BT Billing screwed up yet again - can i move?

jor el

Well, I got the final resolution of my case today. A letter arrived (I know, I can't believe a letter made it out of BT's head office either) with an apology, an assertion that this is the end of it and the debt collectors have been called off. Apparently, it's all down to human error. They even refunded me my over payment, which it states in their T&Cs that they don't do. They have also said they are refunding me €107 (equivalent to my usual bi-monthly bill) as a gesture of good will. Letter signed off by Mr. Clark, it pays to go to the top I guess.

They point out that there is actually mention of BT passing info on to it's affiliates in the T&Cs (section 14.2), which I had missed, for the purpose of credit validation and accurate billing. Not too sure that this exactly extends to debt collectors without proper validation of the debt being real, so I may do some further looking into this. I'm not happy with everything I had to go through, over €50 of all things, but at least it's done with now. I can just hope that, since BT have more than likely negated all profit made from my account in three years with them, that they learn something from it.

They confirm that the cancellation notification period is actually 14 days, and not the 30 days that everyone (including their own CS agents) seems to be under the impression that it is.

For everyone else, if you're having problems, put everything in writing, be as detailed as you can, address it to the CEO, and see where that takes you.

dub45

jor el wrote: »

..................................

They point out that there is actually mention of BT passing info on to it's affiliates in the T&Cs (section 14.2), which I had missed, for the purpose of credit validation and accurate billing. Not too sure that this exactly extends to debt collectors without proper validation of the debt being real, so I may do some further looking into this. I'm not happy with everything I had to go through, over €50 of all things, but at least it's done with now. I can just hope that............................. they learn something from it.

.......................................

For everyone else, if you're having problems, put everything in writing, be as detailed as you can, address it to the CEO, and see where that takes you.

Unfortunately given what Surveys previously went through hoping that BT will learn is usually a triumph of optimism over experience. However hopefully Mr Clark's involvement will not cease at signing your letter and he will begin to ask a few questions..............maybe even about how can something like this happen?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56712523&postcount=174

Sponge Bob

BT will learn nothing unless this thread or the other long running one is stickied up there with the rest of the fraudster scum

Solair

Simple way of making your bank pay attention.
Tell them you are moving your current account, your savings and your mortgage if they don't do something about it.

There's no excuse for allowing a company to create unauthorised DDs.

dub45

Solair wrote: »

Simple way of making your bank pay attention.
Tell them you are moving your current account, your savings and your mortgage if they don't do something about it.

There's no excuse for allowing a company to create unauthorised DDs.

The biggest problem here is the direct debit system itself. It is this system which perpetuates this absolute nonsense. As I keep pointing out the only one ever sanctioned under the direct debit system is the person paying the direct debit - the biller can f**k up the bank can f**k up without any fear whatsoever but you miss your direct debit and it costs you upwards of €25.

If companies who reinstated a direct debit after it being cancelled had a fear of being charged with fraud that would change their attitude.

Each direct debit agreement should carry a unique number like a cheque and this would allow it to be cancelled easily.

Solair

I'd go a step further. If a company abuses DD, it should simply be banned from using the service for say 12 months.

The costs of having to process every bill by paper would concentrate a few minds!

Have you considered taking a complaint to the Financial Services Regulator?

Or, to the Data Protection Commissioner?

BT shouldn't actually have your bank account details if you've cancelled the DD with them.. What are they doing with them and why are they using them!?

Actually, if they've no authorision whatsoever to take money out of your account, it's possibly just theft.
You could take it up with the Gardai?

I don't see it as being any different from keeping a copy of a key of an apartment that you've moved out of and then going in and stealing the telly 6 months later because you feel the landlord owes you something!

Also, since the DD was not authorised, the bank MUST refund under the terms of the scheme.
If they fail to do so, tell them you'll gladly sue them.

You should definitely make a complaint to the bank and then to the financial services regulator.

dub45

Solair wrote: »

I'd go a step further. If a company abuses DD, it should simply be banned from using the service for say 12 months.

The costs of having to process every bill by paper would concentrate a few minds!

Have you considered taking a complaint to the Financial Services Regulator?

Or, to the Data Protection Commissioner?

BT shouldn't actually have your bank account details if you've cancelled the DD with them.. What are they doing with them and why are they using them!?

Actually, if they've no authorision whatsoever to take money out of your account, it's possibly just theft.
You could take it up with the Gardai?

I don't see it as being any different from keeping a copy of a key of an apartment that you've moved out of and then going in and stealing the telly 6 months later because you feel the landlord owes you something!

Unfortunately I think it would be very hard to get the Gardai to take such a complaint seriously. The problem is that the direct debit scheme is run for the benefit of the biller not the consumer. The payer who has everything to lose based on the fact that he gives his bank account number out has no representation whatsoever under the scheme.

If you read the full scheme you will see that any 'error' on the part of the biller will be awarded 'eventually' with a slap on the wrist and the biller will get plenty of opportunity to correct the error of their ways long before that.
Quite simply the biller has nothing to fear whatsoever no matter what they may do on the payer.

There is no requirement anywhere in the direct debit scheme for the biller to remove a payer's records from their systems. That is appalling.

Some months ago I cancelled my direct debit with o2 because they were not abiding by the notice period of 14 days. (Of course there is no provision anywhere in the scheme to complain officially about such a serious breach) the girl I spoke to on the phone was adamant that o2 were correct in their interpretation of the scheme - 02 debit you fourteen days after the date of the bill - she admitted to me that she had never read the direct debit scheme. I asked her to confirm to me in writing that my bank details would be removed from the system - I am still waiting of course!!!

Mezcita

Man, this brings back memories. I had the same hassle being charged twice for about six months. Only got sorted once I threatened legal action on them.

Cancelled the direct debit and only pay when the call me up now after the bill and varous warning letters arrive. Each and every time I get asked if I would consider paying by direct debit....

Solair

I think this should be taken up with the data protection commissioner.

If a company no longer has any need to hold your bank details, they simply shouldn't have them.

Personally I think DD needs to be looked at from a legal perspective. It wasn't quite so wide open to abuse when the companies who were using DD were relatively reputable i.e. people really only had DDs to state owned utilities like ESB, Telecom Eireann or to large banks etc for recurring payments.

However, these days there are countless organisations, many of whom seem to be rather 'difficult' to deal with pushing for DD payment and it seems the banks are quite happy to just give open access to your current account without any form of control.

The banks do have to provide an indemnity in the event of a DD error, but it seems most of them are unaware of when this is supposed to apply.

Also, from my own experience, there's absolutely no point in dealing with your bank's call centre staff on the telephone banking line when it comes to a DD error. It seems that Direct Debits are controlled at branch level.

When I have had a problem with DD I have gone straight to the branch manager. I had a gym re-establishing DDs without authorisation. The branch manager took a very serious view of it and did sort it out. As far as I know he actually rang the company involved.

The phone banking people are fine if you just want to check your balance or do something fairly mundane to your account, but in general they're worse than useless with a disputed payment.