Liverpool FC & The S*n

DeadSkin

IrishMike wrote: »

Its far from a small percentage in fairness.
They sold 2000 issues in Istanbul the day of the CL final.

This is not a thread to discuss whether people who read tabloids are
intelligent or not, this thread has gone off for the vast majority of posts
why not try and keep it on topic for a while?

Point taken, but only my first paragraph was off topic and I never questioned the intelligence of the people who read tabloids

IrishMike

I know mate wasnt picking on you specifically but its obvious where the latest debate will head.

Helix

DSB wrote: »

If the person actually makes that journey to that stadium most weeks, then fair play to them. I think they're misguided but still fair play. However this just isn't the common case.

so im misguided for being a season ticket holder at villa? lol

Karmafaerie

Jus to get back to an earlier point IrishMike, the figures you quoted are wrong.
The Sun did have a daily readership of over 200,000 in Liverpool, with the News of the World selling 300,000 on the Sunday.
This dropped to 13,000 for the Sun, and less than 20,000 for the NOTW.

The Sun was the most read paper in Liverpool, and if not for the boycott, would have a daily readership of over 300,000 now, going by the increases in readership in the rest of the country.

The average readership of the sun now is over 7,500,000 daily, not the 222,000 that was quoted in your figures.
I really don't know where those figures you had came from but they are more that 35 times wrong!;)

The Sun increased its average daily readership by 57,000 to 7,897,000 in the 12 months to the end of March 2008, compared with the same period the previous year, according to the NRS.

As for the 2,000 copies bought in Istanbull.
Istanbull is an international city.
The greatest European Final in decades had just been played there.
The whole city was in a carnival athmosphere.
Hundreds of Americans, English, Irish, Australian, etc visitors could have bought the paper becasue of the final.
I'm sure some of them were Liverpool fans.
I'm also sure that most of them weren't however.

monkey9

I wouldn't buy the Sun because it's a rag and also cos of the Liverpool thing. It's personal choice.
But i think it's a bit ridiculous for people to be saying that Liverpool fans who read the Sun should be ashamed of themselves etc, i mean get a grip!!
As i say, i don't out of personal choice buy the Sun. But i have no problem with IrishMike posting Liverpool related gossip from that rag along with all the other papers as it's interesting to read of a morning. Whether it's true or not, they're the current rumours and gossip which is what the thread is also about.
I would also point out that IrishMike is not buying their paper, just reprinting whatever Liverpool related story they have so therefore The S*n is not getting any profit from this or any sale figure which is what the protest is about? So f*ck The S*n, just use and abuse it.

monkey9

Helix wrote: »

so im misguided for being a season ticket holder at villa? lol

Ah Jeez, please don't even start that one again. It went completely off-topic. For what it's worth, how you're misguided for having a season ticket to your club, be it in England, i don't know. You're lucky to have one.

oobydooby

The discussion on what makes a real fan wasn't off-point at all IMO and it was well argued.

As a Liverpool fan I don't read the paper in question, even if I'm getting my hair cut and it's there. It doesn't upset me if BBC prints the rumours from that source nor if a Liverpool fan reprints them here but I do find it odd that any Liverpool fan would give that paper any acknowledgement. It gives the paper a sense of credibility which it doesn't deserve. It doesn't offend me personally but it offends many of the regular fans (what some here might term the "real fans") who were there, or whose parents/neighbours/cousins were there or could have been there. They are still asking for a complete apology 19 years later, more or less unanimously, and most fans respect that or learn to respect it. This is the spirit of Liverpool and Liverpudlians to which so many Irish people attach themselves.

Note also that Everton fans also boycott the paper. It was a slur on the whole of Merseyside. Personally I'd expect football fans of other clubs to join in too in their own small ways, like DesF.

OT I try not to buy Nestle or Coca-cola products because of their unethical policies in Africa and South America. I've never been to either continent and even if my little protest is futile, at least I'm not consciously supporting an injustice. I have much more empathy with the people of Liverpool's sense of injustice than I do with the other examples mentioned and I'd find it hard to consider myself a Liverpool fan if I was indifferent to this issue.

lordgoat

oobydooby wrote: »

The discussion on what makes a real fan wasn't off-point at all IMO and it was well argued.

As a Liverpool fan I don't read the paper in question, even if I'm getting my hair cut and it's there. It doesn't upset me if BBC prints the rumours from that source nor if a Liverpool fan reprints them here but I do find it odd that any Liverpool fan would give that paper any acknowledgement. It gives the paper a sense of credibility which it doesn't deserve. It doesn't offend me personally but it offends many of the regular fans (what some here might term the "real fans") who were there, or whose parents/neighbours/cousins were there or could have been there. They are still asking for a complete apology 19 years later, more or less unanimously, and most fans respect that or learn to respect it. This is the spirit of Liverpool and Liverpudlians to which so many Irish people attach themselves.

Note also that Everton fans also boycott the paper. It was a slur on the whole of Merseyside. Personally I'd expect football fans of other clubs to join in too in their own small ways, like DesF.

