CO2 based tax for pre 08 cars ?

josip

If owners of pre-2008 low emission cars were to only pay the emmissions-based motor tax amount for their class of car at the next renewal date rather than the engine capacity based-amount, does anyone think that the department would handle their payment sympathetically and still issue a tax disc?

The_Conductor

josip wrote: »

If owners of pre-2008 low emission cars were to only pay the emmissions-based motor tax amount for their class of car at the next renewal date rather than the engine capacity based-amount, does anyone think that the department would handle their payment sympathetically and still issue a tax disc?

Eh, no..... ?

cliffo27

josip wrote: »

If owners of pre-2008 low emission cars were to only pay the emmissions-based motor tax amount for their class of car at the next renewal date rather than the engine capacity based-amount, does anyone think that the department would handle their payment sympathetically and still issue a tax disc?

not a chance!

Esel

I laughed. Sympathetically?

josip

If sufficient numbers of pre-08 owners when renewing their motor tax were to only initally pay the emmissions-based motor tax amount for their class of car rather than the engine capacity based-amount, would it come to the notice of the minister? Would he then feel incentivised to apply the new system to years before 2008?

There are a lot of owners in this category, theoretically up to half of the people who bought new cars in any year before 2008 (eg. 90,000 in 2007 according to the CSO). You also have at least a 1 month window for "negotiations" with the department following expiry. AFAIR it's also freepost, so the negotiations are a cheaper and much more effective way to register any dissatisfaction than writing to the minister.

peasant

new thread created (split off from the big VRT sticky)

RobAMerc

josip wrote: »

If sufficient numbers of pre-08 owners when renewing their motor tax were to only initally pay the emmissions-based motor tax amount for their class of car rather than the engine capacity based-amount, would it come to the notice of the minister? Would he then feel incentivised to apply the new system to years before 2008?

There are a lot of owners in this category, theoretically up to half of the people who bought new cars in any year before 2008 (eg. 90,000 in 2007 according to the CSO). You also have at least a 1 month window for "negotiations" with the department following expiry. AFAIR it's also freepost, so the negotiations are a cheaper and much more effective way to register any dissatisfaction than writing to the minister.

I have a better plan...
If everybody decided to not pay road tax at all then they'd get rid of that too !!!

What about the people who's car tax would go up because of the emissions based system?

Nam_Man

RobAMerc wrote: »

I have a better plan...
If everybody decided to not pay road tax at all then they'd get rid of that too !!!

What about the people who's car tax would go up because of the emissions based system?

Well this is the next step to get us too cough up more dosh!!

Old tax band cars getting tested ... And paying for their CO2 band ...

Am fecked ... 2.0L Diesel

mcwhirter

Nam_Man wrote: »

Well this is the next step to get us too cough up more dosh!!

Old tax band cars getting tested ... And paying for their CO2 band ...

Am fecked ... 2.0L Diesel

Agree, if all cars were taxed on their C02 rating then imported cars with pre-injection engines(approx pre 1990) would all be paying 2000 euros/tax.
If they had really thought it through correctly they could have taxed cars on their C02 from the time manufacturers had to design their engines within a c02 limit. I'm not sure of the year this happened.
And the cars which didn't have this restriction, left to pay tax on engine size.
I don't reall think John Gormley is as GREEN as he portrays.

billbond4

I wrote to the Minister and asked if pre 08 cars could have an "opt-in" to be taxed on CO2 emissions and he said that the local councils would loose too much money.
So thats your answer

daveharnett

Slightly OT but here goes:
Is there a scenario where the owner of a low emissions 2006/2007 car would stand to gain by
1: Swapping their car with the owner of an identical NI registered car (importing a used car to the UK is free, right?).
2: Registering it in ireland (and paying VRT)
3: Making a saving over the lifetime of the car because of reduced tax.

Is this economically/legally possible? I know you can't get into the new tax system by re-registering a car allready registered here, but I think the above would work?

Cionád

daveharnett wrote: »

Slightly OT but here goes:
Is there a scenario where the owner of a low emissions 2006/2007 car would stand to gain by
1: Swapping their car with the owner of an identical NI registered car (importing a used car to the UK is free, right?).
2: Registering it in ireland (and paying VRT)
3: Making a saving over the lifetime of the car because of reduced tax.

Is this economically/legally possible? I know you can't get into the new tax system by re-registering a car allready registered here, but I think the above would work?

