No NCT an offence?

TheNog

esel wrote: »

With respect, I think you may not be correct here. Does the '2 months' not refer to expired road tax, not NCT? Section 41 (1) (c) of the Road Traffic Act, 1994 states:

So, a vehicle can be detained if the road tax is expired for 2 months or more.

From else where on your link,

might seem to refer to NCT, but is actually referring to the DOE annual test, not the NCT. From S.I. No. 771/2004 — European Communities (Vehicle Testing) Regulations, 2004, the class of vehicles is described as:

Elsewhere in the same S.I., it it stated that the test is an annual test, which confirms that it not referring to the NCT.

So, we still do not have a cite to a regulation stating that a vehicle to which the NCT applies can be detained if there is no valid certificate in force. I'm not saying such a regulation does not exist, just that it hasn't been cited in this thread yet.

Section 41 of the 1994 act did refer only to road tax only but the NCT is now covered under section 41 as amended by the 2006 act in part (f) of section 19 of the 2006 act which amends the irish version of the EU Directive 96/96/EC.
It took me a while to figure it out with the irishstatutebook.ie but here is a break down.

EU Directive 96/96/EC -

Led to the testing of all vehicles in the EU so the Government created the NCT act

S.i. no 395/1999


so therefore NCT comes under Section 41 as amended which entitles a Garda to seize a car or other vehicle (for no DOE) where the roadworthiness cert has expired for more than 2 months.

Sorry the links are long and it took it me some time to sort through all the acts

Guy:Incognito

Downtime wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but the reminder for the due date for an NCT is on your tax renewal certificate. It clearly states when your NCT is due.

It is, but that cant be let get in the way of a good rant now can it?

Esel

TheNog wrote: »

Section 41 of the 1994 act did refer only to road tax only but the NCT is now covered under section 41 as amended by the 2006 act in part (f) of section 19 of the 2006 act which amends the irish version of the EU Directive 96/96/EC.
It took me a while to figure it out with the irishstatutebook.ie but here is a break down.

EU Directive 96/96/EC -

Led to the testing of all vehicles in the EU so the Government created the NCT act

S.i. no 395/1999


so therefore NCT comes under Section 41 as amended which entitles a Garda to seize a car or other vehicle (for no DOE) where the roadworthiness cert has expired for more than 2 months.

Sorry the links are long and it took it me some time to sort through all the acts

I would like to draw my learned friend's attention to a minor detail in the aforesaid part (f) of section 19 of the 2006 act, and I quote:

(f) in the case of a vehicle registered in another Member State, the vehicle is, or a member of the Garda Síochána is of the opinion that it is, being so used without a proof of passing a roadworthiness test in accordance with Council Directive 96/96/EC of 20 December 1996 1 which is for the time being in force in respect of the vehicle.”.

specifically the words 'a vehicle registered in another Member State'. As my client's vehicle is registered in this state, would my learned friend agree that this section does not apply in this case?

Esel

Downtime wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but the reminder for the due date for an NCT is on your tax renewal certificate. It clearly states when your NCT is due.

However, the NCT could be 11 months out of date by the time you receive your tax renewal notification!

congo_90

been meaning to ask this for a while now (sorry if hijacking). I cant get time off work so its weekends for me.. The ONLY available weekend date is 20th september which i booked cc 2weeks ago. Can I just say to the garda i'm waiting to do it?

Wizard007

Ok...I get all of the above ( and love the "It is, but that cant be let get in the way of a good rant now can it?" )

Tell me this guys....if the NCT tests are there to supposedly ensure that vehicles beyond a certain age are road worthy, how come they are two years apart? On alot of threads here I've seen people posting that they own vehicles over ten to fifteen years and more, old. Surely two years is too far apart for vehicles that old? If their sole reason is road safety? Am I wrong?

galwaytt

fwiw, the whole thing is a scam.

Like another poster, I only got a 12 mth NCT for mine, due to the date issue, but I still got charged full whack. For half-a-cert, I should pay half.