OT I try not to buy Nestle or Coca-cola products because of their unethical policies in Africa and South America. I've never been to either continent and even if my little protest is futile, at least I'm not consciously supporting an injustice. I have much more empathy with the people of Liverpool's sense of injustice than I do with the other examples mentioned and I'd find it hard to consider myself a Liverpool fan if I was indifferent to this issue.

+1 to be honest, i agree with everything in here.

I don't buy the sun as imo i think they are a horrible newspaper. Same reason i try not to support nestle or cocacola.

On the what makes a true fan. To me, and again imo it's the same for music, any other sport etc, it's passion. Passion that makes you connect with the team you support.

Are You Passionate?

Dub13

shane86 wrote: »

It is euphoric seeing the Pool pull off another piece of magic to cling on in Europe, but does it compare to seeing the Ireland team doing the same in a tournament? Of course not. People from Liverpool probably shed a tear in 2005, but they had good fcuking reason to!

I have little or no time for the Irish team,given the choice I would much rather Liverpool do well.

To understand a situation like this you have to realize the big clubs have different layers of fans,there are millions of fans so its only natural there will be layers.I think lads who go to alot of games are more clued into the history of this and the local feeling.Then you have the lads who support Liverpool from a far and are not as clued in,some of these lads are not even aware of the ban.With the Internet getting more common there are less and less of these lads around.I get regular emails from new mostly young lads on Irishkop saying they were not aware of the ban.

Now there are some people who are aware of everything and still do not agree/abide with it.Thats your own choice and like everything else in life your are entitled to your opinion.I would ask you if you ever go to Liverpool or an away match to respect the ban thereby not rubbing peoples faces in it.There is not much else you can say to this group they know the facts,the history and the feeling to wards that rag by the vast majority of people involved with the club yet they still maintain there position.

If anybody wants further reading on this your should read the thread Don't Buy The Sun on Irishkop.There are some very emotional posts on that thread,I will not post them here as some of them we asked for permission to post on IK so it would not be right to post them on other sites.

Helix

monkey9 wrote: »

Ah Jeez, please don't even start that one again. It went completely off-topic. For what it's worth, how you're misguided for having a season ticket to your club, be it in England, i don't know. You're lucky to have one.

i have a season ticket for one in ireland too

Karmafaerie

Helix wrote: »

i have a season ticket for one in ireland too

Have a cookie!

Helix

pretty sure that makes me the ultimate football fan in the world EVER

Karmafaerie

Helix wrote: »

pretty sure that makes me the ultimate football fan in the world EVER

It depends.
Ask DSB, he has the list.;)

DSB

Karmafaerie wrote: »

It depends.
Ask DSB, he has the list.;)

I thought you wanted the thread to go away from that topic? I obliged, and now you're bringing it back up?

GuanYin

next off topic post gets a staight red card infraction.

IrishMike

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Jus to get back to an earlier point IrishMike, the figures you quoted are wrong.
The Sun did have a daily readership of over 200,000 in Liverpool, with the News of the World selling 300,000 on the Sunday.
This dropped to 13,000 for the Sun, and less than 20,000 for the NOTW.

The Sun was the most read paper in Liverpool, and if not for the boycott, would have a daily readership of over 300,000 now, going by the increases in readership in the rest of the country.

The average readership of the sun now is over 7,500,000 daily, not the 222,000 that was quoted in your figures.
I really don't know where those figures you had came from but they are more that 35 times wrong!;)

The suns sells around 3m papers a day and is actually falling
Its readership is over 8m a day
You are not posting the same figures that i am.
Im posting sales figures which are accurate, readership figures are estimates.
I also never said that the average readership of the sun is 222,000 reread what i wrote.

As for the 2,000 copies bought in Istanbull.
Istanbull is an international city.
The greatest European Final in decades had just been played there.
The whole city was in a carnival athmosphere.
Hundreds of Americans, English, Irish, Australian, etc visitors could have bought the paper becasue of the final.
I'm sure some of them were Liverpool fans.
I'm also sure that most of them weren't however.

Are you having a laugh?
Do you think the Sun normally sells 2k papers in Istanbul?
It doesnt matter where the fans are from 1900 of the 2000 papers would have
been bought by Liverpool fans. Thats not that crazy an assumption in fairness.

Mr Alan

IrishMike wrote: »

The suns sells around 3m papers a day and is actually falling
Its readership is over 8m a day
You are not posting the same figures that i am.
Im posting sales figures which are accurate, readership figures are estimates.
I also never said that the average readership of the sun is 222,000 reread what i wrote.

links to your figures please Mike.

Do you think the Sun normally sells 2k papers in Istanbul?
It doesnt matter where the fans are from 1900 of the 2000 papers would have been bought by Liverpool fans. Thats not that crazy an assumption in fairness.

I would imagine Turkey being a tourist destination, the final being in the summer, istanbul being the capital city, that there was a huge amount of tourists there who were nothing to do with the match.

you are wildly speculating that the s*n would never in a million years sell 2000 copies (which is **** all), do you have any reason to think this?

i would imagine most capital cities in europe that are tourist destinations would sell a lot of english papers everyday. i know from my own personal experience of buying them while abroad.