The motor tax system only applies to 2008 cars onwards, a 2007 import is still engine sized based for motor tax (but co2 based for VRT).

daveharnett

Cionád wrote: »

The motor tax system only applies to 2008 cars onwards, a 2007 import is still engine sized based for motor tax (but co2 based for VRT).

Well, that's a no then.
Ah, well.

L1011

My tax would be €125 lower if the new rates were backdated (I can prove my CO2 figures - the same car is still on sale!) and I know of a car where the difference would be €440 (Fiat Bravo 1.9 diesel). It would cost the state too much money, so its not going to happen. Annoyingly.

Cionád

daveharnett wrote: »

Well, that's a no then.
Ah, well.

Aye, I was considering the same maneuver when they first announced the new system, was bitterly disappointed when they changed it!

josip

MYOB wrote: »

It would cost the state too much money

It only costs the state if they allow people to choose on which basis they want to pay for their motor tax. It's revenue neutral if they apply the current 2008 basis to all cars bought in an earlier year. High emissions cars would pay more than currently, but their environmental impact has been subsidised by low emissions cars for a number of years already. It would only be reverting to a fair system of taxation.

MYOB wrote: »

so its not going to happen

If all pre-08 low emissions owners accept it meekly it won't happen. We'll be like lambs to the slaughter especially now that our cars have been devalued by the measure.

MYOB wrote: »

Annoyingly.

In my limited experience the most effective way of getting something changed is to be as annoying and irritating as legally possible to the person responsible for running the system.

For the record, I drive a Feb 05 Octavia 1.9 TDI whose CO2 emissions the minister's secretary has told me are not in the VRT database since they only started recording it in May 05. Strange then that my registration cert states the C02 emissions as 140 . So yes, my annual tax would go from €590 to €150 which is why I'll be as annoying as possible about this.

peasant

josip wrote: »

So yes, my annual tax would go from €590 to €150 which is why I'll be as annoying as possible about this.

You will equally annoyingly opposed by those who bought a car with the old tax factured into their budget and would see it go up if the change was introduced.

(me, for example ...and I have the stronger argument: €420 vs € 2000)

Im changing cars, had a 10yr old diesel paying nearly 600euros for the 2litre engine

gonna import a 7 yr old 2.2litre diesel car from the UK soon. Gonna pay less annual road tax now 430 euros.


the new changes are good bein co2 based but favour those with enough money to change cars

now im changin vehicles, my business is leaving the country, how many people are doing the same as me leavin cars on forecourts around the country ?

The_Conductor

blindjustice- you will still be paying annual road tax based on the engine size on your 2.2 litre 7 year old import (the VRT will however be based on the CO2 emissions rate).

I.e. you are now paying EUR590 annual roadtax at present- you will be paying EUR791 on the 2.2 litre one you are proposing to get.

The CO2 based annual roadtax is only for vehicles first registered in 2008.......

L1011

josip wrote: »

In my limited experience the most effective way of getting something changed is to be as annoying and irritating as legally possible to the person responsible for running the system.

Oh, I'm being annoying and irritating to Gormley (or more accurately, some poor private secretary...) about it as possible

Nonoperational

No chance josip. It would create a totally unfair system where petrol cars are treated unfailry by a law passed after the purchasing decision. It'll never happen and indeed it shouldn't.

colm_mcm

josip wrote: »

If owners of pre-2008 low emission cars were to only pay the emmissions-based motor tax amount for their class of car at the next renewal date rather than the engine capacity based-amount, does anyone think that the department would handle their payment sympathetically and still issue a tax disc?

Imagine the scenario down your local friendly motor tax office:

Assistant: That'll be €861 please.

Me: How does €290 grab you, thats what an 08 version of my car would cost

Assistant: Oh right, here's your disc, good thinking. I have complete control over how much I charge for a tax disc, I wish the whole process was computerised.

Me: Now to reduce my income tax....

L1011

gpf101 wrote: »

No chance josip. It would create a totally unfair system where petrol cars are treated unfailry by a law passed after the purchasing decision. It'll never happen and indeed it shouldn't.

I drive a Petrol, on which the tax would have reduced heavily if I had an 08 model (its still sold).

Did you mean to write "large petrol cars"?

mickdw

How long before we see a change in the bands to allow the costs to rise alittle. I cant help thinking that the government have got this alittle wrong because alot of the manufacturers seem to have very quickly offered cars with better co2 figures than when the system was released.

