To Small Claims Court or not?

gimpotronitus

Hi,

I am trying to decide if I should bring a garage to the small claims court or not. To me its an open and shut case, however I would appreciate advice. I'll keep the story anonynmous and quick.

I drive a 03 320D, good nick, low mileage. One morning the car would not start, no matter what I tried so the insurance company sent out a tow truck to tow it to a garage. I specifically told the driver to let the garage know that I would like to be informed of the probable cause and the rough cost of repair before the work took place. This was on a saturday. So they towed it to a nearby garage. The owner of the garage rang me on the monday and told me that it could have something to do with the fuel system but he did not have the equipment to diagnose or fix it and he recommended I bring it to a main dealer. I asked did I owe him anything and he said no, just arrange a tow from his place to the main dealer. I thanked him and told him to bear with me as I was abroad and it might take a bit longer to organise. So I started ringin around for a tow...

The next morning (tuesday) at around mid day, I have a missed call from him and two texts telling me that he found the fault that morning and the charge was 450 euro. I thought this was a bit odd seeing as the day before he told me he was unable to diagnose the problem since he didn't have the equipment. I rang him up and asked him what the problem was. I received a general reply that they cleaned out the fuel system and the car now starts. I thought this was a bit flakey so I pressed him on what the 450 was for - and I got the reply "labour". As I pressed him so more he got aggressive. I said that I had made it clear that I would have liked to have known the rough costs before the work took place and that the day before he had told me to bring it to a main dealer and he basically got angry then and told me he could easily put the car back the way it was(!) if I didn't pay. He basically threatened this twice during the now heated conversation so I just got off the phone in disgust and sent the wife down to collect the car and pay him (I was at this stage worried he would damage the car maliciously, such was the attitute from the guy).

Anyway, I am still abroad at this stage. The next morning, the car wont start. Wife rings garage, garage collects car. He rings wife, says car is fine for him. She goes down to collect, car has trouble starting (he starts it in front of the wife) and is on a slope if that makes a difference.

Wife drives car around for a good spin. Next day - car wont start. So I ring again and explain that the car wont start for a second time. He says he will pick it up - at this stage I just say no, listen I'll bring it elsewhere, I am not confident that he can fix the problem (he had it twice at this stage). I asked for refund, he flatly refused saying "it was for labour".

So anyway, car is now in a main dealer - they have diagnosed a broken fuel injector and are going to fix it. I rang the other garage, informed him of the real problem and asked him to reconsider his decision to not give me a refund and he just said no, he had a solicitor too (even though you dont need one for the small claims court) etc..

I think I have a case for the small claims court. What ye reckon?

biko

Not legal advice - it's pretty much your word against his, unless you have any paperwork?
Chalk it down to experience and leave it.

gimpotronitus

Yes, I have th receipt for the work he did and will have the receipt for the broken fuel injector.

peasant

Where you given an invoice?

Itemised, listing the different costs and the VAT?

gimpotronitus

I havent seen the invoice yet (still abroad) but my wife says it lists a number of cleaning tasks (fuel delivery, fuel rail, etc..) and includes VAT.

gimpotronitus

Invoice lists:

investigate non-start, remove fuel pump (tank unit), remove fuel rail sensor, remove fuel injectors, clean components, clear fuel lines and fuel rail.

biko

So your complaints are:
* Garage did work even though you said not too (before being informed of price)
* They didn't solve problem.

As to first one, word against word.
Second, maybe you can claim but they did put time in (that you didn't ask for).

Maybe Legal Discussion forum can help. Again, boards posters can not give legal advice.

michaelanthony

Go to the small claims court.

peasant

In that case (if it was me) I'd just chalk it up under "another expensive lesson learned". I doubt that there is legislation for incompetence and some work was clearly carried out.

Your agreement not to carry out any work without prior notification was only verbal, I don't know how far that would get you at the small claims court.

How much would it cost to lose a case at the small claims court? Would it be worth a shot anyway? I don't know ...personally I wouldn't want the hassle.

JHMEG

The cost of going to the small claims court is very small, and usually the threat on its own is sufficient.

Henry Ford III

1/. Go to the court.

2/. Why did you pay him day1?

maidhc

peasant wrote: »

How much would it cost to lose a case at the small claims court? Would it be worth a shot anyway? I don't know ...personally I wouldn't want the hassle.

€20.

The scc does not award costs.

BeardyGit

Is he SIMI registered? If so, lodge a complaint with them now. If he didn't have the correct diagnostic equipment to competently troubleshoot a suspected fuel/electronic issue, he shouldn't have started in the first place. Seriously, they won't stand up for him on this one.

On the whole your word against his thing, you only have his word that they spent any time at all removing and cleaning parts. Who says they did anything at all? And why exactly would either the SIMI arbitration panel or the small claims court take his word over yours? My guess on this is that they won't.