Secondly, reminders: the fact is, as again someone else pointed out: 500k vehicles x €0.55 (stamp) + €0.45 (typing, printing, admin) = €500k p.a. for SGS to keep for themselves. They need to be forced to send out reminders. ESB do it. Tax Office do it. Revenue do it. VISA do it. Even the M50 Toll comedians will write to you over €3. So, no excuse for SGS not to. Ooops, see €500k, above........:rolleyes:

Standards.......mmm, perverse, sometimes: cars that should pass don't, others that shouldn't, do........God help people who don't know anything about cars, they're being made out to be eejits sometimes......

mcwhirter

towel401 wrote: »

the NCT has very little to do with safety. we knew that before they brought it in and even for the short while they did enforce it nothing really changed. it has a lot more to do with getting old cars off the road, and new cars on the road than it has to do with safety

So if we didn't have a NCT and someone didn't service their car for years and ended up with worn brake pads/discs, faulty suspension, corrosion, then what would happen to the condition of the cars out there.

Should be every year though rather than 2, if the government really gave a toss about safety.

mcwhirter

bryanmurr wrote: »

Its even lazier not to check your windscreen for the expiry date.



Your notified of your initial test




This law has only been introduced, and there has been some seized
already

Maybe it is an irish nation thing, nothing gets done here by these twats of a government, everbody has to scrape around for the smallest bit of information. Its a joke. Just send the reminder ffs

vibe666

bryanmurr wrote: »

Its even lazier not to check your windscreen for the expiry date.

Your notified of your initial test

the thread is mainly about imports.

we didn't get notified of an initial test and as new imports we don't have a previous one.

just as a note here, my car is over 12 years old but it's only done 70,000 miles and has been well maintained and serviced regularly every 6000 miles since new. my mate on the other hand has a company car with over 250k miles on it, its rarely serviced and gets thrashed to within an inch of it's life on a daily basis and is totally knackered but it is apparently not required to have it's NCT for another year.

hardly a perfect system. :rolleyes:

galwaytt

mcwhirter wrote: »

So if we didn't have a NCT and someone didn't service their car for years and ended up with worn brake pads/discs, faulty suspension, corrosion, then what would happen to the condition of the cars out there.

Should be every year though rather than 2, if the government really gave a toss about safety.

No. It has nothing to do with safety. The presence, or absence, of an NCT tells you nothing about the safety, or anything else, of any car. And you can't use it in court to prove it, either - that's why insurance companies still have to use assessors to inspect cars involved in claims. You don't think ins co's would keep paying them if they thought they could not, surely.....?

- ffs they can't even test 4wd/awd cars...........so, subtract all those Audi's and Subaru's - what, they don't need a test ? (Ironic: do SGS not test those in the homeland ??)

The only reason we have an NCT is because the EU said so. And the only reason it operates the way it does is because that's the profitable way for SGS to do it. Everything else is waffle.

DannyBuoy

galwaytt wrote: »

No. It has nothing to do with safety. The presence, or absence, of an NCT tells you nothing about the safety, or anything else, of any car.

With respect, thats rubbish. Of course it does. For example the brake test measures the braking effort of the vehicle. The suspension is tested mechanically. (Ever driven a car with poor shocks?). The vehicle is also subject to both a visual and mechanical inspection on a hoist by a qualified mechanic where such issues as poor brake lines or suspension mountings or chassis issues are noted.

galwaytt wrote: »

- ffs they can't even test 4wd/awd cars...........so,

Eh, yes they do, the rolling road in the centre isn't capable of testing brake effort on a 4 wheel drive so a seperate tool know as an decelerometer or Tapely meter is used outside the centre.

I've brought enough of cars for test to know this much, ask anyone in the motor trade if it highlights safety issues. It does, it has its faults, sure, but to say it tells you nothing about safety is wrong.

blastman

esel wrote: »

I would like to draw my learned friend's attention to a minor detail in the aforesaid part (f) of section 19 of the 2006 act, and I quote:
specifically the words 'a vehicle registered in another Member State'. As my client's vehicle is registered in this state, would my learned friend agree that this section does not apply in this case?

