Is top four no longer the target?

seanson

So Ramos refuses to rule out the sale of Berbatov and Keane. “For the moment they are with us but whatever happens our plan is to have a good squad with a potential that helps us to do better than last year.” Sounds like a manager that is happy to have his best players sold at a good price and lower the expectations. With these two players combining to score a realistic 50 goals next season, and the defense sorted, I see no reason why Ramos could not get 5th place or better. However, without our two best players and our rivals stronger because we sold them our best players, it's hard to see how we could expect to achieve top four. Keane is well capable of combining well with Torres into a prolific partnership and guarantee Liverpool a top 4 place. That doesn't leave much room for Spurs. Perhaps that is the idea. Take the cash and run. Blame the lack of success on how good Liverpool and the other top four have been. Build for the future with unproven players on the cheap. Top four no londer seems to be the target. It's buy them low and sell them high. Get some cash in for the new stadium.:(

therecklessone

Bit pessimistic mate, the men running the club have given us our first pot since 1999, and three years of European qualification. They've not been afraid to spend either, £40m+ last summer, another £15m+ during the last window and £30m+ to date on Modric/dos Santos/Gomes/Bostock.

Every player at the club has a price, we'd be stupid not to have a valuation on them all...the thing is, unless it suits the club to sell there will be no sale. Berbatov wasn't sold last summer, or during the last window despite all the speculation (and there were discussions with other clubs re. his signature).

Both the moody Bulgarian and Keane are wanted by top 4 sides, and I can't blame either player for wanting CL football. If we pocketed £50m by selling the two is would go a long way towards strengthening the first team across the board. We still need to look at CB cover for King and possibly a defensive midfielder.

It may also be the case (and I suspect this very strongly) that Ramos favours playing one up front with a number of supporting midfielders (dos Santos, Capel, Bentley) and that he does not see Keane as the player to play the role of frontman in that system.

Finally, have faith!

COYS.

tippspur

seanson wrote: »

So Ramos refuses to rule out the sale of Berbatov and Keane. “For the moment they are with us but whatever happens our plan is to have a good squad with a potential that helps us to do better than last year.” Sounds like a manager that is happy to have his best players sold at a good price and lower the expectations. With these two players combining to score a realistic 50 goals next season, and the defense sorted, I see no reason why Ramos could not get 5th place or better. However, without our two best players and our rivals stronger because we sold them our best players, it's hard to see how we could expect to achieve top four. Keane is well capable of combining well with Torres into a prolific partnership and guarantee Liverpool a top 4 place. That doesn't leave much room for Spurs. Perhaps that is the idea. Take the cash and run. Blame the lack of success on how good Liverpool and the other top four have been. Build for the future with unproven players on the cheap. Top four no londer seems to be the target. It's buy them low and sell them high. Get some cash in for the new stadium.:(

I agree with what your saying in that post, it would be a
backward step.

hotspur147

this seasons target is euro qualification CL or uefa.i'm sure ramos and the board would like us to break into the top 4 but i can't see it happening this season reguardless of keane & berbatov staying or going.personally anywhere from 7th upwards would do me fine

seanson

therecklessone wrote: »

Bit pessimistic mate, the men running the club have given us our first pot since 1999, and three years of European qualification. They've not been afraid to spend either, £40m+ last summer, another £15m+ during the last window and £30m+ to date on Modric/dos Santos/Gomes/Bostock.

Every player at the club has a price, we'd be stupid not to have a valuation on them all...the thing is, unless it suits the club to sell there will be no sale. Berbatov wasn't sold last summer, or during the last window despite all the speculation (and there were discussions with other clubs re. his signature).

Both the moody Bulgarian and Keane are wanted by top 4 sides, and I can't blame either player for wanting CL football. If we pocketed £50m by selling the two is would go a long way towards strengthening the first team across the board. We still need to look at CB cover for King and possibly a defensive midfielder.

It may also be the case (and I suspect this very strongly) that Ramos favours playing one up front with a number of supporting midfielders (dos Santos, Capel, Bentley) and that he does not see Keane as the player to play the role of frontman in that system.

Finally, have faith!

COYS.