To support a claim to either body, I'd suggest you ask the main dealer to provide you with their worklist for troubleshooting the car. They should also be able to provide an educated statement regarding the need for this chancer to have tried what he did, and possibly even confirmation that the work may not have even been done....

Worth a shot I reckon. SIMI complaint will cost you a stamp and envelope, and the SCC will set you back €20 after that if need be.

All the best,

Gil

DM-BM

OP, you said that the invoice states that the fuel rail was removed and injectors cleaned.
Well it could be that he either, didn't check the injectors or he damaged one while removing it.
Find out from the main dealer, exactly what was wrong with the injector, i.e. not working properly, or physically damaged.

Steve

peasant wrote: »

I doubt that there is legislation for incompetence and some work was clearly carried out.

Section 39 of the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980 would appear to cover this.

39.—Subject to section 40, in every contract for the supply of a service where the supplier is acting in the course of a business, the following terms are implied—

( a ) that the supplier has the necessary skill to render the service,

( b ) that he will supply the service with due skill, care and diligence,

( c ) that, where materials are used, they will be sound and reasonably fit for the purpose for which they are required, and

( d ) that, where goods are supplied under the contract, they will be of merchantable quality within the meaning of section 14 (3) of the Act of 1893 (inserted by section 10 of this Act).

This is my opinion having read the above:

The service offered by the garage was to "repair your car", not to clean the fuel system - you didn't know what the fault was and didn't engage them to 'clean the fuel system'. They didn't actually do what they were asked to do and IMO have no legal right to charge you for 'labour' when it didn't solve the problem.
It's like going to get a dent fixed and them charging you for the new steering wheel they fitted without your permission.

Firstly he admitted that he didn't have the capability to fix it which is a breach of section (a). Secondly, he didn't actually fix the problem which is a breach of section (b).

IMO you would have a strong case here, I'd also suggest that you talk to a solicitor if you want to take them to the SCC.

gimpotronitus

Yes I do believe I have a strong case.

I have to admit I am a bit shocked at some of responses: "put it down to experience", "dont want the hassle" etc..

I mean if you gave your 42 inch widescreen TV in for repair, the tv guy "fixes" it, charges you 100 euro and the same problem manifests itself again, you bring it back, he "fixes" it again and it fails again would you just put it down to experience? Dont pursue the matter cos its "hassle"? Just cos its the motor trade it seems acceptable to allow unscrupulous operators to get away with daylight robbery. Unbelievable.

As for my word against his, that's not true: I gave the car in to get fixed, he charged me for fixing it, the car is not fixed. Those are facts, not subjective things that cant be measured!!

Anyway, I definitely plan to take this guy to court. I will also complain to SIMI, the tow company and to the insurance company. He is a total chancer and I have never spoken to someone as unpleasant as this guy in my life, in fact its the worst experience I have ever had with anyone supplying a service of any kind.

cormac_byrne

In my opinion the garage should have called you and said "He couldn't guarantee to fix the problem without all the diagnostic equipment, but in his opinion cleaning the fuel system and checking the injectors was what he would do first, and that it would cost €X. Would you like him to proceed or not?"

I suspect that he found himself with unexpected time between jobs and tried to ring you to suggest something like the above.

However when he didn't get you on the phone, he just went ahead anyway.
That was wrong.

I have no comment on the price he charged, but the work he did appears to have been correct. i.e. clean fuel system /check injectors

Did he do it incompetently?

i.e missed a damaged injector or actually damaged one

I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the apprentice in the main dealer tasked with checking the injectors damaged one and simply charged you for it. (Am not suggesting this as the most likely scenario, just exploring options)

I don't know if a damaged injector should have been obvious to the first garage, or if particular equipment is needed to determine 'damage'. If 90% if the time all that is wrong with them is they're dirty, and all he did was clean them without knowing if any were damaged, that could be seen as reasonable.

If you have evidence from the main dealer that the car was not in the state it should have been in after the work allegedly carried out by the first garage, then you may have a reasonable case.

Otherwise well all it will cost you is €20 plus the time off work

oleras

You can now complete the form online. Its €15, not €20.

https://smallclaims.courts.ie/esmallclaims/claim/Main?page=home&Language=English

FGR

OP I would strongly advise that you most certainly lodge a complaint with the SCC. Judging by what you're saying there was a blatant attempt to bully you into paying for work you did not request. Although you cannot prove that threats were made to damage your car you are entitled to say it and voice that it put you in great disarray.

I know it may not be worth saying but threats aside I've rarely seen the respondent show up at the Small Claims Court. They feel that it may not be worth the hassle if you mean serious business.

The Judge will also take you very seriously; no matter what might be involved. Just remember that even though they may ask you odd and awkward questions they're only doing so to ensure that the matter can be concluded with the Judge being as close to not having a reasonable doubt as possible.

Best of luck!