IrishMike

Mr Alan wrote: »

links to your figures please Mike.

http://www.nmauk.co.uk/nma/do/live/factsAndFigures?newspaperID=17
There you go.

I would imagine Turkey being a tourist destination, the final being in the summer, istanbul being the capital city, that there was a huge amount of tourists there who were nothing to do with the match.

you are wildly speculating that the s*n would never in a million years sell 2000 copies (which is **** all), do you have any reason to think this?

i would imagine most capital cities in europe that are tourist destinations would sell a lot of english papers everyday. i know from my own personal experience of buying them while abroad.

I can not back this up so i will just let it go

You have not responded to any point in any post i have made Al?
Its not a debate if there is only one side to the conversation

Mr. Presentable

OK, so I have read the OP twice and still don't get the point. Are you trying to reinforce a boycott of the Sun? If you are, then really I doubt you are preaching to anyone who buys it (or will admit to it). In fact I'd say few enough Irish buy the paper, and it wouldn't have much to do with the Hillsborough tragedy and how the Sun reported it.

Or is it to remind us of what happened? Again I doubt any here need reminding. I will remember the images I watched on TV, as with Bradford, Heysel and Ibrox, for the rest of my life, with sadness and dismay, that people out for a couple of hours of simple pleasure should die needlessly.

sitout

As a staunch evertonian as a principle i point blank refuse to buy the sun. They should have issued an apology years ago and are hoping that the passage of time will ease the pain and sorrow they have caused yet it only seems to have intensified it. The amount of goodwill they would generate by issuing a front page apology would not only increase their circulation but it give the paper a much needed image transplant. Now all i have left to say is Everton for the cup!

elshambo

I dont read the rag mostly because of the liverpool thing
but also because I remember a bombing happening in the north and being reported in the "Irish Sun" in the mid 80's as a tragedy, minority of scumbags etc etc
next day i was in England and my English father picked up the "English Sun"
and showed me the headline which went along the lines of "murdering Irish Bast&rds, I read the story inside and it was ALL lies

That "Paper" has been so anti Irish over the years, one of the reasons the English hated the Irish during the 80's 90's was the lies this rag was printing

I dont know how any Liverpool fan or Irish person could buy it
The Scum by name The Scum by nature!

ps Sligo Rovers dont talk to them either

gixerfixer

elshambo wrote: »

I dont read the rag mostly because of the liverpool thing
but also because I remember a bombing happening in the north and being reported in the "Irish Sun" in the mid 80's as a tragedy, minority of scumbags etc etc
next day i was in England and my English father picked up the "English Sun"
and showed me the headline which went along the lines of "murdering Irish Bast&rds, I read the story inside and it was ALL lies

That "Paper" has been so anti Irish over the years, one of the reasons the English hated the Irish during the 80's 90's was the lies this rag was printing

I dont know how any Liverpool fan or Irish person could buy it
The Scum by name The Scum by nature!

ps Sligo Rovers dont talk to them either

Agreed. They do to the Arabs now what they used to do to the Irish in the 80's.....put us all in a little box and get the the general public to believe we are all murderers etc..... That said ive been on a plane or a ferry many a time with lads sitting there reading the s*n whilst wearing a Liverpool jersey. These people make me sick and ive gotten into a fair few arguements down the years trying to explain the history behind the boycott to these clowns. As above. Scum by name scum by nature

LeixlipRed

I think the main reason one shouldn't buy The Sun or tabloids in general is because it's a paper written by people with low IQs for people with low IQs.

Handsome Bob

I do not buy The Sun, but there are members of the household that do buy it so I read the sports to see what they have to say and it is utter garbage. For instance, the reporter who reviewed the Pool/ Boro game last week did not so much write about the game but just used the space to personally attack Benitez. Absolute rubbish and a tabloid that obviously still holds a grudge with Liverpool just as much as us fans hold a grudge with their gutter journalism.

Blackjack

spockety wrote: »

I assume _everybody_ thinks there _should_ be standards in journalism.. but the number of people who realise that the Sun falls below the required standard is obviously not high enough.

This pretty much sums it up for me. The Sun is a ****e newspaper that prints ****e. The fact that people choose to purchase this rag in the first instance is something that I find to be very very odd.

Dub13

You would be surprised at the amount of clueless Irish Liverpool fans there are,I was on the boat to Holyhead last week for the Boro game and a good few lads in Liverpool tops were reading it.

Dave!

I hope you showed them the error of their ways!

Dub13

Dave! wrote: »

I hope you showed them the error of their ways!

Of course,non of them were traveling with us we give out and itinerary and on that it gives a brief history of the rag and LFC.But 99% of lads traveling with us are only well aware of this issue.

There is no excuse for ignorance from these lads,I bought a retro top on ebay a month ago it came from Thailand and the lad put a Don't buy the sun leaflet in the package.I was very impressed.