behaved in a similar manner I would equally attempt to warn people about them.

It astonishes me that a company with such obviously messed up systems over a long period can continue to operate and that the media don't slaughter them. Other companies have gotten bad publicity for a lot less.
It also appalls me that their internal audit and management people can stand over such obviously flawed systems. How many times should a person have to ring up to ask them for a bill for it to strike somebody no matter how slow they may be that there is something fundamentally wrong somewhere? And thats not to even get started on their lousy billing, reinstating cancelled direct debits etc etc.

In a properly run country with proper protection for consumers companies such as BT would not be allowed to operate in such a slip shop manner. And I use the term slip shop in all charity.

You might also note that in recent discussions their appalling deposit system has not been mentioned so I could have been worse on them.

If I can save even one person from their clutches my life will have been worth living:)

And by the way I have acknowledged in the past that their bb appears to be excellent its just the rest thats appalling!

Are you still a customer of theirs? It took you a long time to get a bill before I notice but then you seemed to get quite fond of them!

Leatherbelly

Yes know what you mean but....bit weird to talk soooo much about a company that you have no direct experience of as a customer??!! Jor El i can understand, his story doesn't sound good at all at all, but he has first hand experience so makes sense that he writes about it..........anyway just an observation that struck me, no big deal. Nite!

dub45

Leatherbelly wrote: »

Yes know what you mean but....bit weird to talk soooo much about a company that you have no direct experience of as a customer??!! Jor El i can understand, his story doesn't sound good at all at all, but he has first hand experience so makes sense that he writes about it..........anyway just an observation that struck me, no big deal. Nite!

Lousy companies affect us all in one way or another because they set lousy standards which become acceptable. BT have an excellent BB product but to me they are completely unrecommendable and thereby lessen the competition in the bb market.

If a company behaves properly (which of course it should anyways) and offers good customer service it increases the standards for all others to compete with. And we all ultimately benefit by that. Imagine if UPC had really good customer service to go with their new bb products:)

Also in the past two friends of mine paid up money to ESAT/BT they felt they did not owe simply to get debt collectors off their back.

Leatherbelly

You sound very officious dub45 - shouldn't you be out and about having beer/fun and not trying to save us all from broadband companies.........

admol

Leatherbelly wrote: »

You sound very officious dub45 - shouldn't you be out and about having beer/fun and not trying to save us all from broadband companies.........

Leatherbelly you don't work for BT by any chance do you? You seem to have a lot of posts about them.

dub45

Leatherbelly wrote: »

You sound very officious dub45 - shouldn't you be out and about having beer/fun and not trying to save us all from broadband companies.........

I am out and about I have my laptop with me so that I dont miss any opportunity to warn people about BT - opps nearly spilled drink on the keyboard there.

I may pursue my 'problem' in the personal issues forum watch out for it there!

I appreciate your concern for my social life though!:) But should you not be out having fun too rather than worrying about me worrying about BT?

Speaking of being officious I notice that your posts in the past have had a tendency to be anti Smart any reason for that? and a sort of pro - ish tendency for BT and you say you work in the industry.........?

Leatherbelly

Wow such suspicion from people who pass comments all day long hiding behind pseudonyms! I love it! My partner worked in BT two years ago so guess they'd be on my radar more than the others. And i'm glad you are researching my posts as much as I'm researching yours -now admol, let me guess - eircom employee?

Sponge Bob

Leatherbelly wrote: »

Wow such suspicion

If you cannot fix BT Irelands Fraudulent Billing Dept Leatherbelly then please refrain from snide remarks at those who have consistently tried to do so over a number of years. Dub45 for example.

dub45

Leatherbelly wrote: »

Wow such suspicion from people who pass comments all day long hiding behind pseudonyms! I love it! My partner worked in BT two years ago so guess they'd be on my radar more than the others. And i'm glad you are researching my posts as much as I'm researching yours -now admol, let me guess - eircom employee?

Yes indeed LEATHERBELLY hiding behind a pseudonym is a lousy cowardly thing to do:rolleyes: Boards should definitely not allow it.:D

parsi

Perhaps rather than letting leatherbelly give out we should have suvryes back again to deal with BT complaints.

I note that Emer Kennedy now has .2. is her address which shows that she must be getting barrel loads of complaints. I hate to say but in my BT billing disputes it was UTV (Hello Harriet) who drove the issue. Note also that BT are charging for less than 1 minute calls,

At work we also dealt with BT and found their corporate billing system to be equally poor...

@leatherbelly - feck off...dub45 has been anti many providers incl Bt and UTv...

gymnipities

Leatherbelly, the incompetence of BT is of a completely different magnitude to anything I have ever experienced anywhere else. You should consider yourself lucky that you obviously don't know what you're talking about. I'm jealous of your ignorance.

cgarvey

Not "hiding behind pseudonyms", I can fully support dub45 as being a fair criticiser and consumer advocate .. it's more of him we need.

Ever since BT Ireland started operations they've had billing issues. They've had high-profile apologies and announcements of new billing systems a number of times since, but nothing has changed. You still have to jump through hoops to get to talk to someone about THEIR billing error, and then you can rarely get to speak to the same person familiar with your case.

Coupled with the fact that consumers have damn-all protection under Direct Debit Plus (and the banks are not interested in the little bit of protection consumers have), I, for one, am glad dub45 and many others here are highlighting these issues with BT.

watty

Vote ++ for Dub45