Audi seem to have improved greatly. BMW great for some time.

audi TT 170 bhp quatro tdi = €150 road tax and 16% VRT
All audi models improving I think

BMW 520d 150 euro tax also,
So its seems you can buy a car of any size from small to executive and still get into the second lowest band.
I can see the lower band soon being set at over €200

E92

One of the ironies of the CO2 based taxation policy is that some very large cars, like the 520d are in the same CO2 and hence road tax bracket as a 1.0 Yaris. Indeed a 320d pollutes the grand total of just 1 g/km more than the Yaris 1.0. Hell even something sporty like the Audi TT TDI is in the same VRT band, and that has 4 wheel drive:eek:!

If they're going to put up the road tax by a large amount then the arse will fall out of the supermini segment and nobody will buy them, not something I can see the Government being too keen on.

On the other hand the days of BMW 5 series being €150 to tax can't last forever, and I'd say those days will be gone by budget 2010 if not budget 2009.

smccarrick

smccarrick wrote: »

blindjustice- you will still be paying annual road tax based on the engine size on your 2.2 litre 7 year old import (the VRT will however be based on the CO2 emissions rate).

I.e. you are now paying EUR590 annual roadtax at present- you will be paying EUR791 on the 2.2 litre one you are proposing to get.

The CO2 based annual roadtax is only for vehicles first registered in 2008.......

yep there goes my idea!! Still thinkin of importing the car though, still cheaper might just stick to a 2.0 now though

The following is a statement from Minister Gormley regarding the new motor tax system. Please use our motor tax calculator above to calculate your motor tax.

"Minister Gormley stated that all new cars registered from 1 July 2008 will have their motor tax rate based on the CO2 emissions level. The new CO2 based system will not apply to the import of pre 2008 cars. New cars registered between 1 January 2008 and 30 June 2008 will initially have their motor tax charged on the basis of the existing engine size (c.c.) system. However, a low CO2 emitting new car registered between 1 January 2008 and 30 June 2008 will have its motor tax switched to the lower CO2 based motor tax rate on first renewal of motor tax post 1 July 2008, when the new CO2 based system commences. New cars which are registered in the first 6 months of 2008 whose tax would be more under the new CO2 based system will continue to pay motortax on the basis of engine size. "

Couldnt make it clearer that he is tilting taxes in favour of people with more money. Sounds fair doesnt it

josip

Deleted User wrote: »

yep there goes my idea!! Still thinkin of importing the car though, still cheaper might just stick to a 2.0 now though

Nothing for it blindjustice but to mobilise the diesel masses of Ireland. I'll target the <2.0l owners and you the >2.0l?

The minister's sec, Eddie K, doesn't rule out future changes to the motor tax system.

"It will take some time for the full effects of the changes to VRT and
motor tax to be known. In this respect the Government will continue to
monitor their effects and to make adjustments to them over the coming
years if necessary."

The current government has so little confidence I reckon it'd only take 100 submissions or thereabouts for them to change their position.

I already wrote to the minister more than a month ago!
more people need to write!!!

email even!!

minister@environ.ie

peasant

josip wrote: »

Nothing for it blindjustice but to mobilise the diesel masses of Ireland. I'll target the <2.0l owners and you the >2.0l?

The minister's sec, Eddie K, doesn't rule out future changes to the motor tax system.

"It will take some time for the full effects of the changes to VRT and
motor tax to be known. In this respect the Government will continue to
monitor their effects and to make adjustments to them over the coming
years if necessary."

The current government has so little confidence I reckon it'd only take 100 submissions or thereabouts for them to change their position.

That, I'm afraid, is probably wishful thinking on your part.

The governement have realised that they will have a lot less VRT and motor tax in their koffers at exactly the wrong time (the economic downturn that nobody saw coming, apparently :rolleyes:)

Your quote from Eddie K (whoever he is) is governement speak for " We made a balls of it ...we're loosing money ...help ...we need to claw it back again"

There will be NO further tax reductions in motoring for anyone ...I'd be willing to take bets on that.

Nonoperational

MYOB wrote: »

I drive a Petrol, on which the tax would have reduced heavily if I had an 08 model (its still sold).

Did you mean to write "large petrol cars"?

Am no I didn't. I drive a 1.6 which is costing me 490 a year tax. If it was co2 based it'd cost me 1000 euro a year. CO2 is down as 195...

ninty9er

gpf101 wrote: »

Am no I didn't. I drive a 1.6 which is costing me 490 a year tax. If it was co2 based it'd cost me 1000 euro a year. CO2 is down as 195...

€428, but anywho, Mine would be €600, but there isn't a CO2 rating on my VLC