I know what your sayng but hte top four want Berbatov and Keane because they believe they are top four players and the stats backup that belief. If they do go then we will have lost three 20 goal per season players (Defoe, Keane, and Berbatov) in circa 6 months. Those type of players aren't easy to find and even harder to sign. Defoe was a great tag team with Keane. Useless together but as a straight swap they were a perfect combination. If Keane gets injured, is sold, or just is tired at the end of a game, we no longer have a replacement that fits straight in. Spurs have had the best set of three strikers for the past 4 years. Other clubs have had to rely on their midfield for goals. Spurs have had the luxury of a very high scoring strikerforce (Defoe, Mido, and Kanoute all did their bit). I think we may have seen the last of that golden strikers era.

therecklessone

seanson wrote: »

If they do go then we will have lost three 20 goal per season players (Defoe, Keane, and Berbatov) in circa 6 months.

None of whom have ever delivered 20 league goals in one season as a Tottenham player? Hugely relevant to the thread, no?

Keane scores at a rate of 2 in every 5, that will yield us just over 15 goals per season.

Berbatov scores just under 2 in every 5.

Defoe delivered 3 in every 10.

ziedth

seanson wrote: »

I know what your sayng but hte top four want Berbatov and Keane because they believe they are top four players and the stats backup that belief. If they do go then we will have lost three 20 goal per season players (Defoe, Keane, and Berbatov) in circa 6 months. Those type of players aren't easy to find and even harder to sign. Defoe was a great tag team with Keane. Useless together but as a straight swap they were a perfect combination. If Keane gets injured, is sold, or just is tired at the end of a game, we no longer have a replacement that fits straight in. Spurs have had the best set of three strikers for the past 4 years. Other clubs have had to rely on their midfield for goals. Spurs have had the luxury of a very high scoring strikerforce (Defoe, Mido, and Kanoute all did their bit). I think we may have seen the last of that golden strikers era.

Very good point, without a High Scoring Midfielder that the top 4 teams have we should have tried a little harder to at least keep one of the 2.

John W

therecklessone wrote: »

None of whom have ever delivered 20 league goals in one season as a Tottenham player? Hugely relevant to the thread, no?

Keane scores at a rate of 2 in every 5, that will yield us just over 15 goals per season.

Berbatov scores just under 2 in every 5.

Defoe delivered 3 in every 10.

Good stats and I agree!

I think Ramos is building a team with a one up front mentality, and I think he wants that one up front to be bagging in at least 20 "league" goals a season - imagine if we were to let Keane and Berbs go and get a Torres or even a Santa Cruz- they could score 25 goals this season as a lone front man - add to that goals from the midfield from dos Santos, Modric, maybe Bentley, more goals from JJ, Hudd, Bale etc.

I think this is the plan - and i don't think the board or Ramos have settled for anything less that us - they want top 4 as much as we do!!

Mr Alan

someone better inform Rafa Benitez and SAF that they are about two sign to duds :rolleyes:

the way yous are going on here you'd swear thats wat they were.

John W

Mr Alan wrote: »

someone better inform Rafa Benitez and SAF that they are about two sign to duds :rolleyes:

the way yous are going on here you'd swear thats wat they were.

What we are both saying is 28 goals from TWO top strikers (supposedly worth "50 mil" ) are hardly startling stats in the EPL.

And that, you could (if need be) replace them - not easily, but 50mil would go a long way to replacing one at least, and if Ramos was going to play only one up front (which it looks very much like). If we spent 30mil on another striker that would still leave us with 20 mil for a good CB and DMF. And we would still have the likes of Bent, Pekhart in reserve.

It is all about business, and IMO this would be good business.

therecklessone

Mr Alan wrote: »

someone better inform Rafa Benitez and SAF that they are about two sign to duds :rolleyes:

the way yous are going on here you'd swear thats wat they were.

Don't see anybody saying anything of the sort Al, think you need to read it all again.

When somebody mentions a top 4 challenge and strikers who can get you 20 goals, isn't it relevant to point out that neither Berbatov nor Keane have scored 20 league goals in a season for Spurs?

It's like saying replacing Robinson with Gomes is a gamble because we need a keeper who can keep a clean sheet or two...;)

yiddo

therecklessone wrote: »

When somebody mentions a top 4 challenge and strikers who can get you 20 goals, isn't it relevant to point out that neither Berbatov nor Keane have scored 20 league goals in a season for Spurs?

In fairness the thing with keane and berbs is that they've scored goals with virtually no midfield creativity behind them. They are in fact our 2 most creative players which is a damming fact about our midfield.
I'll be disappointed that now we seem to have addressed our midfield creativity problems with the signings of Modric and Dos Santos that we won't see how many goals they'll get with a bit of support.
The midfield has been our biggest problem for years. we were getting on top of things when Carrick was there and have never replaced him.