So we're still not absolutely sure the NCT is coverd by this act, then?

Esel

Nog, any opinion on my post (64 above)? Is there a legal basis for seizing a car which has no NCT?

Eru

esel wrote: »

Nog, any opinion on my post (64 above)? Is there a legal basis for seizing a car which has no NCT?

Yes, directly before Section f is Section E which refers to Irish registered vehicles:

e) the vehicle is, or a member of the Garda Síochána is of the opinion that the vehicle is, being so used in contravention of Regulation 19(1) of the European Communities (Vehicle Testing) Regulations 2004 (S.I. No. 771 of 2004), or

(f) in the case of a vehicle registered in another Member State, the vehicle is, or a member of the Garda Síochána is of the opinion that it is, being so used without a proof of passing a roadworthiness test in accordance with Council Directive 96/96/EC of 20 December 1996 1 which is for the time being in force in respect of the vehicle.”.


Pay particular attention to the 'OR' between Section E and Section F as one deals with Irish registered vehicles whereas the second deals with foreign registered vehicles. Nog clearly got them mixed up.

5 pages but Karlitosway1978 solves the issue with one post!

Esel

K1978, see my post 61 above. Section e) relates to DOE, not NCT.

aingeal_croi

allybhoy wrote: »

Same thing happened to me recently, went through the same checkpoint twice in half an hour, 1st time no issues, 2nd time the garda asked y I hadnt got an nct,I said it was recently imported etc etc, he said he could take the car off me if he wanted and to produce all my details, insurance certificate etc down in the station in 10days. Went down the station that night and gave them everything, they barely looked at the forms just said "yep thats grand ill put you in the system as having produced ". Didnt mention anything about an NCT, although I have since applied for it.

Gosh I had the same thing happen to me and when I produced my docs the guard just handed me the NCT booking letter back and said literally and I mean word for word "I have put that you have produced your NCT but please get your NCT done at your earliest convenience"!!??

aingeal_croi

congo_90 wrote: »

been meaning to ask this for a while now (sorry if hijacking). I cant get time off work so its weekends for me.. The ONLY available weekend date is 20th september which i booked cc 2weeks ago. Can I just say to the garda i'm waiting to do it?

Most guards would be reasonable I would think in considering that you are taking active steps to complete the NCT on your car...course you never can be sure! Just keep the letter as proof that you have the car booked in with you in the car. If the cars NCT has only just expired I would say they would exercise compassion around that its not like you are doin nought about it!

pajodublin

i received a Double Summons today for NCT offences
1. Failure to Proiduce an NCT certificate
2. Use of vehicle without NCT certificate

I am now up in court for something that the Garda who stopped me said he would let go,
But can you tell me one thing, if you fail your NCT are you supposed to leave your car there or drive it to get it fixed because as far as i can see this is USE OF A VEHICLE WITHOUT NCT CERT

He first asked me to produce in 10 days and when i explained how impossible this was due to the booking system being full at the time, i had a booking for 3 weeks time. He said ok i'll let that go but i'll have to write you up for the other offence which was Disobeying a traffic signal.

Now i know his word means f**k all now, am i better off just saying nothing in court and taking the fine. and also will i need a solicitor?

Darragh29

Onkle wrote: »

It is an offence not to have a valid nct cert. He could summons you for it if he likes

And on conviction, a 5 point penalty point offence at that if I'm not mistaken.

Ring 1890 412 413 at 7:30PM this evening and tell them you are looking for a cancellation at your local test centre, or for any test centre in the county that you live in, if you can travel to another test centre. If they have no cancellations, ring the number above at 8:00AM in the morning and ring on the hour all day, you will get a cancellation within a day or two, you just have to be persistant. Ring between 7:30PM and 8:00PM or just after 8:00AM in the morning. Have your reg number to hand and your chosen test centre and another few test centres in nearby towns...

Esel

pajodublin wrote: »

...Ii had a booking for 3 weeks time. He said ok i'll let that go but i'll have to write you up for the other offence which was Disobeying a traffic signal....

Contact him immediately and remind him of what he told you. It'd be a good idea to have your NCT cert too.

Darragh29 wrote: »

And on conviction, a 5 point penalty point offence at that if I'm not mistaken.

I'm pretty sure it was said on this forum that there are no points for this offence (as yet).

Johnny Storm

kbannon wrote: »

...
Just because you know some big words doesn't mean that your post is correct!

Same to you, pal.

galwaytt

DannyBuoy wrote: »

With respect, thats rubbish. Of course it does. For example the brake test measures the braking effort of the vehicle. The suspension is tested mechanically. (Ever driven a car with poor shocks?). The vehicle is also subject to both a visual and mechanical inspection on a hoist by a qualified mechanic where such issues as poor brake lines or suspension mountings or chassis issues are noted.

I think you're misunderstanding my post - I don't mean that testing a component doesn't indicate whether it's good/bad/indifferent. What I mean is, to do test on Monday, where everything is hunky-dorey, is useless, legally, say.....a week later. If you're in an accident, the insurance companies use an assessor to establish 'roadworthiness' - that is, the condition at the time of the accident. They don't look, and have no need for, an NCT, because, if the vehicle was found to have a roadworthiness issue, you can't go back and blame the NCT. Similiarly, the reverse is also true - i.e., if you have no NCT, and car is inspected by assessor and found to be roadworthy, then - funnily - it's straightforward..........the ins co's expert has give an ok on the car's condition. And those, tbh, are the only real arbiters, in the real world. The rest is just admin for the sake of it.

For this reason, then, to have an NCT every 1 instead of 2 years, or 6 mths instead of 12mths, is fruitless - all it does is generate revenue for the administration involved.

DannyBuoy wrote: »

.... the rolling road in the centre isn't capable of testing brake effort on a 4 wheel drive so a seperate tool know as an decelerometer or Tapely meter is used outside the centre.

Well, this is news to me. Do all centres have them ? However, let's take it on face value that they do. First of all, where to they do the test ? For anyone from around here, there's nowhere you can do that in the Galway centre - the road outside is half gravel and mofo pot holes, once you leave the NCT centre's car park (it's in a private ind estate...), and the car park is........a car park. If they venture outside the estate, you're in a 50kph residential area.......on a hill. Or do they leave town - and go to the dual carriageway ? My point here is that any test of that nature is completely subjective, and is open to question on it's usefulness or relevance. Except from satisfying a paper-trail perspective. I mean, what about the road surface they test on ? If it's the spot where they rev up the diesels before brining them into the test centre.......the tarmac has a scum of oil on it...........and insurance - what if they prang the car?

But it does beg the question I originally posed - why can't the centres test AWD's ? - they have been in widespread road use since 1980 ( and much longer if you include Subaru's...), so obviously there was a corner cut in the tendering process for these places, make the price competitive.........

DannyBuoy

Hi galwaytt, maybe I was mis-undestanding your post, but what you posted was
"The presence, or absence, of an NCT tells you nothing about the safety, or anything else, of any car"

I disagree, I think it does. But good chance we're not going to see eye to eye on that.

As regards the Tapley test, well, good to know I helped. All centres do have them, because its the only way they can test the braking efficiency of an awd vehicle, sitting an awd vehicle into the brake rollers can damage various lsd's or halfshafts or driveshafts in the vehicle as you prob know. As regards where it can be done, the length of the carpark is generally plenty room to do the test, but the lads in the test centre will generally answer a question you have about any part of the test. See p30 of the NTCS manual for information regarding this type of brake test.
This is the only difference in the test between testing an awd and a 2 wheel drive car.
Just to qualify my information, I'm in the motor trade for nearly 30 years, have had more cars tested in the last 8 years than I care to count, as a result of this I'm known in a number my local test centres, which is useful, means I can get an answer to questions without going through the customer services dept (which I have found to be less than informed, but thats another story..).